Classic Christianity, Bob George, Eternal Salvation, etc....
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Classic Christianity, Bob George, Eternal Salvation, et... - 8/29/2008 10:59:13 AM
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Holiday
Posts: 36
Joined: 5/15/2005
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Hello, everyone.
I have been a long time listener of Bob George's radio show "People to People", as well as an occaisonal reader of his different books.
Mr. George has some opposition out there on the internet, in the form of commentators accusing him of everything from poor biblical discernment to outright heretical teachings.
One thing that I personally struggle with, and have struggled with since I was saved, is the question: "will I ever be good enough for God?" - or - "if I don't do so and so thing, God will cast me away", etc....
I struggled with thoughts like these a great deal, but since I encountered Bob's show and teachings, I have pretty much set that thinking aside and have been learning to accept the gift of grace and the fact that Jesus did what we as humans could not do; afterall, if we could do it then Jesus didn't need to come.
The point of struggle now is that so many have been critical of Mr. George's teachings, that I now question if I should take any comfort in them at all. But the minute I step away from teachings of grace and trusting Christ alone for salvation, I am back under the same mindset of walking around in fear of God, trying to live a holy perfect life and failing all the time.
Some call Mr. George a cop out, saying that there is power in God to live holy and set apart, Mr. George seems to think that we aren't so much to live "holy" i.e. trying to live to a set standard as the standards of "holiness" are different from church to church, but to live a life of thankfulness that Jesus did what we couldn't do.
Can anyone weigh in on this?
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RE: Classic Christianity, Bob George, Eternal Salvation... - 8/29/2008 1:25:18 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1075
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Holiday
Can anyone weigh in on this?
Never believe anything anyone tells you, go into the Word for yourself and check out what they are saying against what God says. I believe this is Mr. George's own advice to his listeners and readers, and I agree wholeheartedly with that.
This is good advice for us all, and is the only way to truly know the Truth that will set us free.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Classic Christianity, Bob George, Eternal Salvation... - 8/29/2008 4:22:51 PM
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JimboFletch
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Is this the Bob George you are relying on?
LINK
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RE: Classic Christianity, Bob George, Eternal Salvation... - 8/29/2008 5:09:46 PM
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Holiday
Posts: 36
Joined: 5/15/2005
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Yes, that is the Bob George. However, I do want to say that I think that the article you posted a link to has a somewhat lopsided view of George and the things he teaches.
Instead of defending or attacking Bob George, let me share with you all some of my personal struggles and what I have learned. If something relates to Bob George, I will mention that.
1. Salvation: I have always been taught that you can lose your salvation. From the beginning, I accepted Christ with the idea that I could also be "cast away" and lose my salvation. The first years of my Christian life were filled with terror, bad dreams, etc, BUT....also many peaceful nights, esp. the ones when I went to bed with my little list checked off, i.e. I didn't sin too much today, I listen to Christian radio, read the Bible, was nice to everyone, etc.
2. The fear of losing salvation lead to arrogance: since I was consumed with perfection, I became hostile and fearful of those around me, all the time thinking that they would help me to lose my salvation. For about 2 years, I worked, then came home and hid in my room that I rented. I seldom spoke to the others in the house, unless it was to preach to them that they weren't living the holy life I was and that they should try harder. I had no friends, and was consumed with the thought that, yes, I would lose my salvation.
3. Fear of loss of salvation led to very strange thoughts: I cannot tell about how far it got. I was constantly looking, no scouring my internal mind to root out sin. I became obsessed with the past and sins from years ago. I began making lists of all the people I should apologize to, all the for lack of a better word "pennance" I should do. I could not sleep. I could hardly eat. I was convinced that unless I was absolutley perfect I would be cast away.
4. I started to pick up on the teaching (not just from Bob George, but others as well) that Christ was our salvation, not our works. I was told that I couldn't do anything to add to my salvation. I began reading things along these lines. I could see in the Bible that Christ did something that I couldn't do, i.e. die for the sins of the world, and bear the punishment of sin for all who would recieve Him. I started to look at my life. It seemed to me at the time that I was fine with saying "Sure, I am born again" but at the same time, internally, I was convinced that I still needed to work to earn my salvation, or in some way, to pay God back through actions for what He did for me.
5. Then I started to focus in on some of the teachings of George like the whole 1 John 1:9 thing and the fact that he does not preach a Calvinistic message as I was always used to. I began to question these aspects of George's ministry, as they were not what I was used to. I am still on the fence about these teachings of George, but the one thing that sticks in my mind that Bob George regularly speaks about, is our total reliance on Christ for salvation, and nothing else. If you think about it, it is not a teaching of Bob George's alone; many gospel tracts say the same thing if you take the time to read them: confess Christ was sufficent to bring you eternal life through His death for sin, profess Christ in prayer, and you will be saved. There is nothing you can add to it or take from it. It is settled.
The reason that I bring up Bob George, is because of the fact that he so frequently is hammering that point home, that it is, as one old friend of mine said, "Christ + nothing = salvation" - or as the old hymn goes "nothing in my hand I bring, only to Thy cross I cling" -
I am not totally on board with all of Bob George's teachings, nor do I take everything he says as Gospel. He is just one of many in my life who have brought the issue of wether Christ is enough for salvation or not.
I still struggle with this issue. I cannot come to rest on it. I struggle with sin daily. Many times, discernment from God enables me to say "no" to saying wrongful things, doing things that I know are wrong, etc. Thankfully, God saved me from alcohol and I haven't touched it for about 6 years. Praise Him for that. I still smoke on and off, I drink alot of coffee, but I tell myself, "well, praise God I don't drink". I have shared my faith in Christ with many people, most have turned away from me. I have turned away from others whose company I have not enjoyed. I am not living a holier than thou life. But I live a life that gives praise to the Savior for what He has done, and I want to share that story with others.
But I still am not sure that I am good enough, and that is the reason for the post............
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RE: Classic Christianity, Bob George, Eternal Salvation... - 8/29/2008 5:35:09 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1075
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Holiday
But I still am not sure that I am good enough, and that is the reason for the post............
Bless you, Holiday. Your openness and honesty is a like a fresh spring breeze that brings relief from the pungent and ugly smell of legalism that is so rampant. You are on the right track, do not be swayed by the naysayers who only seek to condemn, and judge and slander.
You struggle with whether you are good enough for God or not. I can assure you that you are not. So you can put that one to rest. None of us is good enough for God.
But still, He sent His Son to die for us...even while we were no good sinners. And even more Jesus offers us His life!
You are complete in Christ. In Him we find rest from our futile efforts to gain His favor. Jesus Christ has made us acceptable by reconciling us to God through the cross, and He now saves us by His life! While we are insufficient, He is always sufficient. Abide in Him.
Jesus Christ died for us, so that He could give His life to us, in order to live His life through us.
Sound familiar? 
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Classic Christianity, Bob George, Eternal Salvation... - 8/29/2008 6:57:29 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1824
Status: offline
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quote:
But I still am not sure that I am good enough, and that is the reason for the post............
Holiday, You're not (good enough). Nor am I. Nope, it's NOT about being good. If it were, Jesus would not have had to die. But while we were yet sinners, He did die for us! That is love. And that is what you have to believe. If you believe in His power to save you, believe in His power to sanctify you. It is His promise to you. In I Thess 5:23-24 Paul prays "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you ENTIRELY; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass." That's a promise you can trust,  LL
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RE: Classic Christianity, Bob George, Eternal Salvation... - 8/29/2008 8:42:01 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6087
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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We're all wretched sinners deserving of God's wrath - no one is ever "good enough". That is an oxymoron in its purest sense when it comes to Christianity.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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