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RE: Israel in the news - 3/3/2008 4:15:25 AM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
If you have time for it, here is a decent article from Wikipedia that covers many of the arguments.
This debate would be academic if the Hebrews had actually followed God's command to kill or drive out all the area's inhabitants and not allow them to remain in the area.
Deuteronomy 9:1 Hear, O Israel. You are now about to cross the Jordan to go in and dispossess nations greater and stronger than you, with large cities that have walls up to the sky. 2 The people are strong and tall--Anakites! You know about them and have heard it said: "Who can stand up against the Anakites?" 3 But be assured today that the Lord your God is the one who goes across ahead of you like a devouring fire. He will destroy them; he will subdue them before you. And you will drive them out and annihilate them quickly, as the Lord has promised you. 4 After the Lord your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, "The Lord has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness." No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is going to drive them out before you. 5 It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the Lord your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.6 Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the Lord your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.
And the reason for the Hebrews to drive out the inhabitants before them was so that they would not worship the idols of the inhabitants. They had very specific commands to worship God only and not to worship idols. He was trying to protect them from themselves. However, the Hebrews failed. This is why Christ came. He came to fulfill the law because the law could not be fulfilled by any natural human. This is why modern Israel is not Biblical Israel. They may claim to be Jews, but as Paul argues in Romans, lineage has nothing to do with the promises given to Abraham. Faith in Christ does.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/4/2008 5:59:02 AM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
quote:
But isn't this why most American Christians support Israel and deny that the Palestinians are even a people?
What Christians, who support Israel, are denying that Palestinians are even a people?
http://forums.christianity.com/fb.aspx?m=2895522
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/4/2008 3:21:25 PM
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mapachito13
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Why is Hamas starting up a new batch of rocket attacks? Because they are seeing Abbas getting some headway in his dealings with the Israelis and they are trying to derail that. The Israelis are so predictable getting baited into every little tussle. Hamas lobs a few rockets, they invade Gaza. Abbas has to stop the peace process in response. Just what Hamas wanted. It's no wonder that Hamas claimed victory after the Israeli pull-out.
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/4/2008 3:47:20 PM
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stamper_ben
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So who's in charge? Abbas or Hamas?
Seems pretty clear who the lipstick on the pig is.
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/5/2008 9:08:34 PM
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Marcus.
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They are all fighting over it still IMO. And no one is truly in charge.
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 2:07:17 AM
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scutus
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quote:
The Israelis are so predictable getting baited into every little tussle. It probably would be better for the peace process if Israel sort of...takes it on the chin. But I understand why Israel would feel it needs to defend itself. You can't just let them throw rockets at your citizens and take it passively.
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 3:07:36 PM
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Marcus.
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Deadly Attack On Jerusalem Seminary
Jerusalem, Israel (AP)
4 minutes ago
(AP) Two gunmen infiltrated a rabbinical seminary at the entrance of Jerusalem and opened fire after nightfall Thursday, killing at least seven, police and rescue workers said.
Israeli media said about 35 people were wounded...............
ContinuedContinued
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 3:25:49 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10887
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Deadly Attack On Jerusalem Seminary
Jerusalem, Israel (AP)
4 minutes ago
(AP) Two gunmen infiltrated a rabbinical seminary at the entrance of Jerusalem and opened fire after nightfall Thursday, killing at least seven, police and rescue workers said.
Israeli media said about 35 people were wounded...............
ContinuedContinued
So...
Should they just continue to "take it on the chin"?
Again...
And again...
And again...
So "peace" can be "processed"?
And nevermind the fact that even when "peace" has been obtained the Israelis still take it on the chin time after time after time.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 4:20:08 PM
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rabstark
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Here's the latest report from the Jerusalem Post on the attack. The article is dated about 20 minutes ago.
Eight confirmed dead in Jerusalem terror attack
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 4:59:02 PM
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rowsdower
Posts: 70
Joined: 10/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Deadly Attack On Jerusalem Seminary
Jerusalem, Israel (AP)
4 minutes ago
(AP) Two gunmen infiltrated a rabbinical seminary at the entrance of Jerusalem and opened fire after nightfall Thursday, killing at least seven, police and rescue workers said.
Israeli media said about 35 people were wounded...............
ContinuedContinued
So...
Should they just continue to "take it on the chin"?
Again...
And again...
And again...
So "peace" can be "processed"?
And nevermind the fact that even when "peace" has been obtained the Israelis still take it on the chin time after time after time.
Of course. Just ask the UN. They're the world authority on asking Israel to take whatever the Palestinians, under their elected Hamas governement, can dish out. This is so sickening.
Here's a little quote from Hamas in the news:
"This heroic attack in Jerusalem is a normal response to the crimes of the occupier and its murder of civilians," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said.
Yeah, this coming from people who launch rockets into civilian neighborhoods, then use their own people as human shields, women and children, and then blame Israel for their deaths. Pathetic. There will be NO PEACE unless Hamas GOES, the Palestinians acknolege Israel's right to exist as a nation, and they stop the bloodshed, period! The burden is on them! Anyone who believes otherwise is just deluded.
Enough is enough! We as Christians MUST stand with ISRAEL on this, period. No more excuses.
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 5:13:41 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1906
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rowsdower
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Deadly Attack On Jerusalem Seminary
Jerusalem, Israel (AP)
4 minutes ago
(AP) Two gunmen infiltrated a rabbinical seminary at the entrance of Jerusalem and opened fire after nightfall Thursday, killing at least seven, police and rescue workers said.
Israeli media said about 35 people were wounded...............
ContinuedContinued
So...
Should they just continue to "take it on the chin"?
Again...
And again...
And again...
So "peace" can be "processed"?
And nevermind the fact that even when "peace" has been obtained the Israelis still take it on the chin time after time after time.
Of course. Just ask the UN. They're the world authority on asking Israel to take whatever the Palestinians, under their elected Hamas governement, can dish out. This is so sickening.
Here's a little quote from Hamas in the news:
"This heroic attack in Jerusalem is a normal response to the crimes of the occupier and its murder of civilians," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said.
Yeah, this coming from people who launch rockets into civilian neighborhoods, then use their own people as human shields, women and children, and then blame Israel for their deaths. Pathetic. There will be NO PEACE unless Hamas GOES, the Palestinians acknolege Israel's right to exist as a nation, and they stop the bloodshed, period! The burden is on them! Anyone who believes otherwise is just deluded.
Enough is enough! We as Christians MUST stand with ISRAEL on this, period. No more excuses.
What do you propose we do? Bomb Gaza and the West Bank into oblivion. Yeah, that's real Christ-like. Yep. Just what Jesus would have advocated. I'm sure Paul would have loved that too. He was such a terrorist himself.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 5:16:41 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1906
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For a little balance:
Several dead in Jerusalem attack
You might want to note that this was not a West Bank or Gazan resident. It was a resident of Jerusalem.
The identity still seems even a little dubious.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 5:59:47 PM
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rowsdower
Posts: 70
Joined: 10/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
quote:
ORIGINAL: rowsdower
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Deadly Attack On Jerusalem Seminary
Jerusalem, Israel (AP)
4 minutes ago
(AP) Two gunmen infiltrated a rabbinical seminary at the entrance of Jerusalem and opened fire after nightfall Thursday, killing at least seven, police and rescue workers said.
Israeli media said about 35 people were wounded...............
ContinuedContinued
So...
Should they just continue to "take it on the chin"?
Again...
And again...
And again...
So "peace" can be "processed"?
And nevermind the fact that even when "peace" has been obtained the Israelis still take it on the chin time after time after time.
Of course. Just ask the UN. They're the world authority on asking Israel to take whatever the Palestinians, under their elected Hamas governement, can dish out. This is so sickening.
Here's a little quote from Hamas in the news:
"This heroic attack in Jerusalem is a normal response to the crimes of the occupier and its murder of civilians," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said.
Yeah, this coming from people who launch rockets into civilian neighborhoods, then use their own people as human shields, women and children, and then blame Israel for their deaths. Pathetic. There will be NO PEACE unless Hamas GOES, the Palestinians acknolege Israel's right to exist as a nation, and they stop the bloodshed, period! The burden is on them! Anyone who believes otherwise is just deluded.
Enough is enough! We as Christians MUST stand with ISRAEL on this, period. No more excuses.
What do you propose we do? Bomb Gaza and the West Bank into oblivion. Yeah, that's real Christ-like. Yep. Just what Jesus would have advocated. I'm sure Paul would have loved that too. He was such a terrorist himself.
I told you what I propose. Hamas needs to GO, the Palestinians need to acknowledge Israel's right to exist as a nation, and they need to stop blowing people up in the name of Allah and Islam. It's pretty simple.
Funny how you twisted what I said and tried to insinuate that I suggest they bomb the West bank into oblivion...and then try and look like a saint yourself by saying Christ would never do that. Nice try, I'll give you an A for effort on that little stunt.
Why don't YOU propose something for a change. What should Israel do? They are under constant attack from people who do not wish to coexist with them. Answer that one.
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 6:31:44 PM
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rowsdower
Posts: 70
Joined: 10/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
For a little balance:
Several dead in Jerusalem attack
You might want to note that this was not a West Bank or Gazan resident. It was a resident of Jerusalem.
The identity still seems even a little dubious.
Okay, this tells me everything I need to know. You're actually linking to an ALJeZeera website for a little "Balance"? AlJezeera, the most anti-Israel, anti America, pro terror propoganda machine on the planet. Glad to know who I'm really talking to here. I know that anything I say to try and debate with you is pointless, I can see where your heart really is.
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 6:47:08 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2545
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Please pray, for the Americans that minister to the poor Jewish immigrants, the hungry, etc. In Jerusalem. Please pray for their protection, also. Several churches (Calvary Chapel) and other Americans have been there for years, selflessly giving their lives away for these people.
I have been in touch with a number of them for years, and, until now, I thought Jerusalem was about the safest place in Israel.
Maybe I should have put this in prayer section 
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 6:54:51 PM
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rowsdower
Posts: 70
Joined: 10/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Please pray, for the Americans that minister to the poor Jewish immigrants, the hungry, etc. In Jerusalem. Please pray for their protection, also. Several churches (Calvary Chapel) and other Americans have been there for years, selflessly giving their lives away for these people.
I have been in touch with a number of them for years, and, until now, I thought Jerusalem was about the safest place in Israel.
Maybe I should have put this in prayer section
AMEN!
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 6:59:01 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1633
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rowsdower
Okay, this tells me everything I need to know. You're actually linking to an ALJeZeera website for a little "Balance"? AlJezeera, the most anti-Israel, anti America, pro terror propoganda machine on the planet. Glad to know who I'm really talking to here. I know that anything I say to try and debate with you is pointless, I can see where your heart really is.
Rowsdower:
I have not engaged previously (I don't think I have), but, please do not levy accusations like this against anybody here. You most probably do not know how seriously Ccoppenberger approaches issues in the discussions here. Saying "I can see where your heart really is" is a veiled personal attack for which he could report you to the admins for violation of CrossWalk's Terms of Service.
Furthermore, I suggest you watch a few Al-Jazeera English news clips on Youtube. They employ American and English reporters and journalists and they are actually rather informative.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 7:01:55 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1633
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rowsdower
Of course. Just ask the UN. They're the world authority on asking Israel to take whatever the Palestinians, under their elected Hamas governement, can dish out. This is so sickening.
Here's a little quote from Hamas in the news:
"This heroic attack in Jerusalem is a normal response to the crimes of the occupier and its murder of civilians," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said.
Yeah, this coming from people who launch rockets into civilian neighborhoods, then use their own people as human shields, women and children, and then blame Israel for their deaths. Pathetic. There will be NO PEACE unless Hamas GOES, the Palestinians acknolege Israel's right to exist as a nation, and they stop the bloodshed, period! The burden is on them! Anyone who believes otherwise is just deluded.
Enough is enough! We as Christians MUST stand with ISRAEL on this, period. No more excuses.
The UN has levied more resolutions against Israel than it ever did on Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Don't even bring the UN into it; the vast majority of these resolutions condemning Israel's actions were received with "NO" from the United States (and Israel itself).
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 7:05:43 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10887
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
For a little balance:
Several dead in Jerusalem attack
You might want to note that this was not a West Bank or Gazan resident. It was a resident of Jerusalem.
The identity still seems even a little dubious.
"Balance" is spoken of often in this thread... I understand having a heart for the lost, those who don't know Jesus, but to the detriment of a people who can trace their actual bloodline back to Abraham, Issac and Jacob? That is what I just do not understand! There is plenty of room for a true peace for both the Jews and the Arabs in the area. Why the outcry against a sliver of land the size of New Jersey for the Jewish nation?
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 7:09:34 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1633
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rowsdower
I told you what I propose. Hamas needs to GO, the Palestinians need to acknowledge Israel's right to exist as a nation, and they need to stop blowing people up in the name of Allah and Islam. It's pretty simple.
Funny how you twisted what I said and tried to insinuate that I suggest they bomb the West bank into oblivion...and then try and look like a saint yourself by saying Christ would never do that. Nice try, I'll give you an A for effort on that little stunt.
Why don't YOU propose something for a change. What should Israel do? They are under constant attack from people who do not wish to coexist with them. Answer that one.
Hamas came to power via the ballot box. The Palestinian people chose them in a free and democratic election which foreign observers lauded for fairness and transparency.
While I agree that Hamas should, and believe they ultimately will, acknowledge Israel's right to exist, they got to where they are in part thanks to the corrupt and inefficient Fatah. And, remember that the Bush administration has made regime change and the spread of democracy key foreign policy notes. Well, too bad for them that free elections catapulted Hamas to power.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 7:20:24 PM
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rowsdower
Posts: 70
Joined: 10/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: rowsdower
Okay, this tells me everything I need to know. You're actually linking to an ALJeZeera website for a little "Balance"? AlJezeera, the most anti-Israel, anti America, pro terror propoganda machine on the planet. Glad to know who I'm really talking to here. I know that anything I say to try and debate with you is pointless, I can see where your heart really is.
Rowsdower:
I have not engaged previously (I don't think I have), but, please do not levy accusations like this against anybody here. You most probably do not know how seriously Ccoppenberger approaches issues in the discussions here. Saying "I can see where your heart really is" is a veiled personal attack for which he could report you to the admins for violation of CrossWalk's Terms of Service.
Furthermore, I suggest you watch a few Al-Jazeera English news clips on Youtube. They employ American and English reporters and journalists and they are actually rather informative.
My apologies, there was no personal attack intended, and I'm sorry about that. I'll seperate my comment from being personal. Al-Jazeera has long been a mouthpiece for terrorists and those who are sympathetic to suicide bombers. I can't take anything they say as balanced or informative.
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Israel commits war crimes - again. - 3/6/2008 7:52:42 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1633
Joined: 5/4/2005
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I have written here previously that Israel has committed war crimes. It has done this again against Gaza civilians.
Israeli forces have launched military strikes from the air and from the ground. Ostensibly, the objective is to force the stoppage of rocket firing agains Israeli civilians.
I utterly and angrily condemn all violent acts against Israeli civilians. But having said this, I say this to all of you, including some of you who have asked me directly why I don't speak about Israeli civilians suffering.
Do two wrongs make a right?
Now, on to my post's main point, that the State of Israel is committing war crimes against the civilians of Gaza.
Israel recently struck a medical center. Babies died.
I strongly suspect that if Hamas had the means to hit an Israeli hospital and Israeli babies died, those here who defend Israel would be up in arms.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Israel in the news - 3/6/2008 7:54:38 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1633
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rowsdower
My apologies, there was no personal attack intended, and I'm sorry about that. I'll seperate my comment from being personal. Al-Jazeera has long been a mouthpiece for terrorists and those who are sympathetic to suicide bombers. I can't take anything they say as balanced or informative.
My post immediately before this one contains a video link from English Al-Jazeera. I suggest you take a look.
And this isn't to you per se, but I wonder why the American media hasn't shown images of the civilian casualties in Gaza. Israel cuts off their electricity and now it strikes civilian targets. If this was reversed - Palestinian authorities striking Israeli homes and civilian centers with firepower on the scale Israel is using - I don't want to imagine the uproar here and by pro-Israel US politicians.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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Israeli war crimes - more news - 3/6/2008 8:04:09 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1633
Joined: 5/4/2005
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1. Egypt is taking in wounded Gaza civilians.
2. In response to the Israeli Defense Forces' recent statement that 90% of the dead in Gaza were armed militants, B'Tselem, an Israeli NGO, stated that more than half of the dead in Gaza were not combatants.
(For more information on what B'Tselem is, visit their website.)
3. The Jerusalem Post says the IDF wants to "topple" Hamas. But since when is the use of force to topple a democratically elected government acceptable?
4. Although this was published here before (I think), it merits a second mention. A few days ago, Matan Vilnai, the Deputy Defense Minister of Israel, said that "The more Qassam fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they will bring upon themselves a bigger holocaust because we will use all our might to defend ourselves." I will repeat that the use of rockets against Israeli civilians is reprehensible and indeed, I consider it to be a war crime. But isn't it odd that Christians in America who support Israel so adamantly and consider the Nazi Holocaust as justification for such unbridled support to the Jewish state feel no indignation about an Israeli politician warning that Palestinian civilians will suffer a "holocaust?" (despite the clarifications he tried to make after, as per this link?)
And by the way, here, I said it - I strongly condemn attacks on Israeli civilians. But I am skeptical as to whether anyone here will condemn Israeli strikes on Gaza civilians, which have resulted in many dead civilians (including young children and babies).
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Israeli war crimes - more news - 3/6/2008 9:28:07 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2545
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
But I am skeptical as to whether anyone here will condemn Israeli strikes on Gaza civilians, which have resulted in many dead civilians (including young children and babies).[/size][/font]
I do and I think it is horrible! Attacks on innocent lives is beyond horrible, actually!
I am curious, RichLP,
What is your solution to the loss of innocent life? If you have mentioned it before, please forgive me. I have not read through the whole thread.
Please, also tell us why you think your plan will work? How will you implement it? How will you keep it in place? What will prevent it from going backwards to the loss of innocent lives, again?
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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