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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2008 8:25:57 AM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EverLearning
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
But stopping illegal immigration entirely is not possible unless Americans want to give up more rights than already required by PA II.
Really? Why is that? It would be as simple as stopping turning a blind eye on employers paying substandard wages to illegals and firing any police chief/mayor/judge who advocates not enforcing immigration laws. The baloney that we can't possibly find all the illegals is a farce as well, if we stop giving liscenses to illegals and stop villifying border agents and city/state officials who uphold the laws that exist then we will see at the very least the vast majority of illegal immigration cease on it's own. When we make coming here illegally and not getting deported easy then we are inviting continued violations of our laws.
It is very easy to slip across the border and stay that's why 250k do it every year. You only need a license to drive if you get caught. You are right in one aspect, this problem would be less if the American people (government, employers, normal people that hire them to watch their kids or clean/build things in their homes) weren't complicit with breaking immigration law. Then again, America deifies the outlaw.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2008 9:58:50 AM
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1dblthnk02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I meant to say that the concept of race doesn't have to involve bigotry
So, then . . .?
quote:
The current theme of the threadd dictates what is being talked about and you can't make a thread for a certain item because it's covered by the ONE STOP THREAD... Blah...
I understand your frustration, but does this prove that the immigrant control issue is not a racial issue as well as a legal issue? Racial profiling is now a common practice by homeland security and immigration control. Therefore, that makes it a racial issue, does it not?
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2008 10:07:13 AM
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1dblthnk02
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ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
IF illegal immigration is a big problem...and many think it is....then it must be important enough to check suspicious people out.
In this case, "suspicious people" would be defined as anyone who has a French name, French accent, etc. You have got to see the problem here: this is America, not the Third Reich. People are supposed to have their basic human rights and ethnic dignity, are they not?
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I just wouldn't eat French fries in public..is all.
No, that is not all. You would be suspected, questioned, and singled out for deportation on a regular basis in spite of your citizenship. You would be demanded to make an account of yourself in spite of your standing as an American like any other.
Worst of all, the scrutiny would fuel the bigotry of other Americans who are constantly bombarded with news stories about how "your people" are ruining the country, etc.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 4/24/2008 10:16:44 AM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2008 10:31:00 AM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
So you would be in favor of repealing all immigration laws?
No. I am for integrating these people into the system and a consumption tax as opposed to an income tax. This would eliminate a cash based underground economy that is taken advantage of by citizens and non-citizens alike.
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Do you think we needed more laborers during our westward expansion than we do now?
The westward expansion wouldn't have been necessary except for the need for more land for the incoming immigrants. No visas necessary back then! But then again the CO bill wouldn't have been introduced if there wasn't a need for these laborers!
BTW, were the native American fairly compensated for the land these immigrants in THEIR land took or was it just an invasion by a people who thought themselves superior to the "savage" indigenous population. So who were the first illegal immigrants?
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2008 4:29:47 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
So, then . . .?
Ok... Again.. Race can be part of an issue and not involve bigotry... That's all... There isn't a demon behide every rock....
quote:
I understand your frustration, but does this prove that the immigrant control issue is not a racial issue as well as a legal issue?
I showed the most compelling reason why in regards to this forum... As for it being a racial issue, its simply the measure folks what things to be a race issue... It's easy to point and say illegal immigrantion is a RACE issue because the focus is one one race for the most part, but it's not their race that's the issue it's the FACT they are breaking the law.
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Racial profiling is now a common practice by homeland security and immigration control. Therefore, that makes it a racial issue, does it not?
Well common sense dictates if a black man robs a bank they are not going to stop Whites, Chinese, and Hispanics looking for the black man... Right? Same should go in regards to security issues and the border... It's mainly Hispanics ILLEGALY crossing the border in the South, so it's STUPID to believe they shouldn't focus on that particular group ... That not a matter of race, but common sense…
If you were robbed by a midget and they brought to the lineup a cross section of the society and all the average height you wouldn't wonder what's wrong with these people?
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 4/24/2008 4:36:42 PM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2008 7:18:26 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Well common sense dictates if a black man robs a bank they are not going to stop Whites, Chinese, and Hispanics looking for the black man... Right? Same should go in regards to security issues and the border... It's mainly Hispanics ILLEGALY crossing the border in the South, so it's STUPID to believe they shouldn't focus on that particular group ... That not a matter of race, but common sense…
So every single American citizen, especially the millions who live at our southern border, who "look Mexican" should have to put up with being stopped by law enforcement and asked for proof that they are a US citizen? Did you forget about the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution? Or is that only for white people?
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2008 7:23:19 PM
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1dblthnk02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Ok... Again.. Race can be part of an issue and not involve bigotry... That's all... There isn't a demon behide every rock....
Actually, there usually is.
There most certainly is bigotry fueling the fires over immigration and illegal entry. The closer that you live to the situation, the more you see it play out in people's attitudes.
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It's easy to point and say illegal immigrantion is a RACE issue because the focus is one one race for the most part, but it's not their race that's the issue it's the FACT they are breaking the law.
Again: immigration control involves racial profiling on the part of law enforcement. How in the world can race not figure into racial profiling?
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It's mainly Hispanics ILLEGALY crossing the border in the South, so it's STUPID to believe they shouldn't focus on that particular group ... That not a matter of race, but common sense…
Can you differentiate between a legal "Hispanic" or an illegal one just by looking?
For that matter, can you tell the difference between a Native American and a Mexican just by looking? How about a Middle Easterner, or an East Indian, or a Pacific Islander, Alaska Native, etc. . .
All of these groups become potential victims of racial profiling when we are trying to isolate "Hispanics."
Apparently, you are comfortable with this idea. Undoubtedly this is because you have never been detained and questioned by authorities doubting the legitimacy of your residency/citizenship strictly on the basis of your looks.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2008 9:16:09 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
Actually, there usually is.
And where they are not they are assumed? Wonderful...
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There most certainly is bigotry fueling the fires over immigration and illegal entry. The closer that you live to the situation, the more you see it play out in people's attitudes.
Maybe the fires are fueled by folks who have no regard for the rule of law... I don't like paying more to insure my car because people have no regard for the law, or more taxes for that matter... Does that make me a bigot? Should I have to pay extra so a person can break the law to enter the country and break a host more of them living here? No... It's wrong and smacks of hypocrisy...
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Again: immigration control involves racial profiling on the part of law enforcement. How in the world can race not figure into racial profiling?
Again, it's not their race that is the issue; they are breaking the law... Yes those who illegally cross the border in the South have a profile and it's matches that of common inhabitant of Mexico... Who should the border patrol be looking for at the US/Mexico border? Santa’s Elves?
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Can you differentiate between a legal "Hispanic" or an illegal one just by looking?
Of course once they have broken the law and entered the country the situation changes...Of course we can do more to keep them settling in... Yet at the border things could be different...
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Apparently, you are comfortable with this idea.
Nah...
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Undoubtedly this is because you have never been detained and questioned by authorities doubting the legitimacy of your residency/citizenship strictly on the basis of your looks.
Oh how wrong you are...
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2008 9:22:20 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
So every single American citizen, especially the millions who live at our southern border, who "look Mexican" should have to put up with being stopped by law enforcement and asked for proof that they are a US citizen?
As I stated earlier....IF....immigration is a serious problem, yes.
Notice the capitolized if. That is very key to my point. IS immigraqtion that big of an issue? Some seem to think so. Others not.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 10:14:05 AM
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1dblthnk02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Maybe the fires are fueled by folks who have no regard for the rule of law
No, I said that the fires are fueled by bigotry. This issue shouldn't be so inflammatory if it is strictly a point of law. But it isn't.
quote:
Again, it's not their race that is the issue; they are breaking the law
It is not against the law to simply look like you could be Mexican. And if you do look Mexican, or even are Mexican, it is not right for someone to assume you are here illegally.
quote:
Of course once they have broken the law and entered the country the situation changes
What do you mean? I was asking you if you can tell, on sight, the difference between a documented and undocumented Hispanic.
And, yes, I prefer the word undocumented over illegal, because words like illegal alien are intended to be demeaning, technical defintions of words notwithstanding.
It's all in how words are used.
quote:
Oh how wrong you are...
Good. Then please tell us all from a firsthand point of view how humiliating it is to constantly be a suspect based on your looks . . .
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 4/25/2008 10:22:41 AM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 10:16:53 AM
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1dblthnk02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
As I stated earlier....IF....immigration is a serious problem, yes.
So, now America-- land of freedom, land of liberty, the beacon of light and promise for the whole world-- has come to this, and you are satisfied?
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 10:25:33 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1068
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
So every single American citizen, especially the millions who live at our southern border, who "look Mexican" should have to put up with being stopped by law enforcement and asked for proof that they are a US citizen?
As I stated earlier....IF....immigration is a serious problem, yes.
Notice the capitolized if. That is very key to my point. IS immigraqtion that big of an issue? Some seem to think so. Others not.
Just as long as they pester everyone looking for illegal caucasians, asians and Africans. If we are going to throw out the 4th Amendment let's do it in a BIG way! Then we can rename the Dept. of Homeland Security to the Dept. of Fatherland Security or the KGB!
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 10:48:36 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 4657
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
So every single American citizen, especially the millions who live at our southern border, who "look Mexican" should have to put up with being stopped by law enforcement and asked for proof that they are a US citizen? Did you forget about the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution? Or is that only for white people?
At Border Patrol checkpoints they check to see if everyone is a citizen. And they run the drug dog around every car. There is no discrimination that I have seem. I am as white as white can be; skin, hair, etc. and I still have to show my drivers permit many time at these check points.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 12:02:29 PM
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CatholicCritter
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quote:
Planned Parenthood of Idaho officials apologized Wednesday for what they called an employee's "serious mistake" in encouraging a donation aimed at aborting black babies...
http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/308723.html
PP is insidious. Just for context, here's what their founder has gone on record as saying about this topic:
quote:
"We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population," she said, "if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members." Woman's Body, Woman's Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America, by Linda Gordon
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http://saintunderconstruction.blogspot.com/
"There are not 100 people who hate the Catholic Church, yet there are millions who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be." --Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 2:45:33 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1068
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
So every single American citizen, especially the millions who live at our southern border, who "look Mexican" should have to put up with being stopped by law enforcement and asked for proof that they are a US citizen? Did you forget about the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution? Or is that only for white people?
At Border Patrol checkpoints they check to see if everyone is a citizen. And they run the drug dog around every car. There is no discrimination that I have seem. I am as white as white can be; skin, hair, etc. and I still have to show my drivers permit many time at these check points.
Thanks
RC
And I'm fine with that! It's the stopping a guy that looks Mexican in San Diego or any other place within the borders I'm against! That's a clear violation of the 4th Amendment! But it's only the 2nd Amendment all the law and order types get excited about!
_____________________________
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 2:56:15 PM
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WesP
Posts: 1549
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From: Where God needs me to be
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
So every single American citizen, especially the millions who live at our southern border, who "look Mexican" should have to put up with being stopped by law enforcement and asked for proof that they are a US citizen? Did you forget about the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution? Or is that only for white people?
At Border Patrol checkpoints they check to see if everyone is a citizen. And they run the drug dog around every car. There is no discrimination that I have seem. I am as white as white can be; skin, hair, etc. and I still have to show my drivers permit many time at these check points.
Thanks
RC
And I'm fine with that! It's the stopping a guy that looks Mexican in San Diego or any other place within the borders I'm against! That's a clear violation of the 4th Amendment! But it's only the 2nd Amendment all the law and order types get excited about!
That's absolutely right! All the libs want to do is take away my guns!
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Peace,
Wes
Proverbs 7:2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 3:04:03 PM
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earthless
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From: where thawing pigeons reside...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I am as white as white can be; skin, hair, etc. and I still have to show my drivers permit many time at these check points.
Well... anyone that resembles THIS guy needs to be checked!
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 3:29:00 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1068
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
So every single American citizen, especially the millions who live at our southern border, who "look Mexican" should have to put up with being stopped by law enforcement and asked for proof that they are a US citizen? Did you forget about the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution? Or is that only for white people?
At Border Patrol checkpoints they check to see if everyone is a citizen. And they run the drug dog around every car. There is no discrimination that I have seem. I am as white as white can be; skin, hair, etc. and I still have to show my drivers permit many time at these check points.
Thanks
RC
And I'm fine with that! It's the stopping a guy that looks Mexican in San Diego or any other place within the borders I'm against! That's a clear violation of the 4th Amendment! But it's only the 2nd Amendment all the law and order types get excited about!
That's absolutely right! All the libs want to do is take away my guns!
As long as the government doesn't forget about the other 9 Amendments in the Bill of Rights!
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 6:11:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 1914
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quote:
No, I said that the fires are fueled by bigotry. This issue shouldn't be so inflammatory if it is strictly a point of law. But it isn't.
Of course not... It's easy to defend the law breakers by believing there is a bigot behiond every rock... It's fueled by bigots who jump on the law bandwagon and it's fueled by the lawless who use race to defend the law breakers...
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It is not against the law to simply look like you could be Mexican. And if you do look Mexican, or even are Mexican, it is not right for someone to assume you are here illegally.
It's against the law to enter the country illegally, right? For the record you, not I mentioned race here...
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What do you mean? I was asking you if you can tell, on sight, the difference between a documented and undocumented Hispanic.
I mean what is says...Once they enter the country illegally you can't just sweep everyone that looks Hispanic...
You left out the rest of my quote...
At the border one can tell the illegal’s from the non-illegal’s... The legal ones come through checkpoints, the illegals ones cross everywhere else...
quote:
And, yes, I prefer the word undocumented over illegal, because words like illegal alien are intended to be demeaning, technical defintions of words notwithstanding.
It's all in how words are used.
They are criminals so I won't water down their crime by putting a nice name on that sounds like someone forget to cross the T or dot the I on a piece of paper...
They should be turned away at the border and the goverment of the United States is doing it's God ordained job, keeping order in this regard, and those folks who break the law crossing the border, and living apart from the laws of the land are as well breaking God's law by not obeying the lawful laws of the land... As well those who knowningly employ this law breakers need to be dealt with as well...
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Oh how wrong you are...
Good. Then please tell us all from a firsthand point of view how humiliating it is to constantly be a suspect based on your looks . . .
Simple... Because I am white and don't like the fact illegal aliens enter this country I am consider a bigot... And I am labled that as a means of covering the crime of the those illegally entering this country...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 4/25/2008 6:19:40 PM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 6:36:03 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 744
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From: Mpls, MN
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We are too racist of a country not to have race involved. Is every american a racist , of course not. Should we arrest everyone that looks like one?
Why are'nt we building a fence on the Canadian border, terrorists and illegals come thru there also. Why don't we build fences along the coasts, they flying, coming on ships, etc.
If you are not Native to America, your an illegal alien here. It can 1 or 10 generations away. But who can prove citizenship all the way to the first american forebear.
Which has all their papers?
I say build the fence, so when the time comes , we are sealed in this mess we call America.
_____________________________
1Co 7:22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/26/2008 8:13:51 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3564
Joined: 4/16/2005
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quote:
land of freedom, land of liberty, the beacon of light and promise for the whole world-- has come to this, and you are satisfied?
Freedom is the acceptance of more responsibility not less. IF immigration is a huge problem then there shouldn't be a problem with a few searches etc. How many times are you gonna get attention?
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It's the stopping a guy that looks Mexican in San Diego or any other place within the borders I'm against!
Realisitically, how many times has this happened to each individual?
quote:
Why are'nt we building a fence on the Canadian border
They have hockey and good beer.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/26/2008 9:32:21 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 414
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Freedom is the acceptance of more responsibility not less.
Historically, freedom is the state of a free people. When the governed have a say in how they are governed, these are a free people. Americans are rapidly losing sight of this vital fact.
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IF immigration is a huge problem then there shouldn't be a problem with a few searches etc. How many times are you gonna get attention?
Everytime. Whenever I cross the Arizona border into California, a border worker stops me and asks, "Where are you coming from?" He does not care where I am coming from. He doesn't even listen to my answer. Asking the question merely gives him the opportunity to profile me and look into my vehicle to see who else is with me.
Now, this doesn't sound so terrible on the surface, but I find it very humiliating. I have seen road blocks set up on major highways stopping travelers to see if their "papers are in order," i.e. license, registration, insurance, etc. This is exactly what Communist Russia used to do to their citizenry at county borders. This is not the kind of freedom that my grandfather and uncles fought for. A country that racially profiles and legally suppresses the people's ordinary travel isn't the America that I was raised in.
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Realisitically, how many times has this happened to each individual?
How many times is acceptable, and how many times is unacceptable?
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They have hockey and good beer.
And their citizens aren't literally dying to get out. They are also not at all adverse to Mexican immigration: read here.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 4/26/2008 9:40:47 AM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/26/2008 10:20:20 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 4657
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From: Oklahoma
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As the news media has been hashing and reporting on the Penn primaries some have purported that.
57% if white males voting for Clinton is racist, but 92% of blacks voting for Obama is not racist.
Give me a break.
I still maintain that if Clintno figures a way to win this primary; the true "color" of Obama's supporters will come out with rioting in the streets (just as Sharpton predicted or more properly threatened).
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/26/2008 1:56:06 PM
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1dblthnk02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I still maintain that if Clintno figures a way to win this primary; the true "color" of Obama's supporters will come out with rioting in the streets (just as Sharpton predicted or more properly threatened).
A link to Sharpton's words would have been very helpful here. But, I disagree anyway. Obama's supporters are not going to literally riot in the streets simply because he does not win the primary. That idea is ludicrous.
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