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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/3/2008 2:54:12 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
I was responding to the OP with these cases. If you want to talk about persecution of gays open your own thread up. Then again it would be shut down and you would be told to take it to the one stop thread for that.
I'm confused as to why you brought up that case.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/3/2008 5:13:11 PM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
I was responding to the OP with these cases. If you want to talk about persecution of gays open your own thread up. Then again it would be shut down and you would be told to take it to the one stop thread for that.
So in other words, this seems to indicate that everyone is getting "persecuted" and, consequentially, suing because of it.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/3/2008 11:34:25 PM
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Marcus.
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The homosexual angle to that case was the cause of the censorship of Christian beliefs. The homosexual wasn't being persecuted but was the cause of the it.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/4/2008 10:28:54 AM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
The homosexual angle to that case was the cause of the censorship of Christian beliefs. The homosexual wasn't being persecuted but was the cause of the it.
So his being harrassed and punished caused Christians to be persecuted? Are you saying that Christian teachers and staff should be allowed (I gather it was a public school) to force someone to read Bible verses? And to punish them because they are openly gay (or whatever else "Christians" might disprove)?
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/4/2008 10:57:32 AM
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Marcus.
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The fear of offending the homosexual caused the school administration to censor the Christian message. You have it backwards. This is what our future holds as fear of offending this new Immorality takes hold. Traditional beliefs are being marginalized, vilified, and silenced. We are just seeing the start of this.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/4/2008 1:49:29 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
The fear of offending the homosexual caused the school administration to censor the Christian message. You have it backwards. This is what our future holds as fear of offending this new Immorality takes hold. Traditional beliefs are being marginalized, vilified, and silenced. We are just seeing the start of this.
I'm just reading from your post. marcus. The school officials "harrassed and punished him-- even making him read Bible verse aloud." Doesn't sound like they were afraid, LOL. It sounds like you are in favor of Christians being able to harrass non-believers and/or believers that might not agree with them. If that's your attitude, you got zero credibility. It's just a Christian form of sharia law.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/4/2008 6:12:36 PM
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Marcus.
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You obviously do not know me. As I said I posted that in reference to the Christian censorship.
Bullying of all types is a problem not just in our school system but thoughout life. How many types of people get pushed around short, fat, unattractive, awkward, etc. It's more than too bad that teachers don't nip those behaviors in the bud. But to try to draw the line between the bullying one segment of our society gets to acceptance of it and at the same time silence the Christian voice in our communities is more than a stretch. It's simply a ploy to destroy moral teachings against this behavior. Yet that is how some schools and teachers are handling this culture war.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/5/2008 1:15:07 AM
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EverLearning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
So, was the case of the gay junior high school student persecution?
No Cow. Obviously you still don't understand. It is perfectly alright for "Christians" to force those that they don't agree with into humiliating circumstances but if one of those poor "christians" is made to feel uncomfortable or isn't allowed to force his particular views down the throats of everyone around him that is PERSECUTION.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/5/2008 1:35:04 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
You obviously do not know me. As I said I posted that in reference to the Christian censorship.
Bullying of all types is a problem not just in our school system but thoughout life. How many types of people get pushed around short, fat, unattractive, awkward, etc. It's more than too bad that teachers don't nip those behaviors in the bud. But to try to draw the line between the bullying one segment of our society gets to acceptance of it and at the same time silence the Christian voice in our communities is more than a stretch. It's simply a ploy to destroy moral teachings against this behavior. Yet that is how some schools and teachers are handling this culture war.
It's just a questionable example to us in making your point as the school personnel were miles over the line.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/5/2008 3:25:58 PM
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Marcus.
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I thought it was a spot on example of censorship of a Christian.
I remember now why I included the other paragraph in the cut and paste. I thought they occurred at the same school. I didn't notice till I went back and looked after the fact that they were at unrelated schools.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/10/2008 12:52:29 PM
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Marcus.
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Christian professor's lawsuit against employer going forward
Allie Martin - OneNewsNow - 4/10/2008 11:00:00 AM
A federal court has refused to dismiss a discrimination lawsuit filed by a professor at the University of North Carolina-Wilmington, who claims he was harassed and denied a promotion after he became a Christian.
Dr. Mike Adams was hired to teach at the school in 1993. He was named associate professor in 1998, with a long line of research resulting in ten peer-reviewed publications and accolades from his colleagues. In 2000, Adams became a Christian and, four years later, applied to be named a full professor.
Continued
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/10/2008 12:57:21 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Christian professor's lawsuit against employer going forward
Allie Martin - OneNewsNow - 4/10/2008 11:00:00 AM
A federal court has refused to dismiss a discrimination lawsuit filed by a professor at the University of North Carolina-Wilmington, who claims he was harassed and denied a promotion after he became a Christian.
Dr. Mike Adams was hired to teach at the school in 1993. He was named associate professor in 1998, with a long line of research resulting in ten peer-reviewed publications and accolades from his colleagues. In 2000, Adams became a Christian and, four years later, applied to be named a full professor.
Continued
True persecution would be having no recourse. He has recourse and it appears to be going well. Redress is an example of freedom, not persecution.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/10/2008 1:12:38 PM
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Marcus.
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Wrong that is persecution. It just hasn't become society wide yet is all.
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 4/10/2008 1:21:30 PM >
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/10/2008 6:57:11 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Wrong that is persecution. It just hasn't become society wide yet is all.
Since there is redress, your premise is faulty.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/10/2008 7:06:43 PM
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Marcus.
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I see you have your own private definition of the word.
You'll have to enlighten us then because I understood the word to mean....
From Wikipedia. quote:
Persecution is the active, systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group or individual.
or from Online Etymology Dictionary
quote:
c.1340, "oppression for the holding of a belief or opinion," from O.Fr. persecution (12c.), from L. persecutionem (nom. persecutio), noun of action from persequi "pursue, start a legal action," from per- "through" + sequi "follow" (see sequel). The verb persecute is attested from 1482 in the sense of "to oppress for the holding of a belief or opinion," from M.Fr. persécuter "pursue, torment, open legal action" (14c.), from L. persecutus, pp. of persequi. Psychological persecution complex is recorded from 1961; earlier persecution mania (1892).
From my understanding of the word, one person can persecute another. Whether or not recourse is possible is immaterial.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/11/2008 12:55:49 AM
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relady
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quote:
Persecution is the active, systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group or individual. It must be SYSTEMATIC mistreatment. While it is possible in certain instances for this to happen in the U.S., I don't believe that it is all that common. In fact, it is quite uncommon. Are there instances of persecution? Probably. But many Christians have their own private brand of "persecution" that they enjoy inflicting as well. There's no way you can completely put an end to each and every instance without infringing on everyone's liberty and instituting a tyranny. thanks, but I'd much rather have to deal with an infrequent instance of persecution -- at least we can do something about it.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/11/2008 2:39:20 AM
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Marcus.
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The last case sounded systematic and continuing to me.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/11/2008 3:02:31 AM
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Annie64
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I have to disagree with those who are saying that it isn't "real" persecution if it's not "systematic" (and by that apparently meaning done by the state or the government) or if it's illegal and those who do it are stopped or punished. Some seem to think that because it is rare it is unimportant. It was my understanding that Christians were among those who were specifically targeted at Columbine. That wasn't systematic, legal, or common. But what does that matter to those who were killed?
The professor in Marcus' example is apparently standing up against a COMMON practice that is not only affecting college professors but what is taught to our nations young adults experiencing freedom for the first time. If it is difficult for a professor to be a Christian, there will be few Christians teaching in colleges. Whether or not this is "real" persecution, and I think it is, the professor deserves our compassion. He's going through something that shouldn't be happening. And for the sake of all our nations colleges, and the students in them as well as the professors, I hope he wins.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/11/2008 10:20:16 AM
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relady
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quote:
The last case sounded systematic and continuing to me. Has it happened to others as well? If so, then you might have a case for systematic. If he's the only one, I'd call it discrimination and cheer him on in court while he stands up for his rights. But I wouldn't call it persecution in our traditional sense of understanding the word.
Do incidents of persecution exist in America? Probably. But as long as people have a way to address the issue when it happens, I'd say that we are so many light years ahead of countries where serious, ingrained, systematic persecution happens that even bringing it up makes us sound like whiners.
When it's an isolated incident, I'd more likely call it discrimination. But then, I've seen discrimination defended on these very boards, so.....
< Message edited by relady -- 4/11/2008 10:27:31 AM >
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/11/2008 11:51:09 AM
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Marcus.
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relady said in post 146:
quote:
But as long as people have a way to address the issue when it happens, I'd say that we are so many light years ahead of countries where serious, ingrained, systematic persecution happens that even bringing it up makes us sound like whiners.
We're in agreement on that part of your statement.
I like to keep up on persecution of believers. What this prof experienced unfortunately seems to be more common than anyone wants to admit. We just had another high profile case from Iowa state several months ago. That particular prof had more papers and accolades than the rest of the physics department combined but he was singled out because he is a supporter of ID. From what I've read Dr Gonzalez is one of the top 10 astronomers in the field. From the leaked internal documents from Iowa State, it's obvious his personal beliefs were the sole and primary reason tenure was denied.
The FIRE website has many many instances of systematic discrimination/persecution of believers on college campuses. At least in one part of our society systematic discrimination/persecution of Christians by atheists/agnostics is becoming the norm.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/15/2008 1:54:42 AM
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bufo
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Can someone who does not publically profess a Christian belief be elected to the Presidency of the U.S.?
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/15/2008 8:40:42 AM
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Marcus.
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How does that relate to the OP?
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RE: Persecution in America? - 4/15/2008 9:36:00 AM
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TheoCentric
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He/she is reversing the question.
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