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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/19/2007 7:32:16 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1740
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It's a sad sight to see when someone who stands by a spotless record of upholding the Constitution of this wondrous and beautiful democratic nation is attacked by a tag-team of neocons and liberals.
Sadder still are hurtful accusations of bigotry. But of course, ad hominems and politics... it's like a baseball and a bat.
There are some American Jews who support Ron Paul.
"Still, Paul still commands a loyal, albeit small, Jewish following. This Jewish support has followed the same pattern as Paul's backing from other groups -- coming from out-of-the way places on the Internet and taking mainstream media and political organizations by surprise.
In addition to Perry's "Jews for Ron Paul," there is "Zionists For Ron Paul," an outfit launched by Yehuda HaKohen, an American immigrant to Israel, and some of his friends back in the United States."
Read more here. (It may not work as this site requires you to register, but it is free.)
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"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/20/2007 8:19:27 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10797
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From: Lone Star State
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DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!!!
For the record folks, I'm not slamming anyone. I am just sharing what comes across my screen so that when the time comes in the voting booth you can know all there is in order to make a decision.
Perhaps you haven't read the other threads in here. See what there is about Mr. Mayor and his connections. Or the Huckabee thread regarding his good sound but what about his actual record as a governor.
That's what's "with" me. I will trust no one on their face value again.
[ETA]
I truly hope the matter of the neo-Nazi support for Paul does come out nationally, NOT so he can be smeared, but so he can denounce it and come clean about exactly where he stands. As I said, I could respect him just that much more and perhaps see my way with a clear conscience to pull the lever for him if he did. But without that from him, there will remain questions for me.
< Message edited by stamper_ben -- 11/20/2007 8:29:47 AM >
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/20/2007 9:17:51 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1740
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!!!
For the record folks, I'm not slamming anyone. I am just sharing what comes across my screen so that when the time comes in the voting booth you can know all there is in order to make a decision.
Perhaps you haven't read the other threads in here. See what there is about Mr. Mayor and his connections. Or the Huckabee thread regarding his good sound but what about his actual record as a governor.
That's what's "with" me. I will trust no one on their face value again.
[ETA]
I truly hope the matter of the neo-Nazi support for Paul does come out nationally, NOT so he can be smeared, but so he can denounce it and come clean about exactly where he stands. As I said, I could respect him just that much more and perhaps see my way with a clear conscience to pull the lever for him if he did. But without that from him, there will remain questions for me.
That neo-nazis support a candidate does NOT mean the candidate supports THEM.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/20/2007 9:24:57 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10797
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quote:
That neo-nazis support a candidate does NOT mean the candidate supports THEM. I realize that, but it sure would be good to hear it from the Doctor himself.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/20/2007 9:27:39 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1740
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
That neo-nazis support a candidate does NOT mean the candidate supports THEM. I realize that, but it sure would be good to hear it from the Doctor himself.
Silence is not equal to acceptance or agreement. Paul may well be keeping silent so as not to give this rumor/smear attempt any undue credit.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/20/2007 10:14:43 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10797
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But as I said before and will repeat once again, if this matter gets the NATIONAL media attention it deserves then perhaps the good Congressman will HAVE to address it.
And now the question arises... How is it a smear that it has been documented that the neo-nazis and their ilk are supporting Paul? It is not a smear, it is a fact that in my mind NEEDS to be addressed. Maybe not anyone else's mind, but in my own it does...
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/20/2007 10:22:29 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1740
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
But as I said before and will repeat once again, if this matter gets the NATIONAL media attention it deserves then perhaps the good Congressman will HAVE to address it.
And now the question arises... How is it a smear that it has been documented that the neo-nazis and their ilk are supporting Paul? It is not a smear, it is a fact that in my mind NEEDS to be addressed. Maybe not anyone else's mind, but in my own it does...
Let Ron Paul deal with accusations in the manner he deems best.
I am not attacking you Ben, but what I've noticed is that his critics often call him names and wish to keep him out of debates. Attacking his record for supporting the Constitution? No one CAN attack that.
As for why it is a smear, it's a smear because these rumors emerge and people often don't do their due-diligence, and jump to conclusions when they see words like "Nazi," "neo-nazi," and "Stormfront." People make fallacious associations all the time, and guilt by association is often fallacious, as it most definitely is in this case.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/20/2007 10:27:41 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1975
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
But as I said before and will repeat once again, if this matter gets the NATIONAL media attention it deserves then perhaps the good Congressman will HAVE to address it.
And now the question arises... How is it a smear that it has been documented that the neo-nazis and their ilk are supporting Paul? It is not a smear, it is a fact that in my mind NEEDS to be addressed. Maybe not anyone else's mind, but in my own it does...
Ben,
You're making a big deal out of one guy donating $500.
There is no widespread proof that the neo-nazis as a whole even care.
If we dig deep enough, we could probably find all sorts of hate groups supporting any of the candidates.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/20/2007 11:31:31 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10797
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quote:
You're making a big deal out of one guy donating $500. No, I'm not talking about one guy. I'm talking about a mindset in the neo-nazi movement that is attracted to Dr. Paul. I'm sorry if you don't see the linkage.
quote:
If we dig deep enough, we could probably find all sorts of hate groups supporting any of the candidates. Need a shovel? I'll help. It ALL needs to be brought to light.
quote:
Let Ron Paul deal with accusations in the manner he deems best. And let those who are trying to make a determination on who the next president air their views on why or why not he is not addressing neo-nazi support the best way they can. Bottom line is if it upsets you enough to draw you into defending him it seems to have hit a nerve.
quote:
I am not attacking you Ben, but what I've noticed is that his critics often call him names and wish to keep him out of debates. And you have me doing this where? I have not denigrated him personally and I have defended his participation, as I have also defended Dennis Kuchinch's participation.
quote:
As for why it is a smear, it's a smear because these rumors emerge and people often don't do their due-diligence, and jump to conclusions when they see words like "Nazi," "neo-nazi," and "Stormfront." People make fallacious associations all the time, and guilt by association is often fallacious, as it most definitely is in this case. Then let Dr. Paul's position become clear on the matter. It is a simple thing to do to issue a statement.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/20/2007 11:41:18 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1740
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
And let those who are trying to make a determination on who the next president air their views on why or why not he is not addressing neo-nazi support the best way they can. Bottom line is if it upsets you enough to draw you into defending him it seems to have hit a nerve.
Doesn't upset me. I just find it frustrating. Smear attacks are nothing new in American politics and you know it. IF you think this is any issue of such importance, maybe it'd be better to look for solid evidence Paul actually shares the repulsive views that you apparently think he's not doing enough to rebuff.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
And you have me doing this where? I have not denigrated him personally and I have defended his participation, as I have also defended Dennis Kuchinch's participation.
I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU BEN - did you read that?
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Then let Dr. Paul's position become clear on the matter. It is a simple thing to do to issue a statement.
Again you are setting the rules by which a candidate should or should not respond to smear attacks. And because he fails to meet your rules, you determine Paul is questionable.
But in the end IT IS A SMEAR. You do not deny it.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/20/2007 12:11:34 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10797
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I didn't take it as an attack, but it might have been construed as one by others. I just wanted the record clear here.
Yes, I am going to set the rules that I have in order to evaluate a candidate. If the candidate doesn't meet my standards then I am going to be vocal on why I do or do not support said candidate.
Wanting answers to questions from those he wants votes from is in no way a smear. I don't deny that there are those in the world who do want to smear him however.
As was said in the Huckabee thread, there are no perfect candidates. Just as participating in politics as an officeholder is to play the art of compromise, to decide on the candidate one wants to represent one is also to compromise ones ideals of perfection. I would not - COULD not - compromise my values on race relations. THAT is why this is such a big issue for me.
As I said, a simple statement from the Congressman could put this to rest.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/21/2007 4:40:25 PM
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thomas2008
Posts: 312
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From: Potterville, Michigan
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I don't care. I'm still supporting Ron Paul because none of the other guys has any solutions to fix the many problems in this country. They all continue to want bigger government, in the end higher taxes, government infringement on our civil liberties, and a disastrous foreign policy. I believe our founding fathers would support Ron Paul hands down. They certainly wouldn't support anyone like George W. Bush.
If anyone here can show me one single candidate that has the solutions, point him out.
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Warmest Regards,
Thomas Winters
quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force." - George Washington
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/21/2007 9:28:51 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1452
Joined: 10/12/2007
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Obviously, that would be Vermin Supreme. Frankly, all of this world's problems can be attributed to people not brushing their teeth, and anyone who does not brush on a daily basis should receive the death penalty.
More here: http://www.verminsupreme.com/
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/21/2007 10:24:11 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10797
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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I thought we were supposed to brush after every meal? 
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/22/2007 6:16:53 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 75
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
I thought we were supposed to brush after every meal?
You might wear down the enamel if you do. I thought we were supposed to brush in the morning and at night.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/24/2007 8:05:08 AM
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thomas2008
Posts: 312
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From: Potterville, Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brooklynsblessed1
quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: winterto
I believe our founding fathers would support Ron Paul hands down.
Absolutely agree. Of course, the founding fathers don't seem to matter anymore ... 
Since the diminutive one has no supporters, well maybe nazis and a fake jewish support site..oh yes the Nigerian mass spammers..might as well invoke the dead.
A symbolism for his candidacy.
<font size="3">
You know, all this talk about Nazis and stuff, I just ignore it, because it's nothing but propaganda. I believe there are bigger things on the table to worry about. Unless I actually see proof that Ron Paul is a "racist" as some of you have claimed, I'm going to continue to support Ron Paul.
I mean, you people want him to come out and openly address his position on that. I ask you, why doesn't President Bush have the guts to step up and address failures as President, and has continued in the footsteps of others by further destroying the American pride, by ignoring the Constitution, and continuing our foreign policy that is driving America broke.
Ron Paul is a strict Constitutionalist, therefore how can he be a racist. He believes that all Americans, white or black have the same Constitutional rights. You folks are just like the Democrats, you judge this man without knowing one single thing about him, only from what you read.
I'm sure that if we looked at the other Republicans with a fine tooth comb, that we could see that there are supporters for them that we would find questionable. I mean, doesn't the Bible say, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED? So, why are you judging Ron Paul, when there are bucket loads of problems within the other Republican candidates...Let's see, a supporter of gay marriages and abortions, does that ring a bell?
With Ron Paul having a strong Libertarian backbone, he could not be viewed as a racist by any common sense people, because that kind of view would be a violation of our Constitution, which is color blind!
The only reason people pick up this stuff on Ron Paul is because he's got the guts not to sink down to the level of the other candidates of destroying this nation. So before you judge, Dr. Paul, do some research!
_____________________________
Warmest Regards,
Thomas Winters
quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force." - George Washington
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/24/2007 6:31:49 PM
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Kingsmen-fan
Posts: 288
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-
I am a little affended by this post. I am not a nazi, I'm not Nigerian and I have never been a mass spammer, I am not even a Libertarian. I am a Republican from Alabama and I do like Ron Paul. Do you think I am the only one? Paul now polls at 8% in NH, SC, NV and is at 6% in National polls.
But, as for the nazi support  I would like the Paul campaign to say something about it. And they might have, you often hear the first story and not the answer. I will look and see if I can find if they have.
quote:
ORIGINAL: brooklynsblessed1
Since the diminutive one has no supporters, well maybe nazis and a fake jewish support site..oh yes the Nigerian mass spammers..might as well invoke the dead.
A symbolism for his candidacy.
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- NE - Alabama
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/24/2007 8:14:35 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10797
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
But, as for the nazi support I would like the Paul campaign to say something about it. And they might have, you often hear the first story and not the answer. I will look and see if I can find if they have. Which is just what I have been saying, I would like to see him say something about it also. However, your search at this time will be fruitless. When and if it is forthcoming I'll be sure to pass it along first thing.
As for accusations that I (for it is I who first brought the subject up) am accusing Dr. Paul of being a racist, no such accusation was ever made! It is correct that there is no evidence that he harbors racist views. All that I am bringing up is that in order to perhaps bring some unification to his candidacy (a Constitutional issue or not) it would do a world of good to have him on record as disassociating himself from the Stormfront organization. As I said, it is a stumbling block for me to throw my support behind him because of this issue as it now stands.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/25/2007 8:48:13 AM
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thomas2008
Posts: 312
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Potterville, Michigan
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If Ron Paul did address this issue, people would just find something else to criticize him about.
_____________________________
Warmest Regards,
Thomas Winters
quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force." - George Washington
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