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When to get married - 5/12/2008 3:46:49 AM
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amymelissa
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OK, I've been with my bf for 4 years now. I am almost 19 and he is 20. We are both Christians. We have discussed marriage and his initial rule was that I had to be at least 20 before we were engaged...he didn't feel that any younger was really appropriate. It's been over a year now and it's getting really hard for me to wait that long...I want to be married now! I've spoken to him again and (I can understand this reasoning) he wants to pay off his car loan (1 year) and save a bit before we get married. He wants to be fully financially secure before we get into things (his dad is a financial planner so this is where he gets it all from). I understand where he's coming from, but there is so much physical temptation and I regret to admit that we have gone well past our boundaries, I don't think I can wait another 2 years. I'm not really sure what I'm asking, but any sort of advice would be good.
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RE: When to get married - 5/12/2008 6:01:46 AM
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car2ner
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your sweetie is smart.... it is harder if you don't have a few dollars in your pocket when you start out. But noone is ever totally financially ready.
Yeah, stick to holding hands (very hard to do) and atleast one more year won't hurt. If you are a good match, you have a lifetime ahead of you.
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RE: When to get married - 5/12/2008 7:16:39 AM
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DaveW
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Hi Amy!
I am going to change hats here and go into "daddy" mode and give you some advice that probably will run counter to what many are saying. I have 4 children, the youngest is in his 3rd year of college (22 yo) and the oldest 2 daughters are married.
Back in my college days the senior pastor of the church I attended strongly opposed long engagements. He also opposed casual dating. (much more vehemently than I do) He saw both as leading ourselves into temptation and sin. While I see his take as overboard, he did have a good point. His words: "God does not call you to be engaged, He calls you to be married." If you both are sure that your bf and you are in God's will for marriage. then by all means get yourselves ready and get married. Do not wait for years. If you are pushing boundaries now, in 2 years you will slip even farther. It is not natural nor is it God's overall plan for any of us to be in a place of tension and temptation for months and years with no way of legally fulfilling those needs. It is a recipie for disaster.
Over on themarriagebed.com, many young couples come there with the same question you have: how can we stay pure (especially in our thoughts) over the next 2, 3, 5 years of engagement? We have already gone too far....
The advice is the same: get married sooner before you go any further.
Amy: please pray about this and see if there is any way to move the date closer.
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RE: When to get married - 5/12/2008 8:15:30 AM
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sen10tious
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quote:
ORIGINAL: amymelissa
He wants to be fully financially secure before we get into things (his dad is a financial planner so this is where he gets it all from). I understand where he's coming from, but there is so much physical temptation [...] I'm not really sure what I'm asking, but any sort of advice would be good.
I don’t think you see the danger in those statements. It all looks pretty innocent on the surface but it has at least three big red flags in it.
First flag is that you have blamed his dad for having taught his son some fiscal responsibility.
Flag two was raised because, even though you have agreed that you can understand good reasoning, you still have expressed your desire for physical temptation to trump that good reasoning.
The third flag is that you fail to acknowledge that being debt-free is an instruction that came straight from the Bible.
Edit:
I am adding this after reading Dave W’s post ~
If your boyfriend started out feeling that marriage any younger was really not appropriate, then there is an immediate issue to confront before attempting to move up a wedding date: Will the boyfriend feel like you are trying to change his original conviction? Will he ever resent you for trying to change his belief? Or is there a possibility that he is using his car loan as his stated reason for delay because he is just not ready to commit? The validity of Dave W’s advice is totally dependent upon his conditional statement, “If you both are sure that your bf and you are in God's will for marriage...” That might be the case, but nothing in your post indicates that your boyfriend has solid assurance that you are the woman God has chosen for his lifetime. And that assurance has to come from the Holy Spirit; you can't force it without making trouble.
< Message edited by sen10tious -- 5/12/2008 8:58:41 AM >
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RE: When to get married - 5/12/2008 8:46:48 AM
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buckifn
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Change your time together in a way that eliminates the opportunity to give in to temptation. For instance why not have your time spent together consist of working on projects together that reach out to help others in your community? Being alone is an open door for giving in to temptation if that is what your struggle is so meet around other people, stay involved in active projects that keep the focus on Christ and helping others, and build your life around things other than physical desires.
Whether you are engaged or not you need to learn to control your fleshly desires and along with praying about it every day I would think an important part of that would be stop feeding the appetites of the flesh.
If a person is serious about dieting they wouldn't hang out in a bakery all day and wonder how long it takes before they give in to wanting a doughnut, would they?
The Bible tells us to flee youthful lust. Pursue holiness. Follow that which is good.
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RE: When to get married - 5/12/2008 5:27:13 PM
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deermousie
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I agree with DaveW - if the temptation is strong, then get married. 1Cor. 7 is chock-full of advice on this subject:
vs. 1,2 It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.
v. 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Your bf can sell off his car and buy a cheaper one. To not do this hints that material possessions are more important than relationships and doing God's will. Yes, to marry now means you will probably be pretty poor. But God can bless, and our wealth is not measured in our possessions.
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RE: When to get married - 5/12/2008 6:39:35 PM
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bride48
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Have you talked to your pastor?
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RE: When to get married - 5/12/2008 7:42:34 PM
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angel4eva
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I agree with everyone what they saying to you. I think your boyfriend quite mature and smart to want to wait. There no point to rush into marriage and then later on regret it.
Enjoy your relationship now and have some fun!
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RE: When to get married - 5/12/2008 11:21:55 PM
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amymelissa
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Firstly, thank you all for your input so far. I've printed off your replies and use them as a conversation starter with my bf tonight (or tomorrow...)
quote:
bride48
Have you talked to your pastor?
Kind of. I've brushed the surface. I wasn't really willing to go into much detail as we were out at a birthday dinner of a mutual friend (I'm really good friends with his sisters - he's a young pastor) but the topic of marriage did come up briefly. I was considering talking more deeply about it the other day, perhaps this is a good sign that I should.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sen10tious
quote:
ORIGINAL: amymelissa
He wants to be fully financially secure before we get into things (his dad is a financial planner so this is where he gets it all from). I understand where he's coming from, but there is so much physical temptation [...] I'm not really sure what I'm asking, but any sort of advice would be good.
I don’t think you see the danger in those statements. It all looks pretty innocent on the surface but it has at least three big red flags in it.
First flag is that you have blamed his dad for having taught his son some fiscal responsibility.
Flag two was raised because, even though you have agreed that you can understand good reasoning, you still have expressed your desire for physical temptation to trump that good reasoning.
The third flag is that you fail to acknowledge that being debt-free is an instruction that came straight from the Bible.
Edit:
I am adding this after reading Dave W’s post ~
If your boyfriend started out feeling that marriage any younger was really not appropriate, then there is an immediate issue to confront before attempting to move up a wedding date: Will the boyfriend feel like you are trying to change his original conviction? Will he ever resent you for trying to change his belief? Or is there a possibility that he is using his car loan as his stated reason for delay because he is just not ready to commit? The validity of Dave W’s advice is totally dependent upon his conditional statement, “If you both are sure that your bf and you are in God's will for marriage...” That might be the case, but nothing in your post indicates that your boyfriend has solid assurance that you are the woman God has chosen for his lifetime. And that assurance has to come from the Holy Spirit; you can't force it without making trouble.
Thanks for these things to think about. About the third flag you brought up, I didn't know it said that in the Bible. What's the reference? (not that I don't believe you, I'm curious now) I probably should have made it a bit clearer that we both agree that God has brought us together and that we are meant to be together.
To everyone else: sorry I can't reply individually...(my lunch break only lasts so long) but you have all given me good things to think and pray about. Perhaps I'm just being impatient. I'll talk to my bf and we'll see how everything goes.
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RE: When to get married - 5/13/2008 6:45:03 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
The third flag is that you fail to acknowledge that being debt-free is an instruction that came straight from the Bible. quote:
About the third flag you brought up, I didn't know it said that in the Bible. What's the reference? (not that I don't believe you, I'm curious now) Rom 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Some take this as a scriptural prohibition on debt. Read the chapter and make up your own mind on it.
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RE: When to get married - 5/13/2008 6:03:48 PM
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bride48
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Another red flag here is your lack of respect for your boyfriend. He's made his decision, and you're whining in an effort to change his mind. If you won't accept his leadership now, how do you expect to submit to him once you're married?
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RE: When to get married - 5/13/2008 6:15:59 PM
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gengwall
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I'm with DaveW and sen10tious. I see the same red flags. He can always come up with reasons to wait...and wait and wait and wait. Believe me, you will never be financially stable when you get married (unless you wait till you are 30 something). That is just a stall. My wife and I got married when I was 24 and we didn't hit what I would call financial stability until I was 35.
Your biggest problem right now is you are tettering on immorality, "burning with passion" as Paul puts it. His solution is simple - get married...now! (1 Cor 7)
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RE: When to get married - 5/13/2008 6:35:09 PM
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bride48
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Yes, there are two (or more) ways to look at this situation. I am concerned about their temptation. But, having almost married a man because I was burning (and pushing that envelope), I'd never advise marriage for that reason alone! Marriage is about so much more than sex, and apparently her boyfriend realizes that fact. Granted, he should be taking the lead in making sure they avoid time alone. But if he has convictions about being financially prepared, she needs to respect those convictions.
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RE: When to get married - 5/14/2008 2:11:49 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
I regret to admit that we have gone well past our boundaries
I blame him for that more than you, as the male usually takes the lead in such things. I think your boyfriend either needs to not be in a relationship or marry you. I'm not for all this prolonged stuff. The Bible says to rejoice and delight in the wife of one's YOUTH. And, if his father is a financial adviser, he should have helped him figure out how to save up for a car rather than go into debt over it; you shouldn't have got the brunt of it. I don't know, it sounds like he's stalling. There will always be bills. House payment, etc. It's kind of late, so I might not be making sense.
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RE: When to get married - 5/14/2008 10:35:02 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewelsquote:
I regret to admit that we have gone well past our boundaries I blame him for that more than you, as the male usually takes the lead in such things. I think your boyfriend either needs to not be in a relationship or marry you. Well, I would have to say that both are usually 100% to blame. Furthermore, I would like to state that a large majority (even of believers) push the envelope and go too far, sometimes WAAAYYYY too far. (read the thread about maternity wedding gowns)
IMO, it is a cruel scheme of the enemy to distort our culture so that young people do not develop enough maturity to be able to marry in their teens or at least early 20s. The cultures of the bible had this as a norm, and the text of scripture seems to assume marriage at or shortly after puberty. As it is, we (even though I am over 50 I remember it too well and so include myself from back in the day) who are not mature in the Lord enough to handle the intensity of sexual desires are at our peak libidos, (for guys that is 17-19 yo) and even if the gals are not at peak yet, it can still be extremely strong. It is like letting a 5 year old use a power saw.
So what does this godless society throw at them? Encouragement to not grow up unitl you are 25-30. Years of schooling in order to get a decent carreer. Finiancial incentives to stay single (like losing educational scholarships and grants if you get married) and the message: you can have sex and it is no big deal.
But everyone knows it is a big deal.
How does the church help this terrible situation? By saying that you should be financially stable before you get married, pushing back the time even more. Oh, and if you are desiring to be intimate with someone you are lusting and committing adultery in your heart. On top of that they heap on the condemnation that if you are frustrated it is ONLY because you are filling your mind with illicit thoughts and images, ignoring the hormonal basis of those desires. And if you do something to relieve yourself of that frustration, you are the worst sinner since Judas.
So it seems obvious to me that if you add to all that an emotionally close relationship with someone you find desirable and intend to marry some day and have to maintain that for years (or more than a decade if you are young enough) without going too far, the likelyhood of failure is very high. That seems to be borne out by the increasing numbers of pregnancies prior to marriage in the christian community. I remember how difficult it was 30 years ago. It is worse now. I applaud any young couple that seriously TRIES to be pure.
I can think of no more discouraging a place than to be torn up by desires and know that any fulfilment of them is still years away.
So do what you have to to make it thru. If you need chaperones and accountability partners, get them. If you need to relieve the hormones, do so privately. Be open with each other and your accountability partners and (you may hate this one) your parents. If there are things that you do that you know gets the other up and going, don't do it if possible. If you slip (or perhaps when you slip) repent, forgive each other, and figure out why and how you slipped and change what ever you need to to avoid that pitfall next time. Remember the New Covenant is as at least as much about intent as it is about overt behavior.
<steps down from soapbox> Sorry for the rant but I feel very strongly about this.
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RE: When to get married - 5/14/2008 10:36:49 AM
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tiffywal
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I married at 21, hubby and I were no where near financial stability when we got married. With each passing year we get one step closer to that. We made it work. We went with out and made sacrifices. Your bf wants to wait to get married, but he doesn't mind pushing the boundaries physically. It sounds like the 2 of you really need to talk about yalls relationship. I can't say wait to get married because you are too young, but don't get married because you don't want to be tempted again. Marriage is about so much more than that. Pray on this.
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RE: When to get married - 5/14/2008 10:41:52 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
Your bf wants to wait to get married, but he doesn't mind pushing the boundaries physically. That is not what Amy said. She said THEY went past their boundaries and made no indication that he was OK with that.
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RE: When to get married - 5/14/2008 5:02:54 PM
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bride48
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Frankly, beginning marriage with financial problems isn't fun either. It took me too long to understand that I really can't spend money on myself the way I did when I was single. I sometimes resented my husband for not giving me roses and a gift on Valentine's Day, for not letting me buy clothes once a month, and for not ordering pizza every Friday. If you're accustomed to spending money, marrying a man with financial oblgations will be a shock. Now I'm better on board with my husband's efforts to curb spending, but it really meant adjusting my expectations.
I didn't know how materialistic I was till I got married.
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RE: When to get married - 5/14/2008 8:09:15 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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Right, but the longer one stays single, the longer one gets "set" in their own spending habits. I'm not saying being single for a long time is a sin (after all, I'm 36 and single), but I'm not in a relationship either. There is a difference between being single because you haven't found someone, and because the other person won't commit. I don't know, in a way, I feel, you, Amy, have been treated cruelly. If your bf wasn't ready to marry, then he should not have pursued you.
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RE: When to get married - 5/14/2008 8:14:57 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
IMO, it is a cruel scheme of the enemy to distort our culture so that young people do not develop enough maturity to be able to marry in their teens or at least early 20s. The cultures of the bible had this as a norm, and the text of scripture seems to assume marriage at or shortly after puberty. As it is, we (even though I am over 50 I remember it too well and so include myself from back in the day) who are not mature in the Lord enough to handle the intensity of sexual desires are at our peak libidos, (for guys that is 17-19 yo) and even if the gals are not at peak yet, it can still be extremely strong. It is like letting a 5 year old use a power saw.
So what does this godless society throw at them? Encouragement to not grow up unitl you are 25-30. Years of schooling in order to get a decent carreer. Finiancial incentives to stay single (like losing educational scholarships and grants if you get married) and the message: you can have sex and it is no big deal.
But everyone knows it is a big deal.
How does the church help this terrible situation? By saying that you should be financially stable before you get married, pushing back the time even more. Oh, and if you are desiring to be intimate with someone you are lusting and committing adultery in your heart. On top of that they heap on the condemnation that if you are frustrated it is ONLY because you are filling your mind with illicit thoughts and images, ignoring the hormonal basis of those desires.
Exactly. I think there is much biblical support for marrying in one's youth. Even if you look at how much easier it is for younger women to go through pregnancy/childbirth. I don't know, I wish christians would help turn this tide. One way would be to respect any job/career a man does honestly, rather than having an elitism and looking down on the jobs that require less school.
For those that want jobs that require more school, and don't feel they should marry until the schooling is done, should also stay out of any relationships at all.
And, no, I don't think burning is the only reason to get married. A person should be sure they want to spend the rest of their life with that person. But even just delaying that promise can be crushing.
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RE: When to get married - 5/14/2008 8:26:30 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
his initial rule was that I had to be at least 20 before we were engaged...he didn't feel that any younger was really appropriate
I do not understand this. Age 18 is a legal adult.
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RE: When to get married - 5/14/2008 10:15:42 PM
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amymelissa
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Wow...thanks guys for even more advice & replies. Just maybe as a bit of background, we are both working full time with no plans for further study. We both still live at home with our respective parents and get along well with each others families. He is currently saving (not as much now with the car payments) for a house deposit.
Dave, I've considered an accountability partner before but I wouldn't really know who to pick. And my second problem is communicating with them. It doesn't show on forums but I'm not very open and I don't really like talking about those kind of things with other people. I've opened up enough to speak frankly and 100% honestly with my bf but I've never been able to do that with other people. I'm very good at hiding and lying about what I really feel. Any ideas on how I could try and figure that out?
I agree that we are both 100% to blame for giving into temptation. The hardest thing is trying to stop. The primary love language for both of us if physical touch (I know this is no excuse) but I guess maybe that's why we keep going too far.
quote:
OneOfHisJewels
I don't know, in a way, I feel, you, Amy, have been treated cruelly. If your bf wasn't ready to marry, then he should not have pursued you.
We were both quite young when we started "going out". I was 2 months off 15 and he was 16. In the beginning we never really took it that seriously (in fact I had previously turned him down before changing my mind and subsequently asking him out a month later) but as the relationship grew and we came closer together we knew that we were going to get married someday (I was still only 15, maybe 16 at the time)
My bf read through the responses before my second post and what he mainly got out of it was that most of you were supporting his "side" (for lack of a better word). I'll have another chat with him tonight in regards to the new responses. I'm having thoughts that I should mention that we get married or break up...I know it's extreme, but I have a feeling that is what God may be telling me. Please pray.
Thanks again for your advice.
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RE: When to get married - 5/15/2008 6:47:27 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
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Amymelissa, it looks like you've got responses from both sides of the argument.
First understand that I have no problem with young marriage. I married at 19, and I don't regret it.
*However* it's not like you're going to be an "old maid" at 20.  And the truth is, your boyfriends idea to pay off the loan and save some money before marriage is a very, very wise idea. Financial problems *are* hard on a marriage, no matter how much you love each other, and if you pressure your bf into marriage, and then have struggles (as you will, most likely) he may resent you.
You can wait another year or two. It won't kill you. But you will need to set things up so that you are not alone together if you two are tempted to impurity.
Before you break up with him if he still wants to wait, consider this--if you leave him, you won't be getting married in the next 6 months anyway. Even if you run across a fine young man the very next day, it would be insanely unwise to marry him on the rebound. So you will be waiting a while anyway.
Now, otoh, if you compromise and agree to wait, perhaps he can compromise and move the wedding date to something closer than 2 years? If you go to him with respect for *his* position and a willingness to wait, he may soften a little on the timeline.
Believe me, I know exactly how you are feeling. I was in your position, having to wait, and very unwilling to wait, 6 years ago, and it's no fun.
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RE: When to get married - 5/15/2008 8:13:12 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
Dave, I've considered an accountability partner before but I wouldn't really know who to pick. And my second problem is communicating with them. It doesn't show on forums but I'm not very open and I don't really like talking about those kind of things with other people. I've opened up enough to speak frankly and 100% honestly with my bf but I've never been able to do that with other people. I'm very good at hiding and lying about what I really feel. Any ideas on how I could try and figure that out? I know exactly what you are talking about, I suspect we are much alike in that way.
I too am a very private person and want no one to know what i am thinking or feeling. Sometimes I don't even want to know myself. I also find it easier to open up in the relative anonimity of the web. What I found out was it is rooted in pride. Putting self first.
"What will they think of ME if I tell them THAT???"
And while you may now feel very open with your bf, this attitude will ultimately creep into that relationship as well. And believe me, that is deadly poison.
I found it takes a consious decision to "bite the bullet" and be honest. And keep doing that over and over again, and say to yourself "to heck with the consequences." I would like to say that it gets easier over time, and I guess it does somewhat, but it still (after a few years of doing this) is a difficult decision for me every time. It is not the huge mountain any more but it still is a pretty steep uphill battle. But that is the essence of our walk with the Lord: step by step, decision by decision, denying self by denying self. Over and over and over again.
We are being changed from glory to glory into HIS image.
Pray about who to pick for an accountability partner. My suggestion would be a young married woman from your congregation, someone who seems to portray godliness (but not legalism) in her personal walk and in her family and knows both you and your bf.
You have my prayers as well.
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RE: When to get married - 5/15/2008 12:03:00 PM
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chrystar
Posts: 50
Joined: 12/10/2005
Status: offline
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Dear amymelissa
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zug-zug
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