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How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/19/2008 6:45:55 AM
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spiritchsr1
Posts: 142
Joined: 9/13/2005
From: Ohio
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My gardens were terrible last year. My soil is mostly clay. I plant the usual garden vegitables, tomatoes, cucumbers radishes, lettuce, pepers.
What should I use to treat the soil with. Is lime any good for this tyle of soil and vegitables?
Spiritchsr1
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/19/2008 1:00:32 PM
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rayofson
Posts: 8297
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I'd recommend the methods in this book.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/19/2008 3:07:09 PM
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ladioffaith
Posts: 2818
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: NE Ohio (L.A. . . Lower Akron)
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Poorly! Yell at it and say, "Bad soil!"
It had to be said!
Mine is the same way but when we used to garden, we just put Miracle Grow on the plants and always planted the established plants and not soil, so they had at least the good soil around the roots.
Fertilizer?
Not everybody has the money or energy for a raised bed garden.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/19/2008 5:49:14 PM
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cindybode
Posts: 1477
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Northwest PA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ladioffaith
Not everybody has the money or energy for a raised bed garden.
I disagree. Raised bed gardening doesn't take any more money or energy than any other kind of garden. In fact it's usually less work. You can build a garden bed right on top of your existing grass or whatever. Although bed frames are nice, they are certainly not necessary. What you do need is access to plant material - grass clippings, leaves, weeds that haven't gone to seed (you certainly don't want to plant more of those things!), egg shells, coffee grounds, fruit or veggie peelings, etc. - and rabbit, goat, horse, or cow manure if you can get it. All you need to do is pile the stuff on the ground and dig it in. If your soil is heavy clay, just dig down as far as you comfortably can and then, if possible, slice your spade down into the clay a bit to make some holes. Keep adding scraps whenever you have them. Before you know it you'll have nice, crumbly soil that won't take much work at all to dig into.
If you have a lot of weeds, grass, etc. in your spot that you need to kill, put 10 layers of newspaper down first, wet it thoroughly, and then pile your stuff on top. Remember that it will settle, so if you're not digging at all you'll need about 12" of compost material on top of the newspaper.
_____________________________
If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/19/2008 6:37:13 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5194
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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Dig some well-rotted manure into the soil - cow manure is excellent, if you have a local source (my dh was out only yesterday looking for some for his vegetable garden!). Otherwise, over here anyway, you can buy sacks of dried poultry manure.
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"I have nothing to add, except to agree with Manda."
(agapetos, July 2008)
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/19/2008 6:43:48 PM
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Auben
Posts: 1639
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From: Where pines tower and cranberries float
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Find out if your city (if you live in one) will deliver compost to your house. Some towns gather leaves and grass and keep them in a central area and then the next year they have compost. My town will deliver compost or wood chips to your driveway (the rest is up to you).
If they won't do that consider composting (grass, leaves, leftover veggie/fruit scraps from the kitchen) and spreading the compost around your garden beds. Its cheaper than buying your own compost (although that isn't so expensive). Or you could contact a garden center in your area to see what they would recommend as options (some have compost or topsoil by the truckload).
Also, manure is wonderful but don't put it right on plants. Compost it first. Otherwise it can burn your vegetables.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/19/2008 8:25:27 PM
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cindybode
Posts: 1477
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From: Northwest PA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
Also, manure is wonderful but don't put it right on plants. Compost it first. Otherwise it can burn your vegetables.
Depends on who it came from. Rabbit, goat, and sheep poop don't need to be composted first. Horse, cow, and poultry do.
_____________________________
If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/19/2008 8:51:16 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5194
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cindybode
Depends on who it came from. Rabbit, goat, and sheep poop don't need to be composted first. Horse, cow, and poultry do.
Unless it's already well-rotted when you collect it. My dh went searching two days this week for stuff that had been there a while and found some lovely stuff that was rotted enough to go straight into the ground. 
(explanatory note: we live near a 10,000 acre National Park called The New Forest, where ponies, cows, donkeys and pigs roam freely - so their poo is up for grabs!)
PS to cindybode - is that gorgeous Anglo-Nubian yours?
_____________________________
"I have nothing to add, except to agree with Manda."
(agapetos, July 2008)
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/19/2008 11:50:01 PM
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creationtalk
Posts: 586
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Work any type of organic material you can find into your soil--grass clippings, leaves, coffee grounds, eggshells, peanut shells, peelings from potatoes and fruit, etc. (and manure if you can get it)--ashes, shredded paper, wood shavings or sawdust... This is good for any type of soil, but necessary for clay soil which is depleted in organic material.
There are books about what nutrients you get from the different types of compost materials. They will also tell you which materials are best for which plants. For example, ashes and pine needles tend to be very acidic. This is good for blueberries, but very bad for many other plants.
If you have part of the garden empty or want to expand the garden you can do what is called "compost in place.": Till the soil, then layer 6" of organic material--a wide variety is best. Water it heavily then cover with heavy black plastic. As more of the garden becomes available, you can expand the area covered until all the garden is covered. If you are in dry country, you may need to peel the plastic back and water the compost again, but usually that is not necessary. In the spring when its time to plant, discard the plastic and till the compost into the soil. This method has a couple of advantages: 1) it cuts down on the work of moving the compost twice (once to a compost pile then to the garden). Plus the heat generated by the decomposing organic material will kill seeds from the soil of your garden cutting down on weeds the next year.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/20/2008 5:42:57 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2144
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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Clay soils are not necessarily nutrient poor. So, you don't need lime either. The only thing lime will do is to neutralize acidic soils. Acidity is not the problem with clay soils. Usually, the problem is drainage.
You could improve drainage when you add organic materials. Keep in mind that if you put organic materials into clay soil, it will eventually degrade and you'll have to repeat it. I don't know how long that will take.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 4/20/2008 5:52:41 PM >
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Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/20/2008 9:34:35 PM
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creationtalk
Posts: 586
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Agree with GC. Ideally, organic material will be added into your garden on a regular (yearly) basis. Also plan to rotate crops and sometimes grow "green manure" crop on parts of the garden. This would be a crop that you plan to till into the soil to add organic material and nutrients
Edit: You may want to have your soil tested to find out what nutrients it needs. This can guide your fertilizer choices.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/22/2008 4:49:39 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2144
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From: Dallas, TX
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Just a side note. There's a Starbuck's in Dallas that gives away free used coffee grounds for your plants. There's a small container at the front door.
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Larry
Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/23/2008 5:08:24 PM
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APZR
Posts: 656
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: GA
Status: online
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Do you have a university extension service in your area? In my area, they have master gardeners and will do soil test for free.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/23/2008 11:50:01 PM
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furrypurrykitty
Posts: 470
Joined: 4/8/2005
From: Home of the Corvette
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I saw a program on Martha Stewart's show one time about earthworms (vermiculture), and they are supposed to be very good for soil because they aerate and fertilize it. I know you can order them, but I don't know from where or how much. You might try searching online for vermiculture and see what comes up.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/24/2008 1:25:28 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2280
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cindybode
quote:
ORIGINAL: ladioffaith
Not everybody has the money or energy for a raised bed garden.
I disagree. Raised bed gardening doesn't take any more money or energy than any other kind of garden. In fact it's usually less work. You can build a garden bed right on top of your existing grass or whatever. Although bed frames are nice, they are certainly not necessary. What you do need is access to plant material - grass clippings, leaves, weeds that haven't gone to seed (you certainly don't want to plant more of those things!), egg shells, coffee grounds, fruit or veggie peelings, etc. - and rabbit, goat, horse, or cow manure if you can get it. All you need to do is pile the stuff on the ground and dig it in. If your soil is heavy clay, just dig down as far as you comfortably can and then, if possible, slice your spade down into the clay a bit to make some holes. Keep adding scraps whenever you have them. Before you know it you'll have nice, crumbly soil that won't take much work at all to dig into.
If you have a lot of weeds, grass, etc. in your spot that you need to kill, put 10 layers of newspaper down first, wet it thoroughly, and then pile your stuff on top. Remember that it will settle, so if you're not digging at all you'll need about 12" of compost material on top of the newspaper.
Does this work if you don't have any fresh manure?
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/24/2008 1:26:59 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2280
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Dig some well-rotted manure into the soil - cow manure is excellent, if you have a local source (my dh was out only yesterday looking for some for his vegetable garden!). Otherwise, over here anyway, you can buy sacks of dried poultry manure.
Oh, I guess this answers my question!
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/25/2008 3:06:58 PM
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cindybode
Posts: 1477
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Northwest PA
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You don't need manure at all, although it's nice to have. Any kitchen waste except fat, meat, or bones is fine. Get a small covered bucket for your counter, throw your scrap in there, and dump it in the garden every day.
I have plenty of red worms in my compost pile and can send some to anyone who wants them.
_____________________________
If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/28/2008 7:16:33 PM
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charity7
Posts: 243
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add some sand and start a compost---in the fall til in some leaves--find someone who wants their barn cleaned out and til that in--good soil does take work but after a few years its worth it!! try to do it organtically
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/28/2008 7:36:49 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 11620
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
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quote:
ORIGINAL: charity7
add some sand and start a compost---in the fall til in some leaves--find someone who wants their barn cleaned out and til that in--good soil does take work but after a few years its worth it!! try to do it organtically
Himself mixes sand with organic material, and his garden is always wonderful. He doesn't use manure, he uses peat.
We do have clay soil, though, and the drainage is a big problem. Not sure if it is good to do in other soil or not.
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RE: How do I treat very poor soil? - 4/28/2008 7:57:56 PM
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agapetos
Posts: 5366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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Hmmm... lots of answers...
I have clay soil (I've just been told) but I managed to grow some stuff in the ground last year ~ and raised beds in other parts of the garden...
I'm wondering if you fed the veggies that you grew? Tomatoes, peppers and cucs all need feeding with appropriate food. It's also good for cucs to have well-rotted manure in the soil.
I've just weeded one of my raised beds. It was much easier than weeding the ground and I'd suggest that if all else fails ~ but you do need to look at what you're feeding your veggies.
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Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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She and her friends give me plenty of stuff to put in my garden beds.
