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Definition of a cult - 8/13/2008 2:39:01 PM
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DSmitty
Posts: 52
Joined: 7/2/2008
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This question has come up for me because of a church that I came out of that had a lot of cult-like issues: Fear tactic manipulation, excessive emphasis on authority, control in areas of life where it's not appropriate for the church and/or it's leaders, etc.
Some of the people that I used to go to church with there are very emphatic in their insistance that it is was a cult. In a recent discussion on the subject an old friend of mine threw out some websters dictionary definitions of the word. But here's my conflict about calling it a cult:
In spite of knowing that their practices were unbiblical, controlling and abusive, my understanding of a cult from a theological point of view is that it holds to "damnable" heresies: i.e., heresies of a nature that their followers are not saved. I do not believe that I was unsaved while I was a part of this church... we believed in Jesus who was the Son of God, God incarnate, God manifest in the flesh who died for our sins. We believed that we were made clean by the blood of Jesus, saved by grace through faith... the gift of God, not of works, etc. It wasn't really the doctrine that was so far off, it was the control and the spiritual abuse.
Does this sort of thing, in spite of correct doctrine regarding salvation, still constitute a cult?
_____________________________
Men are God's methods. And while men are looking for better methods, God is looking for better men. -AW Tozer
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[Deleted] - 8/13/2008 3:11:10 PM
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RE: Definition of a cult - 8/14/2008 9:34:50 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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One definition says that a cult is a small religious organization usually headed by a single charismatic leader.
Evangelical Christians usage: A cult as any religious group which accepts most but not all of the key historical Christian doctrines (e.g. the divinity of Jesus, virgin birth, the Trinity, salvation by faith, not works, etc.). Using this definition, Mormons, Unification Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many others would be cults. However, these religious groups generally regard themselves to be The True Christian Church, seeing all other denominations as in error.
Others say that any religious group that does not accept Christian beliefs as a cult, including Mormons, Wicca, certain Christian denominations, and all of the other world-religions.
For others, a cult is a religious group with a commanding leader -- a group that engages in brainwashing and other mind control techniques, who usually believe that the end of the world is imminent. the worst of these are busy in the collection of weapons and ammo in preparation for an end-time war.
I came out of a church I consider a cult. The reasons i consider it a cult are these:
- The rules they added to the Bible and demanded that their people follow
- Brainwashing
- Taught that they were the only ones with the "whole truth"
- Said that all other churches were in error
- Said that we would barely make it through the Pearly gates and most others had no chance
- Told us that if we left the church, we would go to hell, taking our children with us
- The pastors were right at all times, no matter how biblically, ethically, and morally wrong they were
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Definition of a cult - 8/17/2008 8:16:11 AM
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DSmitty
Posts: 52
Joined: 7/2/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
I came out of a church I consider a cult. The reasons i consider it a cult are these:
- The rules they added to the Bible and demanded that their people follow
- Brainwashing
- Taught that they were the only ones with the "whole truth"
- Said that all other churches were in error
- Said that we would barely make it through the Pearly gates and most others had no chance
- Told us that if we left the church, we would go to hell, taking our children with us
- The pastors were right at all times, no matter how biblically, ethically, and morally wrong they were
Many of those elements were present in this particular church, but in many cases it was subtle. For example they would never come right out and say that they were the only ones with the whole truth, but it was definitely implied. Our pastor was critical of anything that took place in Christian circles that he wasn't personally involved in.
His style relied heavily on intimidation. For example he would do a pretty general word of knowledge thing where he would say something like, "There's a man here - you know who you are - and you're living a double life. The anointing is here for you to repent if you come forward now." If someone didn't respond right away he would say, "I know who you are and I could call you out if I have to." Well naturally someone would always get scared and respond.
When my wife and I got married they tried to impose some rules on us that really weren't within the realm of their authority. I have since come to be a strong believer in "jurisdiction". God is the only one who has complete and total authority, and all authority delegated by Him is for a specific purpose and therefore operates within the limits of that purpose. It seems to me that the Biblical pattern is that a pastor's authority deals with church matters and moral issues. When they start telling you that you can't have sauce with your ribs (I'm being hypothetical there, of course), well that doesn't fall within their jurisdiction. I believe in submission to Biblical authority. I believe in fact that it is a very important Christian principle. In our case with our wedding we submitted for the sake of peace, but I knew in my heart that much of what was imposed on us was wrong. Several years later, the wife of one of the pastors involved (not the head pastor) contacted us and apologized profusely for the way that we were treated.
I was at that church for many years, and I was very proud of it because I saw it as "cutting edge". And I still think it was, at least for a few years or so. They had a Bible College (which I graduated from), they were for the most part pretty strong about making sure that your doctrine could really be Biblically substantiated, and the pastor had a dynamic overseas evangelical crusade ministry that reached thousands - maybe hundreds of thousands.
Towards the end, they started saying things that really didn't have any Biblical basis. Things like, "There are things you could get away with doing 15 years ago and still be saved, but now God is saying 'No more' and if you do those same things now, you forfeit your salvation." A pretty hard statement to back up with Scripture. My wife and I actually left there, not because we were having issues with them per se (although a lot of people were leaving for that reason around that time, and we were accused in regard to our motives) but because we began to recognize that God was moving in other parts of the Body of Christ and many members of our church were unaware of it because it was a very in-bred environment and people literally did not believe in getting involved in any Christian activities outside of or apart from the church.
The pastor never said that people who left the church would go to hell, but based on the assertion that we wouldn't all get the same things in heaven (which was controversial, but I admit I still believe that to be true - though I don't think the way that he emphasized it and used it to scare people was appropriate) he would say things like, "they're in a secondary pattern in terms of God's purpose for their lives." He said that the scripture that says that God would wipe the tears from people's eyes was indicative that there would be tears in heaven, and he rather authoritatively opined that the tears were there because people would see what they missed out on by their wrong choices.
In the end he ended up leaving after some real ugliness (much of which happened after my wife and I had left) including former members not being allowed to attend services (the pastor would actually have ushers remove them). I think it was when I heard about that that I really started to face the fact that they had some pretty serious issues.
I still thank God for the foundation that I got there in the early years, and my heart breaks about what happened. I still love my former pastor. He needed a lot of healing and couldn't admit it because of pride. He grew up under a father who would beat him if he didn't make the honor role. Unfortunately, he carried that into the way that he operated the church even early on before things got bad. I've since heard how difficult it was to be a pastor on staff under him because of how performance-oriented he was, and to a really unhealthy extreme. I experienced a little of that as a Bible College student. I barely graduated with a C average, but went on to community college were I maintained a 4.0 GPA, and it was extremely easy by comparison. One man who graduated with a B average went on to a major university and maintained a 4.0 and he said the same thing - that he didn't have to work nearly as hard for his A's at the university as he did to maintain his B average in Bible College!
The real sad thing is how it has affected so many people in the long run. My wife likes to look up people we used to know, mostly via my space. It's sad how many people are not serving the Lord any more, and in many cases, people we deemed the strongest Christians. But I guess that can happen anywhere. For my part, I have forgiven everyone I need to forgive and intend to move forward. But I've had contact with people recently who seem to still be stuck in many ways. And I was recently kind of evaluating how this may effect me still on whatever subconscious level. But I've determined since that I have to leave that to God, and He'll bring it up when and where it's appropriate. And that's pretty much where I'm at with it now.
_____________________________
Men are God's methods. And while men are looking for better methods, God is looking for better men. -AW Tozer
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