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The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/7/2008 10:57:06 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2128
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: online
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Of all the politicians that I have met or heard, the politician most like Obama, in my mind, is Jimmy Carter... particularly as he relates to Christians.
I was fascinated by Jimmy Carter. He promised "Change" from Washington Beltway politics. He was going to have the most moral government ever. He was a "man of the people" who understood "our pain".
I remember taking my children down to Pennsylvania Avenue to watch his parade. And was thrilled as he got out of his armored car and walked down the street.
That was the last time I was thrilled by Jimmy Carter. And, the "change" he brought to our country made him, in my mind, the worst president that this country has ever had. He brought us financial disasters and foreign policy disasters. He brought change alright. But, NOT the kind of change that those of us who voted for hum expected.
I will NEVER fall for that nonsense again. When a cadidate promises "change" I want to know exactly WHAT that change will be, HOW they plan to accomplish it and what the ramifications will be in the long term. Obama is not giving us ANY of these things. He is, I'm afraid, another Carter.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 12:19:22 AM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Of all the politicians that I have met or heard, the politician most like Obama, in my mind, is Jimmy Carter... particularly as he relates to Christians.
I was fascinated by Jimmy Carter. He promised "Change" from Washington Beltway politics. He was going to have the most moral government ever. He was a "man of the people" who understood "our pain".
I remember taking my children down to Pennsylvania Avenue to watch his parade. And was thrilled as he got out of his armored car and walked down the street.
That was the last time I was thrilled by Jimmy Carter. And, the "change" he brought to our country made him, in my mind, the worst president that this country has ever had. He brought us financial disasters and foreign policy disasters. He brought change alright. But, NOT the kind of change that those of us who voted for hum expected.
I will NEVER fall for that nonsense again. When a cadidate promises "change" I want to know exactly WHAT that change will be, HOW they plan to accomplish it and what the ramifications will be in the long term. Obama is not giving us ANY of these things. He is, I'm afraid, another Carter.
Totally agree. You are right. He has not said a thing about what he will do. Hes running just like Kerry did as well.
Remember when Kerry said 100 million times about 'i have a plan'? Thats just another version of Obamas "Change".
Obama is going to lose this election.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 12:23:18 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
I will NEVER fall for that nonsense again. When a cadidate promises "change" I want to know exactly WHAT that change will be, HOW they plan to accomplish it and what the ramifications will be in the long term. Obama is not giving us ANY of these things. He is, I'm afraid, another Carter.
Obama has a website that can get pretty detailed. Have you sought to educate yourself on the candidates this year?
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 12:34:35 AM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
I will NEVER fall for that nonsense again. When a cadidate promises "change" I want to know exactly WHAT that change will be, HOW they plan to accomplish it and what the ramifications will be in the long term. Obama is not giving us ANY of these things. He is, I'm afraid, another Carter.
Obama has a website that can get pretty detailed. Have you sought to educate yourself on the candidates this year?
As someone who has read the website and heard his speeches - i will say to you that he dosent talk about what he will change. He just says he will change things. "Better health care...better schools...etc"
Just. Like. Kerry. Did.
But im actually glad you brought up his website...what does that mean for people that dont have computers or arent internet worthy? Do they just fall through the cracks on his issues? Ive heard his speeches and actually the answer is a resounding YES.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 12:49:09 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
As someone who has read the website and heard his speeches - i will say to you that he dosent talk about what he will change. He just says he will change things. "Better health care...better schools...etc"
Speeches aren't given to detailed analyses unless they are in a board room, though Obama has done much better than some. I hope you weren't expecting to get by on speeches alone.
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 12:55:50 AM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
As someone who has read the website and heard his speeches - i will say to you that he dosent talk about what he will change. He just says he will change things. "Better health care...better schools...etc"
Speeches aren't given to detailed analyses unless they are in a board room, though Obama has done much better than some. I hope you weren't expecting to get by on speeches alone.
No. Not from him im not.
I also watched the primary debates. Saw nothing there, either.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 1:02:52 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
As someone who has read the website and heard his speeches - i will say to you that he dosent talk about what he will change. He just says he will change things. "Better health care...better schools...etc"
Speeches aren't given to detailed analyses unless they are in a board room, though Obama has done much better than some. I hope you weren't expecting to get by on speeches alone.
No. Not from him im not.
Wait, are you going for McCain solely because of speeches? Amazing.
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 1:09:29 AM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
As someone who has read the website and heard his speeches - i will say to you that he dosent talk about what he will change. He just says he will change things. "Better health care...better schools...etc"
Speeches aren't given to detailed analyses unless they are in a board room, though Obama has done much better than some. I hope you weren't expecting to get by on speeches alone.
No. Not from him im not.
Wait, are you going for McCain solely because of speeches? Amazing.
lol!
How did you get that from what i said? lol!
I think you are going with Obama simply by speeches.
Im going with McCain because of experience, quality, morals, and religion.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 9:11:31 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2128
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: online
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Uh... what's missing is things like, "We will force every physician in Ameria to participate in our national health care plan. Otherwise, we will have no physicians that will participate... as is happening now with medicare. Yes, I know that this will mean that thousands of physicians will retire; but, we will replace those physicians with foreign trained physicians."
AARP, not exactly a right wing organization, printed this article that has a fleeting gem... "doctors recover only 10 percent to 15 percent of their costs from federal programs." to the point where primary care physicians are either not taking medicare patients or retiring.
http://bulletin.aarp.org/states/co/articles/shortfall_in_primary_care_physicians_likely_to_get_worse.html
A health care system without physicians is an inneffective health care system.
The devil is in the details in unintended consequences. The social engineers and supporters of the democrat party seem entirely unable to think that far ahead. The very existence of gas guzzling SUVs is an artifact of the large car tax that was meant to force manufacturers to make more small cars. The legislation exempted trucks. And, both manufacturers and consumers slipped right into that oversight. The result was the exact opposite promised by the democrats at the time... HIGHER gas consumption, not less.
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
As someone who has read the website and heard his speeches - i will say to you that he dosent talk about what he will change. He just says he will change things. "Better health care...better schools...etc"
Speeches aren't given to detailed analyses unless they are in a board room, though Obama has done much better than some. I hope you weren't expecting to get by on speeches alone.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 9:19:24 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2128
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: online
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Have you ever heard the term TROLL being used of those that are probably plants in forums?
You'll find, if you search the history of the poster that is interacting with you and continually trying to puch people to the Obama site, that they have ONLY posted in this particular forum and have never interacted in anything but political talk... at least for the last 100 messages.
Trolls aren't so much interested in community building as they are in promoting a particular agenda... sometimes in a paid status. Years ago, when the ISP of posters on CompuServe and other pre-internet forums was known, we could actually track many people right back to their offices in various political headquarters. These days that is a bit more difficult. But, the signs that caused us to look in the past have not changed. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
As someone who has read the website and heard his speeches - i will say to you that he dosent talk about what he will change. He just says he will change things. "Better health care...better schools...etc"
Speeches aren't given to detailed analyses unless they are in a board room, though Obama has done much better than some. I hope you weren't expecting to get by on speeches alone.
No. Not from him im not.
Wait, are you going for McCain solely because of speeches? Amazing.
lol!
How did you get that from what i said? lol!
I think you are going with Obama simply by speeches.
Im going with McCain because of experience, quality, morals, and religion.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 10:55:03 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1762
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
You have GOT to be kidding us, right? And, to ask a person like me if I have sought to educate myself about the candidates is like asking a cat if it has whiskers!!! 
It was a rhetorical question. I don't believe you have educated yourself on the candidates this year. If you actually had, your first post in this thread would have been nonsensical or incredibly disingenuous. Yes, Jimmy Carter had a problem with being annoyingly nonspecific and talking about love and peace and morality and stuff (without much in the way of substance). The same simply cannot be said in good faith for Obama. The very existence of http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ makes this clear.
And no, I'm not a troll. A troll is someone who is deliberately inflammatory on the internet. I am not that, and I take umbrage at your ham-fisted insinuation. I came here because I like debating, I like discussion. The other boards I frequent have gotten too partisan in a pro-Obama sense for me to enjoy any sort of disagreement, so I came here.
Maybe you aren't a troll but, if you'd been around here any length of time, and visited any other folders, you'd know that calling TMeeks' opinions nonsensical or dinigenuous is pretty silly.
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 11:02:59 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3985
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Of all the politicians that I have met or heard, the politician most like Obama, in my mind, is Jimmy Carter... particularly as he relates to Christians.
I was fascinated by Jimmy Carter. He promised "Change" from Washington Beltway politics. He was going to have the most moral government ever. He was a "man of the people" who understood "our pain".
I remember taking my children down to Pennsylvania Avenue to watch his parade. And was thrilled as he got out of his armored car and walked down the street.
That was the last time I was thrilled by Jimmy Carter. And, the "change" he brought to our country made him, in my mind, the worst president that this country has ever had. He brought us financial disasters and foreign policy disasters. He brought change alright. But, NOT the kind of change that those of us who voted for hum expected.
I will NEVER fall for that nonsense again. When a cadidate promises "change" I want to know exactly WHAT that change will be, HOW they plan to accomplish it and what the ramifications will be in the long term. Obama is not giving us ANY of these things. He is, I'm afraid, another Carter.
I had a similar experience with the 2000 election. 
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 11:25:08 AM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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Yeh..changes may be difficult to some.
Elections have many rumors all over etc but this election in particularly the resistance of change may are playing "scary" to some as 1 of the candidates is black (some people still may be unconfortable at the site of a black man...) on top of that he has an arab name (people will link it to terrorist plus some are xenophobic also), had conection as attending chuch with a controversial pastor for long time (pastor theology and discourse sure problematic), there are rumors he is not even US born, there are rumors Arab milionary with conections with I think terrorism groups who payed for hs Harvard education..there are rumors of so many sorts that if some one come up that Barak Obama is i the reality Obama Bin Laden who had a plastic surgery in Brazil (drug lords and traffics do that...LOL)
I see more than the regular election rumors in the particular case of Barak Obama because he is black in a majority white nation known for its racism and xenophobia, there are still groups for their own reasons do not want see a black man as their presidents. I can imagine the neo nazist, arian nations, all other extreme groups busy busy propagating the scary tactics rumors all over cyber space.
I am sure Secret Service, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security and all other agencies have their eyes open regarding Barak Obama.
I am sure ready for change and not scare of a black man in power even if is a Democrat , in my head no one can do soooo bad as the present administration.
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 11:28:53 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
Yeh..changes may be difficult to some.
Elections have many rumors all over etc but this election in particularly the resistance of change may are playing "scary" to some as 1 of the candidates is black (some people still may be unconfortable at the site of a black man...) on top of that he has an arab name (people will link it to terrorist plus some are xenophobic also), had conection as attending chuch with a controversial pastor for long time (pastor theology and discourse sure problematic), there are rumors he is not even US born, there are rumors Arab milionary with conections with I think terrorism groups who payed for hs Harvard education..there are rumors of so many sorts that if some one come up that Barak Obama is i the reality Obama Bin Laden who had a plastic surgery in Brazil (drug lords and traffics do that...LOL)
I see more than the regular election rumors in the particular case of Barak Obama because he is black in a majority white nation known for its racism and xenophobia, there are still groups for their own reasons do not want see a black man as their presidents. I can imagine the neo nazist, arian nations, all other extreme groups busy busy propagating the scary tactics rumors all over cyber space.
I am sure Secret Service, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security and all other agencies have their eyes open regarding Barak Obama.
I am sure ready for change and not scare of a black man in power even if is a Democrat , in my head no one can do soooo bad as the present administration.
so, what you are saying is color shouldn't matter??? Good!!! Now, tell that to all of the racist Obama supporters out there who are voting for him, specifically because he is black!
reverse racism is becoming the new epidemic in society.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 11:45:05 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
Maybe you aren't a troll but, if you'd been around here any length of time, and visited any other folders, you'd know that calling TMeeks' opinions nonsensical or dinigenuous is pretty silly.
Given that I'm new here, TMeeks' reputation doesn't really get in the way of my seeing that there's an easy-to-find wealth of Obama policy proposals. I certainly don't expect people to agree with said proposals, but it paints a poor picture of oneself to state that the content simply isn't there.
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 12:22:08 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
Yeh..changes may be difficult to some.
Elections have many rumors all over etc but this election in particularly the resistance of change may are playing "scary" to some as 1 of the candidates is black (some people still may be unconfortable at the site of a black man...) on top of that he has an arab name (people will link it to terrorist plus some are xenophobic also), had conection as attending chuch with a controversial pastor for long time (pastor theology and discourse sure problematic), there are rumors he is not even US born, there are rumors Arab milionary with conections with I think terrorism groups who payed for hs Harvard education..there are rumors of so many sorts that if some one come up that Barak Obama is i the reality Obama Bin Laden who had a plastic surgery in Brazil (drug lords and traffics do that...LOL)
I see more than the regular election rumors in the particular case of Barak Obama because he is black in a majority white nation known for its racism and xenophobia, there are still groups for their own reasons do not want see a black man as their presidents. I can imagine the neo nazist, arian nations, all other extreme groups busy busy propagating the scary tactics rumors all over cyber space.
I am sure Secret Service, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security and all other agencies have their eyes open regarding Barak Obama.
I am sure ready for change and not scare of a black man in power even if is a Democrat , in my head no one can do soooo bad as the present administration.
so, what you are saying is color shouldn't matter??? Good!!! Now, tell that to all of the racist Obama supporters out there who are voting for him, specifically because he is black!
reverse racism is becoming the new epidemic in society.
If I am not mistaken majority of blacks are Democrats and Obama is a Democrat, make sense black keep voting democrat and enjoying a 1st black candidate also. It make sense to me, finaly it may happen and that is it. Blacks are voting steady for Presidents candidates of their choices for a while, I supose they have experience in casting their votes.
If there are black racists sure, as racism and prejudices comes in every color I suppose.
What I try to point out that rumors in all elections do come around but in this one in particularly some of these rumors because Obama is black (and Arab name and etc etc) will be fulled by specific racial groups that dont want a black as President. There were at list 2 alleged attemps to assassinate him already, I think.
White candidates do not have the same situation as most candidates and Presidents were all whites and all people vote for them not even paying attention to his color or that his color was historical fact.
I am not color blind, Obama is black all others before as McCain white. If he is elected expect to see front page: "1st American Black President!!!" in the case of McCain his color will be not front pages. I do think that is natural that any race other than white will be recognize when their 1st color representant get to be President and do not forget the sex as 1st Woman President.
Hope they all get to be Presidents "soon" and we all get over the 1ts ones becoming Presidents and VP's also, after all the excitement and etc that we all just get to the business and issues as usual of a Nation.
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 12:26:48 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
reverse racism is becoming the new epidemic in society.
What is reverse racism?
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 12:28:49 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
What is reverse racism?
An oxymoron. Racism is racism, regardless of who's involved.
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 12:30:23 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
If he is elected expect to see front page: "1st American Black President!!!" in the case of McCain his color will be not front pages.
If McCain is elected, the front page will read "Sarah Palin: First Female Vice President!"
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 1:04:27 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
Yeh..changes may be difficult to some.
Elections have many rumors all over etc but this election in particularly the resistance of change may are playing "scary" to some as 1 of the candidates is black (some people still may be unconfortable at the site of a black man...) on top of that he has an arab name (people will link it to terrorist plus some are xenophobic also), had conection as attending chuch with a controversial pastor for long time (pastor theology and discourse sure problematic), there are rumors he is not even US born, there are rumors Arab milionary with conections with I think terrorism groups who payed for hs Harvard education..there are rumors of so many sorts that if some one come up that Barak Obama is i the reality Obama Bin Laden who had a plastic surgery in Brazil (drug lords and traffics do that...LOL)
I see more than the regular election rumors in the particular case of Barak Obama because he is black in a majority white nation known for its racism and xenophobia, there are still groups for their own reasons do not want see a black man as their presidents. I can imagine the neo nazist, arian nations, all other extreme groups busy busy propagating the scary tactics rumors all over cyber space.
I am sure Secret Service, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security and all other agencies have their eyes open regarding Barak Obama.
I am sure ready for change and not scare of a black man in power even if is a Democrat , in my head no one can do soooo bad as the present administration.
so, what you are saying is color shouldn't matter??? Good!!! Now, tell that to all of the racist Obama supporters out there who are voting for him, specifically because he is black!
reverse racism is becoming the new epidemic in society.
If I am not mistaken majority of blacks are Democrats and Obama is a Democrat, make sense black keep voting democrat and enjoying a 1st black candidate also. It make sense to me, finaly it may happen and that is it. Blacks are voting steady for Presidents candidates of their choices for a while, I supose they have experience in casting their votes.
If there are black racists sure, as racism and prejudices comes in every color I suppose.
What I try to point out that rumors in all elections do come around but in this one in particularly some of these rumors because Obama is black (and Arab name and etc etc) will be fulled by specific racial groups that dont want a black as President. There were at list 2 alleged attemps to assassinate him already, I think.
White candidates do not have the same situation as most candidates and Presidents were all whites and all people vote for them not even paying attention to his color or that his color was historical fact.
I am not color blind, Obama is black all others before as McCain white. If he is elected expect to see front page: "1st American Black President!!!" in the case of McCain his color will be not front pages. I do think that is natural that any race other than white will be recognize when their 1st color representant get to be President and do not forget the sex as 1st Woman President.
Hope they all get to be Presidents "soon" and we all get over the 1ts ones becoming Presidents and VP's also, after all the excitement and etc that we all just get to the business and issues as usual of a Nation.
Adriana, I hope you can see my point. There are people voting for Obama, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE he is black. That notion is because of race, thus making it racism. If i voted for McCain because he was white, that would be a racist moment. Thus, wrong.
I believe MLK would like the matter-of-fact of BO or Alan Keyes or Michael Steele becoming the first black president, but honestly, because race should not matter, he wouldn't want it publicized. it's a matter of moving on.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: The Time I voted for "Change"... sigh... - 9/8/2008 1:09:21 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
What is reverse racism?
An oxymoron. Racism is racism, regardless of who's involved.
true dat, but my answer is that reverse racism is where the african-american community is benefitted by means of race motif because of the former racism/slavery of the past (think affirmative action)...i call it two wrongs not making a right.
I am not a racist, but i know that we as americans have to STOP focusing on the subject (race as a reason in legislation and voting) and move on.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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