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um_lilly -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/9/2007 11:08:33 PM)

Okay...

I am dyslexic. I really struggled through school with being able to focus on the images seen and then putting them on paper correctly. This has been a HUGE issue for me in the workplace at times because I balance a checkbook daily, run payroll, do all types of other reports, do tax deposits, and alot of writing. I visualize what I am writing, but I can't get it all on paper correctly. This can cause huge problems in a million dollar company when you are trying to do your monthly balance sheet at the end of the month. Plus, when I try to write something, like I do in these post, my sentence structure is broken up. It's almost like I flip from one subject to another.

Personally, I had no other choice but to go on some mild medication that helps trigger that part of my brain to help me be more efficient at work. I'm not ashamed of it at all. And by me taking this medication, I don't why the holy spirit would not dwell in me. There is just an issue in a part of my brain that just doesn't click. It has to be stimulated to help me focus better.



Hischild1994 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/9/2007 11:11:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: um_lilly

Okay...

I am dyslexic. I really struggled through school with being able to focus on the images seen and then putting them on paper correctly. This has been a HUGE issue for me in the workplace at times because I balance a checkbook daily, run payroll, do all types of other reports, do tax deposits, and alot of writing. I visualize what I am writing, but I can't get it all on paper correctly. This can cause huge problems in a million dollar company when you are trying to do your monthly balance sheet at the end of the month.

So, I had no other choice but to go on some mild medication that helps trigger that part of my brain to help me be more efficient at work. I'm not ashamed of it at all. And by me taking this medication, I don't why the holy spirit would not dwell in me. There is just an issue in a part of my brain that just doesn't click. It has to be stimulated to help me focus better.


I didn't know there was medication available for dyslexia. That's wonderful! My dd is dysgraphic. Do you know if there is a medication that would help that or if a medication for dyslexia would help it?



um_lilly -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/9/2007 11:14:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hischild1994

quote:

ORIGINAL: um_lilly

Okay...

I am dyslexic. I really struggled through school with being able to focus on the images seen and then putting them on paper correctly. This has been a HUGE issue for me in the workplace at times because I balance a checkbook daily, run payroll, do all types of other reports, do tax deposits, and alot of writing. I visualize what I am writing, but I can't get it all on paper correctly. This can cause huge problems in a million dollar company when you are trying to do your monthly balance sheet at the end of the month.

So, I had no other choice but to go on some mild medication that helps trigger that part of my brain to help me be more efficient at work. I'm not ashamed of it at all. And by me taking this medication, I don't why the holy spirit would not dwell in me. There is just an issue in a part of my brain that just doesn't click. It has to be stimulated to help me focus better.


I didn't know there was medication available for dyslexia. That's wonderful! My dd is dysgraphic. Do you know if there is a medication that would help that or if a medication for dyslexia would help it?


I was put on an ADD medication called Concerta. I take the lowest dose of 18 mg during the work week with off days on the weekends and holidays. I had a specialist RX this for me to help me better. And it has helped me so much more. I still have issues writing my numbers down backwards (for instance I see an 8 as a 3 and a 5 as a 9), but it's helped alot.



um_lilly -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/9/2007 11:18:51 PM)

Dysgraphic....does that mean your child has issues with co-ordination and dyslexia? I now remember something similiar to that.



Hischild1994 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/9/2007 11:22:13 PM)

Kind of hard for me to explain it. Here is a link: Dysgraphia

Even most educators don't know what it is.

I found out that she had it when I was homeschooling her. She was having problems writing words and her handwriting was horrible. I was new here and posted in the homeschooling forum about it. The first person to respond was a person who worked with LD kids. He told me about dysgraphia and I had her tested.

She seems to be able to work with it well unless she is in a hurry or nervous (like on a test).



FoxInSox -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/10/2007 12:08:04 AM)

I know what dysgraphia is! [:D]

Maybe that's because I'm a special educator, not general? LOL.



womaninchrist -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/10/2007 2:03:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: um_lilly
Personally, I had no other choice but to go on some mild medication that helps trigger that part of my brain to help me be more efficient at work. I'm not ashamed of it at all. And by me taking this medication, I don't why the holy spirit would not dwell in me. There is just an issue in a part of my brain that just doesn't click. It has to be stimulated to help me focus better.


You know, that many claim we who have issues of any sort with brain health "can't be saved" or that our illnesses (or seeking medical treatment for them) are some sort of "proof" of any of various problems with sins or demons is just something that's always baffled me - and primarily because the people who make such claims make them ONLY about brain-based illnesses, esp. anything that affects thought processes or emotional well-being. I can't see that distinction as anything other than very blatant hypocrisy. If my mental health is "proof" of my salvation status or of sins or demons, why isn't that also true of my diabetes or asthma (outside a few healing ministries, few people seem to make the same accusations for physical illnesses)? I don't think I'll ever figure out why one type of illness is proof of spiritual problems, sins or demons but the other type of illness isn't - not logically or Biblically.



agapetos -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/10/2007 4:31:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FoxInSox

I know what dysgraphia is! [:D]

Maybe that's because I'm a special educator, not general? LOL.
I know too ~ and I'm not a mother or in the education system and I don't have it either[:D]



Hischild1994 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/10/2007 10:12:00 AM)

Michele- I guess I'm not too suprised that you know what dysgraphia is but it is still interesting. When my dd was diagnosed, I knew more than the special ed teacher who did the tests. The teacher, my dd and I had to learn together.

agapetos- I am suprised that you know what dysgraphia is. Most people outside of the educational system don't really know anything about it and many of them haven't even heard of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: womaninchrist

quote:

ORIGINAL: um_lilly
Personally, I had no other choice but to go on some mild medication that helps trigger that part of my brain to help me be more efficient at work. I'm not ashamed of it at all. And by me taking this medication, I don't why the holy spirit would not dwell in me. There is just an issue in a part of my brain that just doesn't click. It has to be stimulated to help me focus better.


You know, that many claim we who have issues of any sort with brain health "can't be saved" or that our illnesses (or seeking medical treatment for them) are some sort of "proof" of any of various problems with sins or demons is just something that's always baffled me - and primarily because the people who make such claims make them ONLY about brain-based illnesses, esp. anything that affects thought processes or emotional well-being. I can't see that distinction as anything other than very blatant hypocrisy. If my mental health is "proof" of my salvation status or of sins or demons, why isn't that also true of my diabetes or asthma (outside a few healing ministries, few people seem to make the same accusations for physical illnesses)? I don't think I'll ever figure out why one type of illness is proof of spiritual problems, sins or demons but the other type of illness isn't - not logically or Biblically.


I've often wondered if people feel this way about those with Alzheimer's or other forms of dementia?



stateofgrace -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/10/2007 10:27:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: womaninchrist

quote:

ORIGINAL: um_lilly
Personally, I had no other choice but to go on some mild medication that helps trigger that part of my brain to help me be more efficient at work. I'm not ashamed of it at all. And by me taking this medication, I don't why the holy spirit would not dwell in me. There is just an issue in a part of my brain that just doesn't click. It has to be stimulated to help me focus better.


You know, that many claim we who have issues of any sort with brain health "can't be saved" or that our illnesses (or seeking medical treatment for them) are some sort of "proof" of any of various problems with sins or demons is just something that's always baffled me - and primarily because the people who make such claims make them ONLY about brain-based illnesses, esp. anything that affects thought processes or emotional well-being. I can't see that distinction as anything other than very blatant hypocrisy. If my mental health is "proof" of my salvation status or of sins or demons, why isn't that also true of my diabetes or asthma (outside a few healing ministries, few people seem to make the same accusations for physical illnesses)? I don't think I'll ever figure out why one type of illness is proof of spiritual problems, sins or demons but the other type of illness isn't - not logically or Biblically.


[sm=eek.gif][sm=eek.gif][sm=eek.gif]

I suppose y'all saw the recent threads around here (I think they were in Theology - Morality and Ethics). I was so angry after reading them that I was GLAD that they had been closed already, else I would have potentially behaved in a very unChristian manner.

I wanted to ask those who think they know it all...is my daughter not saved, or does she not really have Bipolar Disorder. Because apparently according to them it's either one or the other. Not that any of them actually know her or anything.

Or maybe I would have gone on a tear pulling up research links to explain that many so-called "mental illnesses" involve physical problems in the brain, and that there is a genetic link for many of them.



Hischild1994 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/10/2007 11:01:22 AM)

I wonder why people in those threads won't come over here and make those same statements? When the threads are closed, people are given links to these threads.



womaninchrist -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/10/2007 11:54:42 AM)

I'll be honest, I'm very selective in what forum areas (or sites) I visit because of some of what gets said about mental health and those who have such conditions...

Often the accusation that mental health matters (or even generic brain health matters including stuff like seizure disorders) are "proof" of sin, demons or our salvation status is based on a small set of verses taken very out of context and made to apply generally (rather than to the specific situations referenced) and/or these formulas where "condition A = Demon set B and Sin set C" (as in the only necessary proof of those demons and sins if the simple fact you've been diagnosed with whatever illness). There are actually books put out by healing ministries that teach how to "identify a person's sins and demons" based on their illness(es). For example, there's the International Association of Healing Rooms which sells a book about ministering to the sick (that's basically the guide to how to minister in a Healing Room) that's nothing but page after page after page of that formula.

Aren't we supposed to be identifying a person's spiritual condition(s) based on direct observation and/or what the Holy Spirit reveals? Isn't the Lord the only one who REALLY knows whether someone is saved or not? Aren't we not supposed to be passing judgement on others as to their salvation status? Or what about the fact that illness is in the world because sin is in the world? What in that Biblical bit states or even implies that if an individual is sick they MUST be in sin or demonically possessed or oppressed?

Even sticking with the parts of the Bible that are used for justification of the idea that those who have mental or other brain-based illnesses don't speak of diagnoses but of specific behaviors. This leads me to believe that there's more to discerning sin or demonic activity than "oh, you have bipolar (or depression or schizophrenia or a seizure disorder or...)" but that we need to know more about how they behave. Worth mention, it's clearly more than "seeing things that aren't there" or having intense moods. There's enough recorded about the lives and visions of quite a few people in the Bible to strongly suspect any of several mental illnesses - yet these people I have in mind are such people as the Prophets and David (all recognized as men of God).

Or what about PTSD? Often that's not a sin the sufferer committed but a scar from a sin someone else committed where the person who suffers PTSD was a victim or witness, though it can SOMETIMES lead to issues with anger or bitterness on the part of the sufferer (so I won't say it never involves sin or temptation to sin on the part of the sufferer).

I figure that these accusations and so on are man attempting yet again to make the Lord's wisdom make sense to our minds which will never fully understand the Lord's wisdom and thus often miss or misinterpret the important points... This is one thing that's damaging the witness of the church. I know a LOT of people who've become non-churchgoers, atheist or "anti-christian" quite specifically because of what was done to them or to someone they know on the basis of presumptions made about a mental illness.



agapetos -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/10/2007 12:34:06 PM)

quote:

I'll be honest, I'm very selective in what forum areas (or sites) I visit because of some of what gets said about mental health and those who have such conditions...
So am I ~ which explains why I didn't see those threads.

Sometimes I simply don't care what other people think and feel about others who have bipolar/mental health problems. It's not for them to tell me whether I'm saved or not or should or shouldn't be taking medication. All those are a matter between me and God.

I won't tell someone that they should or shouldn't take medication, but I will tell them to look into it because used properly, it can help.



MyCatSmokey2006 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/10/2007 11:20:30 PM)

What's bad is that some churches reject people with mental illnesses, believing them to be possessed by the demons or involved in some sin that they haven't repented of. I ought to know because that's what happened to me. As soon as a church found out that I was mentally ill, then they either would:

1. Try to deliver me from demons and didn't like it when I left.
2. Refuse to let me start a support group for mentally ill people and encouraged me to drop my membership.
3. Made me feel unwelcome in their church just by their condemning attitudes after going through the "Steps to freedom" ritual and
4. Warned me that I would pick up Catholic and Lutheran demons if I attended a Catholic wedding. [:D]



Hischild1994 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/11/2007 12:24:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
4. Warned me that I would pick up Catholic and Lutheran demons if I attended a Catholic wedding. [:D]


I think you cured me! Less than a year before I was diagnosed with bipolar I had been to a wedding with a Lutheran bride (my husband's niece) and a Catholic groom. Not only did I go to it, I participated in it by reading Scripture.

or......

It could be the fact that my dad grew up Lutheran and my husband grew up Catholic.

*smacks forehead*
Why didn't I see that is the root of my illness!

Thanks Melissa! You've shown me the light! [:D]



um_lilly -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/11/2007 9:19:52 AM)

Mine is a learning disability. I hardly think that I am filled with demonic possession just because I write things backwards and have horrible sentence structure and other issues.
I'd be willing to bet that alot of people were put to death during the salem trials because they where actually mentally ill.
Anyway, I have sympathy for people who have problems like this. When a medical scans show that a part of your brain is not functioning correctly, it's hard to believe that someone would call that possession.



womaninchrist -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/11/2007 12:05:43 PM)

It's not as commonly stated for learning disabilities, but it does happen once in a while (and yeah, that floors me too).

Melissa, I've hear even more bizarre ideas about what demons and/or sins might be at the root of my bipolar. I think the worst was the time I was told I needed to "repent of my ethnicity". Um, if the Lord placed me into a certain ethnicity, why would I need to repent of that? Did He make a mistake by making me of that ethnicity? If so, was it that mistake of the Lord's that made me have bipolar? I thought the Lord didn't make mistakes...

But yeah, I've been booted from a church for admitting to my illness. Apparently the diagnosis alone is proof of "moral unfitness".



stateofgrace -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/11/2007 4:27:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: um_lilly

Mine is a learning disability. I hardly think that I am filled with demonic possession just because I write things backwards



Ever heard of backward masking? Folks thought that satan inserted backward messages into popular songs...



sreno7 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/16/2007 1:08:06 AM)

They used to believe that epilepsy was caused by demon possession. I know that for years I didnt tell anyone in the church I had clinical depression, I thought it wasn't "christian" I sure wouldn't' tell them my son was on Ritalin. then we had a neighbourhood child start to come to church alone. He would get up early before his mom and come right over and wreak havoc, he even locked himself in a cupboard and wouldn't come out, the janitor had to be called to unlock it. This boy had severe ADHD and was only medicated while at school. He had no friends due to his bizarre behaviour.
Then two young woman got saved in our church and abruptly stopped their anti depressants with very bad results. The church became more open to neurobiological disorders. If someone wanted to stop their meds they were advised to go to talk to their doctor first.



MrsTracy72 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/27/2007 3:29:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hischild1994

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
4. Warned me that I would pick up Catholic and Lutheran demons if I attended a Catholic wedding. [:D]


I think you cured me! Less than a year before I was diagnosed with bipolar I had been to a wedding with a Lutheran bride (my husband's niece) and a Catholic groom. Not only did I go to it, I participated in it by reading Scripture.

or......

It could be the fact that my dad grew up Lutheran and my husband grew up Catholic.

*smacks forehead*
Why didn't I see that is the root of my illness!

Thanks Melissa! You've shown me the light! [:D]


Uh OH, Umm, I am Lutheran, had a short time with a Catholic church (I did that for my husband)
back to Lutheran but a different synod (does that mean different demons?) Then back a new Lutheran Church (my first synod) I'm going down. LOL [:D]

I am just kidding you guys. I think this is only the first or second time I posted here, but this is an issue for me.

But seriously my son has ADHD and he has seen a psychologist, his pediatrician, a psychitrist, and now a new psychologist. They all had the same diagnosis but my ex husband still refuses to acknowledge it. He wants me to keep all references of my son's condition and medication out of school files. That kind of thinking can be down and outright dangerous. It still amazes me thought the lengths that people go to so that they can live in denial.



Hischild1994 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/27/2007 6:28:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsTracy72

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hischild1994

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
4. Warned me that I would pick up Catholic and Lutheran demons if I attended a Catholic wedding. [:D]


I think you cured me! Less than a year before I was diagnosed with bipolar I had been to a wedding with a Lutheran bride (my husband's niece) and a Catholic groom. Not only did I go to it, I participated in it by reading Scripture.

or......

It could be the fact that my dad grew up Lutheran and my husband grew up Catholic.

*smacks forehead*
Why didn't I see that is the root of my illness!

Thanks Melissa! You've shown me the light! [:D]


Uh OH, Umm, I am Lutheran, had a short time with a Catholic church (I did that for my husband)
back to Lutheran but a different synod (does that mean different demons?) Then back a new Lutheran Church (my first synod) I'm going down. LOL [:D]

I am just kidding you guys. I think this is only the first or second time I posted here, but this is an issue for me.

But seriously my son has ADHD and he has seen a psychologist, his pediatrician, a psychitrist, and now a new psychologist. They all had the same diagnosis but my ex husband still refuses to acknowledge it. He wants me to keep all references of my son's condition and medication out of school files. That kind of thinking can be down and outright dangerous. It still amazes me thought the lengths that people go to so that they can live in denial.


My husband can get that way about our daughter. It's hard to get them to understand that things like ADHD are real.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I'm having a hard time right now. For those who've been following my thread LINK HERE about my job, I'm sure you can understand somewhat of what I'm feeling right now. I've been crying about it quite a bit today.

Or maybe it's just that Lutheran/Catholic thing. [;)]



MrsTracy72 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/27/2007 9:35:58 PM)

Roberta, I just read your job situation and replied there. I am sorry you have been so down. I have been that way for quite some time and it is really hard to get back up. But I would at least go and look at that nursing home before you make a decision. You never know what you might be missing.



Hischild1994 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (7/28/2007 8:25:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsTracy72

Roberta, I just read your job situation and replied there. I am sorry you have been so down. I have been that way for quite some time and it is really hard to get back up. But I would at least go and look at that nursing home before you make a decision. You never know what you might be missing.


I've been there for 5 different interviews this week. I've also been there other times to take a friend to visit her friends. It is a nice place.

ggrrrrr.... I posted my other post in the wrong thread. My bad.

I'm going to post my other post over there.



WillowBlue -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (8/7/2007 3:54:21 AM)

I've heard the whole "bipolar=demon possesion excuse." I've also heard that the science of psychology is satan-induced. Well, that makes a lot of sense, seeing as how when I began praying for a way out, I was able to seek counciling and medication that lessened my symptoms and I began loving life and God again. So yeah...guess that makes me anti-Christian, huh?



Hischild1994 -> RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread (8/7/2007 9:03:19 AM)

Hi WillowBlue and welcome!

Feel free also to join us in the other Mental Health thread for encouragement..... this one might get yucky at times. [;)]



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