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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/19/2008 11:29:05 PM
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Timcp
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"I remember in 80's when the Church came down hard on Christian Rock and namely STRYPER."
That's probably because they tour with rock bands who aren't Christian and take part in the secular rock way of life.
In 1989 Stryper toured with secular rockers White Lion. Drummer, Greg D Angelo, says, "We threw a party . . . About two in the morning Robert Sweet was whacked! Drunk! He was being dragged around on his tiptoes by two women holding him up!" (RIP, June, 1989, p.41)
They also toured with WASP whose lyrics "Sleeping in the Fire" read:
"Taste the LOVE,
THE LUCIFER'S MAGIC
That makes you numb
You feel what it does and you're drunk on LOVE
YOU'RE SLEEPING IN THE FIRE!"
On the back of WASP's album reads, "The gods you worship are steel, AT THE ALTAR OF ROCK AND ROLL YOU KNEEL." The concert tour was called "HEAVEN AND HELL"!
But yet, what does 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 say?
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
So it is the same thing with what you say here: "I know fighters who without MMA probably wouldn't have given Christ a second look."
According to 2 Corinthians, they should also take a second look at the way these secular fighters live their lives and the way these secular organizations portray themselves, and be "separate" from it.
You mentioned that "These guys hang out together before and after they're matches. Like I said I'm a lover(of JESUS) not a fighter!"
Look what these fighters had to say about each other, would Jesus Christ do this?
"Sean Sherk, you're dead," Penn shouted at the ex-champion who was doing commentary on the UFC's pay-per-view broadcast. http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/mma_experts
Liaudin had boldly predicted he'd win the bout, which angered the Mark DellaGrotte-trained welterweight.
EDITED TOS 5 Davis said. "Literally, I said I was going to punch a hole in his face."
As it turned out, he nearly did. http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/mma_experts
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
Come on folks let keep scripture in context. Too easy to quote scriptures without the Who, what , where , and why behind them. Doing so, can lead to confusion. I personally dont get into the ring..to fight that is, but I have served as a ring announcer for Extreme fights. Here in the area where I live Fort Campbell, KY there is a MMA gym owned by a a fighter who is also a preacher. The man has hel several titles and has faught in Pride fight cards. The "gym" opens on Sunday afternoons for a weekly church service. It was this fighter who God used to show me that we cannot box up God and use the bible to out of context to prove our point. I remember in 80's when the Church came down hard on Christian Rock and namely STRYPER. There were bible verses flying back then too. Now look at the Christian Rock industry. All of a sudden it's become accepted to reach a certain generation. I know fighters who without MMA probably wouldn't have given Christ a second look. And unlike boxing, Mixed Martial Arts is by far more entertaining and the fighters can be in a room without killing eachother before they step into the ring. These guys hang out together before and after they're matches. Like I said I'm a lover(of JESUS) not a fighter!
Peace!
< Message edited by Kath -- 1/20/2008 11:17:22 PM >
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/19/2008 11:46:24 PM
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Timcp
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"My NIV Bible by the way quotes Proverbs 3:30 as saying do not accuse a man - it actually says nothing about fighting..."
Your NIV also removes the blood of Jesus Christ. COLOSSIANS 1:14: The KJB reads, "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:" The NIV reads, "In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." The NIV rips out the words "through his blood"
Redemption is only "through his blood". Hebrews 9:22, reads, "22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."
That old song says, "What can wash away my sins, nothing but the blood of Jesus"
quote:
ORIGINAL: gracesosweet
quote:
ORIGINAL: Reasoning
...but you have taken the OP so far away from its original discussion at this point that we might as well start talking about Jedi being witches.
Oh gracious, I'm reading through this thread because my husband and son are AVID UFC fans, and had I been taking a drink of water I would have spit it all over the screen! This is so funny!
My NIV Bible by the way quotes Proverbs 3:30 as saying do not accuse a man - it actually says nothing about fighting...
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/20/2008 12:02:53 AM
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Timcp
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The UFC is violence, even secular organizations who rate films use these words in various ways to describe it. Such as "graphic blood" "violence" and these are non-believers.
This doesn't even take into account the drunkenness, profanity, ring girls, pride, that usually go along with these events. Not to mention the UFC holds their events in Las Vegas, which is called "sin city".
You honestly think my "remark" is crazy? Sure there are tons of things that aren't "specifically" mentioned in the Bible. The UFC falls under violence which the Bible speaks against, like I said, even unbelievers give it a Violent rating.
Every time you tune into this stuff, you're giving them ratings, you're saying by viewing the content, that you don't object to what goes on at these places.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gracesosweet
What do you do in your free time? Is everything you do mentioned in the Bible? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but this remark is quite ludicrous. There are TONS of things that are not specifically mentioned in the Bible that are not sinful in and of themselves...
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/20/2008 1:33:24 AM
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Sammy_S
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Sure they can go all out and harm their bodies,after all,their bodies is there's right?
Oh it isnt..
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/20/2008 2:32:59 AM
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krazyxsinner
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Timcp
The UFC is violence, even secular organizations who rate films use these words in various ways to describe it. Such as "graphic blood" "violence" and these are non-believers.
This doesn't even take into account the drunkenness, profanity, ring girls, pride, that usually go along with these events. Not to mention the UFC holds their events in Las Vegas, which is called "sin city".
You honestly think my "remark" is crazy? Sure there are tons of things that aren't "specifically" mentioned in the Bible. The UFC falls under violence which the Bible speaks against, like I said, even unbelievers give it a Violent rating.
Every time you tune into this stuff, you're giving them ratings, you're saying by viewing the content, that you don't object to what goes on at these places.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gracesosweet
What do you do in your free time? Is everything you do mentioned in the Bible? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but this remark is quite ludicrous. There are TONS of things that are not specifically mentioned in the Bible that are not sinful in and of themselves...
Sorry timmy your presuppositions have been shattered. Sports Illustrated did and article on UFC and MMA last may and debunked these myths. The UFC was bad in its infancy but new ownership several years ago reformed it.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/20/2008 4:26:05 PM
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babbred
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
IFL, UFC, USKA, USBA... it all falls under the same umbrella. Namely, the umbrella of two guys beating the snot out of each other and getting paid to do it. Do I think there is something evil about it? Nope.
I agree. However, I would never personally watch it. I work in a high school, so if I want to watch two guys beat the snot out of each other I'll walk outside. Paying them money and putting it on cable doesn't make it any more civilized. You might as well just go ahead and put the lions in there, too.
quote:
Do these guys who fight have a reason to fight? You betcha. A lot of them have kids, wives (not necessarily in that order or combination), property, all that jazz. These guys fight so they can afford to live.
I personally think there are better ways of making a living but hey, if getting the crud beaten out of you floats your boat, go for it.
quote:
If you want to talk about how they spend that money, that is different. Can a person be a Christian and be a professional wrestler? Yes. Can a guy be a Christian and be in the government? Yes. Can a guy be a Christian, while keeping in tremendous shape and making a lot of money to win fights? Yes. As long as the Bible doesn't say don't, you should be clear. Boxing isn't outlawed in the Bible, neither is Mixed Martial Arts or professional wrestling. The point is that the actual action of being involved in these activities doesn't affect your spirit in the same way that, say, being a prostitute would. That is why one is prohibited, and the other is left alone.
Adam
(Author's note: IFL= Independent Fight League, UFC=Ultimate Fighting Championship, USKA= United States Kickboxing Association, USBA= US Boxing Association)
I don't see anything wrong with Christians being involved with professional sports. Ever heard of Tony Dungee? He's the coach of the Indianapolis Colts and a fine Christian. So is Emmitt Smith, the former Cowboy, not to mention the legendary Tom Landry. As I said, for me it's just a personal objection. At least sports like football have rules and you get punished for fighting. Watching two guys get in a ring just for the sake of beating the crud out of each other simply does not appeal to me. (And yes, I include boxing in that. I have always hated boxing for the same reason, although again, even they have strict rules.)
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/20/2008 9:20:20 PM
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Timcp
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These aren't presuppositions, look at the back cover of any recent UFC DVD under current ownership and read the rating label. Even under the current ownership, these DVD's are rated for their pervasive violence and blood. These ratings are given by unbelievers.
Just because it is regulated with more rules, doesn't remove the violence.
Under the current ownership, they still hold events in "sin city" Las Vegas. You will still see people at these events who are drunk. They still have ring girls prancing around half naked. They still have steroid abuse and the sinfulness of the fighters lives themselves is reason enough not to watch it.
< Message edited by Kath -- 1/20/2008 11:13:13 PM >
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/20/2008 11:41:00 PM
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krazyxsinner
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quote:
Las Vegas and drunk people
Oh no Las Vegas. I guess the Christians that live there are not real Christians. I better move out of my neighborhood. Some people around here get drunk.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/21/2008 8:18:28 PM
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Timcp
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You probably should, who would want to pay taxes to a state with a city coined "sin city"? Not only that but it's Las Vegas, it is like Sodom and Gamorrha.
It is against the law to be drunk in public, if your neighborhood has a lot of people who do this then you should call your local law enforcement.
Even non believing city officials who uphold these laws, would agree that public intoxication is not good for society.
If it were a huge problem, I would pray to God that he allow me to move out of the area.
As for the UFC, these links show what fighters say to each other, could you see Jesus Christ saying these things? Just because it is sanctioned doesn't make it right. Had this been in public it would be considered assault/threatening. It just further glorifies the violence and shows their violent attitude that they go into the ring, cage, octagon etc. with.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/mma_experts
< Message edited by Timcp -- 1/21/2008 9:11:17 PM >
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/25/2008 1:05:34 PM
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DaveW
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UFC not Christian, not Biblical.
Why is this even a question? I don't get it. No form of entertainment we have today is biblical or inherently christian.
I know, I know, there are those exceptions of baseball and tennis:
In the BIG INNING God created ....
Joseph served in Pharoh's courts....
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/25/2008 6:04:04 PM
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A_crucified_man
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Evander "The Real Deal" Holyfield is a Spirit-filled, Christian so I find it hard to believe the any form of professional sport, including boxing, MMA, UFC, etc. could be construed as wrong, evil, or sinful.
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John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease."
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/26/2008 3:35:23 PM
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arinte
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I know I am late to the party here, but 1st thing 1st Ultimate Fun Championship LOL!!!
But here is a verse beside the other one that was listed
Proverbs 6:16-19 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
I think shed "innocent blood" applies (they probably wouldn't always count as innocent), wicked imaginations (how can I put this guy in a choke hold and make him either tap out or be knocked out), swift to mischief, yes that guy is going to really like me after I punch his lights out.
And then there are these:
Isaiah 59:6-8 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
6Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
7Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.
8The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
Ezekiel 18:9-13 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
9Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
10If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,
11And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,
12Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,
13Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
Last one, I think there is more but you get my drift
Romans 3:14-16 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16Destruction and misery are in their ways:
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 1/26/2008 3:37:59 PM
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arinte
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quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
Evander "The Real Deal" Holyfield is a Spirit-filled, Christian so I find it hard to believe the any form of professional sport, including boxing, MMA, UFC, etc. could be construed as wrong, evil, or sinful.
Like other Chrisitians he has his problems. Because he says he is Chrisitian and he does one thing does not make that one thing right. For example Evander has a some kids from different sets of women, does that mean that is ok?
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 2/1/2008 1:33:51 AM
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Knolt
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in the UFC, you have two people going up against each other with pretty much equal abilities. they train very hard to do what they do. my hat goes off to them. how many people train as hard as they do to face someone like that in a cage? I DO NOT think it's wrong to be a cage fighter. Getting to the Bible now, God hates it when people oppress the weak and defenseless. That's NOT what goes on in the octagon. In the octagon it's a sport and it's a fair fight between two combatants who trained very hard.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 2/5/2008 9:49:21 AM
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rit.05
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Don't try to discount what is in the heart of a man with man made words and definitions. The truth rests in your heart and with what the Spirit has placed there.
If you are convinced that the UFC and such activities are against Scripture, then you need to look again at the NFL, rugby, soccer, wrestling, martial arts, etc...
If you believe that one sport is acceptable for entertainment, then who is REALLY drawing the line...man or God?
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 2/6/2008 11:02:45 PM
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mom_of_a_soldier
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Its a physical sport. No worse than football, hockey, rodeos, ect....
They are not mad at each other. Not saying I haven't seen it happen occasionaly, but more often than not, after the match, they go to each other, shake hands and /or hug, & make sure they are alright.
Do you watch football, hockey,...? I don't recall reading that in the bible. Is it wrong to watch those?
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 2/10/2008 12:12:09 AM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mom_of_a_soldier
Its a physical sport. No worse than football, hockey, rodeos, ect....
They are not mad at each other. Not saying I haven't seen it happen occasionaly, but more often than not, after the match, they go to each other, shake hands and /or hug, & make sure they are alright.
That is correct. The competitors know that after the match, there's no more need for competition. I know of some football players, basketball players, and baseball players that don't understand that concept.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 2/10/2008 5:42:09 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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If we are to directly adress the title of this thread, it's true... the UFC is not biblical. But neither is baseball, football, pinball, ping pong, board games or just about anything else people can do platonically. It is "areligious"... meaning it has no religious affiliation.
Is boxing a sinful form of exercise? Is getting a good cardio workout in kickboxing evil? Are you endangering your soul when you wrestle with your buddy? By the way... the answer to all three is no. If this is true, putting all three together shouldn't either. It would look like this in a math problem... 1+1+1= -3. That doesn't work. It's incredibly strenuous physically, and most of the athletes are in phenominal physical shape... to use a verse that is actually applicable to this...quote:
1Ti 4:8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come. Note: bodily exercise profits a little... Godliness is a much better form of exercise, but physical strain does profit some.
Adam
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 4/19/2008 12:11:46 PM
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Jeffo
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Does anyone know approx. how many Christians there may be in the sport and who some of them are? I realize it's difficult to know if someone really is a Christian. Thanks.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 4/20/2008 9:09:51 PM
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Heavendweller
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Reasoning
Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah, yes you are right, UFC is evil and will lead to your eventual fall from grace and straight into the sulfur pits of hell.
Reasoning,
Are you an atheist? Just curious since I noticed you refer to Nietzsche at the bottom of your posting.
I know, has nothing to do with wrestling. I'm not sure where I stand on the issue. Haven't ever given it too much thought.
HD
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 4/23/2008 8:40:41 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: mom_of_a_soldier
Its a physical sport. No worse than football, hockey, rodeos, ect....
They are not mad at each other. Not saying I haven't seen it happen occasionaly, but more often than not, after the match, they go to each other, shake hands and /or hug, & make sure they are alright.
That is correct. The competitors know that after the match, there's no more need for competition. I know of some football players, basketball players, and baseball players that don't understand that concept.
Paul also used numerous athletic metaphors, including ones about fighting and wrestling, without ever hinting at condemning such sports.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 4/23/2008 9:07:17 AM
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abraxas
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I won't comment on whether they're "Biblical" or "Christian", but I think boxing and cage fighting are ... I don't know, bizarre. Not thinking so much about the fighters themselves, but the spectators. Watching a couple of guys punch each other in the face--it's a strange side of us humans. And when one guy really gets a solid shot to the other guy's face, that's when the cheering is loudest.
Yeah! Punch that guy in the face! Punch him again! Ooh that was a good one! (  haha, sorry--if you're a fan, that's your thing and it's all good. No moral judgements here but I think it's a little strange. My best friend and his dad used to like to watch boxing and these thoughts here are old thoughts, coming from way back to those days on the sofa. It's not for me.)
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 4/23/2008 4:38:51 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
IFL, UFC, USKA, USBA... it all falls under the same umbrella. Namely, the umbrella of two guys beating the snot out of each other and getting paid to do it. Do I think there is something evil about it? Nope. Do these guys who fight have a reason to fight? You betcha. A lot of them have kids, wives (not necessarily in that order or combination), property, all that jazz. These guys fight so they can afford to live. If you want to talk about how they spend that money, that is different. Can a person be a Christian and be a professional wrestler? Yes. Can a guy be a Christian and be in the government? Yes. Can a guy be a Christian, while keeping in tremendous shape and making a lot of money to win fights? Yes. As long as the Bible doesn't say don't, you should be clear. Boxing isn't outlawed in the Bible, neither is Mixed Martial Arts or professional wrestling. The point is that the actual action of being involved in these activities doesn't affect your spirit in the same way that, say, being a prostitute would. That is why one is prohibited, and the other is left alone.
Adam
(Author's note: IFL= Independent Fight League, UFC=Ultimate Fighting Championship, USKA= United States Kickboxing Association, USBA= US Boxing Association)
Great post.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 4/23/2008 10:46:00 PM
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Hiker02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeffo
Does anyone know approx. how many Christians there may be in the sport and who some of them are? I realize it's difficult to know if someone really is a Christian. Thanks.
Matt Hughes proclaims to be a Christian.
Here is his website.
Click Here.
Check out his biography.
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RE: UFC not Christian, not Biblical. - 4/23/2008 11:57:49 PM
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JordanW
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It's just entertainment, nothing wrong with it.
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