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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/6/2008 7:11:07 PM
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john_mark
Posts: 487
Joined: 7/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
God himself cannot commit evil. But he allows Satan to entice people to sin to bring people to God for redemption. No sin, no mercy, no sin, no grace. And that's why God bound all men over to disobedience so he can have mercy on us. If God allowed man to remain perfect, then we would never turn to Him for eternal life which only He can give us. So absolutely everything in the world, good or evil is in God's plan. And that's precisely why he hardens hearts as he explained in Exodus with Pharoah.
but does the original idea for evil start with God or the individual. did pharoah decide that he was going to rebel against God by not letting the people go, or did God first decide to harden pharoah's heart. if the premise that God is the first cause of sin is true than God has to be the origin of the idea.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/6/2008 7:22:51 PM
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john_mark
Posts: 487
Joined: 7/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
To anybody concerned.
The main point in the analogy with the policeman, the brute, and the helpless girl, was not supposed to be an analogy that focused on anybody pulling strings. That was not the point or focus.
It did not even mention that anyone pulled any strings.
It was supposed to be an analogy with less of a focus on the Calvinistic thought pattern, and more on the free-will and Arminian thought pattern.
i dont like hypotheical's for this reason.
may engage you in a more real example?
if the premise that God is the first the cause of evil is true, then it would seem logical that an evil act must originate with God(i dont intend to debate whether or not that makes God the author of sin). for example adam sinned in the garden. if God was the first cause of that sin then God willed/ordained adam's sin . if adam decided to sin and then God allowed it, God would be reacting to adam's intent. while adam's sin could only happen if God allowed it, it would still be a reaction of God toward adam's intent. to me there is a critical difference between the two positions. do you think there is a differnce between the two positions?
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/6/2008 8:11:50 PM
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Odeliya
Posts: 1908
Joined: 8/10/2005
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Dear FG,
After reviewing posts, safely landing and unbuckling - i can say that i fully and wholly agree with your view on rom1. It clearly state "why" nobody has an excuse.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/6/2008 8:17:29 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 6747
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
To anybody concerned.
The main point in the analogy with the policeman, the brute, and the helpless girl, was not supposed to be an analogy that focused on anybody pulling strings. That was not the point or focus.
It did not even mention that anyone pulled any strings.
It was supposed to be an analogy with less of a focus on the Calvinistic thought pattern, and more on the free-will and Arminian thought pattern.
Your analogy was excellent for demonstrating free will of the brute.
quote:
One of the main points in that analogy is that even free-willers and Arminians cannot distance God from evil.
Since FWers haven't even tried to do that, what are you arguing against?
quote:
They cannot do it even in their own system.
FW doesn't even try to. What's your point?
quote:
Free-willers and Arminians are trying to remove God away from evil as far as they can because they think such an effort on their part will protect Him and His character. The problem is even their system does not remove God away from evil.
Once again, what is your point? FW doesn even try to. FW recognizes the sovereignty of God in using man's evil against others for His own purposes. That does NOT make God the first cause of evil, as calvinism claims.
quote:
I say He does not need the protection of His creatures even if they want to try and protect Him in their minds.
I agree! How 'bout that! I wonder who you are arguing against.
quote:
He not only can.....but He did drown thousands upon thousands of little babies in a massive flood by causing massive amounts of water to fall from the sky and drown them.
So what? Or, what is your point? Every human being dies. Jesus even noted that the righteous die right along side the unrighteous. Who are you arguing against?
quote:
The analogy that I made shows that even with a free-will and Arminian thought pattern......they still have to come up with a way to explain why God just sits there when we know that millions upon millions of horrible and evil acts take place on this planet.
Been done. Again, who are you arguing against?
quote:
Free-willers and Arminians many times will gladly admit that God restrains evil and has done so many times. So, it is obvious even with their thought pattern that He is able to restrain evil and has done so.
That's right. Now, try to prove that God is the "first cause" of evil.
quote:
Now they have to explain why He does not restrain evil when some brute is beating up and raping a little girl.
One would have to be omniscient in order to understand the vast scope of God's will. There are many possible reasons He would allow such torture. Fact is, man has been torturing man since the beginning. So, again, what is your point?
quote:
So a policeman knowing he was supposed to step in to help....but did not...is guilty of sin. His lack of action is evil on his part.
Again, I've noted that we cannot assign human systems of legality on Sovereign God, who has the whole picture and will in mind.
quote:
Where does God fit into the picture as one that sits idle while evil takes place?
I never have said that God sits idle. Who do you know who has said that? Or, who are you arguing against?
quote:
One of the free-will posters in here admitted to two points;
1: A policeman would be guilty if he stood by and did nothing while a little girl was raped and he had the power to stop it.
2: A policeman would be guilty if he caused a brute to rape a little girl.
So in either system the policeman is not removed from evil or guilt.
And I also noted that we cannot assign human systems of legality onto Sovereign God. Did you miss that?
quote:
The question is now.....how do you reconcile system number 1?
Simple. God is not a policeman, nor is the policeman omniscient or sovereign.
quote:
System number 1 would imply that God just sits around and does nothing while brutes rape little girls.......except of course when He steps in as when He feels like stepping in.
OK, I've given my explanations. Now, how do you explain the fact that God sits by and allows assaults? iow, do you agree with my explanation, or do you have one better?
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/6/2008 8:21:04 PM
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Odeliya
Posts: 1908
Joined: 8/10/2005
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quote:
My wife and all four of my children are believers. God did that....not me.
Amen. Glory be to God! Happy is the one who has his household believe in Jesus Christ!
quote:
Why dont you take a small glance at a small teaching called The Geneva Catechism written by John Calvin? The intent he had when he put this together was Being a form of instruction for children in the doctrine of ChristSounds terrible doesnt it!  neah.....it's tolerable.It;s prez election year, hon. Nothing matches the terriblness that media and those running fellows spit out :)))
Indeed ,It was a very interesting read.
Looks like believing Calvinism as well as Arminianism take a whole deal of faith from adherents of the particular theology. Just like faith in God :)
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/6/2008 8:38:10 PM
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rwe2156
Posts: 1752
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
You already blame God for sin, not me, KJB.
I don't think you read or understand my posts very
well and frankly it is quite annoying.
If you believe God decrees all things that happen (and you do)
then explain to me how God is not the orchestrator and perpetrator of evil.
quote:
In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.
This is about God controlling evil, not perpetrating it!
Do you really think God directed each and everything Satan did?
quote:
You know what....at one time God flooded the entire
earth and almost every creature it contained.
Yeah, he brought down Sodom and Gomorrah, too.
quote:
I bet there were many mothers trying to save their helpless cute little babies,
wondering what on earth did the little babies do to deserve such a horrible death.
Yes, God's wrath is horrible, isn't it, KJB.
I hope you do not equate God's wrath with God doing evil.
quote:
Does that clear up my POV on that?
Just answer my first question (and all my others which you ignore) and we'll see.
Peace. Sorry if I annoyed you.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/6/2008 9:12:44 PM
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rwe2156
Posts: 1752
Status: online
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FG
I think many people are gradually drawn to God this way -
in some cases it might take several years.
When you actually look at the reality of those who come
to Christ, it is usually NOT that they hear the gospel
and bingo - the effectual call of God was effectual!
One of the best ways to open a dialogue with an unbeliever is
to ask them if they believe there is a God - almost all will say yes.
On further questioning, many even believe there is an afterlife of
heaven and hell (even depraved man wants justice for evil).
Did you know most professing Christians (70% - read the latest Pew Poll)
believe there is more than one way to God!!
I agree Scripture tells us mankind DOES have a certain knowledge
of God and is without excuse. Every man born is created in
God's image, no? Every man born has an instinctual moral ability, no?
I've yet to have an election believer tell me why most people
are not drawn to repentance and saved on their first hearing the gospel
If all who will be saved has been predetermined and the
"effectual call of God" was so true, why wouldn't a man
respond the first time he heard the gospel?
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 1:49:42 AM
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kelman
Posts: 3764
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: john_mark
quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
Lets say you have a policeman that is fully armed.
The policeman is sitting in his squad car and notices a brute man beating and raping a small helpless girl.
The policeman is armed and as such is more powerful than the brute man.
The policeman could very easily step in to prevent (restrain) the evil brute from beating and raping the small girl.......but the policeman just sits and does nothing at all.
Would both of you claim that the policeman is guilty or innocent for his lack of action?
How do you see God in that way?
if i could comment, this example doesnt seem to fit the picture of God that you are presenting. If God is the first cause of sin then in this scenario God would compel the brute to rape the girl while He watched and did nothing.
your example presents a view that the brute decided on his own to do evil and God chose not restrain him. your example shows the evil originating in the brute.
No, you simply do not understand what primary and secondary causation means. KJB's example is precisely correct. How is God not ultimately "responsible" since He could have, in fact, stopped the evil from occurring? Man's "freewill" is not the answer since God has restrained evil in the past, we know that...so, why not now?
what i was getting at was that the plan to rape the girl had to be iniatiated by God for God to be the first cause. I understand that's what you meant; but, that is not the meaning of primary and secondary causality. First and foremost, man is always culpable for the sin he commits - God is not.
God foreordained the crucifixion of Christ by the hands of sinful men. He used sinful men to bring about His will. Did God put the "thought" into their heads?...no, need to. Sinful men will do that which they are inclined to do. Nor did God didn't need to put the jealous and evil thought into Satan's head to afflict Job; but, without God Satan could do nothing.
Since the crucifixion was foreknown by God, could these men have done differently? Men choose what they want to think and to do; in fact, they could do no other than choose. Yet, all his choices are determined by the eternal decrees of God.
I think The Westminster Confession of Faith (3:1 5:2, 4) does an excellent treatment of primary and secondary causation of sin. It points out that God is the sovereign first cause of all things, many of which occur through the free acts of man.
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 1:53:14 AM
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kelman
Posts: 3764
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Fine and well. The real question is this: how many did Christ die for? If your answer is "only for the elect/believer/etc", you, sir, are hyper. Calvin himself didn't hold to limited atonement.
Maybe we should call y'all "beza-ites" instead of calvinists, if you are offended by the "hyper" title. 
Hey, pile on the pejoratives, they're really funny...reminds me of a yapping and nipping chihuahua with about as much credibility...and even fewer teeth. These pale in comparison to heretic....you're losing your touch....LOL
Anyway, along with your theology being unscriptural and inaccurate so is your opinion concerning Calvin inaccurate. A little "wider" attention to and education on the subject would clearly show where you go wrong; but, then we don't have as much fun..do we? Here are two excerpts from: APURITANSMIND
"It is often stated—and with considerable propriety—that Calvin did not write an explicit treatment concerning the extent of the atonement, in fact did not deal with this precise issue in the terms to which Reformed theology has been accustomed. It must be owned, of course, that the question had received some attention before Calvin. Notably Gottschalk in the ninth century had given express support to definite atonement2 and the scholastics had discussed the topic and advanced a partial resolution in asserting that Christ’s death was “sufficient for all men and efficient for the elect.”3 Calvin alludes to and endorses this distinction but views it as insufficient for a proper analysis of 1 John 2:2.4 Nevertheless a full discussion of the scope of the atonement is not found in Calvin’s writings, and the assessment of his position in this area has been varied.
"Certain other Reformed theologians, contemporaries of Calvin or flourishing in the late sixteenth or the beginning of the seventeenth century, expressed a clear endorsement of definite atonement: e.g. Peter Martyr, H. Zanchius, T. Beza, J. Piscator, W. Ames, R. Abbot.5 As far as we know, they did not assert that they were conscious of differing with Calvin on this score, nor did Calvin take issue in writing with any of those who formulated the view during his life-time."
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 5:51:28 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1874
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
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Here's a quick question for the non-reformists:
Does our faith come from ourselves or from God? Think carefully and search scripture before answering.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 7:39:33 AM
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tdd1975
Posts: 326
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Dear FG,
After reviewing posts, safely landing and unbuckling - i can say that i fully and wholly agree with your view on rom1. It clearly state "why" nobody has an excuse.
Let us get this straight.
If we stop being bad (suppressing the truth) and start being good (not suppressing the truth).
Then we can merit salvation by the gospel.
Sorry, if this is true then the gospel isn't the power of God unto salvation but man is.
It is man's goodness that moves God to save him?
Nope, Jesus came to call sinners to repentance not those who believe themselves to be righteous already.
_____________________________
(John 8:11) Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 8:21:21 AM
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rwe2156
Posts: 1752
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
If we stop being bad (suppressing the truth) and start
being good (not suppressing the truth).
No, its not about "stopping being bad" or "starting being good" -
there are many, many moral pagans (some even have a better
life witness than professing Christians)
Yes, this would be simply works and saves no man.
But true repentance is the recognition of one's sin condition and at
the same time a turning away from sin and to God.
All we have done is look to God and away from self and sin.
And in that brief moment, if it is from the heart and true,
God grants us repentance and forgiveness and
gives us faith to be able to believe.
Man IS capable of doing it. God commands it, desires man to do it,
is happy when men does it, and is patient to wait for man to do it.
But wait ---- we are not saved yet!
Simply repenting and believing only will save us if it
meets God's requirements - and the only requirement
he has is that is comes from the heart, not
the mind only - mere mental assent saves no man.
Unitl God has done his work of rebirth our we are not a child of God.
quote:
Nope, Jesus came to call sinners to repentance not
those who believe themselves to be righteous already.
In the parable of the publican and the sinner in Luke 18 who
was the one who truly repented, TDD?;
Yes - the unrighteous SINNER was the one who truly repented,
not the one who gave an appearance of repentance.
It is about recognizing how bad we are and how good God is.
Thats all man can freely do - everything else is God's work.
See Isa 55:7 for proof the wicked can repent.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 9:11:24 AM
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KingJamesBond
Posts: 1365
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
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FreeGrace,
quote:
3. When Peter gave the gospel, he could have rejected the message as foolishness, as many did per 1 Cor 1:18 "for the word of the cross is to those who are perishing foolishness, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
Bottom line: when God makes truth evident, a choice is faced. To either believe it, or to reject/suppress it. That is free will.
KJB, free will has nothing to do with changing your skin color, moving mountains, or any other silly thing you come up with. It has to do with believing or rejecting truth as God reveals it.
The Gentile man that you keep talking about suppressed the truth in unrighteousness.
What that means is even that God is evident to him by what he can see in nature (like the wrath of God that was revealed in Romans 1).......he was still a sinner.
That means even though he has an understanding of right and wrong......and how God may deal with such things......he was still a sinner.
Here is Romans 1;
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.........
Its not saying they did not know God. It is saying the wrath of God is revealed.
The text claims;
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
What may be known is plain to them. It is saying people have this certain knowledge about God as He exercises His wrath because of unrighteousness......and yet they still just keep sinning.
That means they know God hates sin and does not approve of sin, and yet they keep sinning.
All men have a natural revelation......but they suppress the truth and it is clearly shown they suppress the truth by seeing their wickedness.
This even applies to the Gentile soldier you keep posting about unless anybody on this forum wants to suggest he was not a sinner? All sin is wickedness. Even little sin.
Romans 3 concluded this;
What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.
That applies to any and all Gentile soldiers too. They are not exempt.
People are under the dominion of sin even though they know God hates it and will deal with it.
They suppress the truth by their own wickedness.
As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
In all of this, something must have taken place to cause a sinner such as a Gentile soldier to turn to Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his sins.
All those ordained to eternal life believed.
That is not just another option.....it is the truth.
KJB
_____________________________
For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 10:49:26 AM
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cih92
Posts: 95
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
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If God has determined everything that you do in such a way that you cannot do otherwise, how can you be responsible for the things you do?
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 11:34:08 AM
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tdd1975
Posts: 326
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
No, its not about "stopping being bad" or "starting being good" -
there are many, many moral pagans (some even have a better
life witness than professing Christians)
Yes, this would be simply works and saves no man.
But true repentance is the recognition of one's sin condition and at
the same time a turning away from sin and to God.
All we have done is look to God and away from self and sin.
And in that brief moment, if it is from the heart and true,
God grants us repentance and forgiveness and
gives us faith to be able to believe.
Man IS capable of doing it. God commands it, desires man to do it,
is happy when men does it, and is patient to wait for man to do it.
But wait ---- we are not saved yet!
Simply repenting and believing only will save us if it
meets God's requirements - and the only requirement
he has is that is comes from the heart, not
the mind only - mere mental assent saves no man.
Unitl God has done his work of rebirth our we are not a child of God.
You have said that Calvinism boxes God in.
While I admit that I don't fully understand the tension between God's sov. and human responsibility.
God's ways are far above my ways for my feeble mind to comprehend.
Freewill doctrine puts God in a box of saving only good people.
Now I know you don't agree with what I just said but hear me out.
Freegrace has stated over and over that God gives further light to those who do not suppress the truth.
Del has said that she is now in full agreement with this. Are you?
If you hold to this you can slice it anyway you want to only those who merit further revelation because of the goodness of their heart will be saved.
It can be solved by answering three yes or no questions.
Is suppressing the truth an evil thing?
Is not suppressing the truth a good thing?
Have you ever suppressed the truth?
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against {a} all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the {b} truth in unrighteousness;
The opposite of holding the truth in unrighteousness is godliness.
If we become godly then God will reveal the gospel to us?
Don't you see the problem with this brother?
_____________________________
(John 8:11) Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 5:32:57 PM
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SureHope
Posts: 1524
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
SureHope,
When FreeGrace makes statements like;
quote:
Yet, you do not give any for support? Romans 1 does not say that all men suppress the truth. That is reformed presupposition only.
quote:
Show the wording what claims that all men suppress the truth.
I would say dont worry about it at all. 
KJB,
I appreciate the encouragement very much. I have been eager to respond, but have not had much time recently (this time of year is very busy for me). I have a reply in my mind, but have not had the time to write it out.
quote:
You are already right on track and . . . Romans 1 and 2 is supposed to lead the reader into a specific thought pattern.
I like what you wrote here, "Romans 1 and 2 is supposed to lead the reader into a specific thought pattern." Yes, and it is a very logical, point by point argument that Paul lays out to show man's inability to produce a righteousness that God accepts. The only righteousness that He accepts is the righteousness that is by faith. And why is that? Romans 1 and 2 tell us, starting with Rom 1:18 – “for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.” All Gentiles are under the wrath of God just as all Jews (chapter 2).
I appreciate your insights; they encourage me in the faith.
Blessings to you,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 5:58:21 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 6747
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
FG
I think many people are gradually drawn to God this way - in some cases it might take several years.
When you actually look at the reality of those who come to Christ, it is usually NOT that they hear the gospel and bingo - the effectual call of God was effectual!
One of the best ways to open a dialogue with an unbeliever is to ask them if they believe there is a God - almost all will say yes.
On further questioning, many even believe there is an afterlife of heaven and hell (even depraved man wants justice for evil).
Did you know most professing Christians (70% - read the latest Pew Poll)
believe there is more than one way to God!!
I agree Scripture tells us mankind DOES have a certain knowledge of God and is without excuse. Every man born is created in God's image, no? Every man born has an instinctual moral ability, no?
I've yet to have an election believer tell me why most people are not drawn to repentance and saved on their first hearing the gospel
If all who will be saved has been predetermined and the "effectual call of God" was so true, why wouldn't a man respond the first time he heard the gospel?
Good questions, rw! Especially for the calvinists!
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 6:07:19 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 6747
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
FreeGrace,
I gave the answer to your five questions.
You did NOT. You gave me a link to the WCF and claimed that it answered my questions.
quote:
I am not obligated to give yes or no answers to something that involves more depth and that I wish to answer in other ways.
No, my questions are simple and straight forward, and the answers can easily be found in the text. They do NOT require more depth. That is a cop-out I think. I also think you are afraid of the answers, because you cannot explain them under your theology.
quote:
I would deeply appreciate it if you were to respect my decision in that matter instead of constantly bashing me for it.
"bashing"?? I'm merely asking you to answer 5 simple questions, which you have clearly indicated that you don't want to answer them.
quote:
And although each topic does not have exhaustive Scripture proof text.....they do provide substantial proof text. That means there is more to be found when some one does research in the Bible.[/qutoe]
Since I can safely presume that you are quite familiar with the documents, why don't you just take their answers and give them to me? Again, all that is needed is 5 simply yes or no answers to questions that are obvious from the text.
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So instead of a constant bash and hounding against the answers I have glady given
If you did answer my 5 questions, please at least give me the post # so I can go back and see what you answered.
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I would appreciate it if you would either read and try to understand the answers I have given you.....or drop it altogether and claim you are simply not interested.
Again, please provide at least the post # where you answered my 5 simple yes or no questions.
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It is getting to the point where I feel like I have been hounded so much, even though I gladly gave, that I dont even want to give any answers.
You haven't even given one answer.
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The portions of LBC or WCF that pertain to the questions are too long for me to post on this forum according to the TOS.
My questions are simple yes or no type of questions.
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That is why I gave a site location of the text.
You copped out on answering my 5 simple questions.
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If you and others on this forum do not have the desire or will to read them because you feel they are long winded, it is not my fault so please stop blaming me.
I will blame you for copping out and not bothering to answer 5 very simple yes or no questions. Just look at the amount of time you and I have spent on all this silliness, when it would have taken all of 1 minute to just answer the questions. So, you've wasted my time as well as yours.
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Thanks for your kindness in this matter.
I would thank you for answering my 5 simple questions, if you are able.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 6:18:00 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 6747
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: online
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ORIGINAL: TheoCentric
Here's a quick question for the non-reformists:
Does our faith come from ourselves or from God? Think carefully and search scripture before answering.
Excellent advice to search Scriptures first. Rom 10:10 is quite clear, I think.
"for with the heart man belives, resulting in righteousness".
iow, man believes, and God saves.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/7/2008 6:27:03 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 6747
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: online
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ORIGINAL: tdd1975
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Dear FG,
After reviewing posts, safely landing and unbuckling - i can say that i fully and wholly agree with your view on rom1. It clearly state "why" nobody has an excuse.
Let us get this straight.
If we stop being bad (suppressing the truth) and start being good (not suppressing the truth).
Then we can merit salvation by the gospel.
Sorry, if this is true then the gospel isn't the power of God unto salvation but man is.
Wow, tdd, do you misunderstand. I've never said that. Did you read post 30769? Free will is nothing more than believing the truth that God reveals. Initially, God reveals or makes evident Himself as Creator to mankind. So, a choice is faced: one either believes that evidence, or rejects that evidence. Cornelius clearly believed that God existed. Fools clearly reject the evidence that God exists. Do you agree or disagree?
Since Cornelius recognized God, he also "feared" (reverenced) Him through prayer and alms. Do you agree or disagree?
Fools who suppress the evidence of God's existence are "given over to their own lusts.." Do you agree or disagree?
Because Cornelius sought God, he found Him, as Scripture promises: 2 Chron 15:2, Heb 11:6b, and Acts 17:27. Agree or disagree?
Because Cornelius sought God, God sent Peter with the gospel. Cornelius believed that evidence that God gave him. Ag | | |
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I really didnt mean to hurt, so i apologize that i did.
