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Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/7/2008 1:01:11 AM
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cowgurl4christ
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I've been a Dell PC user since I was a kid, and now I'm in college for animation/motion graphics, and I'm becoming accustomed to Macs. I'm ready to buy a new computer...but should I get a Mac or PC?
I've noticed that a good amount of animation & broadcast design companies use Macs. If you own or work for an animation, video 3D, etc studio I'd LOVE to know what type of computer your company uses!
Know this about me:
-I currently own a 17" Inspiron 9300 laptop from Dell (loovvee ittt) but the graphics card is weak (for my needs), thus it's somewhat slow at rendering.
-My video work is in HD & HDV formats & I often render Animation lossless, which means hefty render time.
-I burn a lot of CD/DVDs, so a good burner is a plus
-My current laptop is my radio, my party music player, my movie theatre, my gaming device system occasionally, my planner/organizer, and my storage in addition to the video and creative work I do.
-I use After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Flash, and Mac only programs: Final Cut Pro, Soundtrack Pro, Motion & Abelton Live. (I could learn Premiere instead of using Final Cut Pro if I end up with a PC & I don't use abelton, soundtrack & Motion often).
-A cooling system is crucial, partially because right now, I leave my laptop on overnight sometimes...I knowww shamme shammee...but I like falling asleep to ambient radio stations on iTunes hehe.
-I'm faster on a PC. I can't help but get the feeling Macs are too much about the name brand. They look cool, but they seem to be more about form over function. Are they really better for the kind of stuff I do?
My needs:
-No laptops & nothing over $2000 (I'm a college student still)
-something powerful for HDV & HD video editing & animating (After Effects). I need something that will render my videos (and perhaps 3D models/animations too if I get Maya) at a nice pace.
-Lots of RAM...but what's the minimum I should get?
-Intel Core 2 Duo Processor?....Do I go Duo or Quad?
-HD & HDV capabilities
-no vista. If it's as bad as I'm hearing...
-Specifically what graphics card should I look for? I hear ATI Mobility Radeon is great.
Here's what I'm looking at:
PC:
Dell XPS One (PRODUCT) RED All-In-One Desktop
*Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Processor
*Genuine Windows Vista Ultimate (PRODUCT) RED
*1 Yr In-Home Service, Parts Labor, 24x7 Phone Support
*Complete Care Accidental Damage Protection, 1 year
*Included 3GB DataSafe Online Backup for 1 Yr
*Norton Internet Security™ 2007 Edition 15-months
*Microsoft® Office Home and Student 2007
*2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
*Integrated Video Card...that'll need an upgrade...
*250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
*8-in-1 Media Reader Included
*Internal PCI 802.11 a/b/g/n wireless network card included
*8X Slot load CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW)
*Integrated Audio - 2.0 Speakers
*Hybrid Analog/Digital TV Tuner with Remote Control. A remote for my computerrr? cooooooollll. lol
*Internal Bluetooth 2.0 Included
$1,468.00
**But what's the monitor size? It didn't say.
Another PC I thought was nice:
XPS 420
*Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Processor Q9300 (6MB Cache,2.50GHz,1333FSB)
*4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 4 DIMMs
*500GB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
*Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability
*22 inch E228WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel--I'm assuming it plays HD/HDV
*Radeon ATI HD 2600 XT 256MB
*Windows Vista™ Premium
*Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
*No speakers--got my own
*Dell USB Enhanced Multimedia Keyboard & Optical USB Mouse
*No Floppy Drive or Media Reader Included
*No Modem Requested--So I wouldn't have a wireless network card? I use a router with my laptop to get internet from the cable internet in my house.
*McAfee SecurityCenter with anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, 24-months
*Microsoft Works 9.0 & Adobe Elements Studio
*2Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor,24x7 Phone Support
*Add CompleteCare Accidental Damage Service to 2Yr Lim Warranty
*Included 3 GB DataSafe Online Backup for 1Yr
$1443.00
Mac:
20" iMac with a free 8Gig iPod touch included (online rebate).
* 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
* 4GB 800MHz DDR2 SDPAM RAM
* 320GB hard drive
* 8x double-layer SuperDrive...what's a "SuperDrive" mean? CD/DVD RW+/-? Dual-Layer DVD?
* ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory
* AppleCare 3-yr Protection Plan ($119)
* Keyboard, Mighty mouse
$1,698.00
Dell is cheaper, comes with wireless keyboard and mouse (that's extra on a Mac) but the first Dell I listed has a poor "integrated" graphics card. Plus, I'd wait until the next OS comes out for Windows because I don't want Vista. The Mac hardly gives you upgrade options, but it comes with a nice lil free iPod Touch until Sept 15 for students. I also like that the speakers are built in. ;)
I would also like to look at HPs, but I know nothing about HP...I hear they're good and the monitors are sharp. Are the desktop sets cheaper than dell? I'd like to hear what anyone has to say about HP and if you could suggest HP models for me, I'd be very grateful!
Thank you much for reading my long nerdy, shpiel, and thank you in advance for your comments and tips.
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/7/2008 9:11:37 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1652
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I'd let your software choices and your video card requirements dictate the platform. You're already using Final Cut - do you want to buy a computer and then hope that the workflow in Premiere will be as good?
quote:
I'm faster on a PC. I can't help but get the feeling Macs are too much about the name brand. They look cool, but they seem to be more about form over function. Are they really better for the kind of stuff I do?
I'm inclined to agree with your impressions of form-over-function - to a degree. At work, I just got a 20" iMac and I love using it, but I'm not confident that the slot-loading cd drive will be very durable and those onboard speakers you mentioned fire out the back. (that's why I grabbed an Apogee Duet and a pair of Adam A7's  )
That said, the display is better than just about anything I've seen for a PC that would be in the same price range.
If you decide to go PC, at the price range you're in, you could be better off building it yourself. In my experience, if you want a fast machine w/ good parts, it doesn't start to make sense until you get up to around $1000-1200, but once you do, you can build a monster for less than what Dell would charge.
Oh, and Ableton runs on a PC, too. 
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/7/2008 9:35:51 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4012
Joined: 4/11/2005
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10+ years in broadcast television, no Macs.
(And if Final Cut is the only software you've used for non-linear editing, I would suggest learning at the least Premiere Elements. It's less than $100. Really, once you've learned one software you can pretty easily switch if your job requires something else. Most every broadcast facility I know of is using Premiere, an Avid product or a Pinnacle product. All of those on PC.)
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/9/2008 10:38:17 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 2155
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From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cowgurl4christ
-Lots of RAM...but what's the minimum I should get?
Well, RAM is pretty cheap right now, so I'd say 4GB for whatever you get (Mac or PC, XP or Vista). If you get a 32-bit OS you'll only be able to see part of that (probably around 3 - 3.5 GB) but I hope computer makers aren't charging too much for 4GB versus 2GB (I recently built a new box myself, and I got 4G of DDR2-800 RAM for $80)
quote:
-Intel Core 2 Duo Processor?....Do I go Duo or Quad?
I'm not familiar with the specific programs you're running. However, what I've been told about dual vs. quad is that 3D rendering especially, and video encoding as well, are two application types that take the greatest advantage of extra cores. There are other things that are more important than 2 more cores, but chances are the pro-level rendering/encoding you'll be doing will benefit from four slightly slower cores over two slightly faster ones.
As to what I'd make sure to spend enough money on before extra cores: RAM, Monitor, UPS, input devices (mouse, keyboard, tablet, etc.), hard drive (video takes a lot of space, as I'm sure you know, maybe an external drive as well for backup/storage), video card (especially if your rendering uses the GPU power),
quote:
-no vista. If it's as bad as I'm hearing...
Well, I've been using Vista for the last week or so, and it's certainly not as bad as I've heard. It does have some annoying points (why oh why do I have to confirm the deletion of some files 4 or more times????!), but mostly it's a lot like XP with a few nice new features. I can't say I recommend Vista, but I certainly don't think it's the horror story that some people paint it as.
quote:
-Specifically what graphics card should I look for? I hear ATI Mobility Radeon is great.
Mobility would be a mobile chip, for laptops. If you're getting a desktop you'll be looking for something different. If you need lots of 3D processing power in a graphics card, I'd suggest waiting until next month if possible when the new video cards from nVidia and ATI will come out, both offerings look to be significant increases over the past generation. If you're buying now, look at ATI 3870, nVidia 9600GT or 8800GT for high-mid-range options.
If you don't need lots of 3D power, and just want a competent video card with HD decoding ability, then most ATI or nVidia offerings will be fine. With either series I'd got with the x6xx or better (i.e. an ATI Radeon HD 3450 is likely to not be as good as a 2600XT, despite being a newer card).
quote:
*Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Processor
vs.
*Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Processor Q9300 (6MB Cache,2.50GHz,1333FSB)
There is a huge gap between these two processors! Not only is the E4500 only 2.2Ghz, but it's only got 2MB of cache (which should play a big role in the type of processing you'll be doing) and only an 800Mhz FSB. This isn't just 2 cores vs. 4 cores, these two chips are in completely different classes.
Now, if you were to compare that Quad to a E8500 which is in roughly the same price range. It's a dual-core chip running at 3.15Ghz and also has 6MB cache and 1333FSB. If it were between those two chips (4 cores at 2.5Ghz vs. 2 cores at 3.15Ghz), then it would be a tough choice. Extra cores would provide better performance in some applications, like rendering, but the faster clock speed would win out for most games and any applications that aren't multi-threaded past two cores.
quote:
*No Modem Requested--So I wouldn't have a wireless network card? I use a router with my laptop to get internet from the cable internet in my house.
Modem most likely refers to the older type of telephone line modems, for dial-up internet stuff. I don't think it's common for desktop computers to come with wireless cards, though you can certainly get one if you need it. (I like wired connections myself, if possible).
quote:
what's a "SuperDrive" mean? CD/DVD RW+/-? Dual-Layer DVD?
I'm pretty sure that the current definition of SuperDrive means it supports all the latest writeable optical media formats.
quote:
Plus, I'd wait until the next OS comes out for Windows because I don't want Vista.
Well, if Microsoft rushes Windows 7 out, you'll be waiting until at least next year (late 2009 at the earliest, I hear)... and it's going to be based on Vista, not the new "MinWin" some were hoping for. If there are delays, however, and most MS operating systems have been delayed, it could be several years before Windows 7 comes out.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/13/2008 10:29:05 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1153
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
cowgurl4christ: I can't help but get the feeling Macs are too much about the name brand. They look cool, but they seem to be more about form over function. Are they really better for the kind of stuff I do?
Macs used to be better in this area, but not anymore. PC's have closed the gap in terms of speed and software availability. I used to work on a Mac from home but have recently switched over completely to the PC as keeping both upgraded [software and hardware] was getting ridiculous. I run Flash, Dreamweaver, 3D software, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. just fine from my PC and the files are completely cross-compatible with the Mac. I'm sure many creative companies will continue to use Macs, but most larger companies with in-house creative departments are using PC's, so it's really a toss-up.
The one thing we won't do to our home PC? Upgrade - and I use that term lightly - to Vista!
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/16/2008 10:44:59 PM
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nuclear_sidewalk
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If you're tech-savvy, you'll probably prefer the PC. Macs are great, as I use them for Graphic Design, but you can do it cheaper w/ a PC. I'd be careful about switching apps though, as it's difficult getting up to speed when the pressure is on. What I *love* about Macs is how the OS feels in terms of workflow management. I'm constantly looking to hit f9-f11 keys on my PC, and then realize I'm not at work... and I can't use the Mac's expose' window-switch setup. Sure, Alt+Tab in Windows works almost as well, but not quite.
Macs are very solid machines though, and their AppleCare 3yr plan is impressive support, so keep that in mind. I'm torn, myself, since I love both platforms. The real downer on a Mac is that you can't do much gaming on it w/o running a bootcamp install. Even then, it's not exactly top-tier hardware for 3d games. Also, the iMac speakers really aren't bad at all for being built into the back of the screen.
Just my two cents there, and it wasn't very definitive. I'm a designer, not really a video guy. iMacs are fine for Graphic Design, but I've always thought the Mac Pro was the machine for video types. Oh, and don't get Vista.
< Message edited by nuclear_sidewalk -- 6/16/2008 10:52:09 PM >
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/16/2008 10:58:33 PM
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Karaboo2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
Well, RAM is pretty cheap right now, so I'd say 4GB for whatever you get (Mac or PC, XP or Vista). If you get a 32-bit OS you'll only be able to see part of that (probably around 3 - 3.5 GB) but I hope computer makers aren't charging too much for 4GB versus 2GB (I recently built a new box myself, and I got 4G of DDR2-800 RAM for $80)
Well, I've been using Vista for the last week or so, and it's certainly not as bad as I've heard. It does have some annoying points (why oh why do I have to confirm the deletion of some files 4 or more times????!), but mostly it's a lot like XP with a few nice new features. I can't say I recommend Vista, but I certainly don't think it's the horror story that some people paint it as.
Dh and I each have a Dell Inspiron 9400 ... mine is XP Media Edition, he went with the Vista upgrade. Everything else about our computers is the same. Vista uses almost twice as much RAM as XP ... he is always getting memory errors, and I avoid them completely, even though I have more stuff loaded on mine.
He called Dell to see what the cost would be for more RAM ... they are charging in excess of $60 for a single gig ... and the way the Inspirons are set up, he would need two sticks of an identical 'strength' as there are dual ports (and he was informed that filling just one would be a no-no, as it could cause more problems to the system)
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Tea Drinkers Anonymous
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/16/2008 11:16:04 PM
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TMeeks
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Either system will be fine and both are used in various studios. I have a feeling, however, that the Mac is not as dominant as it once was for graphics and certainly isn't as dominant for animation and 3D processing.
Why not call local video or animation houses and find out what they are using. Or, better yet, check online for advertising to see what people are looking for. I'm guessing that Premiere is the dominant video package aside from the dedicated systems like the Avid.
If you are learning animation, you might find this to be a bit fun. See how we had to do it in the OLD days... 1985. This animation was done on a PC platform (Mindset) designed by the founder of Pinnacle. It might come in handy should you ever have to write something on the history of animation in any of your classes. And, if you do, feel free to call on me to point you in some different directions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kilIyXfHg0
I actually have real-time animations going back to 1980; but, they are REALLY crude.
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Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/17/2008 2:38:52 PM
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davemiller7
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I've done mostly graphics and some music with my Mac. Tried a little bit of that with PCs. I wouldn't trade my Mac for a dozen PCs. They're intuitive, smooth, and the operating system is super stable. Which ever system you buy, get as much RAM as you can. My 2cents worth...........
-Dave
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/17/2008 5:56:12 PM
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fluffmonkey
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Macs would be the best for what your wanting to do, although you can do stuff like that with PC's and I agree with Dave get lots of ram Also (go with the Quad)
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 6/18/2008 12:48:37 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1749
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I checked with one of the lead artists and animators within Electronic Arts and they are virtually 100% PC.
If games are in your future, then the PC is probably the best choice.
When it comes to choosing something related to a career, don't go by people's preferences. Go by where the money is going to be when you leave school.
By the way, since you are into animation, check out EA's SPORE Creature Creator. It's a LOT of fun and a beta was just released for free download yesterday.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 6/18/2008 12:57:25 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 7/10/2008 6:24:03 AM
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JonCo54
Posts: 191
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Here is something you might want to look at as well. It is a listing of software that is used in the movie and graphics industry.
The Linux Motion Picture Pipeline
by Robin Rowe
Feb. 17th, 2005
Within the industry the assembly line of hardware and software used for making movies is called a studio pipeline. Linux is preferred because it scales well and is compatible with tens of millions of lines of unix code the studios have developed internally over the years. All the large studios use Linux as their primary OS for desktops and server renderfarms.
The motion picture production pipeline begins with a film scanner, HD tape, or 3d modeling software such as Maya. For feature animation there would be no live footage, just 3d models. For visual effects there can be a mix of 3d and live footage. Scanning 2d paper drawings for animation is no longer used.
Live action 35mm film footage is scanned into digital intermediate format as sequentially numbered 2k pixels wide images. Popular studio file formats are dpx, cin, exr or tif. Scans are "dust-busted" using paint/retouching software such as CinePaint to make a perfect digital master. The images may be stabilized (camera tracked to remove shake) using software such as Mokey. Rest of story and more info here.
http://www.linuxmovies.org/software.html
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 7/10/2008 3:02:45 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 2155
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cowgurl4christ
Haven't got a computer yet...I'm waiting to see if Windows Vienna or Windows 7 will be any good because I don't want to deal with Vista.
Okay! Post a new thread in 2010 or so! We'll help you then.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Mac or PC? What's right for me? - 7/10/2008 3:56:11 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 856
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Not sure what you mean by only Mac parts. Are you referring to peripherals? If so, there are many different brands that will work with a Mac. For instance, I'm using a Western Digital 320G external hard drive, an Epson printer, and Labtec speakers. I've also used a LaCie hard drive and a HP printer. Anything with USB ports should work with them.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: cowgurl4christ
Thanks for all the great responses!
I didn't know you could animation on computers in 1985...man i was in my mom's womb back then! hehe
Haven't got a computer yet...I'm waiting to see if Windows Vienna or Windows 7 will be any good because I don't want to deal with Vista.
I'm definitely leaning towards PC thanks to everyone's responses! The thing I dislike mostly about Mac is that only Mac makes mac parts...there's no other off brands that you can use from what I hear.
And no, video games are not in my future...I only want to know 3D because my interests lie in Motion Graphics and Broadcast Design. 3D has been really hard for me to learn actually (using Maya 8). In the end, my models look nice, but I don't usually how to approach certain things I want to achieve. *Should I birail? Loft?? Extrudddee? AHHH* However, I'm buying books and taking class at school, so lookout world! :P
Next question...anyone know anything about boldata computers? ( http://www.boldata.com ) This brand was suggested by creativecow.net (which is a really informative site for After Effects and Video Multimedia creators/producers/editors/etc.)
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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