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Disenfranchisement - 6/4/2008 3:15:24 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2909
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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That's what I feel today. Maybe it's a good thing for me to experience this. Make no mistake that it's been coming on for a long time. It's not something that I just woke up one morning and felt. But feel it I do.
I'm disgusted with the offerings we have for president (and a lot of other offices as well), and I'm disgusted with what the process has become. I realize we're all imperfect and our representatives are imperfect as well. But today I don't feel that I really have a voice. By, of and for the people just rings hollow. What's really funny about me feeling this way is that for most of my life I've actually believed the system worked -- despite the flawed people involved. But now I'm rethinking that in a way that maybe I should have all along. I'm realizing that there is no question that the Lord is the one who needs to be looked to and not my "superior" judgment  or the judgment of those whose intellectual prowess impresses me. What has that accomplished? What did eight years of Reagan do? No, I don't think he was perfect, but a darn sight better than what we have now. But what did it do? Did it help us avoid what we've come to?
< Message edited by bzirk -- 6/4/2008 3:26:35 PM >
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/4/2008 3:23:42 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3831
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The (American) "system" functions. It's not that great but it beats the alternatives that other countries have most of the time. Government in the US is a secular enterprise. So why do we Christians expect it to cater to our desires (which we don't agree on much of the time)? I prefer to think of it as a work in progress.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/4/2008 3:31:40 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2909
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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Cow,
You're preachin' to the choir, er, former choir, my friend. If you're satisfied with what the system is today, then I can understand your comments. But I'm not satisifed. I can't keep telling myself that it's the best system in the world and meanwhile the system has been undergoing a change that is slowly quieting our voices.
Perhaps my comments in this thread are just the death throes of belief in the system. It's always been about the people running the system, and I chose to overlook that. Thankfully, I don't have to place my faith in the system or the people.
< Message edited by bzirk -- 6/4/2008 3:40:28 PM >
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/4/2008 3:38:45 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1672
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
That's what I feel today. Maybe it's a good thing for me to experience this. Make no mistake that it's been coming on for a long time. It's not something that I just woke up one morning and felt. But feel it I do.
I'm disgusted with the offerings we have for president (and a lot of other offices as well), and I'm disgusted with what the process has become. I realize we're all imperfect and our representatives are imperfect as well. But today I don't feel that I really have a voice. By, of and for the people just rings hollow. What's really funny about me feeling this way is that for most of my life I've actually believed the system worked -- despite the flawed people involved. But now I'm rethinking that in a way that maybe I should have all along. I'm realizing that there is no question that the Lord is the one who needs to be looked to and not my "superior" judgment or the judgment of those whose intellectual prowess impresses me. What has that accomplished? What did eight years of Reagan do? No, I don't think he was perfect, but a darn sight better than what we have now. But what did it do? Did it help us avoid what we've come to?
You sound like I did as a voter when I lived in Chicago. Either vote for my dummy (Blago) or their dummy (Topinka.) Both of them were pretty bad.
That said, I think McCain should be pretty appealing to a traditional 1960's conservative. The only place where he strongly diverges from strict conservatism is his view on the environment.
He's not a member of the Christian Right and he's not a neoconservative, but short of that, he does act like a good Republican. Depending on whether I feel he represents four more years of Bush or a different take on conservatism, this Democrat-leaning voter may even vote for him in November.
Romney and Rudy would have never gotten that chance.
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/4/2008 5:40:30 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1111
Joined: 11/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
That's what I feel today. Maybe it's a good thing for me to experience this. Make no mistake that it's been coming on for a long time. It's not something that I just woke up one morning and felt. But feel it I do.
I'm disgusted with the offerings we have for president (and a lot of other offices as well), and I'm disgusted with what the process has become. I realize we're all imperfect and our representatives are imperfect as well. But today I don't feel that I really have a voice. By, of and for the people just rings hollow. What's really funny about me feeling this way is that for most of my life I've actually believed the system worked -- despite the flawed people involved. But now I'm rethinking that in a way that maybe I should have all along. I'm realizing that there is no question that the Lord is the one who needs to be looked to and not my "superior" judgment or the judgment of those whose intellectual prowess impresses me. What has that accomplished? What did eight years of Reagan do? No, I don't think he was perfect, but a darn sight better than what we have now. But what did it do? Did it help us avoid what we've come to?
You sound like I did as a voter when I lived in Chicago. Either vote for my dummy (Blago) or their dummy (Topinka.) Both of them were pretty bad.
That said, I think McCain should be pretty appealing to a traditional 1960's conservative. The only place where he strongly diverges from strict conservatism is his view on the environment.
He's not a member of the Christian Right and he's not a neoconservative, but short of that, he does act like a good Republican. Depending on whether I feel he represents four more years of Bush or a different take on conservatism, this Democrat-leaning voter may even vote for him in November.
Romney and Rudy would have never gotten that chance.
"The only place where he strongly diverges from strict conservatism is his view on the environment..." and campaign finance laws, and illegal immigration, and taxation...
For years the media has been wailing for a middle of the road candidate. They've finally got one and don't want him.
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/4/2008 6:18:16 PM
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saraha98
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I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary
_____________________________
Open your hearts to the love God instills.....God loves you tenderly. What He give you is not to be kept under lock and key, but to be shared.
Mother Teresa
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/5/2008 12:43:41 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2909
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saraha98
I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary
A great reminder, Sarah. Thank you.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/5/2008 10:16:10 PM
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PolarBear
Posts: 751
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From: Moving to San Antonio!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
quote:
ORIGINAL: saraha98
I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary
A great reminder, Sarah. Thank you.
Right, and that's very much like what I have been saying. The Kingdom of God can keep growing in an Obama presidency, and as it does, social issues like those we care about will work themselves out.
_____________________________
My current ministry dream:
http://victorymuseum.org
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/6/2008 8:52:47 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
quote:
ORIGINAL: saraha98
I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary
A great reminder, Sarah. Thank you.
Right, and that's very much like what I have been saying. The Kingdom of God can keep growing in an Obama presidency, and as it does, social issues like those we care about will work themselves out.
In the Bible, God holds the rulers accountable for leading the nation, whether godly or evil. He eventually had them taken captive by pagan nations for allowing evil to be the norm.
In the US, we the People ARE the rulers. We cannot abbrogate our position.
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/8/2008 9:32:25 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10178
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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I know the feeling, Bzirk. I have never felt like my vote here in NY has counted for anything, all because of liberal NYC.
Part of me does wonder if maybe the church needs a wakeup call like Obama. This could be part of God's way of unifying the church into ONE BODY instead of the body fighting against itself and only staying weak and sick. I know many who have been praying and pushing toward unity in the church. Maybe this is God's way of answering that prayer, who knows??
No one wants persecution or a leader who is anti-God, but God knows better than we do what we need. If Obama gets put in office, it'll be because God put him there for a purpose.
Bottom line...we have to remember where our hope is. And it isn't in the good old US of A.
BTW, speaking as much to myself as to anyone else...the future with Obama as president scares the pants off of me.  And I don't think McCain has a chance. I hope I'm wrong, but even if I'm not...God is still on the throne and no president of this country can dethrone him. 
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/8/2008 11:28:28 PM
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Dragonnie
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From: CA
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I used to think this was a free country, but the election has already been decided for us the people!
And we the people haven't even gotten to vote yet!
What kind of election is that? It's pre-packaged and pre-determined by higher powers creeping around in this country.
_____________________________
Mark of the Beast. How to go to Heaven.
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/9/2008 10:52:41 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2909
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
quote:
ORIGINAL: saraha98
I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary
A great reminder, Sarah. Thank you.
Right, and that's very much like what I have been saying. The Kingdom of God can keep growing in an Obama presidency, and as it does, social issues like those we care about will work themselves out.
In the Bible, God holds the rulers accountable for leading the nation, whether godly or evil. He eventually had them taken captive by pagan nations for allowing evil to be the norm.
In the US, we the People ARE the rulers. We cannot abbrogate our position.
We can allow our position to be abbrogated, and we have done just that with allowing the courts to stray into making law.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/11/2008 9:05:23 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
We can allow our position to be abbrogated, and we have done just that with allowing the courts to stray into making law.
That's a concern I have whenever I consider voting a 3rd party. I know the candidate will lose and so I wonder if by making a statement I am helping swing the balance in the courts through the nominations sure to follow a Democratic President and Democratically controlled Congress. It could be an expensive statement that could cost millions more their chance at life and no end of strangeness for those of us alive.
I once heard an ancient Chinese curse that goes: "May you live in interesting times." I didn't initially understand, but now I believe we are definitely living in interesting times.
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/11/2008 10:17:03 AM
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rlj
Posts: 1853
Joined: 4/14/2005
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Bzirk you said what I have felt (and more importantly thought)for the last few years myself without sounding so bombastic, cynical or contentious like I would (and do). What bothers me most about our way of government is the fact that we have a population of over 300,000,000 and exactly 2 legitimate choices. Something is wrong here when country a tithe of our size can support 3 + parties.
quote:
For years the media has been wailing for a middle of the road candidate. They've finally got one and don't want him.
Exactly.
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/11/2008 11:18:03 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Bzirk you said what I have felt (and more importantly thought)for the last few years myself without sounding so bombastic, cynical or contentious like I would (and do). What bothers me most about our way of government is the fact that we have a population of over 300,000,000 and exactly 2 legitimate choices. Something is wrong here when country a tithe of our size can support 3 + parties.
quote:
For years the media has been wailing for a middle of the road candidate. They've finally got one and don't want him.
Exactly.
We have a multitude of choices. In fact, every registered voter could write-in their own name if they want to. The question is on the effectiveness or the repercussions of hundreds of thousands voting for, say, Uncle Fred in a narrow election.
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/11/2008 12:29:19 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 721
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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I cast my primary election vote for Alan Keyes. McCain had already locked up the necessary votes by the time we (NC) got to vote, so it was only symbolic. At least I have the honest ability to claim that I didn't initially vote for McCain. In November, I'm going to have to hold my nose and vote for McCain as the lesser of the two evils who have a chance of winning. If I did write in "Uncle Fred," I'd just be helping B. Hussein Obama win the White House.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Bzirk you said what I have felt (and more importantly thought)for the last few years myself without sounding so bombastic, cynical or contentious like I would (and do). What bothers me most about our way of government is the fact that we have a population of over 300,000,000 and exactly 2 legitimate choices. Something is wrong here when country a tithe of our size can support 3 + parties.
quote:
For years the media has been wailing for a middle of the road candidate. They've finally got one and don't want him.
Exactly.
We have a multitude of choices. In fact, every registered voter could write-in their own name if they want to. The question is on the effectiveness or the repercussions of hundreds of thousands voting for, say, Uncle Fred in a narrow election.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Disenfranchisement - 6/11/2008 1:17:19 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1853
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
We have a multitude of choices. In fact, every registered voter could write-in their own name if they want to. The question is on the effectiveness or the repercussions of hundreds of thousands voting for, say, Uncle Fred in a narrow election.
That is true. I voted for Peroutka last time and I am stuck between Obama and Baldwin this time. There is a part of me that wants to simply vote third party from now until I die but I do like to know what I am or am not voting for. I'm not an overly big fan of the Constitution Party but I do like it much better then the Republican Party 20 years post Reagan. I'm not a fan of the Liberterian Party either, but I already know I don't like the Republicans or Dems. Sometimes the old adage "better the devil that you know than the devil that you don't" takes over.
The other thing is by voting for Baldwin instead of Obama whenever I get called a "Librul" I can say "Ha! I voted for the most conservative candidate 2 elections in a row!"
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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