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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 4/10/2008 6:27:01 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 842
Joined: 11/8/2007
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In all of this I see a lot of justification for what makes one feel more comfortable. I know everyone wants to draw the morality line beyond their own behavior, but this is the slippery slope that Paul refers to in the beginning of the epistle to the Romans. I admit that these issues are not new, otherwise Paul would not have had to warn the believers in Rome about them. The point is that the line must be drawn somewhere and Adonai has drawn that line. Some say that we should just let our consciences be our guides. Moral relativism just results in a seared conscience that we can not count on. The time of the judges shows us what happens when each man does what is right in his own eyes.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 4/19/2008 2:32:40 AM
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fallenstar
Posts: 92
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Well shucks, if some cross-dressing, transgender type folks want to fellowship at my Church; they are welcome, as long as they repent of thier rebellion, sin, and craziness.
Else they can go on down the street to the Unitarian or possibly the UCC or some other gathering, but they will not be welcome here without repentance and salvation.
Same thing goes for homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators, and sinners of all ilks.
Thanks
RC
Um, okay, that was sort of...unnessecary. Your a sinner too.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 4/19/2008 3:23:33 AM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 14087
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From: Just Outside of Boston
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Should women wear pants/jeans then? Just a thought.
_____________________________
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 4/19/2008 7:05:30 AM
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everythingat
Posts: 183
Joined: 2/21/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Well shucks, if some cross-dressing, transgender type folks want to fellowship at my Church; they are welcome, as long as they repent of thier rebellion, sin, and craziness.
Else they can go on down the street to the Unitarian or possibly the UCC or some other gathering, but they will not be welcome here without repentance and salvation.
Same thing goes for homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators, and sinners of all ilks.
Thanks
RC
Um, okay, that was sort of...unnessecary. Your a sinner too.
Quoted again, because that really is absolutely unnecessary. You know...taking time...to gain their trust...to get to know them as people...feeling you know...that thing called compassion? Might lead to their salvation. But I'm sure the church down the road knows that.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/8/2008 11:25:57 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 487
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John MacArthur had a wonderful program on this very topic this morning.
http://oneplace.com/ministries/Grace_to_You/
He deals with cross-dressing, redefining gender, and homosexuality. He presents it in his usual no-nonsense manner and I found it very interesting.
-Dave
quote:
GOOD NEWS-The baby is fine(???) for now
[link]http://forums.crosswalk.com/Current+Events/m_3582664/mpage_1/tm.htm#3592993[/link]
from cynthia:
The Bible says:
Genesis 5:2
2 He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.
Redefining gender is evil. It is vital that we understand that there is such a thing as truth regarding gender. We cannot go around redefining truth and expect to maintain our ability to think properly. That is moral relativism. Once we get on a slippery slope of moral relativism, we are on dangerous ground. Even our salvation is based on truth. The devil wants us to do away with truth in some things, so he can confuse us even about the truth of Christ's sacrifice and our eternal salvation. It doesn't matter where moral relativism starts. It all leads to the same place. We have to nip it in the bud and not allow it to grow.
< Message edited by Fritzpw_Admin -- 7/9/2008 2:13:56 PM >
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/9/2008 2:02:16 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3652
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
In any jail/prison in the U.S. - what determines the classification of an inmate is what genitalia the individual has.
So where do they put the convicted felon who is a chimera hermaphrodite, with XX and XY, and BOTH kinds of genitals?
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/9/2008 2:06:57 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3652
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
John MacArthur had a wonderful program on this very topic this morning.
He deals with cross-dressing, redefining gender, and homosexuality. He presents it in his usual no-nonsense manner and I found it very interesting. Does he have anything to say about hermaphrodism?
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/9/2008 3:33:25 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 487
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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I don't recall him mentioning that particular disorder(?). He was definitely against having "the operation" but I don't know what he would say about someone born that way. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
John MacArthur had a wonderful program on this very topic this morning.
He deals with cross-dressing, redefining gender, and homosexuality. He presents it in his usual no-nonsense manner and I found it very interesting. Does he have anything to say about hermaphrodism?
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/9/2008 6:14:10 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2318
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
John MacArthur had a wonderful program on this very topic this morning.
He deals with cross-dressing, redefining gender, and homosexuality. He presents it in his usual no-nonsense manner and I found it very interesting. Does he have anything to say about hermaphrodism?
I honestly think Christians (a majority of them) forget about biological disorders (biochemical disorders) in this area. Just the other day my embryology professor was telling me about a student whose mother's long-time friend had been born with both sets of genitalia... so they just arbitrarily cut a set off/out, and it turns out that the person was the OPPOSITE of what they decided to remove. So they were genetically a man (when clothed)... but since they made a wrong choice at birth, he has just female parts. I wouldn't make that person live as a woman b/c he has female parts; his genotype and phenotype don't match. When that happens, I'd go with the genotype... but many Christians insist you go by phenotype only... and that's where I think things are messed up. People would call a man w/female parts a crossdresser if they dress as a man, but if you're genetically a man, to me, that's what you are... no matter what set of sex organs you have.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2008 7:51:49 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3652
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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And with the increasing awareness of chimerism, we are finding people with XX and XY chromosomes in the same body. There is no one set of physical traits that would fit that genotype.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2008 10:18:47 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 487
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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These truly are very sad situations, IMO. We need to treat them with love, kindness, and understanding. I think this is different from someone who wants to be, and has an operation to "become" the other sex (regardless of his/her reasoning) or merely someone who cross-dresses. The latter are usually homosexuals, which the Bible calls a sin.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
John MacArthur had a wonderful program on this very topic this morning.
He deals with cross-dressing, redefining gender, and homosexuality. He presents it in his usual no-nonsense manner and I found it very interesting. Does he have anything to say about hermaphrodism?
I honestly think Christians (a majority of them) forget about biological disorders (biochemical disorders) in this area. Just the other day my embryology professor was telling me about a student whose mother's long-time friend had been born with both sets of genitalia... so they just arbitrarily cut a set off/out, and it turns out that the person was the OPPOSITE of what they decided to remove. So they were genetically a man (when clothed)... but since they made a wrong choice at birth, he has just female parts. I wouldn't make that person live as a woman b/c he has female parts; his genotype and phenotype don't match. When that happens, I'd go with the genotype... but many Christians insist you go by phenotype only... and that's where I think things are messed up. People would call a man w/female parts a crossdresser if they dress as a man, but if you're genetically a man, to me, that's what you are... no matter what set of sex organs you have.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2008 11:44:50 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 254
Status: offline
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quote:
I'm currently watching Oprah and the pregnant "man" is on.
Does anybody know what sex Oprah is? 
Gees, people should stop watching her.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2008 11:57:50 AM
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6dj8
Posts: 30
Joined: 6/30/2008
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quote:
These truly are very sad situations, IMO. We need to treat them with love, kindness, and understanding. I think this is different from someone who wants to be, and has an operation to "become" the other sex (regardless of his/her reasoning) or merely someone who cross-dresses. The latter are usually homosexuals, which the Bible calls a sin.
-Dave
Maybe you're confusing drag-queens with cross-dressers. Cross-dressers are typically heterosexual.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2008 11:58:48 AM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2318
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
These truly are very sad situations, IMO. We need to treat them with love, kindness, and understanding. I think this is different from someone who wants to be, and has an operation to "become" the other sex (regardless of his/her reasoning) or merely someone who cross-dresses. The latter are usually homosexuals, which the Bible calls a sin.
-Dave
What if their "reasoning" was that they were gentically male, phenotypically female (or vice versa)? Is it a sin to be a man and woman in oneself, but then make both aspects match up by changing the outside to match the genes?
I think it'd be hard to know if one who has a sex change has a problem like this or not... unless they volunteer the information to a person.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2008 1:50:33 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 487
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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What's the difference? They both dress in clothing of the other sex. I'm serious in asking, if there's a difference I don't see it, except maybe for a difference in desired consequence (prostitution?).
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: 6dj8
quote:
These truly are very sad situations, IMO. We need to treat them with love, kindness, and understanding. I think this is different from someone who wants to be, and has an operation to "become" the other sex (regardless of his/her reasoning) or merely someone who cross-dresses. The latter are usually homosexuals, which the Bible calls a sin.
-Dave
Maybe you're confusing drag-queens with cross-dressers. Cross-dressers are typically heterosexual.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2008 1:58:37 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 487
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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I gotta admit, I'm not really into clinical aspects of this. I do believe, however, that God made all of us the sex he intended us to be. There probably are many factors that influence how they "feel" or relate later in life (as in maybe teenage years and beyond). These are not God influenced if they are different than the way God intended when they were born. Remember, God doesn't make mistakes.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
These truly are very sad situations, IMO. We need to treat them with love, kindness, and understanding. I think this is different from someone who wants to be, and has an operation to "become" the other sex (regardless of his/her reasoning) or merely someone who cross-dresses. The latter are usually homosexuals, which the Bible calls a sin.
-Dave
What if their "reasoning" was that they were gentically male, phenotypically female (or vice versa)? Is it a sin to be a man and woman in oneself, but then make both aspects match up by changing the outside to match the genes?
I think it'd be hard to know if one who has a sex change has a problem like this or not... unless they volunteer the information to a person.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2008 9:40:39 AM
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6dj8
Posts: 30
Joined: 6/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
What's the difference? They both dress in clothing of the other sex. I'm serious in asking, if there's a difference I don't see it, except maybe for a difference in desired consequence (prostitution?).
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: 6dj8
quote:
These truly are very sad situations, IMO. We need to treat them with love, kindness, and understanding. I think this is different from someone who wants to be, and has an operation to "become" the other sex (regardless of his/her reasoning) or merely someone who cross-dresses. The latter are usually homosexuals, which the Bible calls a sin.
-Dave
Maybe you're confusing drag-queens with cross-dressers. Cross-dressers are typically heterosexual.
Well, tell you what:
Drag-queen: Gay, dresses like a woman.
Cross-dresser: Straight, wears women's clothes occasionally, nothing sexual.
Transsexual: Getting their sex changed, or living as the opposite sex.
Transvestite: Straight, dresses as a woman for sexual pleasure.
All the above is in general terms, not 100% are straight. But the majority are.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2008 9:46:30 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 487
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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Sorry, but I can't consider any of those as being "straight." Just my opinion, to which I am entitled.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: 6dj8
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
What's the difference? They both dress in clothing of the other sex. I'm serious in asking, if there's a difference I don't see it, except maybe for a difference in desired consequence (prostitution?).
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: 6dj8
quote:
These truly are very sad situations, IMO. We need to treat them with love, kindness, and understanding. I think this is different from someone who wants to be, and has an operation to "become" the other sex (regardless of his/her reasoning) or merely someone who cross-dresses. The latter are usually homosexuals, which the Bible calls a sin.
-Dave
Maybe you're confusing drag-queens with cross-dressers. Cross-dressers are typically heterosexual.
Well, tell you what:
Drag-queen: Gay, dresses like a woman.
Cross-dresser: Straight, wears women's clothes occasionally, nothing sexual.
Transsexual: Getting their sex changed, or living as the opposite sex.
Transvestite: Straight, dresses as a woman for sexual pleasure.
All the above is in general terms, not 100% are straight. But the majority are.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2008 10:05:41 AM
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6dj8
Posts: 30
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline
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Dave,
Straight: Sexually attracted to the opposite sex.
Gay: Sexually attracted to the same sex.
Clothes don't make the man. Neither do interior design, football, flowers, fixing the car, eating quiche, or working in construction.
So, what, in your opinion, makes YOU straight?
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2008 10:19:33 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 487
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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This is a totally inappropriate, inane question and also, none of your business! Just take my word for it, I'm straight.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: 6dj8
Dave,
Straight: Sexually attracted to the opposite sex.
Gay: Sexually attracted to the same sex.
Clothes don't make the man. Neither do interior design, football, flowers, fixing the car, eating quiche, or working in construction.
So, what, in your opinion, makes YOU straight?
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2008 10:29:35 AM
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6dj8
Posts: 30
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline
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Sorry. I'll take your word for it. Never said you aren't. The question was meant to be rhetorical.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2008 12:37:00 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 487
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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Apology accepted. Let's move on.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: 6dj8
Sorry. I'll take your word for it. Never said you aren't. The question was meant to be rhetorical.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/23/2008 10:19:54 PM
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fallenstar
Posts: 92
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline
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Gays are people too. And guess what?...They deserve the respect every human being does. Just because a person is a transgender does'nt make thme evil or "possesed by Satan". This goes out to all the people who loathe homosexuals.
I am disgusted by the lack or respect homosexuals have been given. "Love thy neighbor as thyself". Did you forget already? Or are you so ready to punish people for their sins that you think you are a better judge than God? Whether or not a person goes to hell is for Him to decide, and you have never died before and you are not God. He knows more than you, so step back, get that protest sign outta my face and leave me in peace.
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