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Obama on abortion - 5/27/2008 12:57:10 PM
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jfwink
Posts: 315
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: Arizona
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Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called "too close to infanticide." Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban. In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion. And now Obama has oddly claimed that he would not want his daughters to be "punished with a baby" because of a crisis pregnancy -- hardly a welcoming attitude toward new life.
Abortion is an unavoidable moral issue. It also has broader political significance. Democrats of a past generation -- the generation of Hubert Humphrey and Martin Luther King Jr. -- spoke about building a beloved community that cared especially for the elderly, the weak, the disadvantaged and the young.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html
Can Christians, even liberal Christians, support a candidate who is so extreme he opposed a bill preventing the killing of infants mistakenly left alive due to a botched abortion procedure?
_____________________________
James
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RE: Obama on abortion - 5/27/2008 2:03:44 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jfwink
Can Christians, even liberal Christians, support a candidate who is so extreme he opposed a bill preventing the killing of infants mistakenly left alive due to a botched abortion procedure?
Nope.
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RE: Obama on abortion - 5/27/2008 3:39:33 PM
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djv1255
Posts: 146
Joined: 8/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jfwink
In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion.
Not mistakenly left alive. The mother was given drugs to induce labor and the baby was born alive but premature. It was then left alone to die.
_____________________________
Favorite Photo Blogs: US Military Doing Good Deeds
US Torture and Atrocities (the blog name is poking fun at liberals not our soldiers)
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RE: Obama on abortion - 5/27/2008 4:53:52 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: djv1255
quote:
ORIGINAL: jfwink
In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion.
Not mistakenly left alive. The mother was given drugs to induce labor and the baby was born alive but premature. It was then left alone to die.
Whew! Thank goodness they didn't kill the babies!
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RE: Obama on abortion - 5/27/2008 5:35:53 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1010
Joined: 11/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jfwink
Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called "too close to infanticide." Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban. In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion. And now Obama has oddly claimed that he would not want his daughters to be "punished with a baby" because of a crisis pregnancy -- hardly a welcoming attitude toward new life.
Abortion is an unavoidable moral issue. It also has broader political significance. Democrats of a past generation -- the generation of Hubert Humphrey and Martin Luther King Jr. -- spoke about building a beloved community that cared especially for the elderly, the weak, the disadvantaged and the young.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html
Can Christians, even liberal Christians, support a candidate who is so extreme he opposed a bill preventing the killing of infants mistakenly left alive due to a botched abortion procedure?
quote:
extr
It is not possible to be an extremist among Democrats when it comes to killing the unborn. What could be more extreme than exporting abortion, making other people pay for them, and makeing it legal to suck the brains out of a live baby? To normal people, that is extreme. To Democrats, that's normal.
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RE: Obama on abortion - 5/27/2008 6:09:55 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jfwink
Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called "too close to infanticide." Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban. In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion. And now Obama has oddly claimed that he would not want his daughters to be "punished with a baby" because of a crisis pregnancy -- hardly a welcoming attitude toward new life.
Abortion is an unavoidable moral issue. It also has broader political significance. Democrats of a past generation -- the generation of Hubert Humphrey and Martin Luther King Jr. -- spoke about building a beloved community that cared especially for the elderly, the weak, the disadvantaged and the young.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html
Can Christians, even liberal Christians, support a candidate who is so extreme he opposed a bill preventing the killing of infants mistakenly left alive due to a botched abortion procedure?
They can and they will even use the Word of God to justify it... I have seen it done on this forum. Which puzzles me... You cannot promote homosexuality here yet you can promote abortion... Go figure...
John
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RE: Obama on abortion - 5/27/2008 6:29:03 PM
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jfwink
Posts: 315
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: Arizona
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ljmac: actually there are a few dems in the House that are pro life. Heath Shuler, the former Redskins QB is one I can think of. Without a doubt though, pro life dems are a very small minority.
_____________________________
James
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Why no solutions? - 5/27/2008 6:46:14 PM
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Evangel70
Posts: 426
Joined: 10/28/2006
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quote:
Not mistakenly left alive. The mother was given drugs to induce labor and the baby was born alive but premature. It was then left alone to die.
Are there no pro-life people working in hospitals or abortion clinics who can take these premature babies and raise them as their own? Why are pro-lifers not going after the 1 million plus women having abortions every year. Or for that matter going after the 1 million plus men who made them pregnant in the first place. Why are pro-lifers not lining up outside of hospitals and abortion clinics offering to adopt the child of a woman going in for an abortion or offering whatever support the woman needs (financial, emotional, parental training, etc) in order to keep her child?
Why are pro-lifers looking for a target to hate (liberals, democrats, etc.) rather than for solutions. Does anyone believe that voting for a republican will cause abortions to end? Will reversing Roe v. Wade stop the sexual immorality that is leading to all these abortions? Why no solutions?
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/27/2008 7:45:21 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
quote:
Not mistakenly left alive. The mother was given drugs to induce labor and the baby was born alive but premature. It was then left alone to die.
Are there no pro-life people working in hospitals or abortion clinics who can take these premature babies and raise them as their own? Why are pro-lifers not going after the 1 million plus women having abortions every year. Or for that matter going after the 1 million plus men who made them pregnant in the first place. Why are pro-lifers not lining up outside of hospitals and abortion clinics offering to adopt the child of a woman going in for an abortion or offering whatever support the woman needs (financial, emotional, parental training, etc) in order to keep her child?
Why are pro-lifers looking for a target to hate (liberals, democrats, etc.) rather than for solutions. Does anyone believe that voting for a republican will cause abortions to end? Will reversing Roe v. Wade stop the sexual immorality that is leading to all these abortions? Why no solutions?
They are there. All a woman needs to do is contact a crisis pregnancy center and they will have innumerable adoption contacts. They can also help provide here with the medical care, living arrangments, every and anything she needs to give birth to a healthy child. And many, many of the people that you see protesting outside abortion deathcamps would be happy to have one of those precious little ones! There is not, nor has there ever been, a shortage of people that want a child. It may be hard to place an older kid, but never a baby!
And it's usually at a crisis pregnancy center that the young woman will find the solution to the problem. Most of these centers are funded by Christian organizations and churches. The counselors are trained to give the gospel after they've met the physical needs of the moms.
You should visit one sometime...you'd be surprised at the compassion you'll find there. Quite different than what you'd find at a baby deathcamp.
< Message edited by DarleneSchreiber -- 5/27/2008 7:51:34 PM >
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/27/2008 8:02:39 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 903
Joined: 4/20/2005
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I guess this means if you vote for Obama, there's a place reserved for you in hell?
I haven't decided whom I'm voting for and am not registered to any party...just curious...
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/27/2008 9:26:33 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
quote:
Not mistakenly left alive. The mother was given drugs to induce labor and the baby was born alive but premature. It was then left alone to die.
Are there no pro-life people working in hospitals or abortion clinics who can take these premature babies and raise them as their own? Why are pro-lifers not going after the 1 million plus women having abortions every year. Or for that matter going after the 1 million plus men who made them pregnant in the first place. Why are pro-lifers not lining up outside of hospitals and abortion clinics offering to adopt the child of a woman going in for an abortion or offering whatever support the woman needs (financial, emotional, parental training, etc) in order to keep her child?
Why are pro-lifers looking for a target to hate (liberals, democrats, etc.) rather than for solutions. Does anyone believe that voting for a republican will cause abortions to end? Will reversing Roe v. Wade stop the sexual immorality that is leading to all these abortions? Why no solutions?
I guess I should pay the bills of the local thug who is going to murder the guy at the local 7-11 for what is in the till as well...
I don't have to mention a single solution when I state that abortion is clearly cold blooded murder and the breaking of God's law...
You can go on about what pro-lifers all you want, those who pay someone to murder the child, those who actually kill the child, those who support and make laws that allow it and those who support those who make the laws have to deal with the violation of God's law...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 5/27/2008 9:33:22 PM >
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/27/2008 9:30:45 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
I guess this means if you vote for Obama, there's a place reserved for you in hell?
I haven't decided whom I'm voting for and am not registered to any party...just curious...
Peace and God bless,
How can a person who claims to love Christ believe they can support a person who supports the murder of unborn children at the same time... Serving two masters...
John
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 7:21:52 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 903
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
I guess this means if you vote for Obama, there's a place reserved for you in hell?
I haven't decided whom I'm voting for and am not registered to any party...just curious...
Peace and God bless,
How can a person who claims to love Christ believe they can support a person who supports the murder of unborn children at the same time... Serving two masters...
John
As I said, I'm undecided.
I guess that's a yes, then, from you?
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 7:30:47 AM
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rlj
Posts: 1833
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
How can a person who claims to love Christ believe they can support a person who supports the murder of unborn children at the same time... Serving two masters...
The only candidate who is serious about abortion is Chuck Baldwin. How can christians who love christ honestly ridicule and critique other christians for saying they support the only candidate who wants to abolish abortion? Yet they do.
There are other issues besides abortion. I'm absolutely disgusted with an administration that would higher a group of thugs like Blackwater who would murder innocent Iraqi's for no apparent reason and get off with it. I'm disgusted over an administration that would intentionally fabricate and spin a war. (link here I'm thoroughly sick and tired of a party that claimed for my entire life that they were conservative and were fiscally responsible yet for 6 years they set record after record after record for number of earmarks, number of pork barrel spending addons to legislation, number of dollars for pork in each budget, worst deficits and coincidentally the dollar is eroded about 50% of what it was when Dubya took office.
It's real easy to overlook abortion when dealing with a lifetime of lies and sleaze from the so called party of "christians and Matt Foley and Larry Craig" that ran the government for 6 of the last 7.5 years.
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 7:46:31 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2190
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
I guess this means if you vote for Obama, there's a place reserved for you in hell?
We already have a place reserved for us in hell. That is where we are going unless we die to self and pick up our cross and follow Christ in faith. That is why Christ came to earth and died for our sins. So that we can go to heaven and have a true intimate relationship with God.
Christ said we would know one another by our love. He also said that if you love him you will obey him.
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 7:59:16 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 903
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
I guess this means if you vote for Obama, there's a place reserved for you in hell?
We already have a place reserved for us in hell. That is where we are going unless we die to self and pick up our cross and follow Christ in faith. That is why Christ came to earth and died for our sins. So that we can go to heaven and have a true intimate relationship with God.
Christ said we would know one another by our love. He also said that if you love him you will obey him.
Hi P31W,
Well, again, does this mean that if you vote for Obama, do you believe then, that these people are going to hell? It's a simple question. I only ask because, reading the posts here on 'Obama Watch', one could conclude that is consensus here.
Thanks, Peace and God bless,
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 9:10:48 AM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
I guess this means if you vote for Obama, there's a place reserved for you in hell?
We already have a place reserved for us in hell. That is where we are going unless we die to self and pick up our cross and follow Christ in faith. That is why Christ came to earth and died for our sins. So that we can go to heaven and have a true intimate relationship with God.
Christ said we would know one another by our love. He also said that if you love him you will obey him.
Hi P31W,
Well, again, does this mean that if you vote for Obama, do you believe then, that these people are going to hell? It's a simple question. I only ask because, reading the posts here on 'Obama Watch', one could conclude that is consensus here.
Thanks, Peace and God bless,
The only people that are going to hell are those that reject the gift of the cross...period. If any of those who happen to vote for Obama (or Clinton, or McCain, or Barr, or Bozo) have rejected that gift, then, yes, they're going to hell. What's so hard to understand and who's making a different statement? Who is even alluding to something different?
I think the point many are attempting to hammer in is that many of the things that some of the candidates stand for are inconsistent with the Christian life. That's about as deep as it gets!
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 12:02:33 PM
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ken1906_4
Posts: 275
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
I guess this means if you vote for Obama, there's a place reserved for you in hell?
We already have a place reserved for us in hell. That is where we are going unless we die to self and pick up our cross and follow Christ in faith. That is why Christ came to earth and died for our sins. So that we can go to heaven and have a true intimate relationship with God.
Christ said we would know one another by our love. He also said that if you love him you will obey him.
Hi P31W,
Well, again, does this mean that if you vote for Obama, do you believe then, that these people are going to hell? It's a simple question. I only ask because, reading the posts here on 'Obama Watch', one could conclude that is consensus here.
Thanks, Peace and God bless,
The only people that are going to hell are those that reject the gift of the cross...period. If any of those who happen to vote for Obama (or Clinton, or McCain, or Barr, or Bozo) have rejected that gift, then, yes, they're going to hell. What's so hard to understand and who's making a different statement? Who is even alluding to something different?
I think the point many are attempting to hammer in is that many of the things that some of the candidates stand for are inconsistent with the Christian life. That's about as deep as it gets!
Since that’s the case and I am not saying I disagree with you, but what is the reason some of us are so loyal to some of these candidates? If we look at Senators McCain, Clinton and Obama all 3 have stood by policies that are and still inconsistent with Christian life. Let’s go deeper, why are some of us so loyal to our various political parties? The big 2 are both guilty of sinful behavior and un-Christian like policies. Are we ranking the sins when it come to people we don’t like or agree with politically?
_____________________________
"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 12:06:31 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1346
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
Status: offline
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quote:
Are we ranking the sins when it come to people we don’t like or agree with politically?
Yes, we rank the sins.
Abortion is #1
Gays is #2
Robbing the country is #501
Watching children die of starvation is #100001
Being a liar is #1,0000000000000000000000
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
My granddaughter Niara
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 12:20:39 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1010
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
How can a person who claims to love Christ believe they can support a person who supports the murder of unborn children at the same time... Serving two masters...
The only candidate who is serious about abortion is Chuck Baldwin. How can christians who love christ honestly ridicule and critique other christians for saying they support the only candidate who wants to abolish abortion? Yet they do.
There are other issues besides abortion. I'm absolutely disgusted with an administration that would higher a group of thugs like Blackwater who would murder innocent Iraqi's for no apparent reason and get off with it. I'm disgusted over an administration that would intentionally fabricate and spin a war. (link here I'm thoroughly sick and tired of a party that claimed for my entire life that they were conservative and were fiscally responsible yet for 6 years they set record after record after record for number of earmarks, number of pork barrel spending addons to legislation, number of dollars for pork in each budget, worst deficits and coincidentally the dollar is eroded about 50% of what it was when Dubya took office.
It's real easy to overlook abortion when dealing with a lifetime of lies and sleaze from the so called party of "christians and Matt Foley and Larry Craig" that ran the government for 6 of the last 7.5 years.
A snowball in hell has more chance than Chucky B.
Here is the entire list of Constitution Party accomplishments:
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 12:26:55 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1010
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
quote:
Not mistakenly left alive. The mother was given drugs to induce labor and the baby was born alive but premature. It was then left alone to die.
Are there no pro-life people working in hospitals or abortion clinics who can take these premature babies and raise them as their own? Why are pro-lifers not going after the 1 million plus women having abortions every year. Or for that matter going after the 1 million plus men who made them pregnant in the first place. Why are pro-lifers not lining up outside of hospitals and abortion clinics offering to adopt the child of a woman going in for an abortion or offering whatever support the woman needs (financial, emotional, parental training, etc) in order to keep her child?
Why are pro-lifers looking for a target to hate (liberals, democrats, etc.) rather than for solutions. Does anyone believe that voting for a republican will cause abortions to end? Will reversing Roe v. Wade stop the sexual immorality that is leading to all these abortions? Why no solutions?
Not only do Democrats openly promote abortion, they also openly oppose abortion alternatives, such as letting the child live. Throughout our nation Democrats have attempted to close Crisis Pregnancy Centers. That was one of Elliot Spitzers obsessions. Liberals in NY hated the CPCs and wanted them put out of business.
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 12:33:25 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
The only people that are going to hell are those that reject the gift of the cross...period. If any of those who happen to vote for Obama (or Clinton, or McCain, or Barr, or Bozo) have rejected that gift, then, yes, they're going to hell. What's so hard to understand and who's making a different statement? Who is even alluding to something different?
I think the point many are attempting to hammer in is that many of the things that some of the candidates stand for are inconsistent with the Christian life. That's about as deep as it gets!
quote:
Since that’s the case and I am not saying I disagree with you, but what is the reason some of us are so loyal to some of these candidates? If we look at Senators McCain, Clinton and Obama all 3 have stood by policies that are and still inconsistent with Christian life. Let’s go deeper, why are some of us so loyal to our various political parties? The big 2 are both guilty of sinful behavior and un-Christian like policies. Are we ranking the sins when it come to people we don’t like or agree with politically?
You got me. Personally, I'm looking for candidates that are Christians. It's slim pickins for sure. I voted for Huckabee myself. As for being loyal, I'm only loyal to Christ...I don't give that loyalty to a mere man. Human beings will disappoint every time! But I do feel we have a responsibility to vote so we have to do the best we can, with the Lord's leading. And, remember people...it's not us, but God that raises up leaders! We prayerfully vote, seeking His will for our choice, then the results are up to Him.
So it's really a moot conversation, isn't it? 
< Message edited by DarleneSchreiber -- 5/28/2008 12:39:45 PM >
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 12:59:46 PM
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ken1906_4
Posts: 275
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Are we ranking the sins when it come to people we don’t like or agree with politically?
Yes, we rank the sins.
Abortion is #1
Gays is #2
Robbing the country is #501
Watching children die of starvation is #100001
Being a liar is #1,0000000000000000000000
It sure does seem like that?
It makes one think if Abortion trumps blasphemy the Holy Spirit. Around these parts Abortion is the number 1 sin.
_____________________________
"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
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RE: Why no solutions? - 5/28/2008 1:06:48 PM
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ken1906_4
Posts: 275
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
quote:
The only people that are going to hell are those that reject the gift of the cross...period. If any of those who happen to vote for Obama (or Clinton, or McCain, or Barr, or Bozo) have rejected that gift, then, yes, they're going to hell. What's so hard to understand and who's making a different statement? Who is even alluding to something different?
I think the point many are attempting to hammer in is that many of the things that some of the candidates stand for are inconsistent with the Christian life. That's about as deep as it gets!
quote:
Since that’s the case and I am not saying I disagree with you, but what is the reason some of us are so loyal to some of these candidates? If we look at Senators McCain, Clinton and Obama all 3 have stood by policies that are and still inconsistent with Christian life. Let’s go deeper, why are some of us so loyal to our various political parties? The big 2 are both guilty of sinful behavior and un-Christian like policies. Are we ranking the sins when it come to people we don’t like or agree with politically?
You got me. Personally, I'm looking for candidates that are Christians. It's slim pickins for sure. I voted for Huckabee myself. As for being loyal, I'm only loyal to Christ...I don't give that loyalty to a mere man. Human beings will disappoint every time! But I do feel we have a responsibility to vote so we have to do the best we can, with the Lord's leading. And, remember people...it's not us, but God that raises up leaders! We prayerfully vote, seeking His will for our choice, then the results are up to Him.
So it's really a moot conversation, isn't it?
That's excellent and that is how it should be. Unfortunately many of us who claim to have an affiliation within the body of Christ seem to be more loyal to flawed candidates, flawed political party's and even a flawed country.
_____________________________
"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
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