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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 11/23/2006 11:10:04 PM
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Godlovesrns
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Sorry, I drifted off topic, too. I responded to some posts before finishing reading the entire thread. 
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 11/24/2006 10:27:20 AM
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bob97
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quote:
Sadly, your post is very true.
Hi Godlovesrns,
Thanks for your testimony; it’s something more people need to hear.
I was thinking about another couple who were Catholic, as I read your post. They quit the RCC because of the scandal regarding sexual abuse from priests. Now they are unchurched because they didn’t have Christ to bring them back.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 11/24/2006 12:54:37 PM
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Godlovesrns
Posts: 100
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Sadly, your post is very true.
Hi Godlovesrns,
Thanks for your testimony; it’s something more people need to hear.
I was thinking about another couple who were Catholic, as I read your post. They quit the RCC because of the scandal regarding sexual abuse from priests. Now they are unchurched because they didn’t have Christ to bring them back.
Bob
That is also because they are taught at a very young age that the Catholic Church is the one, true Church. Most Catholics who leave don't look elsewhere because they feel any other church is inferior and not the original church started by Jesus. My father told me I would go to hell because I was born into the true Church and turned my back. Protestants don't know any better so they won't be punished as harshly as I will. Fortunately, I left because I had become a Christian and found myself feeling so empty after Catholic Mass. I so wanted to learn about Jesus and to be excited about Him. There just wasn't any excitement there. Only ceremony, eloquently read essays and often some obviously gay priests. The Catholic Church has tried desperately to stay afloat, mostly by trying to imitate the Protestant churches but they only imitate them in appearance, ie, taking all of the statues out of their churches and changing the Mass to English. What they end up having then are bare churches and services without substance.
It is sad.
Sorry to get off topic again. It is just a very emotional topic for me. I have a lot of fond memories of growing up Catholic but also some very painful memories(those would be concerning the wrath of the nuns). I have often wondered if I hadn't been raised in the Catholic Church, would I have had such a love for Jesus all of my life? But at the same time, it has made it difficult for me to make the transition to Protestantism. It took many years to feel comfortable in a non-denominational church, to "fellowship" with other believers and to really understand the importance of fellowship, to pray out loud and often, and to openly speak about Jesus apart from a church service. And now that I finally have accomplished these things I am struggling with truly studying and understanding Scripture. It takes discipline,which is hard for me because the Catholic Church didn't teach any of these things. The focus seemed to be more on the Church and it's Catechism. That was indoctrinated in me as a young child. After being saved and starting all over, it is much harder and takes a lot of self-discipline, yet so much more gratifying, so much closer to God. And once again, I don't mean to offend any Catholics here. If you have peace about staying in the Catholic Church that is fine. I was never at peace once I was saved until I left the Church completely. I also didn't attend Church for many years. It took that long to finally make my choice and stand by my decision for Christ.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 11/24/2006 11:11:42 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gospelintruth
Just to give you reasons for Icon's and images the Church contained throughout the ages.
The earliest Churches were synagogues and the Christians there were Jewish.
They did not use icons, statues, or paintings.
They used the written word. Those that could not read listened in their native tongue while others read.
Now these items you list were used later on, but how they got there is another thing altogether.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 11/26/2006 12:11:46 AM
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gospelintruth
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quote:
The earliest Churches were synagogues and the Christians there were Jewish.
They did not use icons, statues, or paintings.
They used the written word. Those that could not read listened in their native tongue while others read.
Now these items you list were used later on, but how they got there is another thing altogether.
I'm a little rusty on the date this was approved, but I believe it was the 4rth or 5th century. I do not agree with the use of Icons myself, but at the same time, I do enjoy walking into a church with hundreds of pictures on the walls as this reminds me of the glorious Saints who died in the past. But historically speaking, I understand this was to aid those who could not read. Music or chanting was the method of memorizing passages. I've aksed a well respected church father in the Orthodox why they used Icons, and his answer was that the use of Icons helped preserve the memory of our fallen (died) Saints. And when you consider the Church has existed for over 2000 years, that's a great deal of names to remember. I will say this though. The Catholic Church does tend to take a more, let's just say, less than accepted approach to certain images, specifically the virgin Mary; the Orthodox Church does not accept this practice. I'd probably say that Icons are the reason why I haven't joined the Orthodox Church yet. I probably shouldn't say this, but it's their history that I'm attracted to. When you consider the fact that for the first 1500 years of Church history, there was only Catholic and Orthodox. No protestants existed until the 15th century. So were all those sent to hell prior to that? I wouldn't have the courage to say yes. I believe all Churches (or rather most) are useful for spreading "seeds" of Christ. I don't hold to the "My Church" or all are banished to hell fire attitude, as most do.
But, after what I've seen, the Greek Orthodox Church contains some of the most serious and dedicated Christians I've ever seen. The ones I've met live Christianity on a daily basis, and not just on Sunday. Most are poor at the Church I visited, but still have many missionaries that feed the hungry, and clothe the poor; most of these are Russian Jews. That's what bothers me about most protestant churches in my state. Most spend all their money on building and youth programs. Those things are important, but not as important as taking care of physical needs out of brotherly love. As of now, I'm still Protestant.
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For to live is Christ, but to die is gain.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 11/27/2006 2:04:04 AM
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aldrine
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whether catholic church is in the prophecy or not, we should not give in to the devil and therefore stop it from happening.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 11/27/2006 4:09:31 PM
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gospelintruth
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Catholic Church is not in prophecy. But I believe Islam and Christianity is.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 11/27/2006 8:26:34 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gospelintruth
Catholic Church is not in prophecy.
You meant to say:
The Catholic Church is not in prophecy in my opinion.
As there are overcomers in the Roman Catholic Church: the Catholic Church is in prophecy.
As there are those in the Roman Catholic Church who have thrown out demons in the name of the Lord yet He does not know them and they go to Hell: the Catholic Church is in prophecy.
As there are remnants of the mother-son worship system born in Babylon in the Roman Catholic Church: the Catholic Church is in prophecy -
- in my opinion.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 11/27/2006 10:08:03 PM
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Aleric
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I'm on the sidelines for this topic, with good reason.
I am Protestant myself, non-denominational. Religion gets in the way in my eyes. Everyday I pray for God to give me guidence and thats the way I like it.
Thats not my good reason for being on the sidelines however. Well, it is and it isnt.
None of us know Gods plan. God can use any one of us anyway he sees fit. Its all for the greater good.
I see the Catholic Church set in tradition so much so that to a large degree tradition often gets in the way of the Holy Spirit.
Not to all Catholics though.
Traditionaly only to those Catholics who are outside of the influence of God. In other words, only to those people who use it as a safety net. The Catholic Church allows this. It is decieving to a point. Catholics can fall under the belief that another man praying to God for them can be their salvation, or put their faith in the Church and not in God. Leaving them free to spend the majority of their lives sinning, or working to gain access into Heaven.
That in no way shape or form means all Catholics are void of the Holy Spirit and fall prey to this form of tradition.
Quite a few of them do recieve the Holy Spirit and long to be with Jesus.
Traditionaly Evangelist can do the same thing. Through their children or work or any number of things incorperated into their lives by the Church. Evangelist plan to save the world through the word of God, its a good plan but Jesus saves, we dont.
It's the same kind of false hope given by the Catholic Church in a different format. Both of them in one form or another put the Church before God.
I would like to point out that not everyone in both denominations do this. It is important to see that they both have similarities we dont want to notice.
Everyone wants to be united under God, we just let tradition get in the way. Its funny when you think about it.
We all have our own ways of getting closer to God through tradition and now man has let that tradition get in the way of a common goal.
It could just as easily be the Catholic Church as it could Evangelist.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 11/28/2006 4:25:25 PM
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gospelintruth
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quote:
You meant to say:
The Catholic Church is not in prophecy in my opinion.
As there are overcomers in the Roman Catholic Church: the Catholic Church is in prophecy.
As there are those in the Roman Catholic Church who have thrown out demons in the name of the Lord yet He does not know them and they go to Hell: the Catholic Church is in prophecy.
As there are remnants of the mother-son worship system born in Babylon in the Roman Catholic Church: the Catholic Church is in prophecy -
- in my opinion.
I deeply apologize for the way I worded that. After reading my post, it sounds as though my statement makes a hidden insult that the Catholic Church are not "Christians". To all Catholics, please forgive my un-intended statement if I have ofended anyone. I love the Roman Catholic Church as I do all Churches. There are some that have me rolling my eyes a bit, but the Holy Catholic Church I do not question. I admire Pope Benedict for his bravery and faith in Christ. He did not back down even at the sight of physical threat. I've yet to see a Protestant member make such a challenge and even travel to the enemies country land and show no public fear of the enemy. Now I do not exclude Protestant maryters over seas in areas like Pakistan, Africa, Idia, and other places. I mean no offense to them or any other Protestant. I simply admire the boldness and bravery of a man who spoke the truth about Islam and has not backed down. It's my hope and desire that the Christian Catholics and Orthodox do in fact reunite under one Church, as it once was, and as God intended. There differences are sharp, but mainly (as far as I can tell) center around the Papacy itself. At any rate, perhaps oneday Protestants will set down their college certificates and arrogant attitudes and try uniting. I for one do not see that happening because to many untrained Bible readers read something out of context and cause far to many divisions, even among themselves.
What I meant to say was that the Catholic Church is not in prophesy regarding the "Beast with seven heads" as some ignorantly apply. We know that Revelation speaks of the Beast burning the Harlot, and if Rome is the Beast and the Church is the Harlot (Catholic Church that is), then how does Rome burn herself? Therefore, that is what I meant when I said that Catholic Church is not in prophesy.
They are in prophesy from the view point of the Church, in that they may / will suffer with any Christian. God bless us all, and thanks for correcting me "Sinner-Saint". God bless and peace.
Joseph
_____________________________
For to live is Christ, but to die is gain.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 1/23/2007 11:00:12 AM
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GracieRuth
Posts: 69
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quote:
I was thinking about another couple who were Catholic, as I read your post. They quit the RCC because of the scandal regarding sexual abuse from priests. Now they are unchurched because they didn’t have Christ to bring them back.
Bob
They'll be back. They are angry, and need time to forgive. They've forgotten that the church is for sinners -- perfect people need not apply . That's why we need Jesus.
_____________________________
Grace
In things essential, unity. In things not essential, diversity. And in all things, charity.
St. Augustine
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 1/23/2007 11:16:19 AM
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GracieRuth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gospelintruth
I'm a little rusty on the date this was approved, but I believe it was the 4rth or 5th century.
It has a longer history than that. The Early Church from the beginning used art. You will find images carved into the catecombs, some symbolic such as the fish or the phoenix, some representational. Mosaics developed very early. Icons in the East were very popular. It was only AFTER the influence of Islam that Christians began questioning the use of inspirational art in the church, resulting in the Inconoclastic Crisis. And yes, the west enjoys three dimensional art as well as the two dimensional art of the east, although it functions the same.
quote:
I do not agree with the use of Icons myself, but at the same time, I do enjoy walking into a church with hundreds of pictures on the walls as this reminds me of the glorious Saints who died in the past. But historically speaking, I understand this was to aid those who could not read. Music or chanting was the method of memorizing passages. I've aksed a well respected church father in the Orthodox why they used Icons, and his answer was that the use of Icons helped preserve the memory of our fallen (died) Saints. And when you consider the Church has existed for over 2000 years, that's a great deal of names to remember. That's part of it, of course. However, it also affects people differently. I'm the sort of person that I'm usually all inside my head, thinking about ideas. I walk around not noticing stuff, forgetting where I place my keys, or that I've forgotten my coat, or not noticing that someone has just spoken to me. The beauty of art shocks me out of that, as does music. Suddenly my whole person is involved in reverence, and my silly intellectualism goes out the window.
quote:
As of now, I'm still Protestant. Ah, but the bug is under the rug. The cat is out of the bag. The goose is on the loose. The writing is on the wall. LOL I've seen it too many times. I don't know how long your journey will take, but it has already begun. Enjoy it. :D
_____________________________
Grace
In things essential, unity. In things not essential, diversity. And in all things, charity.
St. Augustine
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 1/23/2007 11:22:24 AM
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GracieRuth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint
The earliest Churches were synagogues and the Christians there were Jewish.
They did not use icons, statues, or paintings. You do realize that by 70/80 AD all this had changed? True, at first they thought of themselves a part of Judaism, but it didn't take long for them to completely extricate themselves, and with the destruction of the Temple, the Church quickly became gentile.
_____________________________
Grace
In things essential, unity. In things not essential, diversity. And in all things, charity.
St. Augustine
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 1/23/2007 11:23:42 AM
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GracieRuth
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Big Bird is the Anti-Christ
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Grace
In things essential, unity. In things not essential, diversity. And in all things, charity.
St. Augustine
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 2/13/2007 1:41:44 AM
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schaetzel
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
There are two camps on this subject... those who say the Church is in prophecy in a good light and those who say it is in a bad light.
What is your support for your stance?
How do you translate the Catholic church as it is reflected in prophecy?
Speaking as a practicing Roman Catholic, I'll add my own thoughts which tend to see the future of Christianity in both ways.
First and foremost, let me quantify, that the idea of pinpointing the final great apostasy to one particular denomination is a fallacy. Those who do this fail to understand both the nature of Christ's Church and the prophesied great apostasy itself. If only we could pinpoint the prophesied antichurch to a particular denomination. It would make things so much more simple for us. We could tell our children just to avoid this denomination or that, and never have to worry about the Antichrist getting the best of us. Unfortunately, it's not that simple.
The official 'Catechism of the Catholic Church' makes two things very clear about the end times and the Church. The first is that a great apostasy will come to deceive the world. The second is that during the final end times, the Roman Catholic Church will be a whole lot smaller than it is today (currently at 1.2 billion members). Upon Pope Benedict XVI's recent election to the throne of St. Peter, he cautioned the Catholic faithful to prepare themselves for a much smaller Church than what they were used to. It would appear that Pope Benedict has seen the signs of the times, and understands that in order for Catholicism to remain faithful to the gospel, certain reforms must be enacted that will be 'politically incorrect' and probably disaffect the multitudes.
In recent decades the Catholic Church has fallen prey to the same forces that have negatively effected some mainline Protestant denominations too. This is especially evident in western nations, like the United States. The forces I refer to are what Pope Benedict (as Cardinal Ratzinger) called the "Tyranny of Relativism." In places like America, and other western nations, a large number of both Catholic and Protestant clergy have embraced the politically correct mentality of relativist thinking where Christian morality is simply a matter of one's point of view. This has allowed for the rise of sexual immorality in the churches, which include in some cases the casual acceptance of infanticide (abortion on demand) and gay-marriage. In some cases, the 'tyranny of relativism' has completely taken over some Protestant denominations, to the point where faithful and orthodox Protestants feel they have no choice but to leave the denominations of their youth for greener pastures in more conservative Evangelical churches. In the Catholic Church, however, the split between orthodox and relativist is about 50/50. One would think this would lead to a major schism, and indeed it might, but the Catholic Church has one element not common to other churches, and that is the pope. The current pope (as well as the last pope) and the college of cardinals (popes in waiting) have made it very clear that the future direction of the Roman Catholic Church is conservative and traditional. In other words, if you want to know what the future Roman Catholic Church will look like, then look to the past. A revival of traditionalism is taking place in the Catholic Church, starting from the laity and working it's way up to the Vatican. In other words, it's a grassroots effort. Pope Benedict (like John Paul II) is in full agreement with this traditionalist trend, and seeks to coddle it within the framework of the Second Vatican Council.
There is perhaps nothing that hacks off a relativist more than traditionalism, and that is the unstoppable direction the Catholic Church is headed. This is sure to infuriate about 50% of Catholics (lay and clergy) in the United States, who tend to lean toward the very non-catholic relativist mindset. Already we're seeing the effects of this in various regions in the country, where parishes are having to close their doors for lack of new members, and consolidate their churches with other parishes in similar situations. This is the case in areas where Catholicism has taken a more liberal (relativist) direction, such as New England and the West Coast. In contrast, Catholic churches are growing and busting at the seams in more theologically conservative areas of the country (South and Midwest), but due to the smaller population of these areas, they can't make up for the loss in the North and West Coast. This local trend sort of parallels what Pope Benedict warned us about upon his election to the papacy. The Catholic Church is going to shrink in overall size, but in doing so a purging will take place, of those who are corrupting the Church with the apostasy of this age - relativism.
As time progresses, and the tyranny of relativism increases, I suspect we will see a metamorphosis among all Christian denominations. There will be schisms and reorganizations, until eventually (regardless of denomination) there will only exist two churches: The Church of Jesus Christ (which will be marked by orthodoxy and chastity) and the Church of Apostasy (which will be marked by relativism and lust). The names over the doors of these churches won't be that important. Some may say Catholic, others may say Methodist, some Episcopalian, others Baptist, and even some may say "nondenominational." It won't matter what label they have on their building. What will matter is what's taught inside.
The great apostasy is already underway. It's been with us for decades now. Historically, the Catholic Church has been the target of much speculation. I imagine that's partly because it's a big target. I imagine it's also because many of the Church's beliefs and practices are misunderstood by non-Catholics, and sadly by many Catholics as well. But it isn't the "Hail Mary's," transubstantiation and priestly confessions that quantify the "great apostasy" foretold by the apostles. The apostle specifically warned us what to look out for....
quote:
But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. -- 2nd Timothy 3:1-5
Nothing could describe better the apostate Church of Relativism we see around us today in so many denominations. In time they will increase in number and perhaps consolidate into an apostate megachurch. In the mean time, those churches wishing to preserve their faith, and remain faithful to the gospel, will shrink in size. The Catholic Church stands to loose about 50% of it's American congregation when the Vatican finally puts the hammer down -- and mark my words -- that day is coming. When it does the Roman Catholic Church will shrink, and it will remain very VERY Catholic as a result -- but not apostate. Leave that to the relativists who will ultimately leave her, perhaps to start their own parallel Catholic Church (without the pope of course).
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 2/14/2007 3:25:57 PM
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marquez_1
Posts: 57
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GracieRuth
quote:
As of now, I'm still Protestant. Ah, but the bug is under the rug. The cat is out of the bag. The goose is on the loose. The writing is on the wall. LOL I've seen it too many times. I don't know how long your journey will take, but it has already begun. Enjoy it. :D
Gracie,
I seem to notice in all your posts that you are SO confident in being catholic. And i believe you previously stated that you used to be protestant and know the calvary chapel church. I would like to know more details as to why you abandoned Protestantism and are so confident with Catholicism. This could probably be in another thread, or you can message me directly. I would love to hear it with an open mind, its what i do best  .
And by the way I've seen a LOT more catholics turn to protestantism far more often. Raul Ries of Calvary Chapel Golden Springs in CA is one of the best known. I recommend everyone hear his testimony, its really great. I also plan on posting a MP3 file of what he has to say about the 7 sacraments, its mind blowing. Coming soon!
_____________________________
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is!"
"There are no such things as coincidences, only divine appointments from God"
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 2/14/2007 3:50:00 PM
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Ps103
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 2/27/2007 6:49:58 PM
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Wayfaring Stranger
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From another Thread.
" I have seen a lot of Catholics who believe the "women clothed with the sun" spoken of in revelation is talking about the Virgin Mary. I would like to see more thoughts on this subject, as to how they aquire this idea. I believe it is symbolic speaking of a Nation, i think some say it speaks about Isreal.
To think of this woman as being Mary, you would have to think of those scriptures as being literal.
For ex:
"a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars."
Does this mean Mary is standing on the moon and has stars on her head?
I mean, if you look at the surrounding scriptures you can see that John is talking in a symbolic nature. The things he is describing cant be literal. He even hints to that in the first verse:
"Now a great sign appeared in heaven:" He was seeing a "Sign", a vision.
Any thoughts?"
I would have to go withe Eve as being the woman who was pained to be delivered. This verse would seem to have both elements;
Ge:3:16:
Unto the woman he said,
I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception;
in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;
and thy desire shall be to thy husband,
and he shall rule over thee.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 2/27/2007 6:59:28 PM
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marquez_1
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That would be a first! I dont think I've never heard or seen any one even mention Eve in prophecy. Not bad. Thats a possibility. Being the "Mother of creation", people might mistake Mary and Eve, both are holy mothers and had important roles in human history.
_____________________________
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is!"
"There are no such things as coincidences, only divine appointments from God"
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 3/7/2007 9:53:11 PM
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Wayfaring Stranger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: marquez_1
That would be a first! I dont think I've never heard or seen any one even mention Eve in prophecy. Not bad. Thats a possibility. Being the "Mother of creation", people might mistake Mary and Eve, both are holy mothers and had important roles in human history.
If the RCC is covered in Scripture she would seem to have qualities listed in the 7 Churches. Having good points and things that need to be overcome.
I've never found that using Eve as the first helps identify who the 3rd woman is.
Does it change anything for you?
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 3/8/2007 8:01:00 AM
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warrior5181
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quote:
" I have seen a lot of Catholics who believe the "women clothed with the sun" spoken of in revelation is talking about the Virgin Mary. I would like to see more thoughts on this subject, as to how they aquire this idea. I believe it is symbolic speaking of a Nation, i think some say it speaks about Isreal.
The woman clothed with the sun is Israel. The scripture youre referring to can be found in Rev. 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a WOMAN clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: The twelve stars represent the 12 tribes of Israel, Judah, Levi, Dan, Naphtali etc....
Notice the following a few verses later - And to the WOMAN were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
This is a mirror of the prophecy of Isa 40:31 - But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with WINGS as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics be called the will of god. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves. What god desires is in your heart.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 3/8/2007 1:08:23 PM
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Wayfaring Stranger
Posts: 83
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: warrior5181
quote:
" I have seen a lot of Catholics who believe the "women clothed with the sun" spoken of in revelation is talking about the Virgin Mary. I would like to see more thoughts on this subject, as to how they aquire this idea. I believe it is symbolic speaking of a Nation, i think some say it speaks about Isreal.
The woman clothed with the sun is Israel. The scripture youre referring to can be found in Rev. 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a WOMAN clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: The twelve stars represent the 12 tribes of Israel, Judah, Levi, Dan, Naphtali etc....
Notice the following a few verses later - And to the WOMAN were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
This is a mirror of the prophecy of Isa 40:31 - But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with WINGS as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
I might as well give my full case for it being Eve. The 12 stars are the 12 tribes, as you say. That is Israel, 12 chosen tribes from the children of Eve. Jesus's heritage through Mary goes back to Adam.
It would alter who the last woman is also. If the first woman is Israel then the woman the Earth protects would be just the 144,000 and no Gentiles. If the woman is Eve then it would be the 144,000 and some Gentiles that survive Satan's two woes on man.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 3/8/2007 2:00:38 PM
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warrior5181
Posts: 86
Joined: 2/7/2007
From: North Georgia
Status: offline
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quote:
I might as well give my full case for it being Eve. The 12 stars are the 12 tribes, as you say. That is Israel, 12 chosen tribes from the children of Eve. Jesus's heritage through Mary goes back to Adam.
You seem to be ignoring the context of the chapter. The 12 stars are the tribes of Israel - AKA Jacob. Each tribe has a patriarch who is a direct offspring of Jacob. Nowhere does it indicate that the woman could possibly be anything other than Israel.
It would alter who the last woman is also. If the first woman is Israel then the woman the Earth protects would be just the 144,000 and no Gentiles. If the woman is Eve then it would be the 144,000 and some Gentiles that survive Satan's two woes on man.
Nowhere does it say that the 144k are all jews. Are Levites jews?, No, but Levi represents one of the 12 tribes. To be a jew was to be of the house of Judah. Therefore only 12 out of the 144 are jews.
Also regarding the last woman - Scripture says this woman brought fourth a man-child etc...Did Jesus not come from Israel?
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By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics be called the will of god. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves. What god desires is in your heart.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 3/8/2007 3:25:10 PM
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Wayfaring Stranger
Posts: 83
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: warrior5181
You seem to be ignoring the context of the chapter. The 12 stars are the tribes of Israel - AKA Jacob. Each tribe has a patriarch who is a direct offspring of Jacob. Nowhere does it indicate that the woman could possibly be anything other than Israel.
Nowhere does it say that the 144k are all jews. Are Levites jews?, No, but Levi represents one of the 12 tribes. To be a jew was to be of the house of Judah. Therefore only 12 out of the 144 are jews.
Also regarding the last woman - Scripture says this woman brought fourth a man-child etc...Did Jesus not come from Israel?
The context is 3 times Satan had 'had influence' or been the most interactive with mankind. Satan certainly did that in the garden by deceiving Eve.
I didn't say from one house.
The verses about Jesus are is not the last woman. Re:12:4-6 is about Jesus. I was referencing this woman as being the 144,000 and the Church (with protection);
Re:12:12:
Therefore rejoice,
ye heavens,
and ye that dwell in them.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!
for the devil is come down unto you,
having great wrath,
because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Re:12:13:
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth,
he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Re:12:14:
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle,
that she might fly into the wilderness,
into her place,
where she is nourished for a time,
and times,
and half a time,
from the face of the serpent.
Re:12:15:
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman,
that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Re:12:16:
And the earth helped the woman,
and the earth opened her mouth,
and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Re:12:17:
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Why would you exclude Gentiles from Vs:12?
Zec:8:22:
Yea,
many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem,
and to pray before the LORD.
Zec:8:23:
Thus saith the LORD of hosts;
In those days it shall come to pass,
that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations,
even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew,
saying,
We will go with you:
for we have heard that God is with you.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 3/12/2007 2:50:20 PM
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fabioaraujo
Posts: 4
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline
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Luther believed the Pope and the Turk (Muslims) together would be the Antichrist. This statement can be found in his book - Tischreden (Table talk) written in the 16th century. The issue here is that any religious man knows that antichrist will come near the end of times. So Luther (as many others in the past) did believe he was near the end of world.
In fact, in Tischreden, he calculated the end of the world for 12 years after his death. In another words, he died 12 years before his end of world.
His calculation was wrong, but still today, many people still claim that Antichrist is related to the pope some way. Some scholars say that this happens because "Vicar of Christ" in Greek means Antichrist, and as you know, in the past, in the first centuryes, Greek was a very important language, such as Latin.
According to the catholic prophecies, the Catholic Church will have more one Pope. Then there will be a 3rd world war and this last pope will be killed by Muslims allied to Russians. The Catholic Church will be without a Pope for some time. Then another Pope will b | | |
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