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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/11/2008 2:05:59 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3576
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
The Afrocentric schools have been a big debate here. In the school system, 40% of black students don't finish high school. The proposed solution is voluntary schools that teach Afro-centric curriculum. A student of any race can attend, but these schools are in neighbourhoods that are predominantly black. And they want to put black teachers in the schools so that the kids have role models.
Scary premise. The school as, essentially, a parent.
Run, run hard, run fast and run long and run, run, run!!!!!!!!!
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/11/2008 4:12:36 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2019
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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Lexie,
My wife is a teacher in Dallas, Texas. Similar things happen to people of all races. The only thing that seems to make sense is that there is a limited number of openings and you have to know someone to get through all of the red tape.
Even being a friend of a friend is better than simply submitting paperwork, no matter what the qualifications. People have gotten jobs by meeting principals in meetings or seminars, often on the slightest of information. But sometimes that is enough to get the principal to ask that the applicant's application be pulled out of the bottom of the pile.
I've seen people with math and science credentials fruitlessly attempt to cut through red tape, white as could be, even while postings were out that they were woefully short on people with those qualifications. Sometimes the reason has been financial problems in the district or seemingly incompetent principals.
Given that knowing someone personally is often a prelude to getting an interview, it would be extremely possible that personal subjective racial issues are there, but one cannot be sure. In the case of Dallas schools, whites are in the minority. Right now, politics being what they are, there is actually more conflict (or seems to be) between hispanic and black than between black and white.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/11/2008 5:25:17 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3548
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
Even being a friend of a friend is better than simply submitting paperwork, no matter what the qualifications. People have gotten jobs by meeting principals in meetings or seminars, often on the slightest of information. But sometimes that is enough to get the principal to ask that the applicant's application be pulled out of the bottom of the pile.
Yes, this is true, too. Perhaps your husband can look for some opportunities to network. Any professional organizations where you live that he could join?
_____________________________
CW Underground
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/11/2008 10:30:04 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6076
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
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Is anyone going to attempt to answer my questions in post #491?
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/11/2008 10:58:01 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 343
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I have a question for whomever wishes to answer.
In the late '60s and early '70s my sister and I were placed in an orphanage that was all African Americans. We were beat up by the other kids because of our skin color and our Comanche heritage. The adults treated us very poorly as well. How many black people have to apologize to me to right that wrong? I'm not angry over the issue anymore, but if I was, how many blacks would have to apologize before I should consider forgiving and moving past the anger?
For question number one: No apology can ever right a wrong.
For question number two: If you're a truly following Christ's example, you don't need anyone to apologize to you before choosing to forgive and moving past the anger. You only need the grace of God to do either of those.
Consider Joseph and Daniel...they both understood that what people meant for evil, God meant for good.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/11/2008 11:03:55 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6076
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I have a question for whomever wishes to answer.
In the late '60s and early '70s my sister and I were placed in an orphanage that was all African Americans. We were beat up by the other kids because of our skin color and our Comanche heritage. The adults treated us very poorly as well. How many black people have to apologize to me to right that wrong? I'm not angry over the issue anymore, but if I was, how many blacks would have to apologize before I should consider forgiving and moving past the anger?
For question number one: No apology can ever right a wrong.
BINGO!
quote:
For question number two: If you're a truly following Christ's example, you don't need anyone to apologize to you before choosing to forgive and moving past the anger. You only need the grace of God to do either of those.
BINGO!
quote:
Consider Joseph and Daniel...they both understood that what people meant for evil, God meant for good.
and BINGO again!
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/11/2008 11:48:34 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3836
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
OK Wes and others, so you say you personally haven't done anything against others... how do you know? Do you live in an area with few or no minorities? Do you know minority folks but not associate with them? Doyou actually have a relationship with someone of a different ethnicity than yourselves? If the answers are no, then you certainly haven't helped either.
And what of people who've been hurt by centuries of oppression and injustice that IS STILL GOING ON? What do you do, toss a prayer their way every once in a while and pat yourself on the back for being such wonderful servants of God? Or do you go to them, ask how you can help, and listen as they speak their hearts, then stick around to serve them with love?
Do you know that on some reservations the suicide rate for teens is anywhere from 5 to 10 times the national average? That going to town makes you a target for hate crimes and even small Native children are not spared? That job discrimination against Indians is still business as usual in many places near reservations and that neither the DOJ or DOL is willing to prosecute offenders? That the police are far less likely to assist Natives who are victims of crime and often tell them so? That the poorest county in the nation is Shannon County South Dakota, where the Pine Ridge Lakota Reservation is(average yrly income $2500)? That the US Govt has "lost" $10-15 billion or more in Indian trust funds by failing to collect royalties and rents on Indian lands and resources contracted out by the Gov't to timber, mining, oil, and ranching industries? Or that it literally takes an act of Congress for any tribe to get some of its own money to use as start-up capital for economic growth and that said approval can take decades? Or that tribes are still having to fight with the Fed's and the States over tribal resources, especially water?
The Indian Wars never stopped and since you live here in the USA you ARE responsible for what IS going on today. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending that it was all a long time ago doesn't absolve anyone from doing something about injustice. And if you want to know how bad it really is, get to know some Indians and spend sometime in our world. If you want to be really daring, go in disguise as a Native person and walk down the street in Rapid City SD or Flagstaff AZ or even up in Connecticut or Upstate NY one evening and see what happens to you. I would advise you to not include your wives or daughters in such an experiment as they would likely be sexually assaulted. Native American women are 5 times more likely to be victims of sexual assault than all other races combined and the DA's are unlikely to even seek an indictment against the perp(s) in those cases even with air-tight evidence.
Oh, and white folks who hang out with Indians are likely to get beaten up right along with their Indian friends. Whites who help Indians with justice issues are likely to find themselves on the FBI's radar as well as find their phones tapped, their computers hacked into, and their bank accounts messed with, not to mention harassed by local law enforcement. Being a friend to the Native community is definitely not for sissies.
An Indian raped my kids and the local Indian casino paid for his defense.... I had to meet with the Attorney General of the state to force the local DA to not have him released on his OR while facing 8 felony counts(that stemed from his confession) of rape of a child under 8… The judge gave him a year in county jail for raping three children.... For some living near the Native community is definitely not for sissies...
John
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 12:13:12 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3429
Joined: 4/11/2005
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In many redneck racism still exsist, no denying it, though some of our necks are not red, and it does not exsist with us.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 5:27:12 AM
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Darion412
Posts: 18
Joined: 10/15/2007
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quote:
In many redneck racism still exsist, no denying it, though some of our necks are not red, and it does not exsist with us.
Being a young black teen in the south throughout my high school years I have experienced so much racism at times I felt as if my skin color was a curse. 
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 1:31:39 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3548
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I think you've hit the nail on the head: racism is largely geographical. Region, state, city, neighborhood all determine how one views those of other ethnicities. This came up in a conversation with a friend just last night.
She is white and moved several years ago to a different city. She and her husband are now trying to selll their house and looking for another one in another nearby town. When I asked her why, she paused, then said she hated to say it, but there were too many black people in her current neighborhood. This shocked me, because she's the last person I would ever call "racist" and her whole life she had so many different friends of all ethnicities and backgrounds...so I was like, "Huh?"
She said she would probably still be that way if she lived here, but the black people she has encountered in her new city have made her fearful of living around them. She said she did make one black friend after she moved, but even he was pretty much "useless." I was totally shocked, because like I said, she has NEVER said things like this before and I told her so. She said she feels guilty saying it, but she can't help it because the black people where she now lives are rude, violent, they don't work, they don't take care of their homes, their kids stand out in the street and yell profanity at her kids when they're playing in the yard (her kids are 6, 4 and 3). I frankly didn't know what to say about any of that.
And I remember when I first took my husband to my home town, which is predominantly Hispanic. He was shocked that everyone was so friendly and the town was so clean and people obviously had a lot of pride in their homes, etc. He said the Hispanics that he had lived around were the total opposite and he had learned to not live in Hispanic areas--a totally foreign concept to me!
My point is, it's foolish to say racism does not exist, but it is not foolish to say that racism has not permeated one's immediate area or upbringing. It depends a lot on where one lives and the kind of people one comes into contact with. It also holds true that one bad apple spoils the bunch--that one idiot who is the same color as you can cause others to look badly at you. And it doesn't matter what color you are!
_____________________________
CW Underground
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 3:06:12 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 2569
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
She said she feels guilty saying it, but she can't help it because the black people where she now lives are rude, violent, they don't work, they don't take care of their homes, their kids stand out in the street and yell profanity at her kids when they're playing in the yard (her kids are 6, 4 and 3). I frankly didn't know what to say about any of that.
Personally, I think her mistake was saying "black people".  I don't blame her for feeling the way she does. We live in a neighborhood like that, and although it's gotten better, we still want to move somewhere else. Some parts of black culture have a problem, which even our bishop, who is African American, comments on frequently. Knowing nothing about the city when we moved here, we were *terrified* in our first year or so on this street, and the people did *nothing* to prove us wrong. Drugs, vandalism, window-breaking, police chases, general destructiveness and yukiness.
My dh is black, but he's African. This experience has left him with a very, very bad taste in his mouth in regards to American black folks, and it's really too bad. As a black African, he's also felt a great deal of disdain from black Americans--one man openly admitted that he and his friends thought all Africans were ignorant, stupid, and still "living in the trees". 
_____________________________
 Moo
Shameless Self Promotion
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 7:49:44 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3576
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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From kindergarden to the 12th grade, there was one black family in our school district, and they did not move there until I was in 6th grade. ( our desks were arranged in groups of four so this young man was seated next to me so I talked to him some. He called me a "n-word" in jest. That...kinda floored me....  )
Now I live in south Florida, a very diverse community. I can tell ya, where I grew up and at the time I grew up there was racism. Not that it was acted out because..there was no one to act out against I guess but it sure was part of normal conversation.
I guess "different" people are always targeted..and that it was the 60's and 70's.
I have to say, I have met a few racist people here too...and they come in all shades but I would say the most radical....are minorities. Mainly I think because they, predominantly, live together.
I will also say I live in a neighborhood where I am definitely the minority but my neighbors are friendly and do not seem racist at all. The people I work with? Oh yeah.
A white guy, who is my age, is definitley racist, esspecially in his comments. He is a supervisor and I have never seen any evidence his prejudice shapes his decision making, but the comments he makes...they are racist.
Another guy, who is a hispanic black, classifies everyone in groups of race. This race does this and that race does that.
One lady, who is black, went as far as getting another black man fired, because of her hatred toward him because he did not speak the same way she did. Of course there were other issues, but the underlying hatred stemmed from that.
I was talking to another guy once, a white guy. We were discussing religion and politics and I told him I was a conservative christian repubvlican and his response? You know, my girlfriend is black. Race wasn't even a topic of our conversation but when he heard my political and religious position, he felt compelled to say that. He also thought I was catholic because I have red hair.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 8:35:34 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Honey, you are not a curse, I am sorry people can be so ignorant and cruel. You are a child of God made in his image, do not let the weapons of satan tell you different.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Darion412
quote:
In many redneck racism still exsist, no denying it, though some of our necks are not red, and it does not exsist with us.
Being a young black teen in the south throughout my high school years I have experienced so much racism at times I felt as if my skin color was a curse.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 10:27:03 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 307
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
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I agree John that there is NO EXCUSE for anyone committing sexual assault and it has long been my position that pedophiles should be put away for life. Personally, I wouldn't have cared if the guy who attacked you child had been my own brother, I probably would have killed him myself for what he did to a child. I am sorry for what your child and family have been going through- it wasn't right.
You did not say whether the man's tribe simply paid for his attorney(which in itself is not immoral or illegal) or whether they engaged in trying to harass your family(which would be both immoral and illegal) but if all they did was to pay for his attorney that wouldn't be any different from some rich family paying for their son's attorney. That's how the legal system works-if you have the money you can buy a good attorney and up your chances of getting off.
At least the DA was willing to work with you. I was told by the police and the DA up in Idaho that no white man was going to be arrested or prosecuted for raping me despite the fact I knew my attackers(customers at the diner I was working at) and that they intended to kill me, not just rape me. As the cops put it, "No white man will ever be arrested for raping a squaw. That's how it is around here." The cops refused to take a report, and the DA said that if the police saw no reason to persue it neither did he. He also told me not to persue it any further or I might end up in the morgue.
I had been severely injured and had to be stitched up inside, was bruised, choked, and had numerous fractures. I had been tortured and terrorized, even urinated on. I did nothing to warrant the attack, was not flirting with any of the customers, did not dress provocatively, nothing except that I was Native(per the comments made by the men who raped me). My pastor at the time even went to try to talk to these men and get them to see that what they had done was wrong and to at least apologize to me. They laughed and told him to tell me that the next time they'd finish what they started. I left Idaho soon after that.
To this day I cannot be alone in a room with a white adult male without experiencing fear and anxiety, and my attackers have never seen a day in jail. That experience has colored a lot of my views, and made me very mistrustful of the so-called justice system as well. I could not bring myself to explain to people I went to church with(mostly white folks) why I would not go out with so-and-so or attend "singles" events. So-and-so may have been a fine Christian man, but the thought of a white man touching me made my skin crawl and my stomach knot up painfully- all I could see was those 2 who had raped and brutalized me. Nor could I even begin to explain the shame, hatred, and rage I felt at being so brutally betrayed like that. It took years before I could even get past wanting to hunt those men down and kill them in the worst ways I could imagine. Sometimes I still have nightmares about it. Sometimes I'm not sure I wouldn't kill them or at least do them severe bodily harm if I ever crossed paths with them again.
Forgive them? I've asked the Lord to forgive them, but I do not feel it in my heart. I want justice of some kind, something to make things right. I would accept an apology from them, an admission that what they did to me was wrong, but I ain't holding my breath.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 10:56:27 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6076
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
Forgive them? I've asked the Lord to forgive them, but I do not feel it in my heart.
You're only hurting yourself by not forgiving them.
quote:
I want justice of some kind, something to make things right.
I agree they should have to pay for their crime. However, nothing will make things right.
quote:
I would accept an apology from them, an admission that what they did to me was wrong, but I ain't holding my breath.
But you're not wanting an apology from all white men are you?
((((hugs)))) that is so terrible that you had to endure that pain!
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 11:00:22 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 15770
Status: offline
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To add a new topic, I keep on thinking but afraid to bring it up, because this thread by its very nature is a very touchy subject, but what about reverse discrimination as well?
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 11:14:01 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6076
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
To add a new topic, I keep on thinking but afraid to bring it up, because this thread by its very nature is a very touchy subject, but what about reverse discrimination as well?
Good luck! I've tried to get some here to touch on that and they won't.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2008 11:52:50 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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That is terrible, my heart goes out to you, and I an sorry. Though all white men are not the same, just as all men are not all natives are like Gene Leroy Heart, murderer and rapist of three girl scouts. That was a long time ago in Tulsa, and I was child then, but still remember the fear, before he was found. Have you read " SomeOne Cry For The Children"? It is the story of the murder case. The man who did this to you deserve to be casterarted, I am serious. They will be judged someday by a higher power. Though in fairness, not all white men are evil, though I can see why you would think that. That ws horrible and my prayers are with you.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
I agree John that there is NO EXCUSE for anyone committing sexual assault and it has long been my position that pedophiles should be put away for life. Personally, I wouldn't have cared if the guy who attacked you child had been my own brother, I probably would have killed him myself for what he did to a child. I am sorry for what your child and family have been going through- it wasn't right.
You did not say whether the man's tribe simply paid for his attorney(which in itself is not immoral or illegal) or whether they engaged in trying to harass your family(which would be both immoral and illegal) but if all they did was to pay for his attorney that wouldn't be any different from some rich family paying for their son's attorney. That's how the legal system works-if you have the money you can buy a good attorney and up your chances of getting off.
At least the DA was willing to work with you. I was told by the police and the DA up in Idaho that no white man was going to be arrested or prosecuted for raping me despite the fact I knew my attackers(customers at the diner I was working at) and that they intended to kill me, not just rape me. As the cops put it, "No white man will ever be arrested for raping a squaw. That's how it is around here." The cops refused to take a report, and the DA said that if the police saw no reason to persue it neither did he. He also told me not to persue it any further or I might end up in the morgue.
I had been severely injured and had to be stitched up inside, was bruised, choked, and had numerous fractures. I had been tortured and terrorized, even urinated on. I did nothing to warrant the attack, was not flirting with any of the customers, did not dress provocatively, nothing except that I was Native(per the comments made by the men who raped me). My pastor at the time even went to try to talk to these men and get them to see that what they had done was wrong and to at least apologize to me. They laughed and told him to tell me that the next time they'd finish what they started. I left Idaho soon after that.
To this day I cannot be alone in a room with a white adult male without experiencing fear and anxiety, and my attackers have never seen a day in jail. That experience has colored a lot of my views, and made me very mistrustful of the so-called justice system as well. I could not bring myself to explain to people I went to church with(mostly white folks) why I would not go out with so-and-so or attend "singles" events. So-and-so may have been a fine Christian man, but the thought of a white man touching me made my skin crawl and my stomach knot up painfully- all I could see was those 2 who had raped and brutalized me. Nor could I even begin to explain the shame, hatred, and rage I felt at being so brutally betrayed like that. It took years before I could even get past wanting to hunt those men down and kill them in the worst ways I could imagine. Sometimes I still have nightmares about it. Sometimes I'm not sure I wouldn't kill them or at least do them severe bodily harm if I ever crossed paths with them again.
Forgive them? I've asked the Lord to forgive them, but I do not feel it in my heart. I want justice of some kind, something to make things right. I would accept an apology from them, an admission that what they did to me was wrong, but I ain't holding my breath.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2008 4:01:17 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 343
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
I agree John that there is NO EXCUSE for anyone committing sexual assault and it has long been my position that pedophiles should be put away for life.
At least the DA was willing to work with you. I was told by the police and the DA up in Idaho that no white man was going to be arrested or prosecuted for raping me despite the fact I knew my attackers(customers at the diner I was working at) and that they intended to kill me, not just rape me. As the cops put it, "No white man will ever be arrested for raping a squaw. That's how it is around here." The cops refused to take a report, and the DA said that if the police saw no reason to persue it neither did he. He also told me not to persue it any further or I might end up in the morgue.
Forgive them? I've asked the Lord to forgive them, but I do not feel it in my heart. I want justice of some kind, something to make things right. I would accept an apology from them, an admission that what they did to me was wrong, but I ain't holding my breath.
I, too, am sorry for what you've had to endure...and I know it will never truly be over for you. In reading the reactions from the local law enforcement, it appears they are still in the dark ages and angers me.
As for forgiveness...don't worry about "feeling" it...you never will and are not expected to. Forgiveness is an act of the will, much like the love we are to extend to our neighbors...not an emotion or feeling. You can make the decision to forgive and give it to God...and I believe it's something you'll probably have to do over and over, every day, numerous times daily, for the rest of your life. It's only by the grace of God that we can even attempt forgiveness.
My prayers are with you...I'll pray for a miracle. A miracle that some day, you may actually go through the entire day without even thinking about this horrific act! I know it's possible with God's grace!
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 8:00:55 AM
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lexie
Posts: 3059
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
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quote:
Yes, this is true, too. Perhaps your husband can look for some opportunities to network. Any professional organizations where you live that he could join?
Actually my husband now works for another (better) school board, so it's not an issue to him anymore.
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As for forgiveness...don't worry about "feeling" it...you never will and are not expected to. Forgiveness is an act of the will, much like the love we are to extend to our neighbors...not an emotion or feeling. You can make the decision to forgive and give it to God...and I believe it's something you'll probably have to do over and over, every day, numerous times daily, for the rest of your life. It's only by the grace of God that we can even attempt forgiveness
Excellent! That is something I've dealt with in the past. You can forgive a person, but it doesn't mean you have to forget what they have done. My MIL said some extremely hurtful things to me and about me to everyone she could. She once said to my husband (when we were dating) loud enough for me to hear (we were in different rooms but she was yelling it) "don't you ever bring any mulatto children into my house." She pointed to a black child and said "do you see this, this is what your children should look like." Things have since happened and she isn't like that anymore and I have forgiven | | |
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