RE: Any UFC Fans??? (Full Version)

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Yankee Nut -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/5/2008 12:55:18 AM)

I watched the latest UFC Fight cause my dad and my uncle are a hugh UFC fans. I decided to watch it with them and have to admit that now I am a fan.



The_Omega_Syndrome -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/11/2008 10:51:20 AM)

100% garbage. I see so much sloppy technique as the results of poor training. I guess my beef is with them using the words "martial artists." They all claim to be mixed martial artists. I suppose if they just called them brawlers, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. If you ever train with these MMA guys, you'd be amazed by how little they know.



cog41 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/12/2008 8:38:24 AM)

quote:

100% garbage. I see so much sloppy technique as the results of poor training. I guess my beef is with them using the words "martial artists." They all claim to be mixed martial artists. I suppose if they just called them brawlers, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. If you ever train with these MMA guys, you'd be amazed by how little they know.



Well now, I can see your frustration with mixed "martial Arts". But afterall this is a fight not a kata,forms competition or point karate contest. One could say the same about other fighting organizations. For example, "kickboxers" can't box worth a plug nickel. Boxers can't kick. Wrestlers certainly are some of the worst students when it comes to learning to box. Etc.etc.etc....
The point is these guys are only trying to learn enough of one or the other to compete in the cage,octagon or whatever. They must do so to be succesful. If you want to see technique watch one of them in their original style or art.
Again, I understand where you are coming from but just remeber it is a fight between diffferent styles and backgrounds and over the years it has proven no one particular style/art can reign supreme. At least not for long.



designed -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/13/2008 2:58:46 PM)

O.K. I am indeed a lil slow on navigating these forums (just figured out how to use the search feature[8|]) I am a fan of UFC and MMA. My hubby and I have been for about 10 years. Haven't read through all the posts but anyone remember ol Tank Abbit from back in the day? He's got a fight coming up with Kimbo Slice. Sometimes the street brawler types put on a good show.
Anyways, suprised to see this thread on here.



chemdude77 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/13/2008 6:02:49 PM)

Some of the old UFC shows featured Tank Abbott (I remember that Frank Mir submitted him)...



The_Omega_Syndrome -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/14/2008 10:07:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cog41

quote:

100% garbage. I see so much sloppy technique as the results of poor training. I guess my beef is with them using the words "martial artists." They all claim to be mixed martial artists. I suppose if they just called them brawlers, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. If you ever train with these MMA guys, you'd be amazed by how little they know.



Well now, I can see your frustration with mixed "martial Arts". But afterall this is a fight not a kata,forms competition or point karate contest. One could say the same about other fighting organizations. For example, "kickboxers" can't box worth a plug nickel. Boxers can't kick. Wrestlers certainly are some of the worst students when it comes to learning to box. Etc.etc.etc....
The point is these guys are only trying to learn enough of one or the other to compete in the cage,octagon or whatever. They must do so to be succesful. If you want to see technique watch one of them in their original style or art.
Again, I understand where you are coming from but just remeber it is a fight between diffferent styles and backgrounds and over the years it has proven no one particular style/art can reign supreme. At least not for long.



I'm saying they can't even properly execute the 4 or 5 moves they've been practicing all this time. I didn't say anything about forms or point fighting. I actually can't stand point fighting. I'm talking about combat applications of these different techniques. These guys.....suck!



Hiker02 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/14/2008 8:22:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: The_Omega_Syndrome

100% garbage. I see so much sloppy technique as the results of poor training. I guess my beef is with them using the words "martial artists." They all claim to be mixed martial artists. I suppose if they just called them brawlers, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. If you ever train with these MMA guys, you'd be amazed by how little they know.


So which of the top MMA fighters have you trained with?



The_Omega_Syndrome -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/15/2008 9:40:28 AM)

All of 'em. How 'bout that? Do I need logs of specific incidents or something? Video tape? DNA evidence? So, you're going to play that game, are you?



Hiker02 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/15/2008 4:21:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: The_Omega_Syndrome

All of 'em. How 'bout that? Do I need logs of specific incidents or something? Video tape? DNA evidence? So, you're going to play that game, are you?


What game?

When you make blanket statements such as these...

quote:

100% garbage. I see so much sloppy technique as the results of poor training.


quote:

These guys.....suck!


You should expect to be asked to back them up.

Just because someone says they are a MMA fighter doesn't necessarily mean they are a good MMA fighter. I happen to be a wrestler does that mean I could compete at the Olympic level? Of course not it simply means I have spent some time learning how to wrestle.

I apologize if you think I am questioning your talent as a martial artist because I am not. I have just seen to many people talk a mean game because they have competed against some mediocre competition and then come to the conclusion that everyone in that particular sport must "suck". Which is why I asked you to back up your statement.

This is also the internet and everyone talks tough on the internet.[8D]



The_Omega_Syndrome -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/15/2008 4:37:39 PM)

What I was saying is that these guys have such limited knowledge compared to the full scope of martial arts training. I've trained with lots of wannabe fighters that compete in tournaments similar to UFC. I've seen enough of the UFC fights to say that their limited knowledge is obvious in their executions.

Think of it like a chess game. The MMA guys try to win the game by taking out all the opponent's pieces and eventually leaving the king by himself. That's why I say they should leave the "martial arts" out of it and just call themselves brawlers. They compete in the sport of brawling.

I saw one of the guys who trained me get picked apart by his master. They were sparring and his master just embarrased my instructor (to be expected). They play a different kind of chess. They try to manipulate their opponent. Make him move where you want him to. Make your attacks count in a way that forces him in the direction you want, so he basically gives up his turn. Quickly and efficiently create an opening for the king and take him down. Use as little energy as possible.

These UFC guys don't train for that. They only train some combos, elbows and a few ground moves. [:'(]



cog41 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/15/2008 7:44:28 PM)

quote:

I'm saying they can't even properly execute the 4 or 5 moves they've been practicing all this time



UHmmm??? You have a better front leg takedown than Matt Hughes or Shawn Sherk? A better Muy Thai clench with Knee than Anderson Silva? I think they perform these moves pretty well. They happen to be some of the 4-5 moves you talk about. And these 4-5 moves differ for each fighter.

An older more experienced Royce Gracie,more than an expert in Brazilian Jujitsu, was soundly defeated by Matt Hughes,a wrestler who learned more than a few techniques to become a more complete MMA fighter. Matt has sinced yielded to younger Karate practitioner (St. Pierre) who has learned some wrestling and jujitsu techniques to improve his MMA game. Are their moves pretty? Not exactly,but in a fight the opponet isn't exactly performing an arm grab or 2 step sparring move for the other to practice their "technique". I repeat, IT"S A FIGHT! Not a technical sparring match. Their not scored on proper technique or application,their scored on getting the job done. I don't mind watching good katas and forms performance, but Save the proper technique and pretty forms for belt advancement.



The_Omega_Syndrome -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/16/2008 8:29:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cog41

quote:

I'm saying they can't even properly execute the 4 or 5 moves they've been practicing all this time



UHmmm??? You have a better front leg takedown than Matt Hughes or Shawn Sherk? A better Muy Thai clench with Knee than Anderson Silva? I think they perform these moves pretty well. They happen to be some of the 4-5 moves you talk about. And these 4-5 moves differ for each fighter.

An older more experienced Royce Gracie,more than an expert in Brazilian Jujitsu, was soundly defeated by Matt Hughes,a wrestler who learned more than a few techniques to become a more complete MMA fighter. Matt has sinced yielded to younger Karate practitioner (St. Pierre) who has learned some wrestling and jujitsu techniques to improve his MMA game. Are their moves pretty? Not exactly,but in a fight the opponet isn't exactly performing an arm grab or 2 step sparring move for the other to practice their "technique". I repeat, IT"S A FIGHT! Not a technical sparring match. Their not scored on proper technique or application,their scored on getting the job done. I don't mind watching good katas and forms performance, but Save the proper technique and pretty forms for belt advancement.


I don't know why you think combat needs to be sloppy and disheveled. Of course it's not practice and of course it's not sparring. But if someone can't take the various techniques out of the forms and apply them in combat, that person has been wasting a lot of time and money in second rate training.



cog41 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/16/2008 11:52:49 AM)

quote:

don't know why you think combat needs to be sloppy and disheveled.



I'm not saying it "has" to be sloppy. But this is fighting and the opponent usually has a great deal of technique or style of their own. This isn't some good ole boy off the street or hotshot trying to make a name by taking your money or family. Thus you're not always afforded the time or room to porperly position your feet for the perfect round house kick,spinning backfist, or koshi nage(hip throw) or osoto gari(uotter hip throw. But if it works that's all that counts. And the same would hold true for the previously mentioned assailants,however they would not come at you with as many moves as a mma fighter,nor would they most likely know any counters to your moves.

I agrree that technique should be practiced. And practiced properly. How else would you know what and where to apply the move,strike etc etc that is needed at the time. But In a fight it doesn't necessarily have to be pretty or precise. If it's close and it works then great. Precise and correct is better,but if it works great.



Hiker02 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/16/2008 10:17:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: The_Omega_Syndrome

What I was saying is that these guys have such limited knowledge compared to the full scope of martial arts training. I've trained with lots of wannabe fighters that compete in tournaments similar to UFC. I've seen enough of the UFC fights to say that their limited knowledge is obvious in their executions.


Some of the guys have limited knowledge but not all. Cog41 gave a few examples of fighters who are very good at their particular styles.

quote:

Think of it like a chess game. The MMA guys try to win the game by taking out all the opponent's pieces and eventually leaving the king by himself. That's why I say they should leave the "martial arts" out of it and just call themselves brawlers. They compete in the sport of brawling.

I saw one of the guys who trained me get picked apart by his master. They were sparring and his master just embarrased my instructor (to be expected). They play a different kind of chess. They try to manipulate their opponent. Make him move where you want him to. Make your attacks count in a way that forces him in the direction you want, so he basically gives up his turn. Quickly and efficiently create an opening for the king and take him down. Use as little energy as possible.


Are some MMA fighters considered "brawlers" yes, but not all of them. I think Wanderlei Silva is a good example of a "brawler". He simply shows up and tries to pound you until you submit or are unconscious. However, Royce Gracie is a good example of someone who is very skilled in one particular style. When you watch his eyes you can see how he is constantly thinking of ways to manuever his opponent into a position where he can submit him. This sounds very similar to what happened to your instructor.



Hiker02 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/18/2008 5:48:58 PM)

Any predictions on the Penn/Stevenson fight?

Personally I think Penn will submit him before the third round. Penn looks as though he is finally starting to take his MMA career serious.



cog41 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/18/2008 6:21:21 PM)

I hope Stevenson wins. I think Stevenson pulls the upset.



kingdom1111 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/19/2008 1:02:19 PM)

quote:

Any predictions on the Penn/Stevenson fight?


BJ, if his conditioning is ready.


quote:

100% garbage. I see so much sloppy technique as the results of poor training. I guess my beef is with them using the words "martial artists." They all claim to be mixed martial artists. I suppose if they just called them brawlers, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. If you ever train with these MMA guys, you'd be amazed by how little they know.


Omega, If you don't mind me asking what style do you pratice and what belt are you? Do you teach as well?
Just curious.



cog41 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/21/2008 10:21:05 AM)

Too bad for Joe Daddy Stevenson. Maybe BJ will stay in shape here on out.
He'd better, because his weight class his loaded with good fighters.



Hiker02 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (1/24/2008 4:52:41 PM)

All I can say is that Sean Sherk and the entire lightweight division better watch out because Penn is looking really good.



cog41 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (2/5/2008 2:22:37 PM)

Anybody see the Mir/Lezner fight?



chemdude77 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (2/5/2008 10:25:14 PM)

I saw UFC 81; Noguerra submit Tim Sylvia, and of course, Frank Mir submit Brock Lesnar early in the first round.



Hiker02 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (2/6/2008 4:19:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cog41

Anybody see the Mir/Lezner fight?


Yeah I saw it. Lezner just looked like an inexperienced fighter.

He got overconfident and let himself be put in a bad position. I think he will be a good fighter, but he definitely needs to get a few more fights under his belt.



cog41 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (2/20/2008 7:45:11 AM)

Anybody see the fight card for the Henderson/Silva fight?
Lots of good ones. But word has it they won't all be seen on the tube.

What's up? Usually you'll see some fights after the main undercard fights and the main event. Do they they (UFC) mean to stop this?



Hiker02 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (2/29/2008 9:54:34 PM)

There definitely seems to be a lot of good fights on this fight card, but the one I am most looking forward to has to be the Silva/Henderson. I think it's going to be a great fight.

Hopefully Henderson will come out on top.



chemdude77 -> RE: Any UFC Fans??? (3/2/2008 2:23:47 PM)

Evan Tanner returned after two years off to get kneed in the head by Yushin Okami. Anderson Silva submitted Henderson with a few seconds left in the round, Leben won by TKO, Heath beat Chieck Kongo by decision, Koscheck TKO'ed his opponent. I was unhappy with the exclusion of the "undercard" fights from the PPV.

The unaired fights featured Andre Arlovski, Luke Cummo, Diego Sanchez, Dustin Hazlett and Jorges Gurgal (Rich Franklin's training partner).



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