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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/6/2007 7:33:20 PM
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TheoJunkie
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Yoel,
I vaguely remember writing that some point in the distant past, but I have no idea what the context was.
I don't believe Calvin promoted icon veneration (or even use), and I do believe he considered only baptism and communion to be sacraments. I'm not sure what you are saying here, but those aren't the issues I disagree with Calvin on.
By the way... I don't think any Calvinist "holds to Calvin." They may agree fully with his interpretation of the Bible... but that is different than dogmatically believing whatever Calvin said because he is Calvin.
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/7/2007 8:00:16 AM
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besiderself
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Can someone help me out with the TULIP thing? I hold to a lot of Reformed theology myself, but am not familiar, I guess, with some of the terminology...I'm assuming that it's an acrostic...
besiderself
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/7/2007 3:38:07 PM
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besiderself
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Thank you, JimboFletch!
besiderself
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/7/2007 8:26:52 PM
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YoelNatan
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as a matter of fact the points were develored after his death and only as a defence to the points of arminiens
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Let my people think
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/7/2007 8:57:31 PM
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YoelNatan
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is there a arminiens only thread
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Let my people think
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/8/2007 9:41:44 AM
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YoelNatan
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if God predestined it to be
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/8/2007 7:11:43 PM
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Geocacher301
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheoJunkie
quote:
I ran across this article online, and I have to say that I can't agree with it at all:
In contrast to common evangelical teaching on assurance of salvation, often associated with teachings on “eternal security,” Wesleyans believe that assurance of salvation is an assurance of present salvation and not final salvation. Christians can know they are presently saved, but because final salvation is contingent upon continued faith and cooperation with divine grace, there can not be any confidence about final salvation. Wesleyans believe that people can experience progress in the way of salvation by cooperating with divine grace; likewise, people can regress in the way of salvation through refusing to cooperate with divine grace. Therefore, while people can know that they are presently Christians, if they do not continue to cooperate with divine grace, they may find themselves in a place where they no longer have faith and are no longer Christians.
http://cbounds.blogspot.com/2006/09/brief-commentary-on-wesleyan-churchs_12.html
This makes it sound like man helps God save him. I can't understand that. Those who walk away from God's grace were not Christians. So that kind of bugs me.
I would be skeptical of any thing that states "this is what (insert group) believes" unless they can back this assertion with some kind of a survey.
What I am saying here is that it might even be true that what was stated is in the doctrine of the Wesleyans but even if that is the case that doesn't necessarily mean that this is what all or even most Wesleyans believe. A better way to have put this would have been to say that this is what the Wesleyan Church teaches as their theology.
If you want to assert that this is what people in a denomination believe you had better do a survey.
Just my thoughts.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/8/2007 9:19:20 PM
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YoelNatan
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No, most people do hold to what there denomination teaches, and most are in complete rebelion against God
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/9/2007 1:06:54 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: YoelNatan
is there a arminiens only thread
There is one that started off to be one.
http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_2582039/mpage_1/tm.htm
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/9/2007 3:13:42 PM
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Doveflight
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quote:
ORIGINAL: YoelNatan
is there a arminiens only thread
You can read about 97% or maybe 98.8% of the remaining of CW. I am sure there are a few reformers hiding away in the SBC thread and a few other places.
_____________________________
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I am made for another world. C.S. Lewis
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/9/2007 3:28:38 PM
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Doveflight
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This is the first Christmas season we have been worshipping with the OPC church, as recent years we have opted for united family worship at alternative services. I can understand not having a tree, no issue there, but it is disappointing not to have an advent. The pastor explained today that we are neither instructed or forbidden to celebrate this season, but I think there is purpose to the sharing of advent, anticipation of our Lord, in the collective tradition of the church. I have fond memories of holiday advent in my then prior to UMC church which was the OMC? As an adult we attended a mennonite church that had just incorporated the Christmas tree about the same time we began attending and took another 10 years to drop the foot washing ceremony that I had learned to humbly receive. Now we are dealing with a new take again.
I also have difficulty understanding why the reformed tradition honors the arts in music but doesn't include more in their services? Is it considered performance for a choir or soloists to offer music to our Lord? We often attend the holiday services of the mainline pcusa church where music is very much a part of the celebration.
_____________________________
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I am made for another world. C.S. Lewis
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/11/2007 12:17:06 PM
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DougHorton
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Doveflight,
Do not judge all reformed churches by the OPC! In the PCA we have advent candles, lots of music, Christmas trees, the works. And the doctrine taught, the confessions and catechisms, are all the same. Actually our elders prefer a version of the Westminster Confession published by the OPC.
I'm surprised to hear of a Mennonite church practicing foot washing. (My wife was Mennonite before we married, so I'm not ignorant of their practices.) I have only seen foot washing in the Primitive Baptist church I grew up in and on the mission field in our team worship, and only there because I introduced it.
I think it is a great practice! Although it is not a sacrament, I wish more churches would use it.
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/11/2007 12:22:44 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
Doveflight,
Do not judge all reformed churches by the OPC! In the PCA we have advent candles, lots of music, Christmas trees, the works. And the doctrine taught, the confessions and catechisms, are all the same. Actually our elders prefer a version of the Westminster Confession published by the OPC.
I'm surprised to hear of a Mennonite church practicing foot washing. (My wife was Mennonite before we married, so I'm not ignorant of their practices.) I have only seen foot washing in the Primitive Baptist church I grew up in and on the mission field in our team worship, and only there because I introduced it.
I think it is a great practice! Although it is not a sacrament, I wish more churches would use it.
Free Will Baptists still practice foot washing and consider it one of three ordinances (along with baptism & communion).
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/12/2007 7:04:22 AM
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Doveflight
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quote:
Actually our elders prefer a version of the Westminster Confession published by the OPC.
Doug, there is more than one version of the Westminister Confession? I thought it was IT.
Our PCA church closed and many families from there came to our church, the OPC. Not sure whether it was a financial issue or leadership or attendance. Their main elder came to our church. I have known that family for years and love that they are so involved here now.He has a tremendous gentle spirit and so does his wife.
I am content at OPC, not trying to judge reformed as a whole. Just wondering why. Families are allowed to celebrate privately as they please. I know some do not celebrate at all, some just give a small gift, others do as all America.
As for Mennonite, when I was in high school I know the small mennonite church nearby practiced footwashing as well. They were more conservative than the congregation I attended, though. I thought it was a common practice in mennonite.
_____________________________
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I am made for another world. C.S. Lewis
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/12/2007 7:20:31 PM
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DougHorton
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I asked my wife about foot washing in the Mennonite church. She'd never heard of it practiced there. But I'm sure they are as varied as any other denomination.
Yes, there are different versions of the WCOF. Different denominations delete certain chapters. I don't know if any add new chapters. But there is a modern "translation" which I am pretty sure is published by the OPC.
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/17/2007 8:38:41 AM
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besiderself
Posts: 1292
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Hello all;
I'm participating in a discussion of Reformed doctrines on another forum, and the following subject came up:
quote:
What could possibly be wrong in presenting Reformed thinking to an unbeliever? If he is elect, and it is God’s time to regenerate this person, then they will not stumble at the teaching—God’s Sovereignty has decreed that this unbeliever at this moment hears this teaching…therefore it is good and right that he hear it and God is responsible for the results.
These are actually my words...I would appreciate your thoughts on the subject. Is there something wrong with presenting Reformed thinking to an unbeliever?
besiderself
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/17/2007 12:39:12 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: besiderself
Hello all;
I'm participating in a discussion of Reformed doctrines on another forum, and the following subject came up:
quote:
What could possibly be wrong in presenting Reformed thinking to an unbeliever? If he is elect, and it is God’s time to regenerate this person, then they will not stumble at the teaching—God’s Sovereignty has decreed that this unbeliever at this moment hears this teaching…therefore it is good and right that he hear it and God is responsible for the results.
These are actually my words...I would appreciate your thoughts on the subject. Is there something wrong with presenting Reformed thinking to an unbeliever?
besiderself
Nothing wrong, per se, if they ask. But remember that unbelievers cannot understand spiritual things very well. Their need is less for heavy doctrine than it is for the simple, unvarnished Gospel.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/17/2007 2:41:17 PM
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TheoJunkie
Posts: 2340
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Death to Life
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Yes, there is a difference between "Come to Christ!" and "How you came to Christ."
There is no reason to hide RT from an unbeliever, but there is no need to lay it out as part of evangelism either.
However... I think that once a person DOES believe, they should be taught how they came to believe, and soon. It will free them up to move on quickly to good kingdom work (vs. wondering/stressing about themselves).
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/17/2007 9:50:31 PM
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YoelNatan
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I have been wondering if we should apraoch witnessing as if free will was true and understand predestanation as a deeper understanding for them to come to if God's mercy allows, but I know that would be contradicting to God's word..so I must speak the truth even in witnessing to none believers..or the question could be raised are those who still teach a man made gospel even true believers
< Message edited by YoelNatan -- 12/17/2007 9:59:11 PM >
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Let my people think
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/18/2007 8:08:51 AM
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besiderself
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Nothing wrong, per se, if they ask. But remember that unbelievers cannot understand spiritual things very well. Their need is less for heavy doctrine than it is for the simple, unvarnished Gospel.
Oh, I agree that an unbeliever cannot grasp the things of the spirit...that is scriptural. And I certainly would not deliberately side-line a discussion about "how to be saved" with "some people are elect, some aren't".
But what then, JimboFletch, would you consider the simple, unvarnished Gospel? How do you present it?
besiderself
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 12/18/2007 12:50:17 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: besiderself
But what then, JimboFletch, would you consider the simple, unvarnished Gospel? How do you present it?
Christianity is NOT trying to follow a set of rules. It is not a philosophy. It is not just a different means of getting in tune with some mystical "force" or power. It is a personal relationship between yourself and the one true, living God of the universe.
Romans 3:23 states that all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Everyone of us have sinned at one time and because of that sin we cannot enter into the presence of God nor can we hope to go to heaven.
Romans 6:23 states that the payment for sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus.
Romans 5:8 tells us that even while we were still in sin Jesus willingly died for us.
Jesus said in John 14:6 that no man comes to the Father except through Him. There is no way to get to heaven without accepting Jesus as Savior. You cannot live good enough nor work hard enough to earn God's GIFT of eternal life. If you could, then, Jesus would not have had to come to earth and suffer on the cross!
Romans 10: 9 & 10 state that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is your Lord and believe in your heart that He was raised from the dead, you will be saved.
I John 5: 11 & 12 state that God has given us eternal life through Jesus. If you have accepted Jesus as Savior you have eternal life. If you will not have Jesus as your Savior, you do not have eternal life.
God loved you so much that He allowed His only begotten Son to pay the price for your sin debt, that if you believe in, trust in, and commit your life to Him, you shall not perish but have eternal life.
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