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RE: Godmen - 4/4/2007 3:31:31 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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From the “GodMen” web site
About.....
“Welcome to GodMen
Welcome to GodMen, where you'll find power, honesty, courage and your tribe of brothers.
The truth is that on any given Sunday, 60% of church attendees are women, and something about church today is keeping men away. We are attempting to create a worship place for men that looks nothing like church. It is a place where men of no religion and men who have left the church break bread with followers of Jesus. Where simply being a man, created in Gods image, is celebrated. An environment familiar with and conducive to the way men are made comfortable and the unique way men interact.......”
Since when is a church gathering supposed to be “a place where men .....break bread with followers of Jesus. Where simply being a man, created in Gods image, is celebrated.
By way of comparison, Jesus said:
Luke 22:19
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Compare with:
1 Cor 11:23-26
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
We’re supposed to break bread IN REMEMBRANCE OF CHRIST, “For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”
GodMen says something entirely man-centered on their “about” page.
That’s pure apostasy - plain and simple.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Godmen - 4/4/2007 5:31:44 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1074
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
We’re supposed to break bread IN REMEMBRANCE OF CHRIST, “For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”
GodMen says something entirely man-centered on their “about” page.
That’s pure apostasy - plain and simple.
I've been a Christian for 20 years now. I did not grow up in the church. I have come to understand communion in relation to the passages you cite. At the same time, I have come to know breaking bread as fellowship. Having not grown up in the church, I used to be very hostile to anything resembling Christianity. After accepting Christ as my savior, I have learned that He is not about religion, the following of a set of rules and rituals, rather He is about relationship. He is about breaking bread with other believers each and every day, giving thanks to Him for providing to meet our daily needs on a daily basis. While I do not wish to diminish your worhip experience, I get the sense you may be too caught up your own experience. In essence, you seem to be saying that no one can grow in Christ unless they share your experience. Thing is, we all have our own experiecne. You and I can witness the same event and walk away with different perspectives on the matter. It doesn't mean that one of us is worse than the other, it merely means we each have our strengths and weaknesses. We are to build each other up. We are to use our strengths to compensate for the weaknesses of others and allow others to use thier strengths to overcome our weaknesses. If two or more brother's in Christ come together and build each other up in this manner, Christ is seen by many more. While you are entitled to feel that your way is the only way and you are free to express yourself, you should ask yourself if you are building up or tearing down what God may be doing among His people.
_____________________________
You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
A. Lincoln
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RE: Godmen - 4/4/2007 5:45:14 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
After accepting Christ as my savior, I have learned that He is not about religion, the following of a set of rules and rituals, rather He is about relationship......
Where did I discuss “religion, the following of a set of rules and rituals”?
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
...... I get the sense you may be too caught up your own experience. In essence, you seem to be saying that no one can grow in Christ unless they share your experience. .....
Please show where I discussed my “own experience”.
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
While you are entitled to feel that your way is the only way and you are free to express yourself, you should ask yourself if you are building up or tearing down what God may be doing among His people.
I love edifying the brethren.
If on the other hand teaching is in error it is the believer’s responsibility to expose it.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Godmen - 4/4/2007 8:46:34 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1074
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
Where did I discuss “religion, the following of a set of rules and rituals”?
You didn't. I spoke my own thoughts about an issue that you seem to take issue with. I'm not trying to engage you in a fight. i am trying to understand where you form your position on the issue. I'm still exploring the Godmen thing myself. I've read several of the books that you call aposticy. I don't come to the same conclusion. I've read the cite you linked. I don't see the same things the writer of that cite sees. My comments about religion being rules and rituals were my own words based on personal observation of traditional religion that is void of relationship.
quote:
Please show where I discussed my “own experience”.
Once again, you didn't. Yet, we all do. We have nothing to base our opinion on but our own personal experience. I don't know what yours is and you don't know what mine is. But, in Christ, we are to build each other up. The post you responded to was written in a manner to get you to think about things differently. Instead, it appears you may be reacting instead of trying to dig beneath the surface and examine the issue closer.
quote:
I love edifying the brethren.
If on the other hand teaching is in error it is the believer’s responsibility to expose it.
Citing links to others whom share your worldview is not edifying the brethren or correcting errors. If you want to correct errors, engage in dialogue versus making judgmental comments quote:
That’s pure apostasy - plain and simple. and using the words of another as if it supports your opinion.
_____________________________
You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
A. Lincoln
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 7:30:52 AM
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TheCleric
Posts: 17
Joined: 3/29/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheCleric
NotMyCity,
But hey, what was I thinking, let's just dismiss it outright. I wonder what the Jews thought of the New Testament when they read it? Heresy? Or do they agree with parts and messages while disagreeing with the divinity of Jesus?
Apples and oranges. The NT is Scripture.
Speaking of Scripture, there was a time when God’s Word alone was the only rule of faith for the believer.
2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
According to 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Scripture is ALL that is needed.
"Speaking of Scripture, there was a time when God’s Word alone was the only rule of faith for the believer. According to 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Scripture is ALL that is needed."
Ok...why then do you underscore each of your posts with a C.S. Lewis quote, which I assume you picked to illustrate your beliefs? Hey, don't get me wrong, you picked a great author, whom I assume you've read (so have I). However, (you knew it was coming) if scripture is all that is needed, then why pick C.S. Lewis (I tried looking for the Gospel according to Lewis but no dice).
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Tim 3:16
I understand that the scripture is given by the inspiration of God (the Greek textus receptus right). I mean Erasmus's text is the basis for virtually every bible in existence today.
The bible is experienced through the lens of the reader. Your experience of the Bible is arguable different from say, an 80 yr old Polish woman, a 16 year old inner city youth, or even mine. I am not a fundamentalist, I do not believe that the lessons of the bible are to be taken absoutely litterally, more metaphorically (i.e. did God create the Earth in 7, 24 hour periods of time?).
Wait let me say it....wait for it....apostate
I think you also need to account that man is fallible. Man recieved the word, wrote it, it was transcribed, reprinted and re-interpreted from language to language and time period to time period. Can we TRULY translate a Greek text written c. 1522? I am not a Greek linguist, nor was I alive in the 1500s. I can only experience the bible through the lens of my life, and my time with God.
One last thing. I assume you attend church regularly (I confess that I don't). At that service there is typically a sermon or homily? I mean a time where the priets, padre, pastor, etc discusses passages of the bible. Isn't he/she typically relating passages to our every day lives? Their interpretation of the passages read during the mass or service, their application of the message to our lives.
Why is this discussion going on if the scripture is all we need? Why are there countless bible studies held at churches (even yours I bet) to read, interpret, and discuss the scripture? I think it would be reasonable that 2 different groups might, just might, apply the message in a single passage in very different ways.
Oh heck lets just dismiss them...(apostate, whoops said it again), its much easier.
De profundis clamo ad te domine
TheCleric
_____________________________
“A day may come when the courage of man fails – When we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship. But it is not this day. On this day, we fight!” (Aragorn, Return of the King)
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 7:38:30 AM
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TheCleric
Posts: 17
Joined: 3/29/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
From the “GodMen” web site
About.....
“Welcome to GodMen
Welcome to GodMen, where you'll find power, honesty, courage and your tribe of brothers.
The truth is that on any given Sunday, 60% of church attendees are women, and something about church today is keeping men away. We are attempting to create a worship place for men that looks nothing like church. It is a place where men of no religion and men who have left the church break bread with followers of Jesus. Where simply being a man, created in Gods image, is celebrated. An environment familiar with and conducive to the way men are made comfortable and the unique way men interact.......”
Since when is a church gathering supposed to be “a place where men .....break bread with followers of Jesus. Where simply being a man, created in Gods image, is celebrated.
By way of comparison, Jesus said:
Luke 22:19
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Compare with:
1 Cor 11:23-26
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
We’re supposed to break bread IN REMEMBRANCE OF CHRIST, “For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”
GodMen says something entirely man-centered on their “about” page.
That’s pure apostasy - plain and simple.
(chuckle)
A thought just came to my head. Has anybody here (besides me) seen Monty Pyton's Life of Brian? The stoning scene. I can imagine the shackled man dancing around saying "apostate, apostate, apostate" instead of Jehovah. (chuckle)
By the way, I think the phrase "break bread" is used apostately...oops sorry Freudian slip....I meant metaphorically.
To be honost it takes me at least 3 reads to begin to understand what your message is notmycity. This is not a personal attack, I just don't get either the message your sending or the way your sending it.
De profundis clamo ad te domine
TheCleric
_____________________________
“A day may come when the courage of man fails – When we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship. But it is not this day. On this day, we fight!” (Aragorn, Return of the King)
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 7:40:04 AM
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TheCleric
Posts: 17
Joined: 3/29/2007
Status: offline
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zamdad,
Well said in your last post.
TheCleric
_____________________________
“A day may come when the courage of man fails – When we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship. But it is not this day. On this day, we fight!” (Aragorn, Return of the King)
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 11:57:33 AM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheCleric
"Speaking of Scripture, there was a time when God’s Word alone was the only rule of faith for the believer. According to 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Scripture is ALL that is needed."
Ok...why then do you underscore each of your posts with a C.S. Lewis quote, which I assume you picked to illustrate your beliefs?
I just like the quote, but you provoked me to change my signature to something much more suitable. It now illustrates my belief.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheCleric
The bible is experienced through the lens of the reader. Your experience of the Bible is arguable different from say, an 80 yr old Polish woman, a 16 year old inner city youth, or even mine. I am not a fundamentalist, I do not believe that the lessons of the bible are to be taken absoutely litterally, more metaphorically (i.e. did God create the Earth in 7, 24 hour periods of time?).
My experience does NOTHING to change the timeless truth of God’s Word. Also, seeing as you “do not believe that the lessons of the bible are to be taken ...literally”, there is nothing I can teach you, as I believe all doctrine to be 100% literal and applicable for the true believer.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 12:06:04 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Citing links to others whom share your worldview is not edifying the brethren or correcting errors. If you want to correct errors, engage in dialogue versus making judgmental comments quote:
That’s pure apostasy - plain and simple. and using the words of another as if it supports your opinion.
Zam,
Short of time at the moment, but suffice it to say I only concur with the author’s views of that particular book in the context of that particular article.
Problem #1: Recklessly Dividing the Word of Truth
Problem #2: Whitewashing the Human Heart
Problem #3: Making God in the Image of Man
Please be honest in that all of our verbal and written comments (as in yours, mine and everyone on this forum) are “judgmental”, are they not? We humans make hundreds and perhaps thousands of “judgments” every single day. Mine are meant to warn against danger. Nothing more in this regard.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 12:13:22 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
Posts: 439
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
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Wow,
Even at the Godmen event we were encouraged not to fight among ourselves.
It's pretty ironic, all of this.
If I could sum up the message that was given at Godmen it was this:
"Come one, come all and let's strive to live for God through Jesus and encourage one another to become who we were meant to be in Christ."
I didn't go to anything that makes me "special" by attending Godmen. I simply shared an afternoon with other men that realized men have a calling from God. We were all meeting together to encourage one another. Brad Stine didn't try to convert us into a little cult. Paul Coughlin didn't hypnotize us into showing up at church and whipping the congregation.
You guys have managed to turn this into an argument among yourselves, arguing about something you really know nothing about.
There is a Psalm that I have come to think of as the "Godmen Psalm". Psalm 112 really sums up what a Christian man is and experiences.
quote:
1 Praise the LORD.
Blessed is the man who fears the LORD,
who finds great delight in his commands.
2 His children will be mighty in the land;
the generation of the upright will be blessed.
3 Wealth and riches are in his house,
and his righteousness endures forever.
4 Even in darkness light dawns for the upright,
for the gracious and compassionate and righteous man.
5 Good will come to him who is generous and lends freely,
who conducts his affairs with justice.
6 Surely he will never be shaken;
a righteous man will be remembered forever.
7 He will have no fear of bad news;
his heart is steadfast, trusting in the LORD.
8 His heart is secure, he will have no fear;
in the end he will look in triumph on his foes.
9 He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor,
his righteousness endures forever;
his horn will be lifted high in honor.
10 The wicked man will see and be vexed,
he will gnash his teeth and waste away;
the longings of the wicked will come to nothing.
I don't think Brad Stine, Paul Coughlin, or any of the other speakers are perfect. I guard what I follow very closely, that's why I don't follow Brad Stine or Paul Coughlin. They aren't the authority that I look to for knowing what the Bible says, nor did they claim to be or want to be. They were simply encouraging men to strengthen their relationship with Christ. There are many things that I wouldn't agree with them on concerning the Bible (salvation/baptism especially, I believe baptism is a necessary part of salvation). I know many of you of you would disagree with me on that. So be it, you're not going to change my mindt (The Holy Spirit has already made it clear to me). That doesn't mean we have to argue about it. I am no less your brother and you are no less mine. I am not the one that determines or decides your eternal fate. I am another person, just like yourself that is walking with Jesus as he transforms me into something more like himself. Jesus expects me to encourage you, pick you up when you're down. Pray for you, worship with you, meet with you.
When it all comes down to it, all this stuff I think I know about God. I know nothing. I only have a glimpse at what it's all about. That doesn't mean I grab anything that's taught to me, become part of the next "movement" that comes along. It means that I look at God in humility and realize that he is the author of everything I know and I didn't come to know it by my own insight. He reveals his truth to me and my pride only clouds it all up.
Maybe you didn't go to Godmen, but you're still in my "Tribe" any of you that are Christians. Welcome let's not fight amongst ourselves, let's press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of us. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
_____________________________
My Blog
Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 12:23:35 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues
If I could sum up the message that was given at Godmen it was this:
"Come one, come all and let's strive to live for God through Jesus and encourage one another to become who we were meant to be in Christ."
That’s extremely ambiguous at best.
Please explain (specifically) what that means to you. I am curious.
Thank you.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 12:56:17 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
Posts: 439
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
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No notmycity, explain yourself. Why is it so hard for you to accept that you're attempt to shoot down acting on what we know God desires from us is a positive thing. You have been extremely judgemental, you have posted your complaints and you have quoted your scripture. You have yet to step out on a limb and make it known what you believe. It is possible to hide behind scripture, not use it to edify.
There has not been a "heretical" or "apostate" anything from me. And it's killing you.
_____________________________
My Blog
Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 1:29:54 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues
No notmycity, explain yourself. Why is it so hard for you to accept that you're attempt to shoot down acting on what we know God desires from us is a positive thing. You have been extremely judgemental, you have posted your complaints and you have quoted your scripture. You have yet to step out on a limb and make it known what you believe. It is possible to hide behind scripture, not use it to edify.
I won’t return your reviling.
What I believe (synopsis):
2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(KJV)
John 3:36
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
(KJV)
I Jn 2:1-5
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
(KJV)
I Jn 1:6-7
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(KJV)
Rev 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 2:14:50 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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Excerpted from Paul Coughlin’s recent article:
http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/PCoughlin/
Pain & Prejudice
“To say that in three decades of marriage counseling that you have never seen a case where the husband was not to blame for the divorce is to go through life seeing what you want to see. It is a form of spiritual delusion. Such a person should have his counseling license pulled and he should apologize to the men he has wounded. ....
I saw this wounding in a man who sat in my office, his foot twitching. He was told by a Christian man who claims to be a counselor that his wife’’s battle with depression was really his fault.. ....
Bigotry robs people of dignity and value. It frustrates common and healthy human desires, creates dark psychic storm clouds, and unless a man is unusually robust, creates spiritual fissures. Bitterness, anger, and resentment seep into men’’s souls, as I heard during the question and answer portion of the conference. ....
But the biggest problems aren’’t that such bigotry takes place and those who are guilty of it get away with it. The biggest problem is that with enough intensity and duration the group under fire believes the propaganda against them.
Minorities believe they are feckless.
Blondes believe they are stupid.
Christian men believe they’’re spiritually deficient.
No wonder they don’’t lead as they should. Or they lead, but with the unsure footing that accompanies fear, inspiring confidence in no one. Or they lead, but with ambivalence, inspiring no respect in no one either.”
“Wounding”, “dignity”, “value”, “depression”, “dark psychic storm clouds”, “robust” are all used often as part of humanistic psychological terminology aka psycho-babble.
I choose rather to be rooted in Christ and His Words. It’s not “bigotry” that’s the problem. It’s called DISOBEDIENCE to God’s Word. This GodMen movement is attempting to counter feminism within Christendom, but I fear they are every bit as in error as the contentious feminists are. Both rely heavy on humanism with little-to-no adherence to the Holy Scriptures.
Consider the Lord’s words to the church in Philadelphia:
Rev 3:7-8
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.Please especially mediate on v 8.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 2:19:43 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1074
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Please be honest in that all of our verbal and written comments (as in yours, mine and everyone on this forum) are “judgmental”, are they not? We humans make hundreds and perhaps thousands of “judgments” every single day. Mine are meant to warn against danger. Nothing more in this regard.
Notmycity, we all make judgments each and every day. When I used the word "judgmental" referring to your remarks, I was referring to condemning statements such as "That’s pure apostasy - plain and simple." It's you opinion of the topic at hand, but the way you state it implies you are the final authority. Where is the building each other up? Where is the growth, the encouragement? If your words are supposed to convey a warning against danger, they don't. They come across as condemning.
_____________________________
You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
A. Lincoln
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 2:32:26 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1074
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
“Wounding”, “dignity”, “value”, “depression”, “dark psychic storm clouds”, “robust” are all used often as part of humanistic psychological terminology aka psycho-babble.
I notice,notmycity, that you always use the King James in your scripture quotes. Do you speak in the old English? I don't get what you're saying above. They're words, nothing more than letters placed together to form meaning. I don't gett where you come up with the idea that it's humanistic psycho-babble.
As far as your comment about disobedience to God's word, I agree with you. If more men were obedient to God's word we'd have a lot less psychbabble used to justify sin. Yet, our wold is filled with hurting men, men wounded by sin. How do we reach these men and teach them to become obedient to God? The message you're conveying doesn't seem to be drawing any brothers closer. How's it going to draw in the man drowning in the cultural cesspool?
In an earlier post I spoke about experience. I don't know what your life experience is. But, for the past 15 years mine has been working with some of the most beat up men and women in my community. Christ has worked on my heart as he's allowed me to tend to others. Some of these psychobabble terms have been used for His glory to bring souls to heaven by healing hearts here in this world.
But, perhaps I ramble on too much. Perhaps I spend too much time thinking about concepts that I learn from the battleground of life. Perhaps I don't spend enough time reading material that I could be citing to make others think I'm smart.
_____________________________
You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
A. Lincoln
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 3:01:46 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Where is the building each other up? Where is the growth, the encouragement? If your words are supposed to convey a warning against danger, they don't. They come across as condemning.
Encouraging the seeking of God’s truth through His word is “building up”. As far as “condemning” is concerned, Jesus said:
John 3:19-21
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Only God can condemn, and those who deny His Word are condemned. Very serious business indeed, don’t you think?
The apostles warned of many forms of deceit in the epistles. Just read them to see for yourself.
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
In an earlier post I spoke about experience. I don't know what your life experience is. But, for the past 15 years mine has been working with some of the most beat up men and women in my community. Christ has worked on my heart as he's allowed me to tend to others. Some of these psychobabble terms have been used for His glory to bring souls to heaven by healing hearts here in this world.
By way of comparison we see any use of psychobabble to be in stark contrast to God’s will.
1 Tim 6:20-21
20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith....
Col 2:8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Two warnings right there. Psychobabble is “oppositions of science falsely so called” and “philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”
God created man so is it reasonable to construe that He knows how to heal our every hurt?
Consider this:
2 Tim 1:7
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
(KJV)
Ps 119:80
80 Let my heart be sound in thy statutes; that I be not ashamed.
(KJV)
Isa 26:3
3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
(KJV)
Every answer for every problem one faces in this life is addressed in Scripture. Either we believe this, or we don’t.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 3:15:00 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1074
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Every answer for every problem one faces in this life is addressed in Scripture. Either we believe this, or we don’t.
Funny thing. I think we both believe this, but we view the world differently.
_____________________________
You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
A. Lincoln
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 3:30:56 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
Every answer for every problem one faces in this life is addressed in Scripture. Either we believe this, or we don’t.
Funny thing. I think we both believe this, but we view the world differently.
Do you believe in the all-sufficiency of Scripture as the only rule of faith?
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 4:59:27 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
Posts: 439
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
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Okay, I'd like to remind you all that this thread is about Godmen and the potential good that can come from such events.
I understand that there are people that will try to tear it to bits, we have post after post of it.
notmycity has absolutely no need for a meeting like Godmen. Go start a thread called "Godmen attenders are going to hell" or something.
Some of the rest of you see the motivation behind the encouragement that Godmen has tried to assemble.
For those of us that understand the need for men to step up and live Godly I thought this could be a place that we could make contact.
I could do without all the mud slinging though.
Currently, I"m out of work. I went after something I was passionate about and ended up not "making the mark". I suppose it's more important to tell me that I'm out of work because I went to Godmen. Or that God isn't happy with me and he put me out of a job. Or maybe the good ole "God will open another door for you" cliche.
It's evident that this forum frequented by so many God fearing Bible reading folk feel the need to chastise me over and make sure I know that my spirituality is mislead rather than be any type of support at all.
I don't have a thing against God, it's his followers that tend to scare me!
_____________________________
My Blog
Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 5:24:27 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues
Okay, I'd like to remind you all that this thread is about Godmen and the potential good that can come from such events.
I understand that there are people that will try to tear it to bits, we have post after post of it.
notmycity has absolutely no need for a meeting like Godmen. Go start a thread called "Godmen attenders are going to hell" or something.
Some of the rest of you see the motivation behind the encouragement that Godmen has tried to assemble.
For those of us that understand the need for men to step up and live Godly I thought this could be a place that we could make contact.
I could do without all the mud slinging though.
Currently, I"m out of work. I went after something I was passionate about and ended up not "making the mark". I suppose it's more important to tell me that I'm out of work because I went to Godmen. Or that God isn't happy with me and he put me out of a job. Or maybe the good ole "God will open another door for you" cliche.
It's evident that this forum frequented by so many God fearing Bible reading folk feel the need to chastise me over and make sure I know that my spirituality is mislead rather than be any type of support at all.
I don't have a thing against God, it's his followers that tend to scare me!
Experiential gatherings and emotionalism do not make for TRUE worship. Please re-read my posts to see my concerns.
Ever try to take keys away from someone about to drive drunk? There have been times I and others have had to get a but “rough” to stop a guy from potentially killing himself and others.
Dangerous doctrine is even worse because of the eternal ramifications.
Please think about it. BTW, “mud slung is ground lost.”
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 5:50:07 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
Posts: 439
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
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The point is this, you have made the mistake that too many other "christians" have. You assume that I'd fall for anything and for some reason you need to rescue me.
You know nothing about me other than I attended an event that you are not at all interested in. From there you have made it a point to quote verses of scripture as a soul response. I respect scripture but I also know that the Pharisees hid behind scripture with no soul stirring whatsoever.
I dont need you to "rescue" me. I'm a big boy and I have the Holy Spirit inside of me to guide me. I don't need to "get high" for Jesus. I need my brothers in Christ to be my brothers. Clearly I'm a second rate "Christian" that could never circulate in the arena you do. I'm far too immature and would clearly fall for anything.
Perhaps something has been lost in translation here but you have presented yourself as a judgmental bigot that is in opposition to anything that's not going on in your particular world. Well buddy, we're the church too. And we're your brothers.
It sounds like you live in a fishbowl and like it there. Some of us want to see the sea.
_____________________________
My Blog
Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Godmen - 4/5/2007 6:37:40 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1213
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues
Perhaps something has been lost in translation here but you have presented yourself as a judgmental bigot that is in opposition to anything that's not going on in your particular world. Well buddy, we're the church too. And we're your brothers.
It sounds like you live in a fishbowl and like it there. Some of us want to see the sea.
I won’t return your reviling.
Quoting Scripture is my “soul response”, as it should be for any believer who is blessed to have access to God’s written Word.
The pharisees didn’t “hide behind Scripture” and if you’ll note the words of Jesus they didn’t believe the Scriptures themselves (see John 5:45-47)
Regarding your bigot remark (again, I won’t return your reviling), I am in a truth in sharp opposition to deception.
Ps 119:104
104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
(KJV)
I will challenge you to search your heart to see how “GodMen” has taught you to revile another with personal attacks. Please try to take the higher road and address the doctrinal issues.
Thank you.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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