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How many judgments?
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Total Votes : 9
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(last vote on : 8/13/2008 9:23:39 AM)
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How many judgments? - 7/24/2008 5:56:15 PM
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WildByNature
Posts: 432
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline
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I was always led to believe there would be 3 judgments in the end times:
Sheeps and Goats
Bema Seat
Great White Throne
A recent off-topic study has caused me to question if there will only be 2 or, perhaps, even only 1.
How many do you say there will be and why?
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
<><
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RE: How many judgments? - 7/25/2008 1:05:37 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 284
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
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Shalom, WildByNature.
My point of view is that we are talking about the Millennial Kingdom of the Messiah as haMelek Isra'el (the King of Israel) and then haMelek M'lakiym (the King of Kings).
One of the "jobs" of being king IS to be a judge, and the Messiah's kingdom will be no different. There will be a THOUSAND YEARS AND MORE of judgment! Furthermore, evidence in the OT suggests that His judgment may continue into eternity, as well!
I take it that what you are really asking is about world-impacting judgments. There will be a "sheep and goats" judgment of the world nations that participated in treatment for or against God's people, both national Isra'el and the Gentiles (Goyim) adopted and grafted into the "Olive Tree" of the Messiah's kingdom. Those nations, any nations, who chose to extend a hand of aid to any one of God's people will be allowed to remain in the world that will be the King's Domain.
Nations that actively opposed God and God's people will likewise be opposed by God through His Representative, Yeshua` haMashiach Elohiym (Jesus the Messiah [Anointed] of God). This will happen at the beginning of His reign.
At the end of the first 1000 years of His reign, will come the Resurrection to the Great White Throne judgment and to the Second Death--the Death of Death, if you will. At this time, everyone will be raised who will at that time still have been dead, and they, too, will be judged and sentenced.
However, the Bema Seat (the Rewards Tribunal) of the Messiah (the Christ) will NOT just be for a 7-year period in some ethereal place called "Heaven!" It will happen within the Messiah's Kingdom THROUGHOUT THE MILLENNIUM AND BEYOND RIGHT HERE ON EARTH, albeit the New Earth after the first 1000 years! Do you think for a moment that all that needs to be rewarded or said about the lives of each of His children down through the ages and how God intervened and grew them up could be accomplished in a mere 7 years?! Besides, as I said earlier, it is the JOB of a king to judge matters and to intercede for those who need his help.
We just need to quit thinking 2-dimensionally or dichotomously. It's NOT just "black and white!"
Read the prophecies--even the OT prophecies--and ask yourself FIRST, "Can this prophecy be fulfilled literally, as the prophecies about the Messiah's first coming were fulfilled literally, and HOW?" Don't be so quick to think that the prophecies have to have some "spiritual" or allegorical fulfillment! Very few of the prophecies about the Messiah's first coming were allegorical!
Retrobyter
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RE: How many judgments? - 7/25/2008 12:51:21 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3307
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
Those nations, any nations, who chose to extend a hand of aid to any one of God's people will be allowed to remain in the world that will be the King's Domain.
I think your whole post is the best outline I have seen on this matter.
The above statement in particular might answer some of those who
can't quite grasp where some of the "others" show up during the big M.
Raptured or Hell Fire is the common thought.
I don't think this could have been explained any better in such a short
and direct approach.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: How many judgments? - 7/26/2008 2:58:23 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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There may be no end to God's decisions over matters both in this world and in the world to come. For it is written: an endless line of rulers will come from him. It is written that there are twelve crops on the tree of life in The New Earth Garden of God planted there, which the people who were found worthy to be given the right to eat of, must maintain themselves as well. For this is for the healing of the nations is written. For no eye has seen, and no ear has heard and yet God has revealed to His Holy Apostle of The Paradise to come. Who has known the VERY MIND of God to instruct Him regarding HIS Word? We see, here, that one may not fully comprehend, but God had ordered sickness and things before as the old ordering of things due to the Brooding of HIS Spirit over the darkness of the face of the deep which was the formless and void earth, at that point as written in Genesis..... For it is a Terrifying event to fall into the Hands of The Living God who created all of the universe, indeed! For if lucifer was being Brooded over by God from the beginning, for it is written: he was a murderer from the beginning, then how will a small peoples like us down here on earth ever escape the reality that Is Found in Christ Jesus, Alone. For The Father is in Me and I in The Father is written. For it is written that the stars, which are like the angels in heaven, were created on day five instead. We see that lucifer intends to sweep some of the angels from heaven by using this symbolism for the number five, which stands for Grace, to commemorate the 1/3 of them that he fell, as written. After the first event written by Prophecy of Moses for us when Gd said: 'Let There Be Light'. He was with God in the beginning is written. All things were created by Him and through Him and for Him. For God takes pleasure in His People, especially, and Gd saw 'Creation Is Good' for it is The Works of HIS Hands and Word. For Wisdom was With Him rejoicing in the beginning is written in Solomon. Wisdom was: and the Light immediately was separated from the darkness. Nowhere is it, necessarily, our business at Scripture when the devil was created. And, yet one can tell that the people on earth tend to understand that he had some standing With God, at the beginning, until he was found a murderer intending to kill God and His Creation which is us as well.
However, there will be a time of great distress in the world at The Testimony of Two Witnesses via prophecy ordinance plagues for 3 1/2 years or 42 months or 1260 days; adding 30-75 days for those that are caught up to Meet Christ in the air. Then the Two Witnesses will finish their Testimony and the people on earth will celebrate 'christmas' in giving gifts to each other. Then they will arise from the dead after 3 1/2 days dead in the street. The people will give Glory to God and then the abomination of the false worldly prophet antiMessiah will be set up in The Temple of The God of Heaven. Then there will occur the desolation decrees as written in revelation for us to know, so that we avoid them, for about 1185 days. This will complete the number of the Martyrs that will be found added to those from across all times under seal number 5 as written in revelation Gospel Truth. Do not go into the cities to buy anything said Jesus. When those in Jerusalem see the two dead Witnesses in the streets, they should flee to the mountains and hills as soon as possible in accordance with The Word of Jesus Messiah.
Jesus said from the blood of righteous Abel to Zechariah, that all of the righteous blood would come upon the dark and worldly generation of people who had become altogther corrupt as written in Daniel the Prophet and Revelation. For whoever loves and practices evil will be burned in eternal fire forever.
Then will come the Judgments of The Millennial Reign of Christ, among which will include no rain for those that do not come up to celebrate with His Priests the Feast of The Tabernacles as written in The Prophet of God long ago. For there will be many who will come and take their places in The Kingdom of God is written and they will be given thrones to Judge the Peoples on earth as written in Revelation. Then, at the end of The Millennial period, the Dragon and the false worldly prophet leader will be released to deceive the earth into The Last Armageddon Battle of Judgment in The Valley of God Decisions.
Then, heaven and earth will flee from His Presence and The Most Holy One, The Annointed Messiah will be led into HIS Presence with much cheering and fanfare and terror will fall on those who did not love Him who IS GOD and did not want The Most Holy to be their Ruler. Then Christ will Judge The Living and the dead according to their works, then Christ will call many witnesses to judge the peoples from across all time periods on earth in accordance with what had occurred as recorded in the books of the holy angels of God. For God writes that the Queen of Sheba, African princess, will arise and condemn this people for she believed the words of Solomon. And to this day, it is still rumored that the ark of the covenant of Gd was carried to Africa because of the terrible Judgments that began to fall upon The Roman Empire over destroying The Temple of Gd as prophesied in the Apostles Testimony regarding how Agabus prophesied a famine. Therefore, they sent it to African beyond their Empire's borders. Also, for those that say that Miracles and Signs are nothing, soddom and gammora will counted as less punished than those who witnessed the miracles and did not repent; for they would have done so; but The Elder Abraham was there to ask Him not to destroy the city, if there were 100 faithful. However, The Lord went to find out, himself, and destroyed it instead. Therefore, soddom and gammora would still be city today if He had sent The Gospel to testify to them. How much more will people be held accountable before God when there were given signs and wonders and the Holy Gospel and Christ Jesus, himself, then? They will not be able to take the mark of the false worldly leader prophet to come, if they are Truly Christ's People, for 3 1/2 years or 42 months or 1260 days plus 30-75 days for the abomination that causes the deolation decrees will be issued forth upon the followers of the false worldly antichrist prophet 'power that be' of lucifer's kingdom. I tell you that those who take the number of the name of the false prophet leader will burn, eternally in the fury upstairs in the new heaven before angels forever and ever. For the angels preach the Gospel to all of the earth as written in revelation in accordance with The Word of Jesus Christ: This Gospel will be preached to all of the earth and then the end will come. For God will test the whole peoples on the earth in any manner in which so Desires to do so. Whoever takes the mark of the beast will suffer eternally is announced from the Heavens above received on through Angels through the hand of a mediator as written, was believed on in the world taken Up Into Glory.
Furthermore, those of The Holy Faith of Christ, will be Judged and rewarded in accordance with The Great Works That Christ Began in their lives unto completion. May God Most High Be forever Praised and Honored through The ONE 'I AM 'for The Father Will Glory His Name Again on the earth!
quote:
ORIGINAL: WildByNature
I was always led to believe there would be 3 judgments in the end times:
Sheeps and Goats
Bema Seat
Great White Throne
A recent off-topic study has caused me to question if there will only be 2 or, perhaps, even only 1.
How many do you say there will be and why?
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/26/2008 4:29:56 PM >
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RE: How many judgments? - 7/28/2008 10:33:39 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 284
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
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Shalom, cybrjewls.
Sorry, but I see your ramblings as a long series of nonsequitors. First, WHERE is it written "an endless line of rulers will come from him?"
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
There may be no end to God's decisions over matters both in this world and in the world to come. For it is written: an endless line of rulers will come from him. ...
Then, while I understand the twelve "crops" (MANNER OF FRUITS = KINDS OF FRUITS, not "crops") comes from Revelation 22:2 and "the people who were found worthy to be given the right to eat of" comes from Revelation 2:7, I challenge the last part. We are not to "maintain ourselves" to be worthy. I take it that you gleaned that nugget from Rev. 22:14, but that's not what the verse says.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
It is written that there are twelve crops on the tree of life in The New Earth Garden of God planted there, which the people who were found worthy to be given the right to eat of, must maintain themselves as well. ...
Rev. 22:14 says,
Rev 22:14
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
KJV
Since the writer is Yochanan, the same Yochanan who wrote I John, we should also consider his words in I John:
1 John 3:21-24; 5:1-3
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
.....
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
KJV
And these stem from Mattityahu's Gospel about Yeshua` (which Yochanan also heard):
Matt 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
KJV
What's to "maintain?" Then you said,
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
For this is for the healing of the nations is written. For no eye has seen, and no ear has heard and yet God has revealed to His Holy Apostle of The Paradise to come. Who has known the VERY MIND of God to instruct Him regarding HIS Word? We see, here, that one may not fully comprehend, but God had ordered sickness and things before as the old ordering of things due to the Brooding of HIS Spirit over the darkness of the face of the deep which was the formless and void earth, at that point as written in Genesis..... For it is a Terrifying event to fall into the Hands of The Living God who created all of the universe, indeed! For if lucifer was being Brooded over by God from the beginning, for it is written: he was a murderer from the beginning, then how will a small peoples like us down here on earth ever escape the reality that Is Found in Christ Jesus, Alone. For The Father is in Me and I in The Father is written. For it is written that the stars, which are like the angels in heaven, were created on day five instead. We see that lucifer intends to sweep some of the angels from heaven by using this symbolism for the number five, which stands for Grace, to commemorate the 1/3 of them that he fell, as written. After the first event written by Prophecy of Moses for us when Gd said: 'Let There Be Light'. He was with God in the beginning is written. All things were created by Him and through Him and for Him. For God takes pleasure in His People, especially, and Gd saw 'Creation Is Good' for it is The Works of HIS Hands and Word. For Wisdom was With Him rejoicing in the beginning is written in Solomon. Wisdom was: and the Light immediately was separated from the darkness. Nowhere is it, necessarily, our business at Scripture when the devil was created. And, yet one can tell that the people on earth tend to understand that he had some standing With God, at the beginning, until he was found a murderer intending to kill God and His Creation which is us as well.
WOW!!!!    I feel like I'm watching a young child trying to play Chinese Checkers for the first time without knowing the rules of the game, jumping his piece all over the board without a clue where his marble should go next! 
However, there will be a time of great distress in the world at The Testimony of Two Witnesses via prophecy ordinance plagues for 3 1/2 years or 42 months or 1260 days; adding 30-75 days for those that are caught up to Meet Christ in the air. Then the Two Witnesses will finish their Testimony and the people on earth will celebrate 'christmas' in giving gifts to each other. Then they will arise from the dead after 3 1/2 days dead in the street. The people will give Glory to God and then the abomination of the false worldly prophet antiMessiah will be set up in The Temple of The God of Heaven. Then there will occur the desolation decrees as written in revelation for us to know, so that we avoid them, for about 1185 days. This will complete the number of the Martyrs that will be found added to those from across all times under seal number 5 as written in revelation Gospel Truth. Do not go into the cities to buy anything said Jesus. When those in Jerusalem see the two dead Witnesses in the streets, they should flee to the mountains and hills as soon as possible in accordance with The Word of Jesus Messiah.
Jesus said from the blood of righteous Abel to Zechariah, that all of the righteous blood would come upon the dark and worldly generation of people who had become altogther corrupt as written in Daniel the Prophet and Revelation. For whoever loves and practices evil will be burned in eternal fire forever.
Then will come the Judgments of The Millennial Reign of Christ, among which will include no rain for those that do not come up to celebrate with His Priests the Feast of The Tabernacles as written in The Prophet of God long ago. For there will be many who will come and take their places in The Kingdom of God is written and they will be given thrones to Judge the Peoples on earth as written in Revelation. Then, at the end of The Millennial period, the Dragon and the false worldly prophet leader will be released to deceive the earth into The Last Armageddon Battle of Judgment in The Valley of God Decisions.
Then, heaven and earth will flee from His Presence and The Most Holy One, The Annointed Messiah will be led into HIS Presence with much cheering and fanfare and terror will fall on those who did not love Him who IS GOD and did not want The Most Holy to be their Ruler. Then Christ will Judge The Living and the dead according to their works, then Christ will call many witnesses to judge the peoples from across all time periods on earth in accordance with what had occurred as recorded in the books of the holy angels of God. For God writes that the Queen of Sheba, African princess, will arise and condemn this people for she believed the words of Solomon. And to this day, it is still rumored that the ark of the covenant of Gd was carried to Africa because of the terrible Judgments that began to fall upon The Roman Empire over destroying The Temple of Gd as prophesied in the Apostles Testimony regarding how Agabus prophesied a famine. Therefore, they sent it to African beyond their Empire's borders. Also, for those that say that Miracles and Signs are nothing, soddom and gammora will counted as less punished than those who witnessed the miracles and did not repent; for they would have done so; but The Elder Abraham was there to ask Him not to destroy the city, if there were 100 faithful. However, The Lord went to find out, himself, and destroyed it instead. Therefore, soddom and gammora would still be city today if He had sent The Gospel to testify to them. How much more will people be held accountable before God when there were given signs and wonders and the Holy Gospel and Christ Jesus, himself, then? They will not be able to take the mark of the false worldly leader prophet to come, if they are Truly Christ's People, for 3 1/2 years or 42 months or 1260 days plus 30-75 days for the abomination that causes the deolation decrees will be issued forth upon the followers of the false worldly antichrist prophet 'power that be' of lucifer's kingdom. I tell you that those who take the number of the name of the false prophet leader will burn, eternally in the fury upstairs in the new heaven before angels forever and ever. For the angels preach the Gospel to all of the earth as written in revelation in accordance with The Word of Jesus Christ: This Gospel will be preached to all of the earth and then the end will come. For God will test the whole peoples on the earth in any manner in which so Desires to do so. Whoever takes the mark of the beast will suffer eternally is announced from the Heavens above received on through Angels through the hand of a mediator as written, was believed on in the world taken Up Into Glory.
Furthermore, those of The Holy Faith of Christ, will be Judged and rewarded in accordance with The Great Works That Christ Began in their lives unto completion. May God Most High Be forever Praised and Honored through The ONE 'I AM 'for The Father Will Glory His Name Again on the earth!
WHOA! More of the same! You're bouncing all around the Scriptures and thus causing Scriptures to be taken out of context and irresponsibly being compared to other Scriptures with which they have no direct connection!
Furthermore, you are going off on the idea that Lucifer is haSatan, and that Lucifer was one of the "stars" (as though "stars" = "angels"), etc. etc. etc.!
Keep your theories down to earth and related directily to the Scriptures IN CONTEXT!!!
Retrobyter
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