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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 11:22:21 AM
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CatholicCritter
Posts: 145
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how you prove a murder charge without evidence of a motive is beyond me. this was a disastrous error in judgment but no intent was proven, was it? criminal negligence, manslaughter, and wrongful death are pretty clear but murder doesn't quite fit the event. very sad.
_____________________________
http://saintunderconstruction.blogspot.com/
"There are not 100 people who hate the Catholic Church, yet there are millions who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be." --Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 11:23:59 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3201
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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Good!
ETA: "the baby, who had metabolized cocaine in his bloodstream and undigested cocaine in his stomach." From sucking on his fingers?...I don't think so.
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 6/19/2008 11:31:23 AM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 11:27:25 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CatholicCritter
how you prove a murder charge without evidence of a motive is beyond me. this was a disastrous error in judgment but no intent was proven, was it? criminal negligence, manslaughter, and wrongful death are pretty clear but murder doesn't quite fit the event. very sad.
You know, I was kind of thinking the same thing. Although I am of course very upset at the loss of the poor baby, I still do not think a life sentence should have been handed down for this. I understand that the father was definitely at fault, but a life sentence? If he had been shown to have intentionally done this to his child, then yes a life sentence is fine by me. But I'm just not sure the punishment fits the crime given these circumstances.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 11:29:02 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Good!
ETA: "the baby, who had metabolized cocaine in his bloodstream and undigested cocaine in his stomach." From sucking on his fingers?...I don't think so.
Geez, even the prosecutor said he didn't think the man purposefully gave any cocaine to his son.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 11:34:47 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1816
Joined: 10/12/2007
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This is too bad. I'm not sure if I agree with the sentence, but in this case, I am glad that the jury didn't feel the death penalty was warranted.
In Illinois, you can be tried for murder if someone dies while you are committing a felony. There was a weird case 20 years ago when two bank robbers robbed a bank, and while they were running away, a police officer shot and killed one of the robbers. Later, the other robber was tried and convicted of statutory murder and sentenced to 15 years in prison.
So I think the sentence may have been a little harsh, but I'll note that the baby died as a result of another felony, and the guy probably would have gone to prison for 10 years on drug charges, anyways.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 6/19/2008 11:41:10 AM >
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 11:36:10 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
This is too bad. I'm not sure if I agree with the sentence, but in this case, I am glad that the jury didn't feel the death penalty was warranted.
In Illinois, you can be tried for murder if someone dies while you are committing a crime. There was a weird case 20 years ago when two bank robbers robbed a bank, and while they were running away, a police officer shot and killed one of the robbers. Later, the other robber was tried and convicted of statutory murder and sentenced to 15 years in prison.
I remember hearing of that story. I think that is kind of extreme.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 11:51:53 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3201
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Good!
ETA: "the baby, who had metabolized cocaine in his bloodstream and undigested cocaine in his stomach." From sucking on his fingers?...I don't think so.
Geez, even the prosecutor said he didn't think the man purposefully gave any cocaine to his son.
They probably just couldn't prove it, but it is likely that he did from the sentence I quoted...either that, or he had quite a bit of cocaine on his fingers and was too blitzed to realize he was feeding it to his child by allowing him to suck on his fingers.
Either way, a baby is dead.
Who is responsible?
Oh, I know...
his father!
I'm glad the courts held him accountable. He made the decision to feed his drug habit while he was supposed to be taking care of his child and those actions resulted in the baby losing it's life. The only one I feel any sympathy for here is the child.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 12:25:25 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Good!
ETA: "the baby, who had metabolized cocaine in his bloodstream and undigested cocaine in his stomach." From sucking on his fingers?...I don't think so.
Geez, even the prosecutor said he didn't think the man purposefully gave any cocaine to his son.
They probably just couldn't prove it, but it is likely that he did from the sentence I quoted...either that, or he had quite a bit of cocaine on his fingers and was too blitzed to realize he was feeding it to his child by allowing him to suck on his fingers.
Wow, as far as I know prosecutors are not usually in the habit of saying they think someone is innocent of charges simply because they can't prove their suspicions, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say the prosecutor is probably telling the truth when he says he doesn't believe it's on purpose.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 12:36:32 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 856
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Well, how about if I go out drinking, get into an accident where someone gets killed. I didn't mean to kill him/her. I'm still guilty, aren't I?
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Good!
ETA: "the baby, who had metabolized cocaine in his bloodstream and undigested cocaine in his stomach." From sucking on his fingers?...I don't think so.
Geez, even the prosecutor said he didn't think the man purposefully gave any cocaine to his son.
They probably just couldn't prove it, but it is likely that he did from the sentence I quoted...either that, or he had quite a bit of cocaine on his fingers and was too blitzed to realize he was feeding it to his child by allowing him to suck on his fingers.
Wow, as far as I know prosecutors are not usually in the habit of saying they think someone is innocent of charges simply because they can't prove their suspicions, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say the prosecutor is probably telling the truth when he says he doesn't believe it's on purpose.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 12:41:18 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Well, how about if I go out drinking, get into an accident where someone gets killed. I didn't mean to kill him/her. I'm still guilty, aren't I?
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Good!
ETA: "the baby, who had metabolized cocaine in his bloodstream and undigested cocaine in his stomach." From sucking on his fingers?...I don't think so.
Geez, even the prosecutor said he didn't think the man purposefully gave any cocaine to his son.
They probably just couldn't prove it, but it is likely that he did from the sentence I quoted...either that, or he had quite a bit of cocaine on his fingers and was too blitzed to realize he was feeding it to his child by allowing him to suck on his fingers.
Wow, as far as I know prosecutors are not usually in the habit of saying they think someone is innocent of charges simply because they can't prove their suspicions, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say the prosecutor is probably telling the truth when he says he doesn't believe it's on purpose.
I ALREADY SAID HE IS GUILTY! (see post #4) I'm just trying to say that I don't think the punishment fits the crime. If he had done it on purpose, then yes it would. But if he did not do it on purpose, then I have a hard time agreeing with him getting a life sentence.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 12:43:47 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3201
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Good!
ETA: "the baby, who had metabolized cocaine in his bloodstream and undigested cocaine in his stomach." From sucking on his fingers?...I don't think so.
Geez, even the prosecutor said he didn't think the man purposefully gave any cocaine to his son.
They probably just couldn't prove it, but it is likely that he did from the sentence I quoted...either that, or he had quite a bit of cocaine on his fingers and was too blitzed to realize he was feeding it to his child by allowing him to suck on his fingers.
Wow, as far as I know prosecutors are not usually in the habit of saying they think someone is innocent of charges simply because they can't prove their suspicions, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say the prosecutor is probably telling the truth when he says he doesn't believe it's on purpose.
We will have to disagree on that point, but there was more to my post than what you quoted and you missed the main point entirely...
Once again...
Who, and who alone, is responsible for this baby's death?
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 12:51:19 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Good!
ETA: "the baby, who had metabolized cocaine in his bloodstream and undigested cocaine in his stomach." From sucking on his fingers?...I don't think so.
Geez, even the prosecutor said he didn't think the man purposefully gave any cocaine to his son.
They probably just couldn't prove it, but it is likely that he did from the sentence I quoted...either that, or he had quite a bit of cocaine on his fingers and was too blitzed to realize he was feeding it to his child by allowing him to suck on his fingers.
Wow, as far as I know prosecutors are not usually in the habit of saying they think someone is innocent of charges simply because they can't prove their suspicions, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say the prosecutor is probably telling the truth when he says he doesn't believe it's on purpose.
We will have to disagree on that point, but there was more to my post than what you quoted and you missed the main point entirely...
Once again...
Who, and who alone, is responsible for this baby's death?
And as I have already stated in a previous post, the father is entirely at fault. I did not miss your point I think you are missing mine. Never did I say that the father is innocent. I have always in every post I have put out there said he is guilty. My point is not about whether or not he is guilty, it is about whether or not a life sentence should have been given in this instance. I don't think it should have been, given what I know about the case.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 12:59:55 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3201
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
My point is not about whether or not he is guilty, it is about whether or not a life sentence should have been given in this instance. I don't think it should have been, given what I know about the case.
This is what I know about the case:
1) A healthy baby was left in its father's care.
2) The father chose to get stoned out of his mind and either fed or let the baby lick his fingers that were covered with cocaine.
3) The baby came out of that babysitting session dead.
4) The father was given a life sentence.
5) Nicely done, judge and jury!
6) Amen!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 1:25:55 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10886
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
My point is not about whether or not he is guilty, it is about whether or not a life sentence should have been given in this instance. I don't think it should have been, given what I know about the case.
This is what I know about the case:
1) A healthy baby was left in its father's care.
2) The father chose to get stoned out of his mind and either fed or let the baby lick his fingers that were covered with cocaine.
3) The baby came out of that babysitting session dead.
4) The father was given a life sentence.
5) Nicely done, judge and jury!
6) Amen!
If it'd had been me he would be on death row. THEN I could say nice job to the jury.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 1:41:14 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 856
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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I misspoke, sorry. Didn't mean to bring up guilt. I meant that since I didn't mean to kill the other person, is that any different from the coke father's case? I would be guilty of vehicular homicide. That will sometimes bring a life sentence, particularly considering a past record of drug/alcohol abuse, etc. I think the past record is really important here in this case.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Well, how about if I go out drinking, get into an accident where someone gets killed. I didn't mean to kill him/her. I'm still guilty, aren't I?
-Dave
I ALREADY SAID HE IS GUILTY! (see post #4) I'm just trying to say that I don't think the punishment fits the crime. If he had done it on purpose, then yes it would. But if he did not do it on purpose, then I have a hard time agreeing with him getting a life sentence.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 1:56:27 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
For those of you who believe the sentence is overly harsh I ask this: how many chances should this man get to clean up his act? He continues in this lifestyle to the detriment of his child even after repeated convictions. He needed a HUGE wake-up call, and he got one.
quote:
Newman said Driver had at least eight previous convictions, including six that were related to cocaine. The Houston Chronicle reported Wednesday in its online edition that when the baby died, Driver was free on bail on a cocaine possession charge.
Whoooooops, there it is! 
There what is?
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 1:58:58 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10886
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
There what is? I'd say the fact that he should pay the extreme price for his baby's death.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 2:01:29 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
There what is? I'd say the fact that he should pay the extreme price for his baby's death.
Don't you mean your opinion that he should pay the extreme price for the baby's death?
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 2:22:07 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1816
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
For those of you who believe the sentence is overly harsh I ask this: how many chances should this man get to clean up his act? He continues in this lifestyle to the detriment of his child even after repeated convictions. He needed a HUGE wake-up call, and he got one.
quote:
Newman said Driver had at least eight previous convictions, including six that were related to cocaine. The Houston Chronicle reported Wednesday in its online edition that when the baby died, Driver was free on bail on a cocaine possession charge.
quote:
For those of you who believe the sentence is overly harsh I ask this: how many chances should this man get to clean up his act? He continues in this lifestyle to the detriment of his child even after repeated convictions. He needed a HUGE wake-up call, and he got one.
The punishment should fit the crime. In Illinois, if you drive drunk and kill someone, the crime is typically vehicular manslaughter and you do 10-20 years- even if you've been charged with drunk driving multiple times.
This guy did effectively the same thing. Why are they treating this the same way most Midwesterners (and former Midwesterners) and Northeasterners would treat cold-blooded first degree murder?
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 2:34:32 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10886
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
There what is? I'd say the fact that he should pay the extreme price for his baby's death.
Don't you mean your opinion that he should pay the extreme price for the baby's death?
I already said that "If it'd been me, he'd be on death row."
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Texas man gets life sentence for baby's coke death - 6/19/2008 2:40:07 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
There what is? I'd say the fact that he should pay the extreme price for his baby's death.
Don't you mean your opinion that he should pay the extreme price for the baby's death?
Sophie,
I agree with you on most things that you post, but here I have to take the opposite road. The man has 8 prior convictions. 6 of them for cocaine. He was out on bail at the time of the baby's death. How many chances should he get to endanger others? Do you believe that people with drug addictions are harmless to others in society?
Well, now of course I do not believe they are harmless! I just happen to agree with blessedinnyc that this should not be treated like he purposefully went about killing his child. I do understand that he is guilty, and trust me I am certainly not feeling all warm and fuzzy about this guy. I would also not be happy unless he got at least 15-20 in prison. But a life sentence just seems extreme to me in this particular case.
Now as far as his previous drug record, if during his life he had already caused the death of even one more person prior to him causing the death of his son, see that is where I would agree with this sentence.
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