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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 12:42:06 PM
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RichLP
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Here is my take on John McCain’s idiotic remarks last night.
The man is even more ignorant than I thought. My respect to him for his service in Indochina, but he is clueless. And, shameless as well. What was he thinking as he went on live national TV and claimed that those who want an end to the military occupation of Iraq are similar to Nazi enablers? Because that’s what he meant by saying isolationism propelled Adolf Hitler to power.
If Crosswalk’s TOS stipulate we are not to smear America by likening it to the Nazis, shouldn’t we think twice about the suitability of any candidate who is willing to make comparisons to the Nazi leader? As if his vacuous remarks about bombing Iran weren’t enough, or his confusion as illustrated in his belief that Iran is helping al-Qaeda.
Now, let’s see. John said Iraqis will come here and attack our country if we pull out. But didn’t the Vietnamese revolution remain in Indochina after Saigon’s fall? Did any North Vietnamese soldiers ever storm the beaches of California or Hawaii? Did any NVA aircraft ever bomb the Pacific Northwest?
McCain subscribes to the domino theory from the Cold War, but he now says the Vietnamese revolution wasn’t expansionist and rather a domestic movement focusing on VIETNAMESE objectives. Logically then if the domino theory was faulty, what was the point of sending and losing nearly 60 thousand of our best, not to mention the deaths of at least 1 million Vietnamese civilians?
And since the good veteran is wrong in the domino theory, how can he show himself to be right on the threat of Iraqi Islamic extremism hitting our hometowns? At the very least, communism was huge; it was spread over continents, had governments and armies, and real political leaders our presidents at least talked to. But al-Qaeda has none of this... and the Iraqis fighting our guys have even less than AQ, and yet McCain insists they’ll come here?
And then he appealed to kneejerk patriotism by mentioning the fact that American troops were never defeated on Vietnam’s battlefields. Kudos to Ron Paul for his historically accurate reply, because as Paul said, the Vietnamese officer’s reply was that America’s track record there was irrelevant, just as it is in Iraq today. Like Iraq, Vietnam was the scene of a guerrilla resistance, 4th generation war played out against a conventional foe (the US military). The NVA and Vietcong had as their goal the unification of Vietnam, but in tactical terms vs. our forces, they didn’t want (and never needed) to beat us on the field. They just had to hold themselves in the fight and not get wiped out. The same holds for Iraq today. Mahdi Army, Islamic Army of Iraq, AQI, Baath remnants… none of these can hold their own vs. the US military in an open conventional battle. But why should they try that? Their goal isn’t the acquisition of territory; it’s the eventual departure of our soldiers. Like in Vietnam we’re at a disadvantage because we’re on THEIR turf.
It’s too bad Ron Paul got very little time to rebut McCain, but even with his few words he put John in his place. Had Ron Paul been allowed at least 60 more seconds he would have embarrassed McCain with a history lesson.
Alas, this is why people like McCain have a following despite their ignorance. People don’t know any better and are easily moved by emotional appears towards one’s patriotism. I only wonder why John, having spent a few days in Iraq, didn’t mention that we’re bribing Iraqis as part of our efforts to pacify the country, and I still remember his earlier trip, when he said Iraq was safe (next time maybe he should forego a heavily armed US military escort!).
< Message edited by RichLP -- 11/29/2007 12:49:43 PM >
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"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 2:10:46 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1905
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brooklynsblessed1
John Mccain won that debate last night, a true war hero that spilled his blood for all of us finally exposed this dangerous little David Duke endorsed candidate for what he would be.
DANGEROUS!
I'm sure though his Nigerian internet spammers will be overloading the blogs w/ what a hero this fraud really is. 
brooklyn,
Your continued slander of Paul is getting tiresome.
There is no substantive proof of Nigerian internet spammers.
I'm not sure that Paul cares he is endorsed by Duke or not. One thing he does care about is shrinking the federal gov't and allowing us to live our lives constitutionally, not according to what the courts say we should live our lives.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 2:24:47 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10887
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He SHOULD care that he is endorsed by bigots. I'm sure I'm not the only one looking at him who cares either.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 2:48:04 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1633
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Brooklyn:
John McCain did not win the debate. I respect him for having served our country, but as I already wrote, he erred on the facts and reached an embarrassingly low level by using that flawed Hitler analogy.
Ccoppenberger:
You can always be counted for rational, fact-based posts.
Ben:
I know you've been focusing on this issue a lot, but from what I've seen, you are yet to provide proof Paul shares the beliefs of those overt bigots. And as for not being the only one who cares: no one else has provided proof Paul is a bigot either.
To all: if you think McCain's comments to Paul were right, please provide an argument for such a position. I've already made my stance very clear.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 3:09:30 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10887
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quote:
Ben:
I know you've been focusing on this issue a lot, but from what I've seen, you are yet to provide proof Paul shares the beliefs of those overt bigots. And as for not being the only one who cares: no one else has provided proof Paul is a bigot either. Again, I never said Paul was a racist. I have said and provided proof that racist are supporting him however, and that Dr. Paul has yet to come out in his own words and denounce that support. THAT is what bothers me.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 3:21:48 PM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Again, I never said Paul was a racist. I have said and provided proof that racist are supporting him however, and that Dr. Paul has yet to come out in his own words and denounce that support. THAT is what bothers me.
It speaks volumes that you focus so much on a smear attempt, Ben. It's one thing to have genuine disagreements with a candidate if the issues are the focus of the disagreement.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 3:27:20 PM
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stamper_ben
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I have a genuine disagreement with the candidate over this matter. I may be alone in this (I doubt), but that is my stand. And stand with righteousness I can and will on it! How others deal with it is between them and whatever it is that drives their being.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 3:30:08 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1633
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
I have a genuine disagreement with the candidate over this matter. I may be alone in this (I doubt), but that is my stand. And stand with righteousness I can and will on it! How others deal with it is between them and whatever it is that drives their being.
I only wonder why you focus on it so much as it came up as an unmistakable ad hominem attack on Paul, Ben, not because I question your rights.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 3:35:00 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10887
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
I have a genuine disagreement with the candidate over this matter. I may be alone in this (I doubt), but that is my stand. And stand with righteousness I can and will on it! How others deal with it is between them and whatever it is that drives their being.
I only wonder why you focus on it so much as it came up as an unmistakable ad hominem attack on Paul, Ben, not because I question your rights.
Just picking at people's consciences... And perhaps one or more of his supporters will contact the good Doctor and ask the same things. (Along with the question why he won't appear on shows like Beck's where he would have plenty of time to expound on his views...)
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 3:44:57 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1633
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
I have a genuine disagreement with the candidate over this matter. I may be alone in this (I doubt), but that is my stand. And stand with righteousness I can and will on it! How others deal with it is between them and whatever it is that drives their being.
I only wonder why you focus on it so much as it came up as an unmistakable ad hominem attack on Paul, Ben, not because I question your rights.
Just picking at people's consciences... And perhaps one or more of his supporters will contact the good Doctor and ask the same things. (Along with the question why he won't appear on shows like Beck's where he would have plenty of time to expound on his views...)
But this emerged from a smear, not a proven fact.
As for Beck: he openly smeared Paul. Why should Paul grace Beck with his presence all the more since Beck may well try to entrap Paul? Beck is not fan of Paul.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 3:52:35 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10887
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IT IS A FACT THAT STORMFRONT ENDORSES RON PAUL! Go back in these posts and you'll find the evidence.
As for Beck, he's said the same things about Paul that I have, that Ron Paul has some good ideas and it would be a good thing for Paul to get them out into the conservative airwaves. And to more fully explain things that aren't that clear. Is Ron Paul afraid of a talkshow host or is he afraid of the questions? 
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 4:14:03 PM
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thomas2008
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I remember speaking to people like Bill O'Reilly and Shaun Hannity about his conservative positions, mostly on the war in Iraq, and he got slammed. Like I have said, how many organizations have endorsed other Republican candidates that are questionable.
No one seems to slam Rudy on his position on abortion and gay marriage. If it were possible, I would be in much support of a Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul ticket.
Regardless of what so-called "facts" you have against Ron Paul, that's not going to tarnish my support for him.
Like I've said, point out one single candidate on the Republican side that you think would meet Dr. Paul's level.
_____________________________
Warmest Regards,
Thomas Winters
quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force." - George Washington
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 4:31:34 PM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
Beck said supporters of Paul are a terrorist threat. I wouldn't want to go to his show if I were in Ron's shoes. Why? Has he no defense? And he wants to be president? What would he do on a worldwide forum against antagonists?
quote:
Like I've said, point out one single candidate on the Republican side that you think would meet Dr. Paul's level. My first choice, Duncan Hunter.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 7:28:59 PM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
Beck said supporters of Paul are a terrorist threat. I wouldn't want to go to his show if I were in Ron's shoes. Why? Has he no defense? And he wants to be president? What would he do on a worldwide forum against antagonists?
Ron Paul's performances in the debates show a man who is very able to defend his positions. As has been stated here previously, Paul may be simply choosing to ignore this ridicuolous smear attempt to avoid giving his would-be smearers any credibility or attention they would not deserve from any sane person.
As for what he would do on a worldwide forum against antagonists, this is irrelevant. Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush... none of them had to go on an international forum with antagonists. And don't mention the UN; US presidents are generally well-received there.
He wants to be president and he's got a record clearly showing an unwavering adherence to the American Constitution. That speaks volumes, and his refusal to address ad hominem tactics is no reflection of any flaw or capacity on his part... even though YOU may think it is.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/29/2007 7:37:02 PM
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thomas2008
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People can say what they want about Dr. Paul, but at least he isn't a flip flopper like Hillary.
_____________________________
Warmest Regards,
Thomas Winters
quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force." - George Washington
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/30/2007 1:28:23 PM
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stamper_ben
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"Forum" was a wrong choice of word for what I meant. As President, on the world wide level this person will have to face not only enemies of this country, but allies also who will be antagonistic.
If Ron Paul can't even face an interview on one widely listened to conservative radio or TV program because he's afraid of that guilt by association tag that his supporters allegedly got from Beck, if he can't articulate his views adaquately with a host who shares many of the same libertarian views as he does, what hope is there that he can do it on the level of world wide politics?
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/30/2007 1:38:38 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1633
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
If Ron Paul can't even face an interview on one widely listened to conservative radio or TV program because he's afraid of that guilt by association tag that his supporters allegedly got from Beck, if he can't articulate his views adaquately with a host who shares many of the same libertarian views as he does, what hope is there that he can do it on the level of world wide politics?
The argument you make assumes that one who won't talk about a certain issue, regardless of the motive, is inherently questionable if not unqualified to deal with "world wide politics."
Reagan, for example, didn't discuss each and every controversial issue on a radio or TV program, yet that didn't stop him from being President. Say what you will about Reagan's record, but even though he didn't always fulfill the criteria which you incessantly demand Ron Paul fulfill, Reagan performed. Not always admirably, perhaps, but he performed.
And as I said: Ron Paul has an impressive, admirable record of upholding the American Constitution. I thought that piece of paper meant something nowadays, but judging from the sitting chief executive's actions (and the views of those who support him), I speculate maybe that's not the case anymore. And this isn't aimed at you, but you indubitably know what I mean.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/30/2007 1:43:04 PM
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ctipton
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Here is where I see the flaw in your logic.
The premise is that Ron Paul has not agreed to participate on Beck's show.
From that you derive that Ron Paul is unable to do so. I see a flaw of logic here. A campaign is about one thing only... getting the maximum number of votes. And the successful candidate will focus only on what will accomplish this goal the best. Some attributes of successful campaigns include staying focused on the stump speech and trying to keep the initiative of the discussions. Responding to Beck will get him off focus and will forfeit any initiative.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/30/2007 1:46:43 PM
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TheosCentric
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Has Beck even offered for Paul to appear on his show?
Everytime I see the news shows, I see everybody but Paul being featured. He did a great performance on the Tonight Show, however.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/30/2007 1:56:29 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10887
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As I recall, RR stumped his message to the American people and took advantage of the opportunities to get that message out as widely as possible. He even publicly stated in his own words his denouncement of the KKK's endorsement of him during the campaign AS SOON AS IT CAME TO HIS ATTENTION. This is why Reagan was well qualified to deal with the "evil empire" of the USSR in face to face negotiations.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/30/2007 2:04:51 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10887
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
Has Beck even offered for Paul to appear on his show?
Everytime I see the news shows, I see everybody but Paul being featured. He did a great performance on the Tonight Show, however.
Have you listened to Beck in the recent past? If so, you'd have heard him asking. More than once. Even pleading with Paul's supporters to contact Paul and ask him to respond.
Charlie, the evidence is that after Mike Huckabee went on Beck's show is when his number really jumped. Like him or not, Glenn Beck is a force on the airwaves, the number three listened to show in the country. Going on the show could translate into two things - Going after the maximum number of votes and getting the message out. If that simple act of going on a talk show for an hour throws him "off focus", then I would have serious questions on how he would perform under the real fire of the office.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Ron Paul: GOP's Last Chance? - 11/30/2007 2:07:33 PM
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Milliecat
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Ron Paul may be able to express himself well and he may have good intentions but he will not be able to do a third of the things he has promised. He has to deal with a Democrat Congress and Senate. His "lecturing" to them is not going to get him what he wants, except maybe where the war is concerned. His plan for the war is exactly why I will never vote for him The second reason is the Ron Paul fans. They drive me nuts. It's as if the guy walks on water. And I do believe that he should face those who disagree with him. It would show strength of character. If he doesn't, it appears as if he is hiding.
I am undecided but I would vote for Ron Paul if not for his feelings about the war. I like a lot of things he says and he is very pro-life. I think a lot of the crazies are for him because they are probably being harrassed for their activities and they believe that in following the Constitution, Ron Paul will protect their rights. But for me, he wouldn't need to denounce any of these people. Rudy or McCain wouldn't or Hillary. I just disagree with him on the war so I'll end up voting for someone else.
< Message edited by Milliecat -- 11/30/2007 3:37:56 PM >
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