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ORIGINAL: waverider

I think that there is no such thing as "lustless" masturbation because - and I am speaking from experience, not theory - even when we are not fantasizing about a woman, we are indulging an appetite for our own flesh. Being married with a healthy sex life, I have learned that masturbating while on business trips to avoid or deal with temptation - even when I fantasize about my wife - leaves me feeling convicted: I believe that I have indulged, and that I have done something ostensibly normal in an abnormal way (without my wife). That's not God's best.

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Romans 14:23 "If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning."

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Steve Gallagher of Pure Life Ministries defines lust as:

" A sexually impure thought + Desire for more = Lust "

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ORIGINAL: harringm

[:)] Hello: I hope this is the right place for this. My wife and I need some advice and we don't know where to look in the bible. We have been married for 11 years and over the years physically things have become difficult to the point that now intercourse is extreamly painful for my wife. My question is would it be considered a sin in the eyes of the Lord to replace intercourse, which is not possible, with masturbation?

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ORIGINAL: DaveW

Yeah I hear you.

While thinking of a future spouse may be OK, (I really don't know about that) it seems better to just concentrate on the physical reactions and leave any sexual situations out of it all together. If you ever need to concentrate to eliminate or urinate, it is kinda like that. You do not think of anything sexy then, do you?

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In otherwords is it ok to think about what sex will be like within marriage as long as you don't think about any real or particular woman.

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I think you misunderstood my post. No actual woman is involved. Merely the concept of sex within marriage. Do you think this is acceptable?

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Just to fantisize of having sex with a woman you are not married to, as far as Jesus infered, carries the same taint of sexual sin, as commiting the act.

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God's word states that every man's body belongs to God, before marriage. Only after marriage does his body belong to his wife.

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1. How can you think (aka: fantacize) about something that you have no concept of? Until you've experienced sex within the bounds of marriage how can you think about it? This could cause you some issues when you do get married if sex isn't at all what you "thought" it to be.

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2. How can you think (aka: fantacize) about sex within marriage without thinking about a partner?

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Lusting after a woman is okay only if you're married to her? Call me a "Baby" Christian then, because I always thought it was okay as a single man....because, well, I thought God gave us this ability to have that kind of attraction to a woman.

I mean, if I go to a beach or a "Christian" Labor day party involving a pool or some kind of water, and I see "Christian girls" running around the volleyball field in bikini tops, I'm going to have those thoughts when I get home.

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Rom 8:4-9 MKJV so that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [5] For they who are according to the flesh mind the things of flesh, but they who are according to the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [6] For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace [7] because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be. [8] So then they who are in the flesh cannot please God. [9] But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

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Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to every one who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think. But set your mind to be right-minded, even as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.

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1Co 6:12 All things are lawful to me, but not all things profit. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

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2Co 10:2-6 MKJV But I ask, not being present, that I may be bold with the confidence which I think to be daring against some, who thought of us as walking according to flesh. [3] For though walking about in flesh, we do not war according to flesh. [4] For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds, [5] pulling down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought into the obedience of Christ; [6] and having readiness to avenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

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Pro 7:6-10, 21-27 MKJV For at the window of my house I looked through my lattice, [7] and I saw among the simple ones, among the youths, a young man with no understanding, [8] passing through the street near her corner. And he went the way to her house, [9] in the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night. [10] And, behold, there a woman met him, with the dress of a harlot and a guarded heart. [21] With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him. [22] He goes after her immediately, like an ox goes to the slaughter, or like a fool to the correction of the stocks; [23] until a dart strikes through his liver; as a bird hastens to the snare and does not know that it is for his soul. [24] And now listen to me, sons, and attend to the words of my mouth. [25] Do not let your heart turn aside to her ways, do not go astray in her paths. [26] For she has cast down many wounded; yea, many strong men have been slain by her. [27] Her house is the way to hell, going down to the rooms of death.

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... Fantisizing about another person (whether he/she is generic or detailed) is still fantisizing about someone else's body that does not belong to you, as a single guy.

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You are thinking about someone else's body when you masturbate. It is simply your means of arousal, so that, you can get the most estacy out of the orgasm that the masturbation process produces for you.

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Therefore, your fanticy, (whatever it is), is all about increasing the pleasure you want for yourself, and it is not about caring for the feelings, needs, emotions of an actual partner (which is what God's desire & design for sex is all about).

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God never excluded fantisizing about fictional situations, even though Jesus did not mention it in the "lust=adultry" passage.

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In that passage, God commands us to keep our thoughts Holy (seperate from sin/lust), no matter if it is real or fictional.

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I believe that God cares much more about the act that you are thinking/fantisizing about, or the lust your are feeding - not the object of that lust or imagination (whether real, composite, generic, or cartoon).

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And, as a single guy, God has never given a scripture to allow you to lust over anyone you are not married to (wheather real or imagined).

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Lusting after a woman is okay only if you're married to her? Call me a "Baby" Christian then, because I always thought it was okay as a single man....because, well, I thought God gave us this ability to have that kind of attraction to a woman.

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3. Now, about this "christian" beach party. Should you put yourself in the situation of having to flee this temptation? Are these "christian girls" honoring God with their goodies bouncing around for all to see? I think that today's culture has certainly eroded the morals of the bible and desensitized christians to sin. Does this excuse us from obeying God in our life? No, it does not.

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ORIGINAL: vincent1560

I have a quick question for you guys who think masturbation without lust is ok. Is thinking about having sex with your future wife considered lust? When I say future wife I mean it in the abstract. In otherwords is it ok to think about what sex will be like within marriage as long as you don't think about any real or particular woman. I would appreciate any thoughts, this is what I do and I I feel that it is ok. When I try to go without masturbating I find myself lusting after real woman frequently and am far more tempted towards things like pornagraphy.

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God's word states that every man's body belongs to God, before marriage. Only after marriage does his body belong to his wife.

And, God's word also states that every woman's body belongs to God, before marriage. Only after marriage does her body belong to her husband.

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God's word states that every man's body belongs to God, before marriage. Only after marriage does his body belong to his wife.

And, God's word also states that every woman's body belongs to God, before marriage. Only after marriage does her body belong to her husband.
WhatLoveIs,

I echo Wolf's question, which you haven't answered -- which specific verse are you referring to here? I'm not familiar with that particular wording.

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1Co 7:4 ALT The wife does not have control [or, authority] over her own body, _but_ the husband; and, likewise also the husband does not have control over his own body, _but_ the wife.

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Why would I leave a social gathering if I see women in Bikini's at a Florida beach party? Perhaps they think nothing of what they are doing?

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1Co 8:9-13 MKJV But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours becomes a stumbling block to those who are weak. [10] For if anyone sees you who have knowledge sitting in an idol temple, will not the weak one's conscience be lifted up so as to eat things sacrificed to idols? [11] And on your knowledge the weak brother will fall, he for whom Christ died. [12] And sinning in this way against your brothers, and wounding their conscience, being weak, you sin against Christ. [13] Therefore, if food offends my brother, I will eat no flesh forever, that I do not offend my brother.

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I mean, are we honoring God by building a model? Using the bathroom? Working out? Watching or playing a baseball game? Alot of these actions are in the "Neutral" zone, neither good nor evil.

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But then my arguement is, "Well, God did make the female form for us to "check out" otherwise, we wouldn't be able to poplulate the Earth"

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Personally, I always thought, "Hey, you can look, but don't touch" as long as you "Lust", and you don't actually do anything with the woman....I always felt it was okay.

Personally, I never felt guilty about thinking about a woman in a lustful manner, even to this day.

Alot of us think that "hey, as long as you THINK something, and it's not doing anyone else any harm...how is it bad?"

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2Co 10:2-6 MKJV But I ask, not being present, that I may be bold with the confidence which I think to be daring against some, who thought of us as walking according to flesh. [3] For though walking about in flesh, we do not war according to flesh. [4] For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds, [5] pulling down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought into the obedience of Christ; [6] and having readiness to avenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.