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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 5:16:52 PM
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bluegravel
Posts: 81
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quote:
ORIGINAL: reillan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
How do nudists reconcile all the verses about modesty with their view on nudism? How can someone think one can be a nudist and still be modest?
I ran a search on the word modest in this thread and unless the search engine is down it did not come up with one hit.
Muslims would argue that if a woman isn't clothed from head to toe, so that you can't see any of her at all, she's being immodest.
If you disagree with that, how do you reconcile it?
What is it about certain sections of skin that makes them more immodest?
The male breast, if provided estrogen, operates in the same fashion as the female breast. Why is a man's chest decent and a woman's obscene? Why is it only the nipple that must technically be covered in order to prevent immodesty?
We believe, quite frankly, that immodesty is a function of more than just clothes. You can be modest while wearing nothing, and you can be immodest while fully covered. It is the way the clothes are worn, the actions taken by the man or woman in that setting, that describes immodest behavior. The kind of dancing people do at modern nightclubs would be immodest, whereas people simply lying in poolchairs catching some sun retain their modesty.
"'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.'" - Luke 12:27
Ooooo - I just said that!!!
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 5:34:35 PM
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traisjames
Posts: 22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
Quit trying to convince people with common sense that being nekked around other people will not tempt or lead to sin, and put some clothes on.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Nekid is as nekid does.
Why do you use Nekid and not Naked? I would understand Naked as "Nude is as Nude does" just doesn't flow as well as naked, though I know I prefer, as I bet reillan would, to be refered to as nude or naturist, not naked.
We are naked, yes, but we are not defenseless or forced against our will. Nekid, as mentioned at http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/2008/may/12/naked_nekkid_and_nude/ we arn't up to something bad.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Why would it be? You're alone and not tempted or tempting others to stumble. You're still be modest.
What about at like the YMCA or what have you? I know mine doesn't have private showers.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Why does the woman have to be well-proportioned to be tempting? I completely agree. I am getting annoyed at how many of my friends think they need diets to look better...wish they would learn it doesn't take looks to be attractive.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
It's funny, but as far as I can remember (and I could be wrong) we haven't had one female in this thread who advocates Nudism. It's all been males.
Im afraid your right Kath, but then again, there is only two of us, reillan and I, who have done multiple posts, though I think there was one other person, but I dont remember who, so its not like its 50 guys arguing for nudity. it was actually a blog post by a lady who owns a Clothing optional resort(? its called an Inn in the name but most hotels are that nice)
quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
Nudity is natural - it's the clothes that are sinful!
Yes, they can be as reillan said, you can also be modist in clothing too. While I argue that there is nothing wrong with social nudity, I don't shout that we should go around burning all clothing. That might work down in the south, but up here in the north, I really don't want to go outside during a blizzered without anything on. frostbite is bad no matter where you get it, and if I lose a leg to bite, I will be out of my current job.
Real quick, thanks for comming back Reillan...you are alot better writer than I am.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 7:56:23 PM
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reillan
Posts: 40
Joined: 5/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
 This is a Christian website, not Muslim.
If, as you intimate, a Christian should identify modesty with the ability to conceal the body, then no one is as modest as a fundamental Muslim woman! I bet the most conservative Christian women in here often wear dresses in public or at church that reveal an ankle, hug the wasteline, dip a bit at the neckline, and so on. None of them are nearly as modest as a Muslim woman in full burka, if you define modesty by how many clothes you wear. So, therefore, all Christian women are immodest by comparison to Muslim women. Even Quaker women are immodest by that comparison!
So my question is: what is modesty? If modesty is the concealing of bits of skin, how far is too far? How much skin can be revealed and retain modesty? You would claim nude is immodest - is a bikini? Is a 1-piece swimsuit? Is a 1-piece swimsuit with a pair of shorts? Is a t-shirt and shorts outfit? How about a skirt that goes to the knees? To the ankle? Does it need to brush the ground as you walk? What happens when you sit down?
For a man it is just the same: Is a three piece suit enough? What if he has short sleeves? What if he has no sleeves? What if he wears shorts? What if he takes off the shirt to go swimming just in shorts?
I guarantee you'll never find a definition that every Christian agrees upon, and that's because it's a hard concept to define. We, as nudists, believe it has nothing to do with the amount of clothing. A woman can be as modest in a sports bra and shorts just as she can in a burka, and she can be just that modest wearing nothing at all. She can also be immodest in a burka, by the blink of an eye, the slight raising of a veil, and so on.
< Message edited by reillan -- 6/2/2008 8:06:10 PM >
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 7:58:19 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17132
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quote:
she can be just that modest wearing nothing at all.
How?
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 8:00:59 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
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What he is saying is that if you are flaunting yourself it is not modest. If you are simply enjoying nature the way God created you that is fine. Or, that's what I got out of it.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 8:01:33 PM
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reillan
Posts: 40
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
What he is saying is that if you are flaunting yourself it is not modest. If you are simply enjoying nature the way God created you that is fine. Or, that's what I got out of it.
That's it in a nutshell.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 8:04:04 PM
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bluegravel
Posts: 81
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
What he is saying is that if you are flaunting yourself it is not modest. If you are simply enjoying nature the way God created you that is fine. Or, that's what I got out of it.
Geeez if only it wasn't for that sin thing in the Garden, we could all be as free as birds and flittin it and flauntin it - all without sin of course. Splitting hairs only leads to one thing: a conditioner after every shampoo.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 8:07:27 PM
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reillan
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Also, some lovely Bible verses to illustrate my point:
"Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight." - 1 Peter 3:3-4
"I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God." - 1 Timothy 2:9-10
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 9:10:03 PM
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traisjames
Posts: 22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
What he is saying is that if you are flaunting yourself it is not modest. If you are simply enjoying nature the way God created you that is fine. Or, that's what I got out of it.
That does pretty much sum it up...thats why besides swimming, my favorite thing to do while nude is to go hiking. Belive it or not, you can also get closer to animals while nude then when clothed, and for multiple reasons.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 9:12:49 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17132
Joined: 2/28/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
Nudity is natural - it's the clothes that are sinful!
quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
What he is saying is that if you are flaunting yourself it is not modest. If you are simply enjoying nature the way God created you that is fine. Or, that's what I got out of it.
Geeez if only it wasn't for that sin thing in the Garden, we could all be as free as birds and flittin it and flauntin it - all without sin of course. Splitting hairs only leads to one thing: a conditioner after every shampoo.
Either my patented sarcasm meter is broken or you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 9:25:29 PM
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traisjames
Posts: 22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gengwall
quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
I know someone who says he is a Christian.
Additionally, he is not married and he regularly goes to 2 different nudist resorts; both of them "family-oriented".
To continue . . . a couple of times, he told me about some events that happened at the resort that were turned into private jokes between him and his friends from the resort. I found the stories to be vulgar and quite crude (although, admittedly, it took me a couple of months to actually tell him that).
I questioned this person one time about whether everyone behaved themselves at the resorts, and his reply to me was that sometimes, no, people didn't; but as long as it wasn't hurting anyone, everyone pretty much minded their own business.
This man also participates in different levels of porn. I know this because Our Lord's Holy Spirit prompted me to question him about this.
Fair enough - I would categorize him as a swinger based on his own actions and words.
Unforchently gengwall, I wouldn't call him a swinger. A swinger is someone who has sex with other people and their partner does the same...knowing that the other does that. Swinger try to hid behind nudists and as a result, help to ruin stuff for the rest of us. However bad that is, this guy seems worse than that. He seems to be...well there is a word for it but I am not sure what it is...he seems to get pleasure to of seeing people nude, or in this case naked, and exploit people who just want to enjoy themselves as God meant them to be. Even nudists hate these people. We try to avoid them or kick them out, but...
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 9:34:48 PM
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traisjames
Posts: 22
Joined: 5/27/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
When a "lifestyle" becomes more important than Christ alone, it becomes idol worship.
Very true.
This person that I mentioned earlier . . . he told me that nudism was so important to him that he absolutely would not ever give it up.
See if I knew for a fact that God was against social nudism then absolutly I would stop, I just see God leaning the other way. After all, he did make is in his image, and he made us nude.
(if you couldn't tell, I have dug into the past posts and am reading every one. I am currently on page 3)
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 9:40:00 PM
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bluegravel
Posts: 81
Joined: 5/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
Nudity is natural - it's the clothes that are sinful!
quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
What he is saying is that if you are flaunting yourself it is not modest. If you are simply enjoying nature the way God created you that is fine. Or, that's what I got out of it.
Geeez if only it wasn't for that sin thing in the Garden, we could all be as free as birds and flittin it and flauntin it - all without sin of course. Splitting hairs only leads to one thing: a conditioner after every shampoo.
Either my patented sarcasm meter is broken or you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Sorry.........I think the whole question is absurd. 
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 9:58:45 PM
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reillan
Posts: 40
Joined: 5/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: traisjames
Unforchently gengwall, I wouldn't call him a swinger. A swinger is someone who has sex with other people and their partner does the same...knowing that the other does that. Swinger try to hid behind nudists and as a result, help to ruin stuff for the rest of us. However bad that is, this guy seems worse than that. He seems to be...well there is a word for it but I am not sure what it is...he seems to get pleasure to of seeing people nude, or in this case naked, and exploit people who just want to enjoy themselves as God meant them to be. Even nudists hate these people. We try to avoid them or kick them out, but...
I disagree. There are certainly people who are swingers who call themselves naturists, and there are even some who visit parks looking for that type of activity. The Christians and even the non-Christians who have no desire for such activities try to either prevent that element from entering or completely dissociate from it. If there were one thing that would bring me to stop being a nudist, it would be if my park were to suddenly be inundated by swingers.
However, I have not met anyone I could yet classify as a swinger, I have only heard about it 2nd or 3rd-hand. Additionally, AANR parks are specifically intended to be family-oriented parks, and the family-oriented parks are not to promote that kind of activity. If AANR finds out one is, they cut them from the fold very, very quickly. There's another resort near where I live that classifies itself as nudist, but that hasn't been able to enter AANR because of the rumor about that going on there.
But you can't say nudists hate these people, because some of these people classify themselves as nudists and I'm sure not all of them are self-loathing. 
I think it's certainly possible for a Christian to limit his or her contact with swingers so that they do not interfere in any way.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 10:05:37 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
Posts: 7729
Joined: 6/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
That is real old.......... 
Deep down, you laughed.
_____________________________
The lunatic, the lover, and the poet, are of imagination all compact.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 10:33:41 PM
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bluegravel
Posts: 81
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
My head hurts from trying to understand why someone needed their personal belief(s) about nudity substantiated by people who do not agree with them. I am starting to think that that hole in the ozone is spreading............ 
< Message edited by sevenseas -- 6/3/2008 10:14:12 AM >
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 11:38:25 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17132
Joined: 2/28/2005
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quote:
My head hurts from trying to understand why someone needed their personal belief(s) about nudity substantiated by people who do not agree with them.
Validation.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 11:51:37 PM
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reillan
Posts: 40
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And yet, I bet every single person here defends their beliefs about Christianity, without intending it to be an attempt at validation.
My beliefs need no validation. However, I do like to avoid persecution for my beliefs, which happens quite often. Some people who claim to be Christians have had the most un-Christian attitudes when discovering my nudism (while others have accepted it, saying effectively "hey, it's not ok for me, but it's ok for you"). I know people who've been kicked out of supposedly Christian groups for their beliefs. My resort's church attempted to join the congress of local churches in its area, and all but two of the local churches refused its entry (of the other two, one was a Disciples of Christ, and one was a Methodist, I believe). I guess 10 were bad and 2 were good. 
It's painful to have beliefs persecuted without reason. I'm simply trying to get people to accept nudism as an activity some Christians can do, although I want those people who can't handle themselves not to even think about participating in it. It's not validation - it's acceptance.
Additionally: you could make the same argument about those who are arguing against nudity. Why bothering arguing against it when there are so many posting so adamantly in favor of it? Must be for validation!
< Message edited by reillan -- 6/3/2008 12:17:11 AM >
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/3/2008 12:20:15 AM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
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I love the way they keep posting verses that have nothing to do with saying it is OK to go around in the buff. They keep talkin about "how God intended things to be," but the fall kinda messed all that up.
I still say it's a ploy by wrinkly old guys to try to fool younger women into taking their clothes off, and the hormone-soaked young guys (for some reason) think it's a good idea, or that it might actually work on some large scale.
Gravity can be cruel to both sexes. Cover it up. Quit trying to convince people with common sense this is a good idea or (I still can't believe you are doing it with a staight face) something that either glorifies God or lessens temptation.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/3/2008 12:29:42 AM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: reillan
And yet, I bet every single person here defends their beliefs about Christianity, without intending it to be an attempt at validation.
My beliefs need no validation. However, I do like to avoid persecution for my beliefs, which happens quite often. Some people who claim to be Christians have had the most un-Christian attitudes when discovering my nudism (while others have accepted it, saying effectively "hey, it's not ok for me, but it's ok for you"). I know people who've been kicked out of supposedly Christian groups for their beliefs. My resort's church attempted to join the congress of local churches in its area, and all but two of the local churches refused its entry (of the other two, one was a Disciples of Christ, and one was a Methodist, I believe). I guess 10 were bad and 2 were good.
It's painful to have beliefs persecuted without reason. I'm simply trying to get people to accept nudism as an activity some Christians can do, although I want those people who can't handle themselves not to even think about participating in it. It's not validation - it's acceptance.
Additionally: you could make the same argument about those who are arguing against nudity. Why bothering arguing against it when there are so many posting so adamantly in favor of it? Must be for validation!
Friend, if you were a member of my church and we knew you were doing this, you could bet we would come to you and discuss it with love and concern for you and the church. We would give you time to repent and leve this lifestyle. If you refused, we would (with heavy hearts) remove you from the church roll and disfellowship you.
You are bringing a reproach against the church and your Lord. No amount of misquoted scripture or anything else will change that.
You can call that "un-Christian" if you like, but my belief is the one that squares with scripture. I pray you consider this prayerfully and stop before someone's faith is shipwrecked by this.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/3/2008 12:37:20 AM
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traisjames
Posts: 22
Joined: 5/27/2008
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quote:
I love the way they keep posting verses that have nothing to do with saying it is OK to go around in the buff. They keep talkin about "how God intended things to be," but the fall kinda messed all that up.
But the verses do have somthing to do with saying its ok to go around in the buff...we are showing that God's opinion was that its ok to be in the nude.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/3/2008 4:20:05 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1698
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
See if I knew for a fact that God was against social nudism then absolutly I would stop, I just see God leaning the other way. After all, he did make is in his image, and he made us nude.
How do you know He's not against it. Seems that you see what you want to see, that you define God in your own terms.
quote:
My beliefs need no validation. However, I do like to avoid persecution for my beliefs, which happens quite often.
Why would you come here, then, and preach the virtues of your lifestyle? Seem to me you are wanting validation. Either that, or you like the persecution. Is it for validation or is it a virtual recruiting tool?
quote:
Some people who claim to be Christians have had the most un-Christian attitudes when discovering my nudism (while others have accepted it, saying effectively "hey, it's not ok for me, but it's ok for you"). I know people who've been kicked out of supposedly Christian groups for their beliefs. My resort's church attempted to join the congress of local churches in its area, and all but two of the local churches refused its entry (of the other two, one was a Disciples of Christ, and one was a Methodist, I believe). I guess 10 were bad and 2 were good.
Scripture does tell us not to associate with those who claim Christ but lead lifestyles that don't reflect Christ. What you seem to be asking is for Christians to accept you as you are and embrace your lifestyle. If this lifestyle is so important to you that you are willing to be isolated from other Christians, the lifestyle is an idol. Your argument does not sound any different than that of the homosexual community.
As for my argument being an association fallacy. If that's what you have to use to justify your lifestyle, so be it.
quote:
Fact: all crime rates are lower at naturist facilities. That includes sex crimes, thefts, assaults, etc. Not because of any attempted coverup of these crimes, but because we try our hardest to prevent them.
LOL. Where is the thief going to hide the stolen item? How is the assault victim going to cover bruises? You keep trying to describe utopia and you keep denying the sin nature of humans. There is no way you can safeguard from all the evils out there. Lack of clothing does not make us more like God.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/3/2008 6:45:16 AM
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reillan
Posts: 40
Joined: 5/28/2008
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I'm not trying to describe utopia. I'm merely trying to describe a better way of living than the present one. And no, I do not have to say "association fallacy" to justify my belief - *you* have to come up with something better to justify yours! Fallacies are called fallacies because they are not logical!
Above this post, I see only claims that nudism is not Godly, yet no one backs up those claims. The argument has been going like this:
Someone: claim about nudism being bad
Me: Argument about why it's not
Someone: new claim about nudism being bad
Me: Argument about why it's not
and so on. Only rarely does anyone take on my arguments, and you know what that tells me? That you're not bothering to approach the issue with an open mind and heart, seeking the Truth that God has for you. Your duty as Christians is to test everything. You cannot approach a chemistry test as you have done, by saying: "That beaker there, I believe it contains an acid. I'm simply going to keep calling it an acid and using it as an acid. It can't possibly be a base because I believe it contains an acid." If you don't test the contents first, you can't know that it is - it could be a base! The Bible provides us with the litmus tests we need.
And your actions do prove harmful, as Bro_Shane illustrated by saying he would have us kicked out of the church. These are real-life, painful consequences of someone who is not bothering to seek God's Will! You know how I know that?
quote:
Friend, if you were a member of my church and we knew you were doing this, you could bet we would come to you and discuss it with love and concern for you and the church. We would give you time to repent and leve this lifestyle. If you refused, we would (with heavy hearts) remove you from the church roll and disfellowship you.
He *NEVER* said that the rest of the church would seek God's Will! They just assume to already know it!
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/3/2008 9:11:30 AM
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Qtman
Posts: 9940
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: reillan
Also, some lovely Bible verses to illustrate my point:
"Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight." - 1 Peter 3:3-4
"I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God." - 1 Timothy 2:9-10
These verses in no way support your position. I have taken the liberty of highlighting a couple of words. Neither verse says anything about not wearing clothes. It says "Fine" clothes. The verse about modesty says "Dress" modestly. If you don't have clothes on how can you be dresses. Nudity in and of itself is a state of undress not dresses.
I have read the Bible through more than once and there is no scripture that encourages, promotes or even condons nudity. You have to go all the way back to the beginning of time to encounter it. Yes Adam and Eve were nude in the beginning. And,
If they had not eaten from the tree of knowledge, and
If they had not realized they were naked, and
If they had not been ashamed, and
If God Himself had not fashioned clothes for them
then we may all be running around in the buff. If a frog had wings it would not be bumping it backside on the ground hopping everywhere it went.
Since the fall of Adam and Eve people have been clothed. When nakedness is mentioned after that is is in a negative,(shamful) way.
If a person wants to run around with their clothes I guess thats a lifestyle they choose. But is is not supported in scripture and I challenge anyone to show me where it is o.k. by scripture.
_____________________________
MERRY CHRISTMAS! For those that do not partake Happy December 25th
Body Piercings
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