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Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 4:46:19 PM
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6dj8
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Who owns your school district? The tax payers in that district or some government, either local, state, or federal?
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 4:58:08 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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Define 'own' please.
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 5:02:59 PM
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Rufas2000
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Ah, a spinoff from the socialized health care thread. To me paying taxes in a school district is like holding stock in a company. Technically you "own" a piece of the company but have little say in how it is run other than to elect representatives and give input at meetings. And it is not as easy to "sell" your share as you would have to somehow stop paying local taxes or move to another location.
So technically its the taxpayers but realistically its the local school board under the auspices of the local government that makes all the decisions. The tax payers have the dual role of stockholder and consumer if they have children enrolled. As a stockholder or consumer you have a voice but the voice is fairly limited.
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 5:04:45 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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quote:
local government that makes all the decisions Except that the local government doesn't make all the decisions. The state government and federal government both make decisions for your local schools, as well.
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 5:09:56 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
Except that the local government doesn't make all the decisions.
True true, I should have said "some form of government". Many of those decisions come down to funding as well. The local government can choose not to do something but they forfeit millions by doing so. In that case it's a local decision but the state and feds hold the cash so they in actuality have control.
Point well taken though. Our standardized test in Florida, the FCAT, is a state mandate of which the local government has no say.
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 5:13:21 PM
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6dj8
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Let's say that "own" is to mean "to have control". Who has the greatest control?
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 5:16:06 PM
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kernsfamily
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The district "owns" it.
The state and federal government provide some funds...and, have some "input" as to how things are operated (especially the state dept. of ed). Our city has VERY little to do with our local school district. Two entirely separate entities.
The parents, through the PTA, at least at our school, have a HUGE "voice" in what happens at the school.
If you're NOT a parent, and wanted a "voice"?....you could always run in an election for a spot the school board.
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Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 5:29:54 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
The parents, through the PTA, at least at our school, have a HUGE "voice" in what happens at the school.
But having a "HUGE 'voice'" implies that the school can still go its own way if it chooses. I consider owning something means that you have control in what happens to it.
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 5:53:15 PM
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bzirk
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In answer to the OP, it really depends on the state. In Texas local control is more evident than where I live now -- Colorado, but local control is not as prevalent as it was years ago in Texas. No matter the state, control of school districts is becoming more centralized, i.e., controlled by the state and also the federal government to some degree. This has been accomplished by changes in funding -- well-intentioned but erroneous changes in funding supposedly designed to bring about parity, and from everything I've read over the years, parity is almost non-existent despite these changes. Whatever the well meaning reason, the bottomline is whoever holds the purse strings calls the shots. For example, in Colorado, almost all funding is through the state, and the state has a set of rules that go with the funding, so the state's wishes take precedence over the local school district's wishes -- if the school district wants to remain. There is some local funding that occurs, but the state of Colorado is continually trying to close any loopholes that allow that. The feds also control (albeit to a lesser degree than the state) by having the potential to deny a significant amount of funding if the states don't comply with requirements of funding. Significant funding does not have to be a majority or even close. If it's a mere 2% of funding, that's significant and can really affect how schools are run.
Here's what I realized after spending years working on grants and trying to help with funding issues in public schools (both in Texas and Colorado). Most parents have figured out they have little or no voice in how the school district is run. Some of them realize why and some don't. But for those who think it's run mostly according to the local taxpayers'/parents' desires, they are not aware of what's going on. Oh, some of the local people's demands drive things, but they are not the bulk of what drives things. At the end of the day, the teachers know that a governmental entity and not parents or local taxpayers are responsible for their paycheck. The governmental entity should be thought of as the taxpayers' representative, but there tends to be a disconnect.
BTW, this trend toward centralization of school contol has been faciliated in part by the rabid demand for mandatory standarized testing, which was a well intentioned, but wrong headed way of holding schools accountable.
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 6:03:04 PM
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GroupW
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bzirk-
Couple of things - while I think you're generally on point there, it's also accurate to say that parental involvement remains a key component of maintaining a good school system. The more administrators know that parents are informed, care, and will take action, the more they will respond to community concerns. School boards are usually elected positions, so this can have an effect.
More to the point though, administrators generally do not want to have to deal with pushy parents. Don't underestimate the nuisance factor! Locally, we have a significant amount of influence in how our schools are run. Not to the degree that those who pull the purse strings do, as you accurately point out. Nonetheless, we are not powerless.
FYI - you and I have similar geographic backgrounds - also "did time" in TX and now live in God's Country. We're up in one of the small mountain communities. Given that it's not a large town, I think we probably have greater potential for parental influence than what others might have. Might be a key reason for a slightly different viewpoint.
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 6:24:44 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
bzirk-
Couple of things - while I think you're generally on point there, it's also accurate to say that parental involvement remains a key component of maintaining a good school system. The more administrators know that parents are informed, care, and will take action, the more they will respond to community concerns. School boards are usually elected positions, so this can have an effect.
More to the point though, administrators generally do not want to have to deal with pushy parents. Don't underestimate the nuisance factor! Locally, we have a significant amount of influence in how our schools are run. Not to the degree that those who pull the purse strings do, as you accurately point out. Nonetheless, we are not powerless.
FYI - you and I have similar geographic backgrounds - also "did time" in TX and now live in God's Country. We're up in one of the small mountain communities. Given that it's not a large town, I think we probably have greater potential for parental influence than what others might have. Might be a key reason for a slightly different viewpoint.
We're also in a mountain community. It would be funny if we knew each other. 
BTW, I totally agree with you about parental involvement, but that's individual parents and not the district itself. Certainly, a critical mass of those can affect the outcomes of students in a district. No question.
Also, I agree that the type of school board members elected can have an effect and districts can take action on community concerns, but ultimately, the state/feds dictate most of what's done in a school district due to funding. I hope I haven't made it sound that the local district has no control. I don't think that at all. Just that they do not have the most control and it's getting less all the time.
Oh, and I've witnessed the pushy parents first hand. The scenario I've seen most often is that there are parents who demand things for their children, but they do not really want the children to hold a standard to achieve those things. Although there are parents who truly want a good standard, sadly, those parents in a lot of school districts seem not to speak up as much as the demanding ones who run to the school house to complain when their child is being held accountable or not getting their due according to the parents. Mostly it seems accountability is good for other people's kids. LOL! I base this mostly on what I've been witness to in Arlington, Texas and three different districts on the Western Slope of Colorado.
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 6:46:43 PM
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GroupW
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I'm front range, so if you're western slope we probably don't know each other. Although - if you see a bright red old Land Rover headed west toward Moab, that might be me
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“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 6:51:54 PM
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bzirk
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Unless you like to go down U.S. 40 instead of I-70, I'm probably north of you when you go through.
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 6:59:24 PM
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GroupW
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Next time, I'll head that way and waive.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 7:02:46 PM
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bzirk
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We're on the west side of Steamboat.
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 7:03:37 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
We're on the west side of Steamboat.
Lucky dude. I'm down in Evergreen. Not bad, but not Steamboat.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/9/2008 7:11:41 PM
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bzirk
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Well, I'm actually in Hayden but it's pretty too.  Evergreen is no slouch.
To get this back to topic, I do think the Steamboat district is one of the best in the state, but I don't think that's because of the district entity at all. It is totally due to there being enough parents who have high expectations. Sadly, Hayden, does not have anywhere near that mentality.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/10/2008 2:13:28 AM
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relady
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quote:
So technically its the taxpayers but realistically its the local school board under the auspices of the local government that makes all the decisions. Actually, all of the school board meetings are open and public meetings where we can have our input. Sadly, they are not very well attended. i guess people find it easier just to complain and blame someone else for the state of the schools these days.
quote:
The state government and federal government both make decisions for your local schools, as well. Only in a very very general way.
quote:
If you're NOT a parent, and wanted a "voice"?....you could always run in an election for a spot the school board. Around her you can always attend the board meetings.
No one person or entity owns a school district, but I maintain that parents and taxpayers do "own" a significiant part of the school district and can exert the level of "power" they choose to exert. Most have simply opted out, finding it easier to just demonize and blame the schools, the administrators, the state, the feds, anyone but themselves.
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/10/2008 9:04:53 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
More to the point though, administrators generally do not want to have to deal with pushy parents.
when most of the administrators are parents of students (or at least former students, whose kids once attended, and are now grown).....as well as those who serve on the school board, the "dealing with pushy parents" isn't as much of a factor.....
since those "pushy parents" (the ones demanding excellence from the schools) ARE the administrators....and are on the school board.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/10/2008 11:34:00 AM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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quote:
Who owns your school district?
democrats...I think they own them all now.
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/10/2008 2:25:15 PM
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bzirk
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It's true that school board meetings are typically not well attended, and for the most part they have never been well attended. Nothing political is well attended unless there is a very hot topic to hash out or there is a celebrity status attached, e.g., Obama. But to attend for purely civic duty? No, most people don't do that and historically haven't. So lack of attendance at a school board meeting is not where the problem lies.
The problem of inefficiency in districts is mostly how school systems are structured, which includes how they're funded. They are structued to have allegiance to the state and the feds, and teachers and adminstrators are well aware of this. Basically, they know who holds the purse strings, and it's not the taxpayers but rather a governmental entity that has a bit of a disconnect from the taxpayers in the minds of a lot of teachers and administrators. Oh, and the ACLU has hamstrung schools to a degree as well.
But as to school board meeting attendance, I'm curious how many of you posting have attended a school board meeting or more than one or two or ten. No need to answer that, but I am curious. Having said that, quite naturally I will tell you I have attended much more than ten, and only occasionally it was to give input about something I was not happy with, but no matter the reason I was there, I have always come with solutions or possible solutions (hopefully thoughtful solutions based on study of the situation) and never just complaints. I also sat on committes that were expected to give input to the school board, and that's the reason I've been at so many meetings. But what I found interesting among the parents who were not involved at that level is how they felt it was pointless to give input at these meetings or to complain in any way. It was stunning how many parents were afraid their complaints or just desire for things to be done differently would reflect badly on their children. Basically, I just ran into fear among many of these parents when it came to dealing with school administration. They seemed to feel they were going up against city hall, and after witnessing the absurd bureacracy (mostly handed down by the state and feds), I can understand why so many of them feel that way and don't do anything until things get so bad they feel they have no choice, and then most people just move away or move their kid to another school. I can understand that. I didn't move away, but I did move my kid out of the school.
Just to be clear, my opinion is that it's not necessary for most parents to have ever attended a school board meeting in order to be a supportive parent of a public school student or to have a good school district. Not at all. I hope my previous post made it clear that parents invdividually involved with their children's education are really the key, and no school board can bring that about, or should I say can bring that about easily. It just happens because like minded people tend to group together. However, I do think there are some instances where an administrator made a big difference in the integrity and achievement of a school - even when the socio/economic situation was against them. Books and movies usually record those intances they're so unusual. 
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/10/2008 3:52:04 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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quote:
Oh, and the ACLU has hamstrung schools to a degree as well.
Not to mentinon the NEA.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/10/2008 4:30:57 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
quote:
Oh, and the ACLU has hamstrung schools to a degree as well.
Not to mentinon the NEA.
Yep, that too.
All of those organizations and "city hall" serve only to make the average parent/taxpayer feel very disenfranchised, which is far from feeling they have ownership.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/10/2008 5:08:44 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1306
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
quote:
Oh, and the ACLU has hamstrung schools to a degree as well.
Not to mentinon the NEA.
how so? perhaps they have more "influence" in some places more than others.....
From the teachers at our school that I know, and we talk to, they are with the NEA, but just for the many "benefits" (such as generous health insurance supplements).....sure, the NEA may give "suggestions" or "endorsements" on certain things, but in no way "mandate" anything at all....they usually just ignore them....
As far as the ACLU is concerned.....they have an excellent "track record" in fighting for the "rights" of Christian students (when a Christian student brings forth a "complaint", they are good at seeing it through..and that goes to all students of all religious backgrounds)..., when their "right to free expression/religious expression" had been improperly "hampered" by an administator at a school, who was totally ignorant about the rights of students with regards to "religious expression"......and "represent" the student in correcting the situation.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Who Owns Your School District? - 7/10/2008 8:36:08 PM
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relady
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Kernsfamily I couldn't agree more. You nailed it.
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