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election time is here - 9/25/2008 5:54:39 PM
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chrisovery
Posts: 156
Joined: 10/6/2007
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voting time is here and i dont think that when it comes to true leaders we are looking at the right issues. a leader is not summed up in.
1. what party they are with.
2. the color of their skin.
3. tough guy attitude.
if we are looking for a leader that truly stands by america. we can all go to youtube and hear out ron paul. this
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It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
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RE: election time is here - 9/25/2008 6:06:09 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1762
Joined: 3/24/2008
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I got a big long email this afternoon because I'm still on Ron Paul's email list. All it said was how Obama, McCain, and everyone else is wrong on this buyout package - and I agree. But he didn't have any real suggestions either.
If Paul or anyone walked in with a rational Plan B that didn't take widespread misery and just ensure that we ALL get a piece, I think droves of people would flock to him. I don't hear him or anyone else with anything better, though.
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RE: election time is here - 9/25/2008 7:04:45 PM
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chrisovery
Posts: 156
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he states alot more on this through the videos on youtube.
_____________________________
It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
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RE: election time is here - 9/25/2008 11:39:22 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
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I also received that email from Ron Paul. I think his solution is that we have to let it fall. It won't be easy, but we will bounce back. The bail out is really only prolonging the inevitable. We have really been building up to this point when for over a decade, and probably longer than that. The longer we prolong it, the worse the crash will be. If we would have just let things fall at the collapse of the dot com boom in the late 90's, we would only be talking about a mild recession, but the lowered interest rates created a false real estate boom and inflated home prices. Post 9-11 rates when even lower further inflating real estate prices. Now prices are falling to what they should really be and people are stuck in mortgages they can afford. It stinks, but that's where we are and it's time we take our medicine.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: election time is here - 9/27/2008 7:53:30 PM
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chrisovery
Posts: 156
Joined: 10/6/2007
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your right. there is no other way. this bailout is going to crush us hard and bad. it is not going to be pretty here in the good old usa.
_____________________________
It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
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RE: election time is here - 9/27/2008 11:09:53 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
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From: Pottstown, PA
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Dave Ramsey had a great line about this mortgage crisis. He said, "You mean people with bad credit aren't making payments on their sub-prime mortgages? How did we not see that coming?"
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 1:56:16 AM
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FreddieD
Posts: 299
Joined: 7/23/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
Dave Ramsey had a great line about this mortgage crisis. He said, "You mean people with bad credit aren't making payments on their sub-prime mortgages? How did we not see that coming?"
Greed!
FreddieD
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 2:03:35 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1698
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreddieD
quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
Dave Ramsey had a great line about this mortgage crisis. He said, "You mean people with bad credit aren't making payments on their sub-prime mortgages? How did we not see that coming?"
Greed!
FreddieD
True enough, greed is the underlying factor. But whose greed? The corporations handing out risky loans? The greed of the people who can't afford the loans but want what they want regardless? The politicans that stay in office promising to look out for constituents while lining their own pockets? Seems we're all capable of greed. Why is it some see degrees of greed?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 2:19:36 AM
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FreddieD
Posts: 299
Joined: 7/23/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
True enough, greed is the underlying factor. But whose greed? The corporations handing out risky loans? The greed of the people who can't afford the loans but want what they want regardless? The politicans that stay in office promising to look out for constituents while lining their own pockets?
All of the above.
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Seems we're all capable of greed. Why is it some see degrees of greed?
That's not the question. The question is why can't people settle for less?
The American dream is just a dream.
FreddieD
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 2:43:11 AM
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zamdad
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quote:
That's not the question. The question is why can't people settle for less?
Why is it we always want the other guy to settle for less?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 2:49:36 AM
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FreddieD
Posts: 299
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Why is it we always want the other guy to settle for less?
Because the country won't be in the mess that its currently in.
The same reasons why there are laws.
FreddieD
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 2:57:54 AM
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zamdad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreddieD
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Why is it we always want the other guy to settle for less?
Because the country won't be in the mess that its currently in.
The same reasons why there are laws.
FreddieD
You didn't answer the question Freddie. I don't disagree that we'd all be better off if there was less greed. But, too many people don't hold themselves to the standard they want/expect from others. If you thought you were doing with less and then learned other families were doing with less than you, would you change your ways?
What's wrong with wanting to make a profit? What's wrong with wanting to improve your life? Why do we penalize success? Seems to me if we would learn to be content with what we have we wouldn't be so wrapped up in all the other things our neighbors have.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 9:14:22 AM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
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From: Pottstown, PA
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And it's not even that you have to do less, you just need to wait to do more. Save up some money and you can do incredibly more than you ever thought possible. Dave Ramsey has a saying, "Live like no one else, so one day you can live like no one else."
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 11:28:48 AM
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FreddieD
Posts: 299
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
What's wrong with wanting to make a profit? What's wrong with wanting to improve your life? Why do we penalize success?
What's wrong with living within ones means? We're not talking about success. How can success create this mess?
FreddieD
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 1:23:56 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreddieD
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
What's wrong with wanting to make a profit? What's wrong with wanting to improve your life? Why do we penalize success?
What's wrong with living within ones means? We're not talking about success. How can success create this mess?
FreddieD
What zamdad is referring to are people who are successful and continue to live within their means. For some reason, many people think that because of their success they should have to pay higher taxes, and when I say higher, I mean a greater percentage. I personally believe that is wrong. Well actually, I think taxing anyone's income is wrong and is a form of slavery, but that's another story. And as far as success creating this mess, there were people who were successful during this boom. Mainly mortgage brokers and real estate agents. They were successful because the rules were changed, but they were successful none the less, and even though the thing is collapsing, those commissions they collected during that time they don't have to give back. So it's no sweat of their backs that they made their fortunes on the stupid choices of others.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 5:47:15 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1698
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreddieD
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
What's wrong with wanting to make a profit? What's wrong with wanting to improve your life? Why do we penalize success?
What's wrong with living within ones means? We're not talking about success. How can success create this mess?
FreddieD
Freddie, I think you and I are in agreement on the idea that people should live within their means. But, what does this mean? We're all going ot have different ideas of what's within our means. Much of the problem has to do with our sin nature. Covetousness is a major driving factor. We work and we get the ability to buy things. But then we see the Jones' across the street and see that they have newer, better things. Soon, we not only want what the Jones' have, we want bigger, better.
This is all fed through our media. We consume media that tells us we not only need more, we want more and we have to have it.
My point about asking if you were willing to lower your standards if you saw that someone else had less than you is that too many of us set this standard for others that we either aren't willing to live ourselves, or that even if we do live by that standard, we're upset because others don't meet our expectations. We cannot impose what we want of others on them. Yet, it seems that government tries to do this all the time. They pit the poor and the middle class against the rich all the time. Libs and democrats seem to want to punish achievment via the tax code. This kills incentive to build business which means that honest, hardworking entrepeneurs are unable to create jobs for people willing to work.
And, no, I'm not rich. I too struggle paycheck to paycheck. I work two jobs trying to keep afloat. I don't have a bunch of toys that I'm making payments on. I would like to see the government get out of everyday things in my life and let me keep a little more of what I work for. I would like to see the government get out of the way for people who want to open businesses and let them have some room to grow and create jobs for others. I would like to see the goernment get out of being the sugar daddy for the less industrious and let the church reclaim its rightful role in discipling others. Seems to me that this has contributed to where we've gotten as we'd rather pay someone else to deal with people's problems.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 6:01:16 PM
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relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
If Paul or anyone walked in with a rational Plan B that didn't take widespread misery and just ensure that we ALL get a piece, I think droves of people would flock to him. I don't hear him or anyone else with anything better, though. Amen.
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 9:49:30 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
If Paul or anyone walked in with a rational Plan B that didn't take widespread misery and just ensure that we ALL get a piece, I think droves of people would flock to him. I don't hear him or anyone else with anything better, though. Amen.
Because there is no plan B. Nothing can prevent the inevitable, only prolong it and by prolonging it, it will be worse when it happens.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: election time is here - 9/28/2008 10:56:53 PM
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FreddieD
Posts: 299
Joined: 7/23/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Freddie, I think you and I are in agreement on the idea that people should live within their means. But, what does this mean? We're all going ot have different ideas of what's within our means. Much of the problem has to do with our sin nature. Covetousness is a major driving factor. We work and we get the ability to buy things. But then we see the Jones' across the street and see that they have newer, better things. Soon, we not only want what the Jones' have, we want bigger, better.
The Dames don’t seem to have a problem with it. They have lowered their expectations and it works, but I guess the road to happiness is a good swift kick in the butt.
As you say if the people can’t control themselves than the only thing that remains is government regulations, because someone is going to feel the pinch of this crises and it maybe the innocent. It should be the abusers of credit.
It has created a difficult problem for any leader from any party to deal with. They know that they may be the one to deliver that “swift kick in the butt”, but if government were to regulate before hand there maybe no crises now.
And, yes I have lowered my expectations and struggle presently as you do.
FreddieD
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RE: election time is here - 9/29/2008 12:48:31 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1698
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
As you say if the people can’t control themselves than the only thing that remains is government regulations, because someone is going to feel the pinch of this crises and it maybe the innocent. It should be the abusers of credit.
Again, I agree. It seems to me, however, that government regualtions were put into place mandating lenders to extend credit to people who may not be credit worthy. Of course, this was done in the name of racial equality because people were screaming they couldn't get a loan because the bankers are all racist. Government regulation has taken character out of the equation and made it so that anyone can get a loan.
Seems to me the answer is to get government out of the way and let businessmen do business the way business is supposed to be done. If there are those who can't qualify for loans, then let them work on character change to bring their qualifications up. Not scream discrimination.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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