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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/3/2006 2:50:13 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 937
Joined: 1/23/2006
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Carolyn - quote:
because I kind of came to the conclusion that I would never be accepted by either the men or women of crosswalk as a woman and that I would only be allowed into threads such as this.
Not by me! I always wish that everyone could reach out to people with love and care especially those who are shunned by the mainstream.
Welcome from me to you :)
I had to edit this because I also had an afterthought - theres a lot of real nice folk on here that feel the same.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/3/2006 2:50:56 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2397
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2462
quote:
I find it interesting that thosw whio want to justify perversion and sin always pull out of their hat some rare and extreme example to make it alright to apply it to everyone. Men should be men look like men act like men and dress like men. Women should be women look like women act like women and dress like women. There should always be a difference between the two and anything else is a perversion of Gods intent. Justify it if you want but it is digusting. With the exception of those who refuseto believe that the bible is literal so that they can twist scripture as they want scriture is very clear on this issue.
Pastor.
(I assume you are a Pastor because of your login name)
I see the anger that is inside of you about people like me and it is something I have had to live with. From your hastily written reply I wish to assure you that I have not lied about what I have written as you seem to imply quote:
always pull out of their hat some rare and extreme example to make it alright and further you should be aware that I do believe the bible is literal and so I ask you to show me those places where what has happend to me is impossible.
Carolyn
Carolyn, I believe for some people that they have problems that are legitimate. Chromosomal/physiological problems exist, but I know many Christians who just dismiss those like they shouldn't matter (either because they have never learned about those issues, or they just choose to ignore their reality [see my post #94])...but they can totally mess up your life, or an aspect of it. I believe myself that many who are transgendered have a problem that they may or may not know about (because they've not been tested). But to say that no one has legitimate problems that are caused by no fault of their own in this area isn't correct.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/3/2006 3:12:06 PM
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car2462
Posts: 15
Joined: 10/16/2005
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Leah,
Thank you for your kind words.
As to your comment quote:
It sounds as though you've made your peace with God, and I pray you are ready to meet Him. I certainly cannot and will not stand in judgement of you. you should know that it is not true. I have been beating myself up for many years believeing that this is somehow my fault. I have gone to Christian counseling as well as secular and you would be surprised at some of the people that I have gone to. Yes I know who I am, but I am unable to rectify this before God. I have searched the Scriptures and I have asked God to change me. Yet here I am.
You will never know how much the words of you and IMA_CHRISTIAN means to me. No one in my life have ever accepted me the way you have, just those few words have given me the hope that maybe, just maybe God does love and want me.
Carolyn
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/3/2006 3:41:16 PM
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RaeLouiseWall
Posts: 46
Joined: 6/7/2006
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quote:
I have been beating myself up for many years believeing that this is somehow my fault. I have gone to Christian counseling as well as secular and you would be surprised at some of the people that I have gone to. Yes I know who I am, but I am unable to rectify this before God. I have searched the Scriptures and I have asked God to change me. Yet here I am.
Carolyn, God has made each one of us in a unique way with talents and abilities, preferences and desires. For someone to be transgendered, whether it is a crossdresser or transsexual is just another aspect of the uniqueness that God has created in each and everyone of us. Those who don’t understand the concept of what it means to be dealing with GID (Gender Identity Disorder) or transgenderism in general, it is often simpler to take a “spiritual” stand rather than to look into it and potentially have to admit they may have been wrong. However, when a transgendered Christian takes the time to investigate this issue, learn what scripture says, or does not say regarding it, they are told that they are twisting the scripture, or interpreting it to meet selfish needs, just as those who do not understand it are doing.
Your comment that you have spoken to counseling both Christian and secular speaks volumes about what someone who is transgendered deals with. They seek very long and hard for an answer to this feeling and need that is welling from the depths of their being. Most Christian counselors and many secular ones, have no training in GID or transgender issues. It would be like going to the eye doctor when you have problems with your teeth. Both are doctors, and both deal with the head, but the eye doctor is not a specialist with teeth. Counseling needs to be done with those who are objective and educated in the areas one needs help in.
Remember that God loves you deeply, regardless of how you look. He loves your soul as that is what will be there with Him in glory and not the physical flesh and blood it is currently residing in while you meander to and fro on earth. Live for Him and be a shining example to others that you, as a Christian can also be transgendered, and for you, the need to have corrective surgery to “sync” up things has helped you to be a better human, a better Christian and a better witness of God’s wondrous love.
_____________________________
All the best,
Rae Louise Wall
@>'-,'-'--,--
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 10:29:45 AM
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uschaplain
Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2006
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quote:
I am a secret crossdresser and have had these desires since a very young age. I do think it is wrong but I really do not know how to overcome it.
Dear N.E.W.S,
In order for me to better understand you, why do you think it is wrong? Is it spiritually wrong, morally wrong, legally wrong, socially wrong, emotionally/mentally/psychologically wrong, or other?
Are clothes sinful? God clothed Adam and Eve after they sinned, so clothing can't be sinful.
Why do you want to overcome it?
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 10:43:33 AM
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uschaplain
Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2006
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Dear Rev. Mitchell,
Your reasoning reminds me of the following satirical anecdote.
Freedom from Pets, written by: Jade Catherine Devlin
[Please note: This article is satire. It is not intended to be taken seriously. Thank you.]
I'd like to announce the Web page of my new ministry, www.FreedFromPets.com.
In our country today, we see many people telling themselves that it's OK to keep animals with paws inside their houses and pet them. Some people even argue that they can still be Christians while doing this. A few churches, trying to be politically correct and make everybody happy, have gone so far as to offer to give blessings for people's "pets."
What is a Christian to make of all this? Let's see what God's word says. From Leviticus 11:
27 'Also whatever walks on its paws, among all the creatures that walk on all fours, are unclean to you; whoever touches their carcasses becomes unclean until evening,
28 and the one who picks up their carcasses shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening; they are unclean to you.
Dogs are mentioned 41 times in the Bible. Every single time, the reference is unfavorable.
Cats are not mentioned at all. But we all know that cats are intimately associated with Egypt, where they were considered sacred, and Egypt consistently symbolizes spiritual corruption.
There is not one favorable mention of pet ownership in the Bible. Not one.
[Edited by Admin for posting entire article in violation of the Terms of Service. Please only post a portion and give a link where the rest can be read. Please email community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 2:30:20 PM
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revmitchell
Posts: 47
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: uschaplain
Dear Rev. Mitchell,
Your reasoning reminds me of the following satirical anecdote.
Freedom from Pets, written by: Jade Catherine Devlin
[Please note: This article is satire. It is not intended to be taken seriously. Thank you.]
I'd like to announce the Web page of my new ministry, www.FreedFromPets.com.
In our country today, we see many people telling themselves that it's OK to keep animals with paws inside their houses and pet them. Some people even argue that they can still be Christians while doing this. A few churches, trying to be politically correct and make everybody happy, have gone so far as to offer to give blessings for people's "pets."
What is a Christian to make of all this? Let's see what God's word says. From Leviticus 11:
27 'Also whatever walks on its paws, among all the creatures that walk on all fours, are unclean to you; whoever touches their carcasses becomes unclean until evening,
28 and the one who picks up their carcasses shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening; they are unclean to you.
Dogs are mentioned 41 times in the Bible. Every single time, the reference is unfavorable.
Cats are not mentioned at all. But we all know that cats are intimately associated with Egypt, where they were considered sacred, and Egypt consistently symbolizes spiritual corruption.
There is not one favorable mention of pet ownership in the Bible. Not one.
[Edited by Admin for posting entire article in violation of the Terms of Service. Please only post a portion and give a link where the rest can be read. Please email community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Apples and Oranges my friend.
_____________________________
A government without God, is a government against God.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 2:51:23 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3987
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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quote:
Dogs are mentioned 41 times in the Bible. Every single time, the reference is unfavorable.
You have to consider that Caleb (in Exodus) is very favorably mentioned and the Hebrew word caleb means "dog."
quote:
There is not one favorable mention of pet ownership in the Bible. Not one.
The bible does not distinguish between pets and livestock. Indeed, the passover lamb is to live in the house for 2 weeks prior to being slaughtered. THe OT is replete with blessings for livestock.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 4:21:00 PM
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uschaplain
Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
You have to consider that Caleb (in Exodus) is very favorably mentioned and the Hebrew word caleb means "dog."
You will find the same Hebrew root, KLB, is used for dog and Caleb, but the spelling is not. Keleb is used for dog, versus Kaleb, the person.
Keleb can mean the animal, dog, a watchdog, a stray (unclean dog), a term of contempt, a term of self-abasement, a servant to a person, a servant to a deity, and a male cult prostitute (pederast).
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 4:22:39 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1084
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: uschaplain
What evidence do you have that heterosexual, non-fetish, crossdressing is a mental/emotional disorder? What evidence do you have that it is rebellion against God?
There is no proof at all that it isn't a mental/emotional disorder. You may add all the tags (heterosexual, non-fetish, etc.) to it but it all boils down to this: men dressing like women and women dressing like men, in a sincere attempt to "blend in" or whatever they try to do, is not normal. You may not like that,, you are free to attack my use of such a divisive term as "normal." At the end of the day it remains that there is no evidence, none, nada, zip, zilch that says otherwise.
My proof that it is rebellion against God? Well, all lost people (regardless of whether they crossdress or not) are in rebellion against God. Anyone who says they are born again and yet would do such a thing as to cause confusion and bring reproach upon God and His people would, at best, not have their priorities in order.
quote:
Just as genetic women can dress in feminine clothing to deceive [i.e., padded bras], to sexually entice, or for vainglory, tt is possible for crossdressers can do the same. That does not mean all genetic women or crossdressers dress to deceive, entice, or for vanity.
What genetic women do to continue to look like genetic women is not the issue and by trying to tie them in together with crossdressing men you attempt to blur a line which is quite clear. They do not belong together, they are not the same. This is how we get into trouble by comparing apples with oranges and then trying to justify the comparison when we get kooky results.
Let me simplify this for everyone. The term "genetic woman" has been tossed about a bit. Let me ask this - what other kind of "woman" is there? Answer: only one. Barring a genetic defect, you are either male or female. No "genetic male" but with a female "gender." This is nothing more than a very clever ruse by people who have no belief in God to get other people to think:
1) They are very smart because it sounds complicated and scientific
2) And to get those who do purport to believe in God to veer away from very simple reasoning, thus allowing anything to become possible
3) Thus holding any idea that comes from a Judoe-Christian background to be subject to ridicule when placed against the rigor of "scientific method"
4) While at the same time allowing them to state and teach things as truth and fact which, by their own method, have not and can not be proven
We now have six pages of debate on the subject based on things that have yet to be proven and touted as fact, while scripture that shows our behavior should be governed (not by our own selfish wants) by love and concern for others dismissed on the ground that...it conflicts with our own selfish wants and desires - or it's just not possible to be that way.
These people, regardless of why they do what they do, and those with genetic disorders who suffer a great deal, must be dealth with - and this has been my position from the beginning - with love and respect. Doing so does not negate our being able to minister to them to the extent they will allow. But, as with anything else, start laying down clear black and white lines and "thus says the Lord" and there will be objections from the selfish to the pseudo-scientific.
There's nothing new under the sun.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 5:46:49 PM
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uschaplain
Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
There is no proof at all that it isn't a mental/emotional disorder.
If there is no proof at all that crossdressing isn't a mental/emotional disorder, then I would appreciate seeing your proof that it is a mental/emotional disorder.
My next comment is simply an illustration and not a comparison. It wasn't too long ago that doctors believed that asthma attacks were a psychological disorder; whereas now asthma is known to have a physical cause(s).
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 5:51:32 PM
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uschaplain
Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2006
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quote:
Barring a genetic defect, you are either male or female.
If you admit to a genetic defect in chromosomes for Turner's syndrome, Klinefelter's, chimera, intersexed conditions, and ambiguous sex conditions, etc., then how are you so confidently able to assert that crossdressing isn't rooted in having another physiological cause such as a defective interutero hormonal wash of the brain, or other factors.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 6:02:16 PM
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uschaplain
Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2006
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quote:
1) They are very smart because it sounds complicated and scientific
2) And to get those who do purport to believe in God to veer away from very simple reasoning, thus allowing anything to become possible
3) Thus holding any idea that comes from a Judoe-Christian background to be subject to ridicule when placed against the rigor of "scientific method"
4) While at the same time allowing them to state and teach things as truth and fact which, by their own method, have not and can not be proven
I am not sure to whom you are referring. From my perspective, I have no intention to veer people away from their belief in God, nor do I seek to allow anything to become possible. I believe in the inerrent and infallible Word of God, verbal and plenary inspiration, and Divine revelation and illumination just like every other true orthodox believer. I believe truth needs to be exalted and falsehood needs to be exposed as being false. I do not ridicule the Bible.
If I am not mistaken, you are the one claiming crossdressing is a mental/emotional disorder. Where is your proof? Not all crossdressers are fetish crossdressers nor are they all non-heterosexual.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 6:03:58 PM
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uschaplain
Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
with love and respect
I wholeheartedly agee. Amen and Amen.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 8:07:57 PM
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LordBeWithMeAlways
Posts: 49
Joined: 11/29/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
1) They are very smart because it sounds complicated and scientific
So if issues have complicated causes and factors, we should just ignore the complexity?
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 9:11:56 PM
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RaeLouiseWall
Posts: 46
Joined: 6/7/2006
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quote:
There is no proof at all that it isn't a mental/emotional disorder. You may add all the tags (heterosexual, non-fetish, etc.) to it but it all boils down to this: men dressing like women and women dressing like men, in a sincere attempt to "blend in" or whatever they try to do, is not normal.
I do not think that anyone in this thread, from the crossdressers to the ministers and all those in between have claimed that crossdressing is “normal”. What has been stressed is that the act of crossdressing is not inherently sinful or an act of rebellion towards God.
quote:
You may not like that,, you are free to attack my use of such a divisive term as "normal." At the end of the day it remains that there is no evidence, none, nada, zip, zilch that says otherwise.
No one on this thread has publicly attacked you at all from what I have read. I will say that your belief is “simply” the opposite of those who have no problem with the concept of crossdressing. It is a matter of your believe versus others and this sort of debate can go round-robin for ever. For what it’s worth, most of the crossdressers that I have dealt with have all had a similar story and therefore “normal” within the guidelines of the crossdressing community. I know this does not square with your thinking, but it is a thought worth at least think about just as those who read your thoughts think about them (at least I do).
quote:
My proof that it is rebellion against God? Well, all lost people (regardless of whether they crossdress or not) are in rebellion against God.
Agreed. Salvation is one of those few true binary things in someone’s life.
quote:
Anyone who says they are born again and yet would do such a thing as to cause confusion and bring reproach upon God and His people would, at best, not have their priorities in order.
Why does the act of crossdressing “cause confusion and bringing reproach upon God”? I am lost here as to your reasoning besides the obvious fact that you are deeply bothered by the whole concept that a normal, non mentally unstable person would have the desire to dress and appear to be the opposite of his/her birth gender. The same argument can be put forth towards anything we don’t understand. If it causes confusion to someone, it must be bad. (This explains why my daughter calls math evil I guess.)
quote:
Let me simplify this for everyone. The term "genetic woman" has been tossed about a bit. Let me ask this - what other kind of "woman" is there? Answer: only one. Barring a genetic defect, you are either male or female. No "genetic male" but with a female "gender."
This is true; however in the transgender community, when people speak of one whose birth gender is male, he is a “genetic male” and female, a “genetic female”. It makes sense in a community where all the “guys” are calling each other with female names, pronouns and such. For those outside this culture the terminology is a bit odd for sure.
quote:
This is nothing more than a very clever ruse by people who have no belief in God to get other people to think:
1) They are very smart because it sounds complicated and scientific
Not true, see above regarding the terms genetic female and genetic male. Most of the “complicated and scientific discussion has been addressed as theoretical as the mental health profession has no clear reason as to why someone is a crossdresser and it has not really been all that complicated to read and at least ponder.
quote:
2) And to get those who do purport to believe in God to veer away from very simple reasoning, thus allowing anything to become possible
People who purport to believe in God and are crossdressers have often spent many long agonizing hours if not days, months and years in prayer, seeking His face, asking for guidance and help. Begging God to “heal” them and so forth. The very “simple reasoning” you talk of is not so simple to a person struggling to understand why he/she is different than others. For those who are not transgendered, this concept is not easy to understand.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible
What you are doing is exactly the same thing from your point of view. You have a feeing that this is wrong, and you have what you strongly believe to be sound Biblical support. You expound these things trying to get those who are not uncomfortable with the notion of crossdressing or transgenderism to veer from that path to yours. What’s the difference?
quote:
3) Thus holding any idea that comes from a Judoe-Christian background to be subject to ridicule when placed against the rigor of "scientific method"
Who is ridiculing anyone here? Those who are crossdressers or explaining things are using known sources to explain things, just as someone would explain any possible genetic, biological or other occurrence. What I see are people who appear to refuse to consider the idea that a crossdresser is simply a crossdresser. There has been no ridiculing of belief’s or person that I have seen. If I am wrong, please show me the posts.
quote:
4) While at the same time allowing them to state and teach things as truth and fact which, by their own method, have not and can not be proven
Again, is this not what you are doing as well? The topic relates to the act of crossdressing and those who are transgendered. Those who fall into this people group are on one side of the issue as are those who are not bothered, or have an open mind to learn about it. And on the other side we have people who don’t seem to understand the issue as it has been presented and rather than take time to possibly learn about the issue, they take the other path and refuse to falter on the matter. Who is right and who is wrong here?
quote:
We now have six pages of debate on the subject based on things that have yet to be proven and touted as fact, while scripture that shows our behavior should be governed (not by our own selfish wants) by love and concern for others dismissed on the ground that...it conflicts with our own selfish wants and desires - or it's just not possible to be that way.
What we have are 6 pages of debate where those who understand a bit about crossdressing from personal experience and relationships with those who identify as such and they have tried to explain it to those who do not understand it.
We have people who have expressed a point of view that crossdressing is not a selfish act, but one that is much closer to an instinctive act that a learned act. We have people that have given scripture references that have merit, and in some ways touch on the subject in a the broadest of terms, in the same manner of any “questionable” act would be touched by the same scripture.
I for one have found this to be a rather interesting thread, and judging by the length of the thread so far, I am guessing I am not alone.
quote:
These people, regardless of why they do what they do, and those with genetic disorders who suffer a great deal, must be dealth with - and this has been my position from the beginning - with love and respect. Doing so does not negate our being able to minister to them to the extent they will allow. But, as with anything else, start laying down clear black and white lines and "thus says the Lord" and there will be objections from the selfish to the pseudo-scientific.
You have used the phrase “them” and “these people” more than once in the posting I am replying to. This comes across as a very caustic term, as it depersonalizes the people you are talking about and does not seem to show love or respect but rather disdain(in my opinion)
_____________________________
All the best,
Rae Louise Wall
@>'-,'-'--,--
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 9:30:36 PM
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LordBeWithMeAlways
Posts: 49
Joined: 11/29/2006
Status: offline
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The second greatest commandment is to love your neighbors. Your viewpoint (whether or not you think it is sinful) is your own. However, you are not showing love by ostracizing transgendered people - by calling them crazy and rebellious, especially if they are barely clinging onto their faith.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 10:01:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4477
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RaeLouiseWall
This verse has been used for a while to show someone who crossdresses that this is bad, sinful and so on. However, noone has ever been able to provide any additional Old or New Testemant scripture to confirm or validate this.
God's word doesn't need to be validated... If the one scripture doesn't stand on it's own what good are any scriptures one might find to support it?
John
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 10:45:18 PM
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shouldknowbetter
Posts: 350
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: RaeLouiseWall
This verse has been used for a while to show someone who crossdresses that this is bad, sinful and so on. However, noone has ever been able to provide any additional Old or New Testemant scripture to confirm or validate this.
God's word doesn't need to be validated... If the one scripture doesn't stand on it's own what good are any scriptures one might find to support it?
John
The intepretation needs to be validated not Gods Word... No one is quaestioning the scriptures only the interpretation on it... Good study requires validation of an interretation with other scripture references that also support or disprove the interpretation...
The major commentary all seem to appoint more than just a simple clothes selection issue concerning Duet 22:5...
_____________________________
Seek Wisdom from God in prayer and scripture
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 11:09:14 PM
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RaeLouiseWall
Posts: 46
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
The intepretation needs to be validated not Gods Word... No one is quaestioning the scriptures only the interpretation on it... Good study requires validation of an interretation with other scripture references that also support or disprove the interpretation...
The major commentary all seem to appoint more than just a simple clothes selection issue concerning Duet 22:5...
This is more of what I meant when I said quote:
New Testemant scripture to confirm or validate this. . The point being there are hundreds upon hundreds of laws and rules in the Old Testament that were put in place for the Hebrews. When one reads the New Testament, one sees we are freed by the law. Jesus preached:
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (NIV, Mark 12:28-31).
Those 2 verses pretty much sum up what the basis of Christ's life, death and resurrection are all about as well as the ten commandments.
Since we saved by grace "By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast (Eph. 2:8-9)." and not works (hence following the OT law) it makes sense that if crossdressing was an issue for the church, then Jesus or the apostles would have rasied the issue at some point.
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All the best,
Rae Louise Wall
@>'-,'-'--,--
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/4/2006 11:23:17 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 937
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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Heres another point to throw in the stewpot. This was a report on TV - some babies were born with ambiguous sexual organs, this was approx the 1950's or so when births such as ths were felt to be kept secret. So the doctor had to decide whether to surgically make this baby a boy or a girl. So in one instance for example, the doctor surgically made this baby into a girl. The girl was not told. She grew up but as she got older she felt more and more like a boy. Finally, in adult age, she found out the truth and she had the surgery to make her into the boy that she could have been if the doctor chose to make the genitals go that way surgically when she was a baby.
Now what say you about that? And what would God's word and us Christians say about that? She was actually born a boy with sexually ambiguous organs, and people brought him up as a girl, but really she could have been a boy if the doctor went that way. (I say it aint his fault he became a girl due to a doctor's choice)
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/5/2006 12:14:56 AM
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jawsmetroid
Posts: 216
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Shorts all year, MN
Status: offline
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To throw some more ingredients into the pot....
Could it be that the transgender doesn't identify with their own gender and can identify and thus 'cure' transgenderism (not to say that it isn't in some cases genetic for some reason, not directly just predispositioned). In the case previously stated, that was a horrible mistake resulting in what seemed to be transgenderism- from what I read, the person was wired to be a guy, but surgery affected the physical appearance. That is my guess.
Identifying with one's gender happens in much the same way as 'curing' or 'changing' homosexuality. See "Loving a Homosexual as Jesus Would" (Book by Chad Thompson) for more information about gender identity, or Family.org.
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I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not implying something unless it's obvious. When in doubt, ask, don't assume.
Somebody shut me up so I can live out loud!- Toby Mac
Chat about the deep things in life...
www.jawsmetroid.blogspot.com
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/5/2006 12:17:46 AM
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jawsmetroid
Posts: 216
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Shorts all year, MN
Status: offline
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And to answer the probable question, transgenderism is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, but it does say "God created them male and female". I think if you are sincerly struggling with this issue and not obsessing on being like the other gender, you are in the clear by continually accepting God's forgiveness bestowed on us 2000 years ago. The obsession, or lust is a sin.
_____________________________
I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not implying something unless it's obvious. When in doubt, ask, don't assume.
Somebody shut me up so I can live out loud!- Toby Mac
Chat about the deep things in life...
www.jawsmetroid.blogspot.com
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 12/5/2006 12:30:27 AM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2397
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
To throw some more ingredients into the pot....
Could it be that the transgender doesn't identify with their own gender and can identify and thus 'cure' transgenderism (not to say that it isn't in some cases genetic for some reason, not directly just predispositioned). In the case previously stated, that was a horrible mistake resulting in what seemed to be transgenderism- from what I read, the person was wired to be a guy, but surgery affected the physical appearance. That is my guess.
Look back at my post #94, and Dave's posts.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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