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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/2/2008 11:55:14 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colleague3674
I would love to agree with UWS on this but I don't believe the blanket statement of God is love applies. God is not love alone and scripture does state that He God has hate for some...Esau for one.
But to answer your question BroBrian, I must first ask how do you define hate and how can anyone define God's version of hate?
Luk 14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Most all commentaries (and Christians I know) explain that this does not mean hate as we use it but in this context it is demonstrating the extreem to which we are to esteem Him in comparison to ourselves and family.
To me, Hate means you'd rather see someone dead than breathing. Is that God's definition? I'll not venture a guess because I've never seen scripture define it.
God hated Esau per scripture and Esau led a fair long and productive life...father of the Edomites if memory serves me correct.
Yet Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3) and died for it...
Sorry Bro', I can't in good conscience give an answer of yea or nay.
Clearly,the hatred Of God would be different of that of humans.Also just because Essau lived a long wordly "productictive" life has nothing to do with it.One could even say that it is the wrath of God that allowed him to have his joy in the earth and have his pain in....
I don't need to give an ipinion on the matter,scripture plainly says so.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/2/2008 11:58:34 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
quote:
There is no denying that there are people that God hates. The problem is no one likes to admit that. People try to get God to confirm to their ideas of what they think he should be or what they want him to be. But to answer your question, yes, God hates.
So this means that if someone doesn't accept Jesus as their Savior and they die without Him, then God hates them for all eternity? I ask this is because sometimes people who don't like me angrily tell me to go there. If they curse me by telling me to go there, then that means that they probably hate me. In the same way, can God be perceived as hating someone enough to curse them by sending them to hell because they didn't accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior?
Is that not what happens when men deny God?
Also this is what Charles Spurgeon writes:(long but worth the read)
Psalm 5:5
Exposition
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight. Sinners are fools written large. A little sin is a great folly, and the greatest of all folly is great sin. Such sinful fools as these must be banished from the court of heaven. Earthly kings were wont to have fools in their trains, but the only wise God will have no fools in his palace above.
Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. It is not a little dislike, but a thorough hatred which God bears to workers of iniquity. To be hated of God is an awful thing. O let us be very faithful in warning the wicked around us, for it will be a terrible thing for them to fall into the hands of an angry God!
Explanatory Notes and Quaint Sayings
Ver. 4-6. Here the Lord's alienation from the wicked is set forth gradually, and seems to rise by six steps. First, he hath no pleasure in them; secondly, they shall not dwell with him; thirdly, he casteth them forth, they shall not stand in his sight; fourthly, his heart turns from them, thou hatest all the workers of iniquity; fifthly, his hand is turned upon them, thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing; sixthly, his spirit rises against them, and is alienated from them, the Lord will abhor the bloody man. This estrangement is indeed a strange (yet a certain) punishment to the workers of iniquity. These words, "the workers of iniquity," may be considered two ways. First, as intending (not all degrees of sinners, or sinners of every degree, but) the highest degree of sinners, great, and gross sinners, resolved and wilful sinners. Such as sin industriously, and, as it were, artificially, with skill and care to get themselves a name, as if they had an ambition to be accounted workmen that need not to be ashamed of doing that whereof all ought to be ashamed; these, in strictness of Scripture sense, are "workers of iniquity." Hence note, notorious sinners make sin their business, or trade. Though every sin be a work of iniquity, yet only some sinners are "workers of iniquity;" and they who are called so, make their calling to sin. We read of some who love and make a lie. Revelation 22:15. A lie may be told by those who neither love nor make it; but there are lie-makers, and they, sure enough, are lovers of a lie. Such craftsmen in sinning are also described in Psalms 58:2—"Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth." The psalmist doth not say, they had wickedness in their heart, but they did work it there; the heart is a shop within, an underground shop; there they did closely contrive, forge, and hammer out their wicked purposes, and fit them into actions. Joseph Caryl.
What an astonishing thing is sin, which maketh the God of love and Father of mercies an enemy to his creatures, and which could only be purged by the blood of the Son of God! Though all must believe this who believe the Bible, yet the exceeding sinfulness of sin is but weakly apprehended by those who have the deepest sense of it, and will never be fully known in this world. Thomas Adam's Private Thoughts, 1701-1784.
(last clause). Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. For what God thinks of sin, see Deuteronomy 7:22; Proverbs 6:16; Revelation 2:6, 15; where he expresseth his detestation and hatred of it, from which hatred proceeds all those direful plagues and judgments thundered from the fiery mouth of his most holy law against it; nay, not only the work, but worker also of iniquity becomes the object of his hatred. William Gurnall.
(last clause). Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. If God's hatred be against the workers of iniquity, how great is it against iniquity itself! If a man hates a poisonous creature, he hates poison much more. The strength of God's hatred is against sin, and so should we hate sin, and hate it with strength; it is an abomination unto God, let it be so unto us. Proverbs 6:16-19, "These six things doth the Lord hate; yea, seven are an abomination unto him; a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." William Greenhill.
(last clause). Those whom the Lord hates must perish. But he hates impenitent sinners, Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Now, who are so properly workers of iniquity as those who are so eager at it that they will not leave this work, though they be in danger to perish for it? Christ puts it out of doubt. The workers of iniquity must perish. Luke 13:27. Those whom the Lord will tear in his wrath must perish with a witness; but those whom he hates, he tears, &c. Job 16:8. What more due to such impenitent sinners than hatred? What more proper than wrath, since they treasure up wrath? Romans 2:5. Will he entertain those in the bosom of love whom his soul hates? No; destruction is their portion. Proverbs 21:15. If all the curses of the law, all the threatenings of the gospel, all judgments in earth or in hell, will be the ruin of him, he must perish. If the Lord's arm be strong enough to wound him dead, he must die. Psalms 68:21 ... Avoid all that Christ hates. If you love, approve, entertain that which is hateful to Christ, how can he love you? What is that which Christ hates? The psalmist (Psalms 45:7) tells us, making it one of Christ's attributes, to hate wickedness ... As Christ hates iniquity, so the "workers of iniquity." You must not love them, so as to be intimate with them, delight in the company of evil doers, openly profane, scorners of godliness, obstructors of the power of it. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. If you love so near relations to wicked men, Christ will have no relation to you. If you would have communion with Christ in sweet acts of love, you must have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, nor those that act them. David Clarkson, B.D., 1621-1686.
—Treasury of David, The
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 4/3/2008 12:09:45 AM >
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/3/2008 12:15:08 AM
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nau
Posts: 1
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hi sam, just joinned thie forumn and saw that ure also online...so, just thought to pass the love. God Bless. Nau
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/3/2008 12:27:29 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 539
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
The Holy Spirit is God. God IS love. God does not hate anyone.
That is a lie,How do you confront the Psalms 5:5,11:5,7:11...
How do you explain your language?
Is it your belief that God hates everyone? Since we all do wrong?
what do you mean how do I explain my langauge?
And it is clear that though we are all sinners,true believers are seen righteous by God through the atonement of Jesus Christ.
So if I may ask,do you disagree or agree with scripture when it clearly states that God hates sinners?
If you disagree with what scripture says then there is no point in argueing.
I think that when one studies the Word of God, it is never a good idea to throw out the obvious and cling to the obscure. In order to believe in a God of hate you have to throw out the clear and substantial revelation of God as a God of love. Of a God who has given this love letter to those He has created. To see a God of hate in this love letter is rather an oxy moron.
Peace
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/3/2008 12:54:30 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nau
hi sam, just joinned thie forumn and saw that ure also online...so, just thought to pass the love. God Bless. Nau
Hey Nau!Welcome...It's a great board and I have learned a lot since being here.Thank you for the luv and may the Lord continue to bless you!
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/3/2008 1:15:36 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
The Holy Spirit is God. God IS love. God does not hate anyone.
That is a lie,How do you confront the Psalms 5:5,11:5,7:11...
How do you explain your language?
Is it your belief that God hates everyone? Since we all do wrong?
what do you mean how do I explain my langauge?
And it is clear that though we are all sinners,true believers are seen righteous by God through the atonement of Jesus Christ.
So if I may ask,do you disagree or agree with scripture when it clearly states that God hates sinners?
If you disagree with what scripture says then there is no point in argueing.
I think that when one studies the Word of God, it is never a good idea to throw out the obvious and cling to the obscure. In order to believe in a God of hate you have to throw out the clear and substantial revelation of God as a God of love. Of a God who has given this love letter to those He has created. To see a God of hate in this love letter is rather an oxy moron.
Peace
With all due respect,that is ridiculous.I find it very interesting that you have ignoreed my points and kept to your opinion without even trying to reconsile your opinion and the word of God.
God's word is not a love letter,God's word is not about you.God's word is all about God.Do you think that his narrow gate is a love letter to those who hate him?
God is clearly a God of love,that is revealed each and everyday.But the Hatred of God is also revealed every day in his word and not only that but in this present day as men die and go to hell.
Could you please tell me what you think about these verses?
The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquityPsalm 5:5 (New King James Version)
The LORD tests the righteous,
But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Psalm 11:5 (New King James Version)
God is a just judge,
And God is angry with the wicked every day.
If he does not turn back,
He will sharpen His sword;
He bends His bow and makes it ready.
He also prepares for Himself instruments of death;
He makes His arrows into fiery shafts.
Psalm 7:11-13 (New King James Version)
To say that God loves every one is unbiblical and a lie,It may sound great and tickle the ears of sinners but it doesnt make it true.
The Lord is not some old grand-pa or santa Clause,he is the God who is to be feared.
God is very loving,but that does'nt mean that he doesnt'/cant hate.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/3/2008 9:34:15 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 539
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
The Holy Spirit is God. God IS love. God does not hate anyone.
That is a lie,How do you confront the Psalms 5:5,11:5,7:11...
How do you explain your language?
Is it your belief that God hates everyone? Since we all do wrong?
what do you mean how do I explain my langauge?
And it is clear that though we are all sinners,true believers are seen righteous by God through the atonement of Jesus Christ.
So if I may ask,do you disagree or agree with scripture when it clearly states that God hates sinners?
If you disagree with what scripture says then there is no point in argueing.
I think that when one studies the Word of God, it is never a good idea to throw out the obvious and cling to the obscure. In order to believe in a God of hate you have to throw out the clear and substantial revelation of God as a God of love. Of a God who has given this love letter to those He has created. To see a God of hate in this love letter is rather an oxy moron.
Peace
With all due respect,that is ridiculous.I find it very interesting that you have ignoreed my points and kept to your opinion without even trying to reconsile your opinion and the word of God.
God's word is not a love letter,God's word is not about you.God's word is all about God.Do you think that his narrow gate is a love letter to those who hate him?
God is clearly a God of love,that is revealed each and everyday.But the Hatred of God is also revealed every day in his word and not only that but in this present day as men die and go to hell.
Could you please tell me what you think about these verses?
The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquityPsalm 5:5 (New King James Version)
The LORD tests the righteous,
But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Psalm 11:5 (New King James Version)
God is a just judge,
And God is angry with the wicked every day.
If he does not turn back,
He will sharpen His sword;
He bends His bow and makes it ready.
He also prepares for Himself instruments of death;
He makes His arrows into fiery shafts.
Psalm 7:11-13 (New King James Version)
To say that God loves every one is unbiblical and a lie,It may sound great and tickle the ears of sinners but it doesnt make it true.
The Lord is not some old grand-pa or santa Clause,he is the God who is to be feared.
God is very loving,but that does'nt mean that he doesnt'/cant hate.
I am sorry, but I do not recognize this God you present. Perhaps when you mature you will see that not everything is as it appears at first glance. Peace.
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/3/2008 12:23:04 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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URForgiven
quote:
I am sorry, but I do not recognize this God you present. Perhaps when you mature you will see that not everything is as it appears at first glance. Peace.
Lol..This is unblievable.All I did was give you scriptures,and i a'm asking you to reconsile scripture with your opinion and you refuse to do so.If you claim to not recognize the God that "I" present then you clearly do not recognize the God of scripture beause that is all I have presented.
And please do not insult me by taking a stab at my age.I did not stumble upon this teaching,it is clearly stated in scripture.This was a teaching that was common from the early church to the Spurgeons/Edwards/Moody and so forth..Not until the "Gospel" lite era did this false teaching become popular.
If I am wrong please confront the verses I have provided and avoid opinion.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/3/2008 12:51:41 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 539
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
URForgiven
quote:
I am sorry, but I do not recognize this God you present. Perhaps when you mature you will see that not everything is as it appears at first glance. Peace.
Lol..This is unblievable.All I did was give you scriptures,and i a'm asking you to reconsile scripture with your opinion and you refuse to do so.If you claim to not recognize the God that "I" present then you clearly do not recognize the God of scripture beause that is all I have presented.
And please do not insult me by taking a stab at my age.I did not stumble upon this teaching,it is clearly stated in scripture.This was a teaching that was common from the early church to the Spurgeons/Edwards/Moody and so forth..Not until the "Gospel" lite era did this false teaching become popular.
If I am wrong please confront the verses I have provided and avoid opinion.
I will ask you again. Do you believe that God hates everyone? If God hates all those who do wrong and all do wrong, that must mean God hates everyone. That would include you, the worst of all sinners , as you say of yourself.
I will answer it for you. No. God does not hate anyone, because God cannot hate. God is Love. To hate would be contrary to His nature, causing Him to no longer be God at all.
It is one thing to read what a passage says, it is quite another to know what it means.
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/3/2008 3:53:32 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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UrForgiven
quote:
I will ask you again. Do you believe that God hates everyone? If God hates all those who do wrong and all do wrong, that must mean God hates everyone. That would include you, the worst of all sinners , as you say of yourself .
Again you continue to neglect the scriptures I have provided and continue to accept the lies that you have laid up for yourself.I have already answered this question but i will answer it again.
As scripture says God hated me in his righteousness but through the glorious atonement Christ he loves me.
God does not hate christians because we are counted as a righteous people due to the atonement of christ.Unbelievers are not saved so they are still regarded as sinners.
Christians are clearly sinners but we are also clearly not regarded as sinners due to Christ.Many times in context when scripture speaks of sinners it clearly does not speak of all peoples but those who are not saved.
quote:
I will answer it for you. No. God does not hate anyone, because God cannot hate. God is Love. To hate would be contrary to His nature, causing Him to no longer be God at all.
God cannot hate?That's Heresy,how can you reconsile your beliefs with scripture?God cannot hate?I guess that God doesnt hate sin,God does not hate Satan and according to your belifs,the Bible is not the infallible word of God but your opinion is,right?
quote:
It is one thing to read what a passage says, it is quite another to know what it means.
Ok,thanks for the insight..you are right,I should study what the verses mean.so an you please tell me what they mean since I am wrong or will you avoid it again?
The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity Psalm 5:5 (New King James Version)
The LORD tests the righteous,
But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates. Psalm 11:5 (New King James Version)
God is a just judge,
And God is angry with the wicked every day.
If he does not turn back,
He will sharpen His sword;
He bends His bow and makes it ready.
He also prepares for Himself instruments of death;
He makes His arrows into fiery shafts. Psalm 7:11-13 (New King James Version)
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 4/3/2008 4:00:55 PM >
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/5/2008 8:13:02 AM
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TheoJunkie
Posts: 2344
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Death to Life
Status: offline
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URForgiven,
Your challenge to Sammy consists of two logical fallacies, and therefore is no challenge at all. You postulate:
A) If God does not love everyone
then
B) God must hate everyone.
Therefore
C) If God loves anyone
then
D) God cannot hate anyone.
When you mature  you will see that "everyone" is the full set of humanity, but "anyone" is only a partial set of humanity. You are in essence comparing apples to oranges. A similar fallacy would be exemplified as follows:
A) If you are not forgiven
then
B) No one can be forgiven
Therefore
C) If you are forgiven
then
D) Everyone must be forgiven.
Is everyone forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
Are you forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
If you answer the above correctly and honestly, you will have your answer regarding whether God hates anyone, given the fact that he indeed does not hate everyone.
(PS, your second logical fallacy is this: A) If God is love, then B) God is nothing else. But we can discuss that later).
(PPS... I think the following has backfired on you:
quote:
I am sorry, but I do not recognize this God you present.
... If you are wrong here, then it means you do not recognize God for who He is... and that would not be a good state for you to be in... Of course, you only meant that quote as a slam on Sammy, but see how careful you must be when slinging sharp objects around...)
< Message edited by TheoJunkie -- 4/5/2008 8:21:52 AM >
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/5/2008 9:45:21 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 539
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheoJunkie
URForgiven,
Your challenge to Sammy consists of two logical fallacies, and therefore is no challenge at all. You postulate:
A) If God does not love everyone
then
B) God must hate everyone.
Therefore
C) If God loves anyone
then
D) God cannot hate anyone.
When you mature you will see that "everyone" is the full set of humanity, but "anyone" is only a partial set of humanity. You are in essence comparing apples to oranges. A similar fallacy would be exemplified as follows:
A) If you are not forgiven
then
B) No one can be forgiven
Therefore
C) If you are forgiven
then
D) Everyone must be forgiven.
Is everyone forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
Are you forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
If you answer the above correctly and honestly, you will have your answer regarding whether God hates anyone, given the fact that he indeed does not hate everyone.
(PS, your second logical fallacy is this: A) If God is love, then B) God is nothing else. But we can discuss that later).
(PPS... I think the following has backfired on you:
quote:
I am sorry, but I do not recognize this God you present.
... If you are wrong here, then it means you do not recognize God for who He is... and that would not be a good state for you to be in... Of course, you only meant that quote as a slam on Sammy, but see how careful you must be when slinging sharp objects around...)
The only thing I can say to you is that you have developed a rather unique and inventive interpretation of what I have said. That is putting it as nicely as I can. Peace.
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/6/2008 2:25:18 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheoJunkie
URForgiven,
Your challenge to Sammy consists of two logical fallacies, and therefore is no challenge at all. You postulate:
A) If God does not love everyone
then
B) God must hate everyone.
Therefore
C) If God loves anyone
then
D) God cannot hate anyone.
When you mature you will see that "everyone" is the full set of humanity, but "anyone" is only a partial set of humanity. You are in essence comparing apples to oranges. A similar fallacy would be exemplified as follows:
A) If you are not forgiven
then
B) No one can be forgiven
Therefore
C) If you are forgiven
then
D) Everyone must be forgiven.
Is everyone forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
Are you forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
If you answer the above correctly and honestly, you will have your answer regarding whether God hates anyone, given the fact that he indeed does not hate everyone.
(PS, your second logical fallacy is this: A) If God is love, then B) God is nothing else. But we can discuss that later).
(PPS... I think the following has backfired on you:
quote:
I am sorry, but I do not recognize this God you present.
... If you are wrong here, then it means you do not recognize God for who He is... and that would not be a good state for you to be in... Of course, you only meant that quote as a slam on Sammy, but see how careful you must be when slinging sharp objects around...)
Brilliant.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/6/2008 2:27:21 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheoJunkie
URForgiven,
Your challenge to Sammy consists of two logical fallacies, and therefore is no challenge at all. You postulate:
A) If God does not love everyone
then
B) God must hate everyone.
Therefore
C) If God loves anyone
then
D) God cannot hate anyone.
When you mature you will see that "everyone" is the full set of humanity, but "anyone" is only a partial set of humanity. You are in essence comparing apples to oranges. A similar fallacy would be exemplified as follows:
A) If you are not forgiven
then
B) No one can be forgiven
Therefore
C) If you are forgiven
then
D) Everyone must be forgiven.
Is everyone forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
Are you forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
If you answer the above correctly and honestly, you will have your answer regarding whether God hates anyone, given the fact that he indeed does not hate everyone.
(PS, your second logical fallacy is this: A) If God is love, then B) God is nothing else. But we can discuss that later).
(PPS... I think the following has backfired on you:
quote:
I am sorry, but I do not recognize this God you present.
... If you are wrong here, then it means you do not recognize God for who He is... and that would not be a good state for you to be in... Of course, you only meant that quote as a slam on Sammy, but see how careful you must be when slinging sharp objects around...)
The only thing I can say to you is that you have developed a rather unique and inventive interpretation of what I have said. That is putting it as nicely as I can. Peace.
I mean no disrespect,but atleast he is actually interpreting something.I find it very interesting that you keep avoiding the scriptures I have shared with you.it is a scary thing for one to claim to believe in the bible and deny what it says.
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 4/6/2008 2:34:05 AM >
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/6/2008 7:57:51 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 539
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheoJunkie
URForgiven,
Your challenge to Sammy consists of two logical fallacies, and therefore is no challenge at all. You postulate:
A) If God does not love everyone
then
B) God must hate everyone.
Therefore
C) If God loves anyone
then
D) God cannot hate anyone.
When you mature you will see that "everyone" is the full set of humanity, but "anyone" is only a partial set of humanity. You are in essence comparing apples to oranges. A similar fallacy would be exemplified as follows:
A) If you are not forgiven
then
B) No one can be forgiven
Therefore
C) If you are forgiven
then
D) Everyone must be forgiven.
Is everyone forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
Are you forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
If you answer the above correctly and honestly, you will have your answer regarding whether God hates anyone, given the fact that he indeed does not hate everyone.
(PS, your second logical fallacy is this: A) If God is love, then B) God is nothing else. But we can discuss that later).
(PPS... I think the following has backfired on you:
quote:
I am sorry, but I do not recognize this God you present.
... If you are wrong here, then it means you do not recognize God for who He is... and that would not be a good state for you to be in... Of course, you only meant that quote as a slam on Sammy, but see how careful you must be when slinging sharp objects around...)
The only thing I can say to you is that you have developed a rather unique and inventive interpretation of what I have said. That is putting it as nicely as I can. Peace.
I mean no disrespect,but atleast he is actually interpreting something.I find it very interesting that you keep avoiding the scriptures I have shared with you.it is a scary thing for one to claim to believe in the bible and deny what it says.
I am not denying what it says, I am denying what you say is the meaning of a few obscure passages buried in the OT. [excuse me, and I am sure one obscure passage in the NT, that is referring to an obscure passage in the OT.]
What is scary, as I have said before, is to ignore the clear, overwhelming and obvious in the Word of God, and cling to the obscure. That is the basis for every cult that has ever existed.
Peace
< Message edited by URForgiven -- 4/6/2008 8:53:35 AM >
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/6/2008 10:22:25 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheoJunkie
URForgiven,
Your challenge to Sammy consists of two logical fallacies, and therefore is no challenge at all. You postulate:
A) If God does not love everyone
then
B) God must hate everyone.
Therefore
C) If God loves anyone
then
D) God cannot hate anyone.
When you mature you will see that "everyone" is the full set of humanity, but "anyone" is only a partial set of humanity. You are in essence comparing apples to oranges. A similar fallacy would be exemplified as follows:
A) If you are not forgiven
then
B) No one can be forgiven
Therefore
C) If you are forgiven
then
D) Everyone must be forgiven.
Is everyone forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
Are you forgiven? Yes or no? ... and Why/Why Not?
If you answer the above correctly and honestly, you will have your answer regarding whether God hates anyone, given the fact that he indeed does not hate everyone.
(PS, your second logical fallacy is this: A) If God is love, then B) God is nothing else. But we can discuss that later).
(PPS... I think the following has backfired on you:
quote:
I am sorry, but I do not recognize this God you present.
... If you are wrong here, then it means you do not recognize God for who He is... and that would not be a good state for you to be in... Of course, you only meant that quote as a slam on Sammy, but see how careful you must be when slinging sharp objects around...)
The only thing I can say to you is that you have developed a rather unique and inventive interpretation of what I have said. That is putting it as nicely as I can. Peace.
I mean no disrespect,but atleast he is actually interpreting something.I find it very interesting that you keep avoiding the scriptures I have shared with you.it is a scary thing for one to claim to believe in the bible and deny what it says.
I am not denying what it says, I am denying what you say is the meaning of a few obscure passages buried in the OT. [excuse me, and I am sure one obscure passage in the NT, that is referring to an obscure passage in the OT.]
What is scary, as I have said before, is to ignore the clear, overwhelming and obvious in the Word of God, and cling to the obscure. That is the basis for every cult that has ever existed.
Peace
Ok,so could you please explain what those passages meant since I am clearly wrong?And the funny thingi s that I did not even interepret the passage,I just quoted it!
When you still fail to avoid the question,you are clearly relieing on your opnion/emotions and not God's word.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/6/2008 11:57:54 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 539
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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You are a persistent bugger aren't you?
You need to understand that human language is limited when speaking of God. Words are totally inadequate for explaining an infinite God, and our finite minds are inadequate for fully understanding.
When the Bible says God is Love, it is describing who He is, by describing a characteristic he possesses. When the Bible says Gods hates this or that, it is not describing who he is, nor even a characteristic, but it is explaining how seriously he considers whatever it is applied to.
Even if you want to believe God Hates people, you have acknowledged yourself that it would not be hate like human hate, and you are correct. Even if God did hate, His hate would still be an expression of love. For He IS love, and everything He does, everything he thinks, is an expression of His love.
The problem with thinking of God as a God of Hate, and as a God who hates people is that it will cause you to hate people also. If God hates them, then of course you should hate them also. But we are commanded to love, are we not? Not only to love our brothers and sisters in Christ, but even to love our enemies. We are commanded so because God IS love. God loves even His enemies, and he desires us to do so also.
If you do not believe this, then look to the One who reveals God to us personally and in a way that we can relate to...Jesus Christ. If you truly want to know God, look to Jesus, for He is God. In the same way, if you want to know who a true spiritually alive man is...look to Jesus. For He is also the first man born spiritually alive. Peace.
< Message edited by URForgiven -- 4/7/2008 12:06:41 AM >
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/7/2008 12:55:28 AM
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walterquez
Posts: 1375
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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The scripture talks about the arms, and hands, and or wings of God. Does this mean He has them? Does God hate? Is He ever angry? The scripture is plain that God is Love. This leaves no room for hate.
Also, hate is reactionary. This means the one who is hated has some "control" over the one who is hating. Want to make them hate you, start pushing their buttons. Want them to stop, do something nice for them. It seems you're in complete control. You choose when the other person will hate you, or not.
We know we can't push God's button, and we can't control God.
Does God Love everyone? Of course He does. Will God continue to Love everyone forever? Of course, for God is Love, and He never changes.
What about the Devil? God Loves him too. If He did not, why does he still exist? Without God's Love giving him life, he would not have any existence. The unfortunate side of this is that since the Devil hates God, God's Love burns him. If you go with the flow of God's Love, it is wonderful. You go against the flow, it will burn you, for who can fight against the Love of God?
_____________________________
St. Athanasius the Great
For our Canons and our forms were not given to the Churches at the present day, but were wisely and safely transmitted to us from our forefathers.
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/7/2008 3:27:29 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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URForgiven
quote:
You are a persistent bugger aren't you?
I am simply asking you to explain to me what the passages mean.
quote:
You need to understand that human language is limited when speaking of God. Words are totally inadequate for explaining an infinite God, and our finite minds are inadequate for fully understanding.
The Holy spirit was the author of the bible,I don't think he was limited.The human mind cannot grasp who God is and what he has done for us,but language is not limited.Then why would God write the bible?That is quite off.
quote:
When the Bible says God is Love, it is describing who He is, by describing a characteristic he possesses. When the Bible says Gods hates this or that, it is not describing who he is, nor even a characteristic, but it is explaining how seriously he considers whatever it is applied to.
According to you,since our language is limited.How do I know for sure that,God is love?Maybe it meant something else right?Also,are you cliaming that God does not hate sin as well?Go does not hate anything at all correct?Since he is love right?He loves satan right?That is disturbing to read.
quote:
Even if you want to believe God Hates people, you have acknowledged yourself that it would not be hate like human hate, and you are correct. Even if God did hate, His hate would still be an expression of love. For He IS love, and everything He does, everything he thinks, is an expression of His love.
Ofcourse,God's hate is Holy,Just and very deserving.My hatred for one would come from my wickedness and nothing else.And i have repeated many times that God must hate because he is Love.
quote:
The problem with thinking of God as a God of Hate, and as a God who hates people is that it will cause you to hate people also. If God hates them, then of course you should hate them also. But we are commanded to love, are we not? Not only to love our brothers and sisters in Christ, but even to love our enemies. We are commanded so because God IS love. God loves even His enemies, and he desires us to do so also.
Uhh,No.Actually,I have developed a greater love for other people.And just because God hates them doesnt mean I should as well,how can I?I am not God and my hatred for men would be wickedness while his is Just and Holy.
quote:
If you do not believe this, then look to the One who reveals God to us personally and in a way that we can relate to...Jesus Christ. If you truly want to know God, look to Jesus, for He is God. In the same way, if you want to know who a true spiritually alive man is...look to Jesus. For He is also the first man born spiritually alive. Peace .
Ofcourse,but the fact is that we know Christ through the buble and not our emotions and opinions.
You still havent touched on the passages so O guess that I shouldnt expect you to should I?
Very interesting for one who claims to live according to God's word to run from it and even claim that it is limited.if that isnt Heresy in itself,it will open up Heresy for sure.
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 4/7/2008 4:02:08 AM >
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/7/2008 3:55:49 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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walterquez
quote:
The scripture talks about the arms, and hands, and or wings of God. Does this mean He has them? Does God hate? Is He ever angry? The scripture is plain that God is Love. This leaves no room for hate.
I would assume God has arms and hands(atleast Christ does,Don't know about the Father)But how do you know if God the Father does not have arms,hands and wings?
And I am just shocked that one can read a passage where it clearly says that God hates and is angry and still reject it.Surely,you wouldnt claim that you believe inthe authority of the bible would you?it's funny how you don't question his Love but you question his anger.BTW,If god cannot hate then he certainly loves my sins correct?
Again:
The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity Psalm 5:5 (New King James Version)
The LORD tests the righteous,
But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Psalm 11:5 (New King James Version)
God is a just judge,
And God is angry with the wicked every day.
If he does not turn back, He will sharpen His sword;
He bends His bow and makes it ready.
He also prepares for Himself instruments of death;
He makes His arrows into fiery shafts.
Psalm 7:11-13 (New King James Version)
Clearly says that God hates and is angry.You could make this a lot easier for me and just admit that you do not believe in the authority of scripture.That may be harsh but how else can one deny these clear passages?
quote:
Also, hate is reactionary. This means the one who is hated has some "control" over the one who is hating. Want to make them hate you, start pushing their buttons. Want them to stop, do something nice for them. It seems you're in complete control. You choose when the other person will hate you, or not.
We know we can't push God's button, and we can't control God.
I am sorry but that is absolutely ludacris.Human hatred is reactionary not God's.That there could be your problem,do not compare God to man but rather compare man to God.God's hatred is completely Holy and justified.In fact what men wickedly ignore is that it is a scandal for man to be Loved.No man deserves the Love of God,you and I deserve the worst part of hell.But it is in his love that he chooses to save man.
quote:
Does God Love everyone? Of course He does. Will God continue to Love everyone forever? Of course, for God is Love, and He never changes.
I would love to know where God says he loves all,I don't want your opinion but scripture.
quote:
What about the Devil? God Loves him too. If He did not, why does he still exist? Without God's Love giving him life, he would not have any existence. The unfortunate side of this is that since the Devil hates God, God's Love burns him. If you go with the flow of God's Love, it is wonderful. You go against the flow, it will burn you, for who can fight against the Love of God?
What a bunch of non-sense.That may sound great and lovely but it is not true.Where does it say that God oves satan.Satan is still alive not because God loves him but because God has a plan in having glory for himsef in how he will punish him.
Do you believe that unsaved peoples are God's enemies?
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 4/7/2008 4:04:24 AM >
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/7/2008 8:34:41 AM
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URForgiven
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