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My space Vs My Life - 7/21/2008 2:38:28 PM
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AslansChild
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Since MySpace is the one area everyone on here is aware of that is the reason for the title. The OP by HOMEGROWNKIDS prompted this post. Not only is there myspace but there are MSN communities, Blogs, and a host of other on-line communities. My son (15) has a facebook. HE has close to 300 friends and he actually knows most of them. Due to his changing of schools and various interests (sports, Music, youth group) he has a diverse group of friends. I have the keys to his facebook so I can get an idea of what he is doing online. But how is his, and for that matter, any kids online actions any different from his off line actions. I have a real problem with most of the comments on this board related to how "dangerous" these online community sites are. I think they are as safe as our own communities, as well as the neighborhoods we grew up in (I'm in my early 40's). As part of my life as a 12-18yo I had friends my parents met as well as friends they didn't meet, I was solicitied for "favors" from girls, I was offered "entertainment" that would include smoking, drugs and alchohol. People are so up in arms about their kids involvement in on-line communities when the only thing they should be worried about is the hype that is created by the sensational news. What comes out in the online community postings are what's truly in our kids hearts, it is human nature. What you need to do is be able to relate tou your kids not regulate (if at 15 my son decides to make really bad decisions I must have missed something along the way). A computer is no different than what we had access to, it just reaches a bigger audience through a different medium. If your worried about predators, worry about the people who have direct access to your kids, and if your worried about your kids hearts, talk to them and be a parent.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/21/2008 2:53:47 PM
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shadowspring
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I think the big fear is that it enables your teen to have a secret life right under your nose.
I remember awhile back the smart 16 yr old who had secretly struck up a romantic relationship with a grown man from the Middle East. She told mom she needed a passport for a trip to Canada to see a friend who had moved up north.
Apparently mom had no reason to suspect dishonesty from her honors student daughter. She drove her daughter to the bus station to catch her bus to Canada and went to work.
The daughter caught a cab to the airport and flew to the Middle East. The US State Dept was able to get her back home only because she was a minor. It caused an international stir at the time.
That is the sort of thing that scares parents- the secrecy.
I get around that by having a myspace and viewing my children's pages regularly. They also have to hand over cell phones no questions asked so I can view text massages or lose the phone for 30 days minimum.
Oh, and don't kid yourself that your own teens will never make a really bad decision. They are no less human because they have been well-parented.
_____________________________
"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/21/2008 3:02:38 PM
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AslansChild
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
I .
I get around that by having a myspace and viewing my children's pages regularly. They also have to hand over cell phones no questions asked so I can view text massages or lose the phone for 30 days minimum.
As a smart kid, wouldn't they delete any messages they don't want you to see if they know you will be checking their phone/computer.
Kids respond to their parents trust as well as their discipline. What I was trying to say is that it is the heart of the child and the detachment of the parents, or sometimes the opposite of overbearing that leads kids to make these bad decisions and whether the internet was there or not they would still find an outlet.
As for the 16yo, I sometimes feel the news edits their content to fit the sensationalism they are trying to achieve. Granted in a typical day a 16yo would not have the chance to strike up an ongoing conversation with an older man whether it be here or abroad but there are plenty of non-internet related stories of these situations occurring.
(edited TOS 6)
< Message edited by AslansChild -- 7/21/2008 3:51:45 PM >
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/21/2008 8:00:15 PM
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MrsTracy72
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Shadowspring, I do the same thing with my son. I have his password. I log onto his space and check his messages and make sure he didn't add any friends without my permission. I also make sure he has no personal info out there just in case.
His age is 99. He does not even have the state he lives in and he is not allowed to accept friends or request friends unless I have said ok. I think that online communities are what you make of them. If you let your kids "run wild" all over the internet, there will be problems, but if you moniter them as if you would if they were going and hanging out by friends houses, then you will get the same results online as you would in real life.
My ex husband had a fit when he found out I let my son have a myspace, but didn't even think to look at it, or ask about it. Just told him that I was wrong to let him have one and how dangerous it was and that he could get killed. But then on the flipside, his wife seems to have taken an interest in looking me up to keep tabs on what I am doing. My son doesn't get as much attention in that way from their house. And I am suposed to worry about the strangers who can get to him when my ex husbands wife "stalks" me online? Whatever.
I think that it is up to the parents to keep track of their kids no matter what. I know you can't watch them 24/7, but you can know who their friends are, check up on them, and let them know that you require info as you ask for it even if it does take them by surprise.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/21/2008 11:36:49 PM
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MENU4EVR
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This is a very sticky subject. If your son is able to have his own my-space do you also check his history? He can still receive provocative messages and invites. As long as he deletes them you would never know. Not to say I'm perfect at all. My daughter used to be able to use the computer until we found out she had a my-space. She is 11. Online she was 16 and boy crazy. She also had a cell phone for emergencies. No more. She was deleting text messages. She was adding little boys in her phone and putting them under girls names. There was a point were we would take her phone away at night, at one point it just came down to no more phone altogether. Its a very thin line. I don't let my kids go out of my sight. The computer has locks and limits. Sites are blocked. The computer is in the living room. Maybe its overbearing but I joined a gang when I was 13. I don't want my kids going that route, but I don't want to be overbearing and force them away either. Unfortunately my kids know from me the mistakes Ive made. I was in jail for a while and they know what can happen if they stray away from God. We really have to keep eye on our kids and lead them towards God. And pray as much as we possibly can that they don't go down the wrong path.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 8:20:45 AM
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mommyplus3
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aslans-
thank you for the OP. i tried to respond yesterday, but my comps kept locking up  i agree with what you're saying. ime, i find that my children need more trust and less ruling with an iron fist. we set the rules, and allow them to choose to follow them, or not. it all starts with communication - when rules and guidelines are set, they are given very clear reasons why or why not...and i assure you the reason is never "because i said so." as for the intrenet/myspace thing, a couple of years before i allowed it, i explained the dangers, we watched tv, and most importantly, i went online and showed them how easy it is to get personal info by just linking around until i could put the puzzle pieces together. then th esubject would come up periodically, and when i felt like they could handle it, they had access. i do have passwords, and permission to check up on them (part of the prerequisites for them having the privilage), but it is much rarer now. i have said it before, but will state it again: i am raising future adults. i want to have the confidence that my kids will make good choices and decisions when i am not around. the only way thta i can see to do that is to allow them to make decisions (on their own) when i can keep them safe. imo, if they do/do not do things because mommy said no, then what will happen when mommy isn't around anymore to say no? make sense? it is just me...and my family...but i choose not to control them, but give them the tools to make smart choices. i think that is a lesson that they will take with them forever. but alas, i always add that this is what works in MY household. my kids respond well to this, maybe all wouldn't...but then, that is not my decision, as i was only entrusted with my 3 kids. 
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 9:25:34 AM
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shadowspring
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quote:
As a smart kid, wouldn't they delete any messages they don't want you to see if they know you will be checking their phone/computer.
That is against the rules around here, and if we catch you (and we would!) then you lose your cell phone and/or computer privileges. I would have done the exact same thing MENU did if my children were attempting any kind of secret life that needs to be hidden from parents.
Honesty, transparency and integrity are hugely important values in our home. Everyone practices these virtues, everyone is expected to live by them. If we have any reason to suspect our kids are hiding from us, we will take away privileges ASAP.
No one is allowed to lock their bedroom doors, unless they are changing. Everyone is expected to knock before entering and wait for permission to enter. I can go through my kids rooms anytime I want, and they are actually free to rummage through mine if they ever want to- it's not locked. There's no hidden porn, drugs, secret love affairs or any other sin hiding in my bedroom, so I do not care if they want to go through my stuff someday.
I don't go through their journals or sock drawers very often, because I don't see a need to do so. But I would not hesitate if I thought it necessary.
_____________________________
"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 9:42:49 AM
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shadowspring
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quote:
we set the rules, and allow them to choose to follow them, or not.
Just curious, mommyplus3. Are there any consequences to not following the rules? Your post makes it sound as if there are no consequences to breaking your rules.
If you do not set consequences as a teaching tool, I am afraid for your children. Society does have consequences for breaking rules, and they are almost always far more severe than anything a parent might apply in order to train their children to do what's right.
My 2nd cousin's teen son was running around partying at 17, not coming home on time. His single Dad gave up disciplining him as he was so close to 18. He had only been running around like this for a few months, when the boy was shot in the head at 1 am by stranger he had never met.
If he had been home by a decent curfew, he would not be a quadriplegic in a nursing home for the rest of his life. This is not sensationalist news- THIS IS OUR FAMILY'S REAL LIFE!
I would rather my children hate me forever than allow them to suffer natural consequences for behavior I KNOW is foolish and risky! If you are unwilling to restrain your children, then like Eli in the Old Testament, both you and your children will suffer for it.
_____________________________
"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 10:00:42 AM
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MrsTracy72
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MENU4EVR
This is a very sticky subject. If your son is able to have his own my-space do you also check his history?
Actually I do check his history. But I have to do that on his computer so not too often. I do have trust in him and I think that for now, he knows that the site is not his and that it is a privilage for him to be able to use it. I know he is not going to be perfect, but he does respect the fact that he has no privacy when it comes to being on the internet.
I can sign onto his myspace from my computer and have done that even before he was trying to get in. He used to get upset with me, but not anymore. He also used to play on the Virtual Magic Kingdom when they had it and my husband would sign in under different screennames and watch him.
Alot of times my husband signed in under his own name and they played together, but there were many times where my son didn't know that my husband was even in the same room with him.
I am confident that we as parents are doing what we can to keep him safe and behaved, but I also am not way out there and I do realise that there is going to be a time where he does do something that is going to be wrong. But at the same time, I know that it isn't going to be one of those things that goes on for months before we notice. We do watch him pretty well.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 10:06:54 AM
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MrsTracy72
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
I would rather my children hate me forever than allow them to suffer natural consequences for behavior I KNOW is foolish and risky! If you are unwilling to restrain your children, then like Eli in the Old Testament, both you and your children will suffer for it.
I totally agree with that. But I do think that they need some space. My kids don't get alot and I am ok with that because that is the way I chose to parent. I have been told that I am overprotective and overbearing on my kids, but at the same time, my kids do get to enjoy alot of freedoms that most other kids their age don't. That is because along with them getting to do the things they do, I am right behind them (even if they can't see me) making sure they are making the right choices.
So far, I know my son is on the right track. He has values and intregity. My middle daughter is a good role model (this from her teachers). It is my little one that I worry about. I have NEVER had a child who goes out of their way to disobey me. She will not enjoy the same privilages and freedoms as the other two if she stays on that track. Much of it depends on whether or not the child listens to what you say to them and sees the example you set and understands it.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 10:41:29 AM
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mommyplus3
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
quote:
we set the rules, and allow them to choose to follow them, or not.
Just curious, mommyplus3. Are there any consequences to not following the rules? Your post makes it sound as if there are no consequences to breaking your rules.
If you do not set consequences as a teaching tool, I am afraid for your children. Society does have consequences for breaking rules, and they are almost always far more severe than anything a parent might apply in order to train their children to do what's right.
My 2nd cousin's teen son was running around partying at 17, not coming home on time. His single Dad gave up disciplining him as he was so close to 18. He had only been running around like this for a few months, when the boy was shot in the head at 1 am by stranger he had never met.
If he had been home by a decent curfew, he would not be a quadriplegic in a nursing home for the rest of his life. This is not sensationalist news- THIS IS OUR FAMILY'S REAL LIFE!
I would rather my children hate me forever than allow them to suffer natural consequences for behavior I KNOW is foolish and risky! If you are unwilling to restrain your children, then like Eli in the Old Testament, both you and your children will suffer for it.
absolutely!! there are definitely consequences that they know about before. you break the internet rules, you lose computer access. you don't come home on time, you don't go out next time. i did not mean to imply that there are not consequences, but instead was saying that i don't choose to ban all activities.
what i was talking about was mypace and online activity. yes, all 3 of my kids have that access. they can choose whether to follow the rules and keep the privilage, or not to follow the rules and lose it. my point was that they will never learn if they do not have the chance to do it when i can keep them safe. if i ban myspace because i have seen/heard of questionable activity, then when they are away from my guidance, they may not be fully aware of how to handle things.
think of it this way: as i said, my kids all have myspace accts. the 2 girls have received friend requests form people they do not know. they came to me and asked me about it...how to handle it. we looked at it together, checked the privacy settings and revamped them. if they had not had that experience, maybe didn't open a myspace until college, and faced the same situation, i would not be right there to help them figure it out. then the outcome can become more questionable.
i think my point was that i choose not to use parental controls - or a banning of any kind with my kids. if they are not given the chance to make hard decisions, then how can we ever feel confident that they will make the right ones. they have to learn.
how i was raised is probably a big part of it. yeah, i was one of those kids who was explained the dangers of drinking, partying, etc. i was also told that my parents were a phone call away. in no way was i given a ticket to do what i wanted...i was given consequences...but i was also told that even though the consequences would apply, i would never be judged. then my parents told me that they trusted me to make the right decisions. and allowed me in situations to make those decisions.
i trust my kids to make the right decisions...most of the time they do - sometimes not. if so, then YAY for them and me as a parent. if they don't, then the evaluation process comes in. why did you make the choice you did? what can we do about it? and that privilage will be gone until we both feel confident that you will make the right decision.
let me add, that i think my kiddos are pretty mature for their ages (9, 11, and 13) and this is what works for them. a very light example is that of my 9 yo. a problem we have had lately, is that he has a whining/begging issue in the store to fulfill his wants. it is an ongoing discussion. i asked him last night if he wanted to run to wal-mart to pick up a bday present for a party and some groceries - explaining that there would be nothing else, and that the whining/begging would not be tolerated. he said, "i think i'll just stay home." when i asked why, the reponse was "i'm not sure if i can do that, so i don't need to put myself in the situation." that, imo, was a very telling and mature response. he (and the other 2) know themselves pretty well...if they don't feel 100% that they can make the right choice, then they will stay away - or ask for help. pretty good thing when i think things that can be really dangerous (as compared to throwing a fit for a toy).
i don't know if this helps or hurts my case  i know that i tend to be one of the more liberally-minded ones when it comes to parenting...and i can't stress enough that i know we are all different, and all have different parenting styles, and the way i do it is what works works for my family.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 1:14:29 PM
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AslansChild
Posts: 45
Joined: 6/30/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
quote:
If he had been home by a decent curfew, he would not be a quadriplegic in a nursing home for the rest of his life. This is not sensationalist news- THIS IS OUR FAMILY'S REAL LIFE!
I would rather my children hate me forever than allow them to suffer natural consequences for behavior I KNOW is foolish and risky! If you are unwilling to restrain your children, then like Eli in the Old Testament, both you and your children will suffer for it.
quote:
If he had been home by a decent curfew, he would not be a quadriplegic in a nursing home for the rest of his life. This is not sensationalist news- THIS IS OUR FAMILY'S REAL LIFE!
So your rules are based on personal experience which I understand. The situation generally revolves around the hype or lack of understanding by parents. I also think the detachment of the internet provides kids with an opportunity to push the limits of their own sensibility. It is a fine line between trust and teach. Parenting is the hardest job and there are so many opinions that we are always breaking new ground when something comes are way that hasn'r been dealt with in the past or by someone else.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 1:20:25 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6949
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: WA
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Mrs Tracy, how old is your son? I didn't think he was 13 yet.
_____________________________
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Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 2:59:24 PM
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mommyplus3
Posts: 56
Joined: 7/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
quote:
As a smart kid, wouldn't they delete any messages they don't want you to see if they know you will be checking their phone/computer.
That is against the rules around here, and if we catch you (and we would!) then you lose your cell phone and/or computer privileges. I would have done the exact same thing MENU did if my children were attempting any kind of secret life that needs to be hidden from parents.
Honesty, transparency and integrity are hugely important values in our home. Everyone practices these virtues, everyone is expected to live by them. If we have any reason to suspect our kids are hiding from us, we will take away privileges ASAP.
No one is allowed to lock their bedroom doors, unless they are changing. Everyone is expected to knock before entering and wait for permission to enter. I can go through my kids rooms anytime I want, and they are actually free to rummage through mine if they ever want to- it's not locked. There's no hidden porn, drugs, secret love affairs or any other sin hiding in my bedroom, so I do not care if they want to go through my stuff someday.
I don't go through their journals or sock drawers very often, because I don't see a need to do so. But I would not hesitate if I thought it necessary.
i agree with the honesty, transparencey, and integrity, but am curious...why are doors not allowed to be locked?
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 3:44:59 PM
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shadowspring
Posts: 1613
Joined: 5/27/2006
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mommyplus3,
quote:
Honesty, transparency and integrity are hugely important values in our home. Everyone practices these virtues, everyone is expected to live by them. If we have any reason to suspect our kids are hiding from us, we will take away privileges ASAP.
No one is allowed to lock their bedroom doors, unless they are changing. Everyone is expected to knock before entering and wait for permission to enter. I can go through my kids rooms anytime I want, and they are actually free to rummage through mine if they ever want to- it's not locked. There's no hidden porn, drugs, secret love affairs or any other sin hiding in my bedroom, so I do not care if they want to go through my stuff someday.
I don't go through their journals or sock drawers very often, because I don't see a need to do so. But I would not hesitate if I thought it necessary.
See above. Honest people have nothing to hide from one another. It seems pretty self-explanatory to me.
_____________________________
"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 3:51:27 PM
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mommyplus3
Posts: 56
Joined: 7/8/2008
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okay i get it...
it was a personal thing for me...we don't do locks (no rule against it, just isn't necessary), but sometimes - when i'm just spent and stressed, i lock my door. for the mental aspect (for me) as opposed to the physical barrier. you know...sometimes it just makes me feel better - when i'm in a bad mood - to lock my door and know that no one can get to me LOL. i don't think my kiddos have felt that yet...they can wait until they have kids HAHAHAHAHA!
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/22/2008 11:25:19 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1318
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
I think they are as safe as our own communities, as well as the neighborhoods we grew up in (I'm in my early 40's).
Here's my take on this. It's easier to talk about how dangerous these communities are than to actually go into the communities and learn what our kids are up to.
quote:
What comes out in the online community postings are what's truly in our kids hearts, it is human nature.
And therein lies the key. If you want to know where your kids heart is truly at, and where the hearts of the kids they associate with are at, create your own social network accounts and learn what the kids are all about.
Sometimes it seems, in dealing with the parents of kids, there is no desire to know what's really going on in the life of a kid. As long as everyone in the house is getting along peacefully, all is well. Meanwhile, little Johnny is posting rants about being the next school shooter and little Suzy is posting pornographic images of herself. Don't believe it happens? Take a look at the kids in your own community.
quote:
shadowspring
I think the big fear is that it enables your teen to have a secret life right under your nose.
If a parent is not afraid to really parent a child, there will be no secret life.
_____________________________
Change is not necessarily reform anymore than noise is music.
-Unknown-
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/23/2008 7:27:18 PM
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MrsTracy72
Posts: 1747
Joined: 2/28/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
Mrs Tracy, how old is your son? I didn't think he was 13 yet.
Not quite.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/24/2008 2:27:46 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16989
Joined: 2/28/2005
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quote:
I have a real problem with most of the comments on this board related to how "dangerous" these online community sites are. I think they are as safe as our own communities, as well as the neighborhoods we grew up in
If your worried about predators, worry about the people who have direct access to your kids, and if your worried about your kids hearts, talk to them and be a parent.
This is the topic of the OP. There is nothing in the OP about the underage use of the members of Myspace and whether or not it is considered fraud for a parent to sign up their child. Please stick to the topic. If you wish to discuss it perhaps one could start their own thread. Thank you.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/24/2008 8:48:48 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1707
Joined: 5/23/2006
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quote:
As part of my life as a 12-18yo I had friends my parents met as well as friends they didn't meet, I was solicitied for "favors" from girls, I was offered "entertainment" that would include smoking, drugs and alchohol. People are so up in arms about their kids involvement in on-line communities when the only thing they should be worried about is the hype that is created by the sensational news.
First of all you are talking about different generations. What was "safe" for my generation, and yours, is NOT automatically safe for our children and grandchildren
When I was 15 we never locked our doors at night, or when we went away for the day, but would I do that now? NEVER.
Also, a 12 year old child is just that, a child, and brain development is not complete in children at that age. Their ability to make wise decisions is hindered by that fact.
I have serious doubts about any one person having 300 plus friends. Acquaintance's possibly, but friends take time to develop, and at the age of 12-18 just how much time does one spend getting to know each individual?
Words typed on a computer often have nothing to do with the true character of a person. I don't think many 12 yr. old children can discern that automatically.
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/25/2008 3:42:07 PM
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AslansChild
Posts: 45
Joined: 6/30/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
As part of my life as a 12-18yo I had friends my parents met as well as friends they didn't meet, I was solicitied for "favors" from girls, I was offered "entertainment" that would include smoking, drugs and alchohol. People are so up in arms about their kids involvement in on-line communities when the only thing they should be worried about is the hype that is created by the sensational news.
First of all you are talking about different generations. What was "safe" for my generation, and yours, is NOT automatically safe for our children and grandchildren
When I was 15 we never locked our doors at night, or when we went away for the day, but would I do that now? NEVER.
Also, a 12 year old child is just that, a child, and brain development is not complete in children at that age. Their ability to make wise decisions is hindered by that fact.
I have serious doubts about any one person having 300 plus friends. Acquaintance's possibly, but friends take time to develop, and at the age of 12-18 just how much time does one spend getting to know each individual?
Words typed on a computer often have nothing to do with the true character of a person. I don't think many 12 yr. old children can discern that automatically.
I think words typed on a computer when typed in annonymity do lend themselves to a persons true character. Typing in a forum or in an interactive community or social network tears down the walls of shyness as well as temprance. I am more willing to engage in a conversation knowing that I can type my entire thought without being interuppted. In the same vien I believe kids will post exactly what's on their minds when they think they will. Also, to the mods point we are talking about kids who have reached the appropriate age based on Myspace/Face books TOC. ANd that was my original post. I actually had a very long leash at 15, one that my son does not have. As far as safety, I didn't say that what I did in my day was safe I said that I was exposed in real time to what teens are now exposed to on-line. And for the most part my car doors are usually unlocked as is my back door
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RE: My space Vs My Life - 7/25/2008 4:02:11 PM
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IonMoon
Posts: 981
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: The Unted State of Confusion
Status: offline
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EXCEPT... MySpace makes our kids vulnerable to a lot of adult predators who would not have access to them otherwise.
Sure, there are a handful of pedophiles in my area. But they try to keep to themselves. And my dd isn't going to be fooled by a 30-50 yo guy who comes sidling up to her on the street- but on the net, she can be fooled into thinking he is anything he decides he is going to be that day.
I know the kind of trouble I got into as a teen. I can imagine the kind I would have gotten into on the net.
Yes, the anonymity of the net can allow introverted people to express themselves and interact in a new, more comfortable way... but it can also hide the ugly side of people.
The benefits are there, sure; but to deny the dangers is foolish.
Tara P
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