RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion?

RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (Full Version)

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Stephanos -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/25/2006 10:05:13 PM)
As a firm supporter of self defence, even I have my limits. My belief is that the amount of force you use to defend yourself should be directly equal to the amount of force it takes to keep you safe. Now that might sound like a circluar argument, but let me explain. Some one is coming at you with a gun, he is aiming it at you and he could pull the trigger at any moment. In this case, defending yourself by killing the the attacker is justified. Now we have a child under 5 coming at you with a knife. No regardless if that child is even capible of knowingly try to hurt you, if you even think it is ok to defend yourself by kiling the child you are a stinking moron. Even someone with very little if any self defence traning, could disarm a child with out serious if any harm. And if you would have killed that child, you should go to jail for murder. Self-Defence is a non-issue in a case like that. Further more, if it was the child or you, I would think that every Christian would always choose the child first. After all, "Greater love has no man than he who would give his life for another."

SovereignIsHe -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/25/2006 10:09:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephanos As a firm supporter of self defence, even I have my limits. My belief is that the amount of force you use to defend yourself should be directly equal to the amount of force it takes to keep you safe. Now that might sound like a circluar argument, but let me explain. Some one is coming at you with a gun, he is aiming it at you and he could pull the trigger at any moment. In this case, defending yourself by killing the the attacker is justified. Now we have a child under 5 coming at you with a knife. No regardless if that child is even capible of knowingly try to hurt you, if you even think it is ok to defend yourself by kiling the child you are a stinking moron. Even someone with very little if any self defence traning, could disarm a child with out serious if any harm. And if you would have killed that child, you should go to jail for murder. Self-Defence is a non-issue in a case like that. Further more, if it was the child or you, I would think that every Christian would always choose the child first. After all, "Greater love has no man than he who would give his life for another." Amen John

big-bri -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/25/2006 10:10:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tafkam Are you saying the law of the land trumps God's law? I am saying that they are different. "Murder" has a legal definition in our legal system, and abortion does not fit that definition. quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe The laws of God are different and they are supreme, they trump the laws of the land. I don't know if this will gel for you, but your assertion would never hold up in court.

bklynexcatholic -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/25/2006 10:26:41 PM)
It's impossible. It's either a human life or it isn't. If you feel it is a human life, there is nothing that can make abortion permissible. If you don't feel it's a human life there's no reason to oppose it at all. So where do you stand?

SovereignIsHe -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/25/2006 10:29:17 PM)
quote: quote: The laws of God are different and they are supreme, they trump the laws of the land. I don't know if this will gel for you, but your assertion would never hold up in court. It doesn't have to gel for me, because I know if a person were to wave the law of the land in the face of God as just cause for committing murder He wouldn't accept it, and for those who claim the right in the name of God, woe to them.... The state doesn't have the final word on what is murder or not, God does...The unjust courts and those who support them will answer for their deeds, and the more authority granted to them by God the harder they shall fall... John

GraduateMom -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/25/2006 10:34:24 PM)
quote: You are saying that if a child threatened a person's life they could defend themselves, up to the point of taking the child's life, correct? If the only option were kill or be killed, yes. However, I can't imagine a situation as has been suggested here where a young child could threaten an adult with certain death outside the womb.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/25/2006 10:53:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GraduateMom quote: You are saying that if a child threatened a person's life they could defend themselves, up to the point of taking the child's life, correct? If the only option were kill or be killed, yes. However, I can't imagine a situation as has been suggested here where a young child could threaten an adult with certain death outside the womb. What just cause would the person have for defending themselves against someone outside the womb, child or not? John

revdrew -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 1:05:48 AM)
We've gotten away from the original question of this topic. Is it possible for a Christian to be "pro-abortion?" No. Is it possible for a Christian to be "pro-choice?" Yes. Perhaps that Christian is wrong, but if being wrong makes you not a Christian, than we're all in trouble. I believe that given our sinful world, the best way to minimize the damge caused by abortion may be to keep it legal. I am not convinced of this. I could be wrong, but I resent being called a murderer and a non-Christian for thinking this way. You may continue to attack if you would like, but I don't see how that will change anything. Again, I hate abortion, and I take steps actively to prevent it from occuring. I do not fit the typical definition of "pro-life." Or "Pro-choice." And a lot of America is like me. If pro-lifers want to make any progress, they'd do well to start engaging people like me and stop calling us murderers. I also believe that recently, the pro-life movement has been a failure. Abortion has been far more common under G.W. Bush than under Clinton. (Source: God's Politics, by Jim Wallis). Why? Can't say for sure, but my guess is that greater justice for the poor (which scripture has plenty more to say about than abortion, by the way) has something to do with it, and greater education on contraception may play a part, too. I want abortion never to happen, but I am willing to allow it to remain legal while we work in other ways to minimize, and some day, eliminate it.

Stephanos -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 1:26:35 AM)
How about there are more abortions because America's population is getting bigger, having more premarital sex, and falling farther away from God...I think THAT has the most to do with why abortions are more prevalent today rather than during Clintions years.

revdrew -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 1:31:19 AM)
That would make sense. However, it would not explain why there was less abotion under Clinton than Bush I.

revmitchell -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 1:55:43 AM)
Let's condone murdering unborn children while we find a way to stop it. I do not see reasonable logic in that.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 2:42:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: revdrew We've gotten away from the original question of this topic. Is it possible for a Christian to be "pro-abortion?" No. Is it possible for a Christian to be "pro-choice?" Yes. Perhaps that Christian is wrong, but if being wrong makes you not a Christian, than we're all in trouble. Until the denial factor on this issue it done away there is no hope for getting it resolved... Pro-choice is really no different than pro-abortion... Silence doesn't absolve one from the sin... Christians are held to a higher standard... It said that a believer to know what is right and to not do it, it's a sin... The bible is clear that one can sin by not acting...It's a fallacy to claim there is some grey area on the matter and that people are just not aware of the issue. While the certain parts of the bible can more difficult in regards to prophecy and such the parts surround what is right and just in the sight of God are rather clear. quote: I believe that given our sinful world, the best way to minimize the damge caused by abortion may be to keep it legal. I am not convinced of this. I could be wrong, but I resent being called a murderer and a non-Christian for thinking this way. You may continue to attack if you would like, but I don't see how that will change anything. Wonderful logic... The murder of a million unborn children somehow minimizes the damge caused by abortion... I don't think those million unborn dead children agree with your logic... quote: Again, I hate abortion, and I take steps actively to prevent it from occuring. I do not fit the typical definition of "pro-life." Or "Pro-choice." And a lot of America is like me. If pro-lifers want to make any progress, they'd do well to start engaging people like me and stop calling us murderers. Those who commit murder bring the charge upon their own head, as well those who support murder bring the same upon them... They are not condemned by accusation, but by their own words and deeds... I for one don't feel the need to meet those who support mass murder in the middle of the field... In my mind it creates the illusion the side that supports abortion some validity... quote: I also believe that recently, the pro-life movement has been a failure. Abortion has been far more common under G.W. Bush than under Clinton. (Source: God's Politics, by Jim Wallis). Why? Can't say for sure, but my guess is that greater justice for the poor (which scripture has plenty more to say about than abortion, by the way) has something to do with it, and greater education on contraception may play a part, too. Actually since abortion is murder it is actually mentioned in a very direct and serious manner in the bible... Btw... Where is contraception mentioned in the bible? quote: I want abortion never to happen, but I am willing to allow it to remain legal while we work in other ways to minimize, and some day, eliminate it. Do you have a biblical template for this plan of attack? John

GraduateMom -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 3:53:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: GraduateMom quote: You are saying that if a child threatened a person's life they could defend themselves, up to the point of taking the child's life, correct? If the only option were kill or be killed, yes. However, I can't imagine a situation as has been suggested here where a young child could threaten an adult with certain death outside the womb. What just cause would the person have for defending themselves against someone outside the womb, child or not? John I believe it is just to kill someone if that was the ONLY way to stop them from killing you. I'm pro-life. I believe that the only justifiable reason for an abortion is to save the mother�s life. I have no idea how often this even comes up in this day and age with the medical advances we have in this country.

momfree -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 10:08:12 AM)
Posting cold. Sorry but the assertion and insistance and ranting and raving that pro-choice equals pro-abortion or pro-murder is nothing more then ridiculous rhetoric that does NOTHING to help the opinions of pro-lifers. They do NOTHING but harm themselves and their position. Pro-choice peolpe will never listen to the pro-life side and maybe contemplate for a minute until such day (which won't happen) that they UNDERSTAND what pro-choice actually means and not what the rhetoric propaganda they've been fed tells them it is. Till then all it is is a stupid political debacle and reason to fight amongst the two camps w/out doing anything to help solve the problem. It baffles me. If everyone that so vehemently argues and spends so much time obsessed with this issue actually DID something for every minute they spent spewing rhetoric, something actually might get accomplished. Women and children might be helped. It is the most hypocritical yet "safe" bandwagon to jump on, and the rest of the world sees that. Not to mention that most all pro-lifers not only are outraged at abortion (which obviously is something that ALL sides want to see less or none of) but are also just as staunchly opposed to birth control or even the morning after pill (which, is nothing more then a double dose of contraceptive pills). Another thing I do not understand is that if all pro-lifers are willing and is society willing and able to take care of millions of unwanted children? How many unwanted children will you adopt? Oh, that's right, there's millions waiting to adopt right? Oh yeah, what about a child with severe disabilities, the crack child, the FAS child, the minority children, that's right, people LINING up the doors to help right? But wait, the pro-life side is also against even homosexuals adopting children so that leaves even LESS willing to care for and give a decent, loving home for children. The hypocrisy to me is astounding. Put your money where your mouth is and try to MAKE a difference then!

revdrew -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 11:46:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe Until the denial factor on this issue it done away there is no hope for getting it resolved... Pro-choice is really no different than pro-abortion... Pro-free speech is the same as pro-pornography. Pro-defending the country is the same as pro-war. Pro-free market is the same as pro-sweatshops. Anti-prohibition is the same as pro-alcoholism. Pro-second amendment is the same as pro-shooting people. All of these arguements are just as stupid as your above statement. quote: The murder of a million unborn children somehow minimizes the damge caused by abortion... I don't think those million unborn dead children agree with your logic... Of course they wouldn't! I DON'T LIKE THINGS THE WAY THEY ARE. I NEVER SAID I DO. I want change. I've only been asserting that thier are Christians that would like to attack this problem in a different way. (Which might be a good idea, since thus far the pro-life movement has been a study in failure.) quote: I for one don't feel the need to meet those who support mass murder in the middle of the field... In my mind it creates the illusion the side that supports abortion some validity... Fine. Don't meet them in "the middle of the field." Just know that by not compromising, you allow more and more preventable abortions to happen. You are every bit as responsibile for murder, by your logic. quote: Do you have a biblical template for this plan of attack? Yes. I will prevent the need for abortion by encourging people not to have sex withou being married. I will work to create communities that care for children, and that show a special concern for children in need. I will support adoption.

Dubya -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 11:47:59 AM)
momfree, I agree that "ranting and raving" does neither side any good. From the tone of your post - it sounds like "Pro-Choice" ranting to me. The assertion that pro-lifers are doing nothing is flat out wrong. Crisis Pregnancy Centers have been springing up all over the country. These are privately funded clinics which counsel young women and provide real CHOICE - unlike what is received at Planned Parenthood clinics. You also accuse pro-lifers of hypocrisy yet to me the very label used for the other side of this debate "Pro-Choice" is nothing less than a deceptive use of language - at the very least it is an incomplete statement which must be answered - what "choice" is being advocated? The "choice" is to prevent the birth of a child. Why not be honest and use the label "Pro-Abortion" since that is what is really being advocated? The subject of "unwanted children" is another way of derailing the subject. Clearly the "choice" you advocate is the elimination of those children. Don't try to sidestep the issue by accusing pro-lifers of not adopting children. The subject of disabled children without parents is tragic indeed so is your solution to simply eliminate them so you don't need to shed your tears over their situation? If you see this as a worthy area in which you can devote your efforts then do so and stop pointing your finger at others. As far as the subject of adoptions are concerned, have you not heard of the difficulty in many cities for a white couple to adopt a minority child? Yes, these children need homes in which they will be loved but to be denied a home because of the color of their skin is unconscienable. Yet this is being done on the basis of "cultural identity" - and let me be very clear this is NOT a conservative catch-phrase! It seems to me there is plenty of hypocrisy to go around and the "Pro-choice" side has plenty to answer for.

Bas -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 12:06:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: martyfran quote: Could you imagine Joseph driving his wife to an abortion clinic with the justification that she was not a willing participant to have Christ? Actually, Joseph did have that choice, but he chose not to. He could have had Mary stoned to death, but his initial decision was against even that penalty prescribed by law. I never thought of that. Had the Jewish law been followed, in stoning an (adulterous) pregnant woman, you would also legally be killing the baby. Obvious. I don't know how that detail never clicked.

Dubya -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 12:20:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bas quote: ORIGINAL: martyfran quote: Could you imagine Joseph driving his wife to an abortion clinic with the justification that she was not a willing participant to have Christ? Actually, Joseph did have that choice, but he chose not to. He could have had Mary stoned to death, but his initial decision was against even that penalty prescribed by law. I never thought of that. Had the Jewish law been followed, in stoning an (adulterous) pregnant woman, you would also legally be killing the baby. Obvious. I don't know how that detail never clicked. Joseph chose life! This does not make him "pro-choice" it makes him pro-life! Which is yet another reason the label "pro-choice" is misleading - which choice is being advocated - the choice of eliminating the pre-born life!

momfree -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 12:24:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dubya momfree, I agree that "ranting and raving" does neither side any good. From the tone of your post - it sounds like "Pro-Choice" ranting to me. The assertion that pro-lifers are doing nothing is flat out wrong. Crisis Pregnancy Centers have been springing up all over the country. These are privately funded clinics which counsel young women and provide real CHOICE - unlike what is received at Planned Parenthood clinics. You also accuse pro-lifers of hypocrisy yet to me the very label used for the other side of this debate "Pro-Choice" is nothing less than a deceptive use of language - at the very least it is an incomplete statement which must be answered - what "choice" is being advocated? The "choice" is to prevent the birth of a child. Why not be honest and use the label "Pro-Abortion" since that is what is really being advocated? The subject of "unwanted children" is another way of derailing the subject. Clearly the "choice" you advocate is the elimination of those children. Don't try to sidestep the issue by accusing pro-lifers of not adopting children. The subject of disabled children without parents is tragic indeed so is your solution to simply eliminate them so you don't need to shed your tears over their situation? If you see this as a worthy area in which you can devote your efforts then do so and stop pointing your finger at others. As far as the subject of adoptions are concerned, have you not heard of the difficulty in many cities for a white couple to adopt a minority child? Yes, these children need homes in which they will be loved but to be denied a home because of the color of their skin is unconscienable. Yet this is being done on the basis of "cultural identity" - and let me be very clear this is NOT a conservative catch-phrase! It seems to me there is plenty of hypocrisy to go around and the "Pro-choice" side has plenty to answer for. To answer a couple things. Yes I know all about Crisis Pregnany Centers, I have one in my neighborhood. And, I have supported for the last 7 years with monetary contributions and ongoing donations (and no, I have not supported PP). This is a very small number of people doing this in contrast to the sheer number of ones willing to yell "murderer" yet do not much about it. Let me explain pro-choice, which is really a waste of time because you will still hold to the assertion that pro-choice advocates abortion. I support the women's right to choose (and most definately would prefer and pray she carries that child to term). But it is her choice, at this point in time, it is LEGAL in this country and NOT a crime and therforth it is a women's choice. If a 14yr old teenager is raped by her father and conceives a baby, I support her choice to choose to carry to term, to place for adoption, to raise the child or to terminate the pregnancy or take the morning after pill when she gets to the hospital (or any women for that matter). It is just as disturbing to pro-lifers and the VAST majority of pro-choicers that abortion (surgical or with the RU ) is used as a method of birth control also. I don't advocate abortion, I don't recommend it, I don't support it. But, it is a women's right to choose I support. The consequences will be hers to face and the decision one between her and God. Most pro-choice people I have met are typically against abortion for themselves but it is about respecting a women's choice in the matter EVEN IF we would hope and pray she didn't terminate. Want a solution? Well here is probably one of dozen other ways. Let's make contraception and education more readily available to young ones. Go ahead and teach absitenence also. Why is it that the same ones that scream baby killers are the same ones that ALSO oppose the readily available use and education on birth control and contraception for young ones today?????? Where is the logic? Again, I don't advocate the choice of "eliminating" any child, disabled, unwanted or anything else. I'm asking, what are pro-lifers doing to care for these unwanted children? It's not sidestepping the issue, it's a valid point that I have yet had ONE staunch pro-lifer be able to give a reasonable response to. They typically resort to "Uh....oh well, you are just pro-muder". Give an answer to that please? Who will take in all these unwanted children? I'm not saying they should have been aborted...I'm asking, if pro-lifers do not agree a women has a choice, then WHO will carry the consequences???

Bas -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 12:25:44 PM)
quote: Joseph chose life! This does not make him "pro-choice" it makes him pro-life! Which is yet another reason the label "pro-choice" is misleading - which choice is being advocated - the choice of eliminating the pre-born life! Oh, I agree totally. What I think is interesting is that the Jewish law, at least in that instance, approves of the killing of the un-born.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 1:48:10 PM)
quote: Posting cold. Sorry but the assertion and insistance and ranting and raving that pro-choice equals pro-abortion or pro-murder is nothing more then ridiculous rhetoric that does NOTHING to help the opinions of pro-lifers. They do NOTHING but harm themselves and their position. Pro-choice peolpe will never listen to the pro-life side and maybe contemplate for a minute until such day (which won't happen) that they UNDERSTAND what pro-choice actually means and not what the rhetoric propaganda they've been fed tells them it is. Till then all it is is a stupid political debacle and reason to fight amongst the two camps w/out doing anything to help solve the problem. It baffles me. If everyone that so vehemently argues and spends so much time obsessed with this issue actually DID something for every minute they spent spewing rhetoric, something actually might get accomplished. Women and children might be helped. Problem with the above is that the pro-murder/abortion/choice crowd thinks women and even children are helped by the right to abort... Of course the above is the typical rant to cover support for abortion... quote: It is the most hypocritical yet "safe" bandwagon to jump on, and the rest of the world sees that. Given what the world see in regards to what is right and wrong in the sight of God I your statement doesn't carry much weight... quote: Not to mention that most all pro-lifers not only are outraged at abortion (which obviously is something that ALL sides want to see less or none of) but are also just as staunchly opposed to birth control or even the morning after pill (which, is nothing more then a double dose of contraceptive pills). Do you have any biblical support for birth control? quote: Another thing I do not understand is that if all pro-lifers are willing and is society willing and able to take care of millions of unwanted children? How many unwanted children will you adopt? Oh, that's right, there's millions waiting to adopt right? Oh yeah, what about a child with severe disabilities, the crack child, the FAS child, the minority children, that's right, people LINING up the doors to help right? Not a SINGLE mention of personal responsiblity... A person from another planet would think people are forced to have sex simply to carry a child to term... quote: But wait, the pro-life side is also against even homosexuals adopting children so that leaves even LESS willing to care for and give a decent, loving home for children. I let the above stand on its own merit... quote: The hypocrisy to me is astounding. Put your money where your mouth is and try to MAKE a difference then! The lack of biblical reasoning is what is astounding... In a single post, we have justification for homosexuals, support for abortion because the alleged sin of omission of others, and not a mention of responsibility of those who create the problem to start with... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 2:16:58 PM)
quote: quote: Until the denial factor on this issue it done away there is no hope for getting it resolved... Pro-choice is really no different than pro-abortion... Pro-free speech is the same as pro-pornography. Pro-defending the country is the same as pro-war. Pro-free market is the same as pro-sweatshops. Anti-prohibition is the same as pro-alcoholism. Pro-second amendment is the same as pro-shooting people. All of these arguements are just as stupid as your above statement. Pro-choice serves one purpose, to allow abortion.... Your comparison points aren't the same... For instance, Free speech encompasses many things, while pro-choice is a singular item, it pertains to abortion... No GOOD stems for pro-choice, while good does stem from free market, 2nd Amendment, and Defense of the nation... quote: quote: The murder of a million unborn children somehow minimizes the damge caused by abortion... I don't think those million unborn dead children agree with your logic... Of course they wouldn't! I DON'T LIKE THINGS THE WAY THEY ARE. I NEVER SAID I DO. I want change. I've only been asserting that thier are Christians that would like to attack this problem in a different way. (Which might be a good idea, since thus far the pro-life movement has been a study in failure.) You're are not going to solve the problem from a Christian angle promoting the unjust taking of life... The idea that sinning it going to stop sinning is ridiculous... quote: Fine. Don't meet them in "the middle of the field." Just know that by not compromising, you allow more and more preventable abortions to happen. You are every bit as responsibile for murder, by your logic. To meet them in the middle is to say they are have a valid reason for murdering x number of children... Can you grasp that? If this debate was taken outside the womb I really doubt we'd be talking about compromising on the mass murder of a million people... Your logic would've had folks work out a deal where the Nazi's baked less people. quote: quote: Do you have a biblical template for this plan of attack? Yes. I will prevent the need for abortion by encourging people not to have sex withou being married. I will work to create communities that care for children, and that show a special concern for children in need. I will support adoption. All the while supporting the right of people to murder the unborn, you seem to have left out that part... Remember your biblical template must include your desire for murder to remain legal while you convince people who believe they have a RIGHT to kill that they shouldn't have sex... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 2:45:56 PM)
quote: I support the women's right to choose (and most definately would prefer and pray she carries that child to term). But it is her choice, at this point in time, it is LEGAL in this country and NOT a crime and therforth it is a women's choice. Unless the word of God is null and void in the debate what the state delcares legal isn't a defense for the action itself or support for right... God's law is supreme and trumps man's law that don't align with God's. For the record the state is sinful for allowing abortion and of course those who request and perform them are guilty of murder as per the Word of God... quote: If a 14yr old teenager is raped by her father and conceives a baby, I support her choice to choose to carry to term, to place for adoption, to raise the child or to terminate the pregnancy or take the morning after pill when she gets to the hospital (or any women for that matter). The girl has no right in the sight of God to take the life of the child, no more than she would have the right to take the life of the person who raped her after the fact. Vengeance is God's... quote: It is just as disturbing to pro-lifers and the VAST majority of pro-choicers that abortion (surgical or with the RU ) is used as a method of birth control also. The above is a fallacy... Any amount of restriction regarding abortion is met with screams from the pro-choice crowd as an assault on the right to abort... I don't advocate abortion, I don't recommend it, I don't support it. But, it is a women's right to choose I support. quote: The consequences will be hers to face and the decision one between her and God. Really... Your own words... ...I'm asking, if pro-lifers do not agree a women has a choice, then WHO will carry the consequences??? Btw... Sin doesn't reside in a bubble... Abortion degrades life accross the board... quote: Most pro-choice people I have met are typically against abortion for themselves but it is about respecting a women's choice in the matter EVEN IF we would hope and pray she didn't terminate. If this were true there wouldn't be million abortions a year... quote: Want a solution? Well here is probably one of dozen other ways. Let's make contraception and education more readily available to young ones. Go ahead and teach absitenence also. Why is it that the same ones that scream baby killers are the same ones that ALSO oppose the readily available use and education on birth control and contraception for young ones today?????? Where is the logic? The best logic on the subject is the bible... Sorry... Contraception in the mind of young ones is nothing short of a "go ahead and have sex we give up..." quote: Again, I don't advocate the choice of "eliminating" any child, disabled, unwanted or anything else. You support a woman's right to abort but, you don't advocate the choice of "eliminating" any child, disabled, unwanted or anything else. That make no sense... You can't support and not advocate the same thing... quote: I'm asking, what are pro-lifers doing to care for these unwanted children? It's not sidestepping the issue, it's a valid point that I have yet had ONE staunch pro-lifer be able to give a reasonable response to. They typically resort to "Uh....oh well, you are just pro-muder". Give an answer to that please? Who will take in all these unwanted children? I'm not saying they should have been aborted...I'm asking, if pro-lifers do not agree a women has a choice, then WHO will carry the consequences??? If your neighbor robs the market down the street are you going to go to jail for the person? No... Should you, no... Are you wrong to say I didn't rob the store, no... Who should carry the consequences for their actions? Sorry... The desire to speak up for the murdered unborn children doesn't place the consequences of the sins surrounding the situation onto my shoulders... John

momfree -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 3:29:05 PM)
"You can't support and not advocate the same thing... " In your opinion that is....supporting a womens right to choose is NOT the same as advocating abortion. But in your close mindedness you'll never see the difference. The rest is all the same rhetoric. As far as the word of God vs mans law. It is the law of this country and we are told to uphold the laws of the country. It is not illegal. And in actuality the Bible is silent on the matter of abortion. You can quote the typical Scriptures the pro-lifers do that they choose to interpret as a law against abortion but I do not agree that it means such in any which way thereforth a discussion of such sort would be a waste of time for you. I do believe in Christ and His word, but the Sciptures used are really a stretch of interpretation but that's ok, you have your views, I have mine.

big-bri -> RE: is it possible for Christians to be pro-abortion? (12/26/2006 3:40:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: momfree And in actuality the Bible is silent on the matter of abortion. You can quote the typical Scriptures the pro-lifers do that they choose to interpret as a law against abortion but I do not agree that it means such in any which way I whole-heartedly agree. Actually, this thread has thus far been refreshingly free of the typical misapplication of scripture. Instead, I see lots of emotional tirades that amount to nothing in terms of a fruitful discussion about the topic. It is just one of those things from which people cannot seem to detach emotionally.

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