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RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot - 11/18/2006 6:02:49 PM
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Jess75
Posts: 30
Joined: 7/26/2006
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Rebecca,
I dont get the impression you are trying to do any weird scare tactics. I think you are just trying to give people a heads up and encourage them to look into things furthur. You dont have to be an expert to try to look out for your fellow Christians either. In fact, a lot of people who complain about your lack of facts come across that their way is right beyond a shadow of a doubt, without their own references. It's something we do when we believe we are right, but it has gone both ways from what I have read so far, and I realize your intentions are sincere.
We should be concerned, especially as Christians, if they are using aborted fetal tissue in some of these vaccines. I have read that also. And there absolutely is a lot of risk of side effects, because in the phone book, they have their own hotline for vaccine related side effects, so it obviously does happen more than a little.
I viewed a forum dedicated to parents of children with autism, and other side effects that appeared after getting vaccinated, and these people will tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was the vaccines that caused the problems. Some of them even had their doctors tell them so. It was very sad to read. I cant tell you how to get there,, it was in the forum of this similar topic a while back.
I am not one to believe that just because the medical profession, or the FDA approves something, that it is safe, or a good idea to use. For instance, the FDA approved the drug Extasy to be prescribed to people/children suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome. You know, the drug that causes all kinds of serious medical problems.....this was written about in my local newspaper. I think it is dangerous to have blind faith in doctors/pharmaceutical companies, but it seems that so many are willing.
In my opinion, the only one worthy of blind faith is the Lord, so outside of that, it is good to encourage each other to look more into something that could be potentially dangerous to our children, and be extra prayerful about our decisions concerning this.
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RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot - 11/18/2006 6:13:13 PM
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Christina124
Posts: 24
Joined: 2/19/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jess75
We should be concerned, especially as Christians, if they are using aborted fetal tissue in some of these vaccines. I have read that also. And there absolutely is a lot of risk of side effects, because in the phone book, they have their own hotline for vaccine related side effects, so it obviously does happen more than a little.
I 100% agree with you here.
quote:
I viewed a forum dedicated to parents of children with autism, and other side effects that appeared after getting vaccinated, and these people will tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was the vaccines that caused the problems. Some of them even had their doctors tell them so. It was very sad to read. I cant tell you how to get there,, it was in the forum of this similar topic a while back.
I agree that some parents, like me, are told their child got Autism from a Vaccine and that IS sad. I have talked with my genetics doctor about this and she said, "while we are researching all possible causes of Autism; we do not see a link to it from Autism as of yet. She was kind and did not try to scare me into stop vaccinating my kids like some Docs do. I am glad I had a down-to-earth doctor to help me and my child get through this.
quote:
In my opinion, the only one worthy of blind faith is the Lord, so outside of that, it is good to encourage each other to look more into something that could be potentially dangerous to our children, and be extra prayerful about our decisions concerning this.
Exactly, until they have 100% proof that any of this hurts my kids....I am going to vaccinate them AND myself.
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RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot - 11/18/2006 7:57:26 PM
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agapetos
Posts: 5585
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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quote:
I viewed a forum dedicated to parents of children with autism, and other side effects that appeared after getting vaccinated, and these people will tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was the vaccines that caused the problems. Some of them even had their doctors tell them so. It was very sad to read. I cant tell you how to get there,, it was in the forum of this similar topic a while back. I really hurt for the parents of children who have problems ~ whatever they may be. I'm sure so many of the parents are saying 'if we'd done this or hadn't done that, would our child be ok?'
Well in honesty, none of us can really say. No one knows why a child develops autism. So I do wonder how any parent ~ the majority of whom aren't medically trained ~ can reach this diagnosis. Vacinnes may cause autism ~ but we don't have absolute proof, not yet.
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Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot - 11/18/2006 8:09:16 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7753
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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This site (link) has a lot of information about vaccinations.
I stopped vaccinating my children for a while, but resumed immunizations a couple of years ago. As of last month, my children are all now up-to-date on most of their vaccinations. I did not have them vaccinated for everything, but skipped a couple, including chicken pox, which two of my children had. One of my children showed no signs of having chicken pox, so I had her blood tested to see if she was immune or not. She is immune, so I am no longer concerned.
I read a lot of the scare material, but also read information from other sources and came to the conclusion that it is best for my children to be immunized. The idea that the diseases were slowing down before the immunizations became prevalent throughout the population is false. Immunizations have halted many diseases and protect our population. That is why I had my children immunized.
_____________________________
The devil isn't winning, but he wants you to think he is so you will give up and let him win. Often the battle is hardest before the victory. You may get bloody, but that doesn't mean you are losing, it only means you are fighting.
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RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot - 11/18/2006 8:18:54 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5438
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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The chicken pox vaccine was not available when my children were young, and both caught the disease. My dd had it particularly badly, all over her private parts and also inside her mouth, as well as her face and all over her body.
A lady who lived near us on the Isle of Wight contracted chicken pox when she was 37 weeks pregnant. Her baby was born with chicken pox and he died. She died shortly afterwards.
Tragic doesn't even begin to describe it.
I'd hate to think how many diseases pregnant women could contract if even more people stop vaccinating their children.
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"That's what I would say as well."
Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: my mistake - 11/19/2006 4:37:23 AM
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HenriettasCat
Posts: 222
Joined: 4/26/2005
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Manda
I didn't even know children in the UK were vaccinated against chicken pox and I certainly haven't been told about it. I still thought the general idea is to make sure they get it when young so they get immune. The thinking is that it is inevitable that at some point your child will get it and it tends to be less serious when they are young. As so many children get CP it over here I shall be quite relieved when mine break out - to get it over and done with.
I suppose before vaccination it would have been 'inevitable' that your child would get mumps or measles. Most of my family in the older generation had them. My great aunt became profoundly deaf aged 5 from one of these diseases. We don't see some of the terrible effects of these diseases first hand anymore simply because they are not as prevalent due to the majority being immunised. ANY injection carries a risk. My mother was a nurse. She would never inject any of us because she explained that if there were side effects she wouldn't be able to cope with the guilt.
I waited a long time to give my firstborn MMR. I do remember a comment from my friend who had a small baby at the time. She said she felt cross that her child was more at risk at nursery due to parents who chose not to immunise. - just another point of view I though I'd throw in. BTW her sister was also on the council for the safety of medicines in the UK who approve and license the safety of medicines. Loads of money has now gone into testing the safety of MMR, and as she explained, her sister is hardly going to let her own kids, nieces and nephews be vaccinated if she was in any doubt.
< Message edited by HC -- 11/19/2006 4:53:46 AM >
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RE: my mistake - 11/19/2006 9:05:19 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5438
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HC
Manda
I didn't even know children in the UK were vaccinated against chicken pox and I certainly haven't been told about it. I still thought the general idea is to make sure they get it when young so they get immune. The thinking is that it is inevitable that at some point your child will get it and it tends to be less serious when they are young. As so many children get CP it over here I shall be quite relieved when mine break out - to get it over and done with.
HC,
Children in the UK are only vaccinated against chicken pox in certain circumstances, and then only over the age of 13. It probably wasn't the best example to use, but I just wanted to get across what could happen generally if more and more (with other diseases) if fewer and fewer people vaccinate.
Though with the chicken pox virus there are concerns about it leading to a possible rise in shingles in adults - see this BBC article from 2002
quote:
I suppose before vaccination it would have been 'inevitable' that your child would get mumps or measles. Most of my family in the older generation had them. My great aunt became profoundly deaf aged 5 from one of these diseases. We don't see some of the terrible effects of these diseases first hand anymore simply because they are not as prevalent due to the majority being immunised.
I'm 47, and I had measles, German measles, scarlatina and chicken pox as a child - but not mumps. Mum was always worried that I hadn't had it. I was vaccinated against diphtheria, polio and tetanus, also against smallpox, as a small child. I don't know when they stopped the routine smallpox jab - think it was in the 60's.
_____________________________
"That's what I would say as well."
Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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RE: my mistake - 11/19/2006 4:12:55 PM
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nicole6598
Posts: 4043
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Australia
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here in australia they offer the chickenpox vaccine when the child is 18mths i think, it's not compulsory though (to recieve the money from the govt).
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RE: my mistake - 11/19/2006 4:29:24 PM
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agapetos
Posts: 5585
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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I had mumps when I was a child and it was grim. I didn't realise until recently that mumps can cause infertility in women as well as men (I knew it could in men).
When I'd just turned 13 my parents thought I had whooping cough. Several home visits from the doc, including one in the middle of the night. I still remember wondering if I was going to die.
No one ever said what it was that I recall but I do remember the cough ~ which was a whoop ~ and the pain of it all.
Not something I'd wish on anyone.
_____________________________
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
My blog
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RE: my mistake - 11/19/2006 9:13:09 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5438
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From: Hampshire, UK
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That website seems to contain info dating from 2004 - do you have anything more recent?
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Mrs Wifey, August 2008.
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vaccines - 11/19/2006 9:20:26 PM
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rebeccalynn3348
Posts: 162
Joined: 11/15/2006
From: MD
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Listen everyone..I definetely got a little emotional over what I felt to be negative responses over information I was trying to provide. Jess75 has helped me change my mind along with the person who said I shoudln't give information and run for the hills. This is so true and I am sorry. I was hoping for a positive response but I should remember that we have been indoctrinated with the message that vaccines are safe, effective, and those who don't get them are quacks! I want to say first that I am only trying to provide information that people may not have considered and I didn't pesonally know any of this information until someone informed me so I am trying to pass it along. No I am not an expert, no I am not in the medical field..I am only a concerned mother who wants to get the word out. I'm going to share some information now WITH sources and hope you will pray about this matter with an open mind and heart. I wish there was also some way I could show you all a video clip (one I show in my seminars) that would really help you see what is going on behind the scenes. If anyone knows a way I could do that please let me know. Okay moving on here is some information from organizations you are probably all familar with. Please remember I am not trying to scare, intimidate, or even get you all not to vaccinate..I only want to share this information so you are informed of the real risks (that are usually not discussed) and so you can have BOTH sides of the issue. Many parents are not even told of the risks and dangers.
“according to the British Association for the Advancement of Science, childhood diseases decreased 90% between 1850 and 1940, paralleling improved sanitation and hygienic practices, well before mandatory vaccine programs.” The Medical Sentinel (which is one of the most distinguished journals and this quote has never been disputed by anyone) also recently reported that “from 1911 to 1935, the four leading causes of childhood deaths from infectious diseases in the US were diphtheria, pertussis, scarlet fever, and measles. However, by 1945 the combined death rates from these causes had declined by 95%, before the implementation of mass immunization programs.” Also according to Dr. Mendelsohn, in Europe some diseases diminished and others disappeared while they did not have mass immunizations. Did you pick up that scarlet fever was one of the top four deadly diseases in the US although it disappeared without the implementation of vaccinations?
According to Dr. Russell Blaylcock:
"When children are vaccinated using combined vaccines, such as DpaT and MMR, they are more likely to suffer immune suppression. This allows the measles virus to survive and inhabit the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract and even the nervous system. Now acting like a stealth virus, the measles organism can survive for a lifetime. Because the immune system continues to try unsuccessfully to rid the body and brain of the virus, much damage is done. It’s a smoldering attack that never ends. Because of this process, the measles virus is suspected as a possible cause of multiple sclerosis and ALS, among other diseases. "
I will continue to give more information..I just felt this was getting really long. A great book to read is a book by Dr. Robert Mendelsohn called How to Raise A Healthy Child...In spite of your doctor.
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A Happy Marriage is the union of two forgivers.
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RE: vaccines - 11/21/2006 9:30:52 AM
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locomom
Posts: 242
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Looking at the link for Advanced Health Plan, there is no specific identifying information as to who these people are and where their information comes from. Although they underline some scientific names most of the justification is anecdotal. As a trained scientist, I would not considered this site as having done anything near to prove their case. In fact, this site has one of the red flags which is that they profit from their claims.
rebeccalynn,
I was bothered by part of your last post. You wrote "I was hoping for a positive response but I should remember that we have been indoctrinated with the message that vaccines are safe, effective, and that those who don't get them are quacks." What you can realistically expect on Crosswalk is lively debate. If it gets out of hand a moderator will rein it in. It sounds like you are saying those who disagree are indoctrinated by the medical system... How about that having looked at the facts, they just disagree with you.
I don't recall there being an immunization for scarlet fever. One of my friends daughter had it about 12 years ago. Scarlet fever is caused by strep bacteria. I would expect that the incidence decreased around the time it did because of the introduction of antibiotics.
Although the journals you listed may be well-respected and careful, claims in any one of them may be questioned. That is part of the function of scientific journals -- to promote peer review. Commonly the article that are printed are given to several respected scientists to preview before publishing, passing the test of peer review is one method of trying to maintain a check on the science and scientists by the people who have study the issue in the most depth. It can be a source of lively disagreement. Science also takes some about faces also.
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RE: vaccines - 11/21/2006 10:34:03 AM
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rebeccalynn3348
Posts: 162
Joined: 11/15/2006
From: MD
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To locomom,
Thank you for your comments and I understand that many people may have researched vaccines and decided to vaccinate, however, you often times have to search out the information I am talking about because the overwhelming majority says vaccines are safe (with very little research or faulty research). I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say the Advanced Health Plan...I never claimed that was a source of any of my research. Has anyone even looked up the sources I have shared?? When someone does please let me know what you think. Like I mentioned The Medical Sentinel has never been disputed and is one of the most respected journals. Here is some more information like I promised (to everyone):
This is a quote by Robert S. Mendelsohn,M.D. ( a very well-respected pediatrician for over thirty years, the national director of Project Head Start's Medical Consultation Service, chairman of the Medical Licensing Committee for the state fo Illiniois, and associate professor of Preventative Medicine and Community Health in the School of Medicine of the Univesity of Illinois. He has received numerous awards for excellence in medicine and medicine instruction)
He says: "The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization."
Some information from his book How to raise a healthy child..in spite of your doctor...
"Mumps is a relatively innocuous viral disease...symptoms can include: swelling of salivary glands, temperature, headache, back pain, etc. Mumps does not require medical attention."
"Measles is a contagious viral disease. Symptoms: tired, fever, rash/spots (can cover body), etc. No treatment is required for measles other than bed rest, fluids to combat possible dehydration from fever, and lotion to help itching."
"Rubella is a non-threatening disease in chidlren that does not require medical attention. It is more serious is contracted during pregnancy..but this fear is used to justify giving it to all children. Symptoms include cold symptoms, rash may appear, accompanied by a sore throat."
Just a few..will discuss more soon (don't want to make this too long)
"There is no convincing scientific evidence that mass innoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease...If immunizations were responsible for the disappearance of these diseases in the United States, one must ask why they disappeared simultaneously in Europe, where mass immunizations did not take place."
"While the myriad short-term hazards of most immunizations are known (but rarely explained), no one knows the long-term consequences of injecting foreign proteins into the body of the child...even more shocking is the fact that no one is making any structured effort to find out."
"There is growing suspicion (and now scientific and clinical research) that immunization against relatively harmless childhood diseases may be responsible for the dramatic increase in autoimmune diseases since mass inoculations were introduced. Including cancer, leukemia, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's disease, lupus erythematosus, and Gulllan Barre syndrome."
"There are significant risks associated with every immunization and numerous contraindications..."
My personal argument is that parents are not being told these significant risks..they are not being told of the deaths and illnesses they can cause or of the ingredients. What they are often times told is that the child may get a slight fever or soreness at the injection..I know this is what I was told also. They are also being told that the diseases are "life-threatening" when you can see the diseases for the MMR shot are NOT life threatening. Have people died from them..yes, however, it is usually from complications (such as someone who was immune-suppressed to begin with). Yet millions of children are getting the potentially dangerous vaccine against them..and people don't realize but when a child gets a MMR shot that is like getting all three diseases at the same time...the immune system makes no distinction and the child is not only getting the weakened, killed, or live virus, but also the dangerous ingredients along with it at an age when the child's immune system is already dysfunctional and underdeveloped.
_____________________________
A Happy Marriage is the union of two forgivers.
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RE: vaccines - 11/21/2006 11:08:17 AM
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cynthia
Posts: 7753
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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Here a link to a chart on the "Impact of Vaccines in the 20th Century."
_____________________________
The devil isn't winning, but he wants you to think he is so you will give up and let him win. Often the battle is hardest before the victory. You may get bloody, but that doesn't mean you are losing, it only means you are fighting.
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RE: vaccines - 11/21/2006 11:44:59 AM
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rebeccalynn3348
Posts: 162
Joined: 11/15/2006
From: MD
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cynthia,
I've already explained and given the sources that explain that vaccines were NOT the cause of disease decline (90-95% decline BEFORE mass immunizations), but hygiene, sanitation, indoor plumbing, cleaner water, etc. deserve the thanks.
_____________________________
A Happy Marriage is the union of two forgivers.
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RE: vaccines - 11/21/2006 11:54:54 AM
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cynthia
Posts: 7753
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rebeccalynn3348
cynthia,
I've already explained and given the sources that explain that vaccines were NOT the cause of disease decline (90-95% decline BEFORE mass immunizations), but hygiene, sanitation, indoor plumbing, cleaner water, etc. deserve the thanks.
Yes, I am aware of what you stated, but you have drawn an illogical conclusion. If your assertion were correct, all communicable diseases would have declined, at the same rate as those diseases that are routinely vaccinated against. This has obviously not happened. The diseases that declined did so due to immunizations. An example would be chicken pox. Chicken pox has significantly declined since people began immunizing their children against it. Prior to that, chicken pox was a normal childhood disease.
The following link provides an example of an outbreak of disease that can be directly attributed to the decline in immunizations in the population. The outbreak was stemmed by inoculating people against the disease. Link to an example.
Furthermore, when many of these diseases were rampant in the population, hygiene, sanitation, indoor plumbing, cleaner water, etc. had been around for decades. When my mother was a little girl, there was an outbreak of polio in her town that had all of the above. The outbreak of polio was not due to poor sanitation. This is an outrageous point that, if you think about it, is off by decades.
_____________________________
The devil isn't winning, but he wants you to think he is so you will give up and let him win. Often the battle is hardest before the victory. You may get bloody, but that doesn't mean you are losing, it only means you are fighting.
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RE: vaccines - 11/21/2006 12:07:24 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7753
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: offline
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I don't take my doctor's word for much. I research and do my home work on heath issues, as well as pretty much everything else. I suspended immunizing my children for several years, but came to the conclusion that the anti-immunization rhetoric was mostly a bunch of illogical conclusions, after reading a ton of stuff on it from all positions. My children are now immunized against most diseases.
_____________________________
The devil isn't winning, but he wants you to think he is so you will give up and let him win. Often the battle is hardest before the victory. You may get bloody, but that doesn't mean you are losing, it only means you are fighting.
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I was watching a show about Polio on PBS during the summer and my heart just about sank. Parents would put their kids down for naps and they'd wake up with the disease during an outbreak. Many kids were in hospitals for weeks and some even months. Very thankful fo the vaccine. I heard that Whooping Cough was going around somewhere in IL . Last year mumps went around and they traced it to a girl who hadn't had her shots and caught it while on a missions trip. 
The problem with the chicken pox vaccine, for instance, is that for it to be truly effective, one still has to get boosters every so many years. I'd rather 1) my kids have lifetime immunity by getting chicken pox as children, or 2) have them immunized when they get older. BTW, I had chicken pox at 26. 
