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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/21/2005 11:16:47 PM
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jgarden
Posts: 62
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Clinton made no excuses about protesting the Vietnam War. Bush's position is more complex. What was the motive for joining the National Guard instead of seeing active service in Vietnam? How did he end up in the Alabama, not the Texas National Guard? Was he involved in political activities that required he stay stateside?
Until these questions are answered, no amount of diversionary tactics can protect a man whose orders have resulted in the deaths of approximately 2 000 young Americans.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2005 3:11:46 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 6799
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Clinton made no excuses about protesting the Vietnam War. Bush's position is more complex. What was the motive for joining the National Guard instead of seeing active service in Vietnam? How did he end up in the Alabama, not the Texas National Guard? Was he involved in political activities that required he stay stateside?
Until these questions are answered, no amount of diversionary tactics can protect a man whose orders have resulted in the deaths of approximately 2 000 young Americans.
These were election questions which amounted to nothing; election is over.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2005 9:59:00 AM
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haldir
Posts: 559
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I am tired of the same retread objections.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2005 3:21:34 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tensparks
Fritz, is this thread only for negative criticizm?
Nope.
It is the ONLY thread for negative criticizm.
It is NOT the thread for ONLY negative criticizm.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2005 10:17:20 PM
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jgarden
Posts: 62
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: haldir
I am tired of the same retread objections.
I'm tired of trying to get past the diversionary, retread answers. I've yet to here a "straight" answer as to why Bush chose the National Guard in Alabama and not active duty in Vietnam. Inquiring minds want to know - Bush supporters don't.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2005 12:16:49 AM
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Stephanos
Posts: 1110
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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Not to mention the answer has been given before. But when faced with logic and reaons why their arguments are idiotic, liberals always fall back on bashing.
To answer your question jgarden, if you even do the slightest reserch into the facts you quickly will come to your own answer. But running under the assumption that either A) you are too lazy to look for your self, or B) you are afraid you will be shown as wrong. Let me tell you.
President Bush was infact assigned to the Texas National Guard for the first 4 years of his duty. From 1968 to 1972. During this time he was considered an top rated pilot acumilating more than required amounts of points. In 1972 Bush requested transfer to the Alabama National guard so he may be involved with a Senate campain for one Winton Blount. During this time Bush stopped flying, but still attended the required drill exersizes. In late 1973 President Bush requested a discharge from the military to attend Harvard. He was given a honorable discharge after serving 5 months 4 months and 5 days of his original 6 year commitment.
So again if you cared to look you would see that everything was perfectly straight and Bush did NOTHING wrong in his time in the Guard.
But again, by saying Bush was wrong to join the Gurad because he wanted to avoid service in Vietnam is two things. First it shows pure ignorance to the fact that Guard Units could be and were called up for the Vietnam war. A COWARD is one who went to Canada or England to avoid getting drafted. Second, you are slamming every solder, airman, marine and sailor that has ever served as a Gurads man or in the Reserves. You are saying they too are cowards because they did not wish to join the full military. And frankly that makes you a few words that i can not say on this board. And dont give me the line about "Im not disrespecting the Guard" because you are, even if you dont realize it.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2005 11:50:00 AM
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pthalomarie
Posts: 216
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Yeah, I admit I can't cite the source in this (the women has said some ten trillion words over the course of the last few weeks, most of which are meaningless rants) but even if I did cite a source, when has the left ever cared about facts?
You've just disqualified yourself from even commenting on her. This is an admission to gossip: you have no evidence, so you speculate (or worse yet, you make something up.)
If it's too hard to find quotes that illustrate the charges you're making, then don't make charges.
quote:
ORIGINAL: musikman
You're conveniently forgetting that Bush's squadron could have been called up at any time. For whatever reason, they were not.
Are we then to assume that the other men in Bush's squadron were also too cowardly to "see active combat"
Set aside Bush himself for a moment. Are you at least willing to agree that many parents with connections arranged to place their sons in places that allowed them to avoid going to war, without it looking as if they were avoiding military service?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
But to go on what is more cowardly? To actualy serve in the military during Vietnam? Or to run to Britian like the former President Clinton did? Or run to Canada like hundreds of liberal hypies did.
I don't see any difference between what Bush did, and running of to Canada or England. The difference is that the people ran off to Canada had to take more drastic measures, because mommy and daddy had no connections to protect them.
If anything, what Bush did was worse, because he and his family supported the war.
quote:
But when faced with logic and reaons why their arguments are idiotic, liberals always fall back on bashing.
As opposed to conservatives, who treat the likes of Cindy Sheehan with kid gloves. 
Like it or not, conservatives are responsible for the current political climate. From Rush to Newt to Ann to Karl, they've approached all issues with a "seek and destroy" attitude. So Cindy Sheehan becomes just as sinister as Kerry, who is as sinister as Clinton, who is as sinister as Bin Laden. There is no distinction made between any of them; they are all the enemy, and they all must be treated in a way that conspicuously leaves Christ out of the picture.
quote:
So again if you cared to look you would see that everything was perfectly straight and Bush did NOTHING wrong in his time in the Guard.
Uh-huh. Sure..... 
quote:
ORIGINAL: haldir
I am tired of the same retread objections.
That's like saying that you're tired of people bringing up the Olympic bombing and the bombed clinics when they talk about Eric Rudolph. They're "retread objections" because they're significant questions of ethics and character that need to be kept to the forefront.
_____________________________
Have You shared the Gospel with someone today?
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2005 1:54:41 PM
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Stephanos
Posts: 1110
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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Again pthalomarie by saying president Bush is the same as Clinton by joining the National Guard, you are putting the same negative immage on all service members who served as Guardsmen. And for that i condem you!
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2005 4:02:33 PM
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rabstark
Posts: 168
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Again pthalomarie by saying president Bush is the same as Clinton by joining the National Guard, you are putting the same negative immage on all service members who served as Guardsmen. And for that i condem you!
By extension, pthalomarie, jgarden, and others like them are also condemning servicemen in the Air Force and Navy who also joined up because they didn't want to get drafted (btw, John Kerry joined the Navy for the same reasons... getting sent to Vietnam was just bad luck). A lot of young men during that time used the loop-holes in the draft rules to avoid getting drafted, but they still served, rather than taking a cowardly or treasonous alternative. The truth is, anyone who served, regardless of branch, had a good chance of getting sent over there. In the President's case, he joined the Air National Guard, was allowed to get out a couple of months early because he had accumulated more "points" than he needed for discharge, and was considered a top pilot. And anyone who thinks his duty was a nice, safe, cushy job, doesn't know much about flying fighters... particularly the one he flew. The F-102 was fast, maneuverable, and had a bad habit of killing under-qualified pilots. My father served as a combat air controller for a wing and later a squadron of them in Alaska and Washington State at around the time Pres. Bush was flying them in Texas. The pilots he worked with had a definite love/hate relationship with their aircraft.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2005 5:24:14 PM
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soblessed53
Posts: 118
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: U.S.A. Still A Free Society!
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I am saying that I think it seems that non-supporters were deliberately mislead by the OP to think we could express our stance, UNHARRASSED,and that is not the case at all! I have no idea what kind of thread Fritz created,but I am sure he does,so no,I do not question him knowing what kind of thread he created. But it sure mislead me. And where do you get your definition of critique? It most certainly doesn't come from webster's online dict.,and it is not commonly used the way you claim! It would not matter if there were videos,you all would swear they were meaningless as you do everything else,as long as it's on a republican's foot it is totally innoncent,but if it is on a democrat's foot,ohhhh now that is another case entirely! Well I do not dislike Bush merely because of which party he belongs too,they are equally corrupt in my view,it is because of his lies!
< Message edited by soblessed53 -- 8/23/2005 5:32:31 PM >
_____________________________
If the Radical Muslims laid down their weapons there would be peace
If the Jews laid down their weapons they would cease to exist
Casual Christians may become Christian Casualties
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2005 6:27:05 PM
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Genuflect
Posts: 44
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline
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Okay, I have stayed out of here until now.
What frosted me on Bush for all time was earlier this year when Mr. Bush personally and publicly responded to a terrible incident in my neck of the woods.
In the town of Libby, MT there has been a tremendous amount of documented medical cases of a deadly degree of asbestos contamination wrought by the irresponsible activites of a virmiculite mining company that filed for bankruptcy in 2001. A class-action lawsuit was filed on behalf of workers and their families who were unwittingly exposed to toxic levels of tremolite asbestos.
In his state of the union speech, just days after the lawsuit was filed, President Bush insulted the suffering populace of Libby by saying, "Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims"- this in the same speech in which he declared, "one of the deepest values of our country is compassion"!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/02/20050202-11.html
This article is a good summation of the severity of the situation in Libby, and points out the scandalous evasiveness by W.R. Grace & Co. who owned and operated the mine, yet enjoyed the sympathy and attempted amnesty of the Bush administration:
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/21270/
Here Mr. Bush and his conservative elite have demonstrated in spades the degree of their callused cupidity by trivializing the very real suffering of the people of Libby, MT and impuging what is left of their dignity.
I have been resolutely anti-Bush ever since, not that I was a huge fan before.
_____________________________
Jenny Flecks
"Inter faeces et urinam nascimur":
St. Augustine
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