quote:

ORIGINAL: Qtman

quote:

ORIGINAL: reillan

Also, some lovely Bible verses to illustrate my point:

"Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight." - 1 Peter 3:3-4

"I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God." - 1 Timothy 2:9-10

These verses in no way support your position. I have taken the liberty of highlighting a couple of words. Neither verse says anything about not wearing clothes. It says "Fine" clothes. The verse about modesty says "Dress" modestly. If you don't have clothes on how can you be dresses. Nudity in and of itself is a state of undress not dresses.

I have read the Bible through more than once and there is no scripture that encourages, promotes or even condons nudity. You have to go all the way back to the beginning of time to encounter it. Yes Adam and Eve were nude in the beginning. And,

If they had not eaten from the tree of knowledge, and
If they had not realized they were naked, and
If they had not been ashamed, and
If God Himself had not fashioned clothes for them

then we may all be running around in the buff. If a frog had wings it would not be bumping it backside on the ground hopping everywhere it went.

Since the fall of Adam and Eve people have been clothed. When nakedness is mentioned after that is is in a negative,(shamful) way.

If a person wants to run around with their clothes I guess thats a lifestyle they choose. But is is not supported in scripture and I challenge anyone to show me where it is o.k. by scripture.

quote:

ORIGINAL: reillan

And yet, I bet every single person here defends their beliefs about Christianity, without intending it to be an attempt at validation.

My beliefs need no validation. However, I do like to avoid persecution for my beliefs, which happens quite often. Some people who claim to be Christians have had the most un-Christian attitudes when discovering my nudism (while others have accepted it, saying effectively "hey, it's not ok for me, but it's ok for you"). I know people who've been kicked out of supposedly Christian groups for their beliefs. My resort's church attempted to join the congress of local churches in its area, and all but two of the local churches refused its entry (of the other two, one was a Disciples of Christ, and one was a Methodist, I believe). I guess 10 were bad and 2 were good.

It's painful to have beliefs persecuted without reason. I'm simply trying to get people to accept nudism as an activity some Christians can do, although I want those people who can't handle themselves not to even think about participating in it. It's not validation - it's acceptance.

Additionally: you could make the same argument about those who are arguing against nudity. Why bothering arguing against it when there are so many posting so adamantly in favor of it? Must be for validation!

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ORIGINAL: rcjames

I keep seeing the phrase "As God intended" being used by the promoters of nudity.

(Gen 3:21) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

So you want to do what God intended then keep your clothes on.

Nuff said.


Thanks
RC

quote:

ORIGINAL: sevenseas
God does not validate your beliefs and neither does the Bible. Walk around downtown nude and see what happens. You don't know what being a Christian is all about. Jesus hung on the cross naked and He did not like it one bit. Your ideas are sinful and have nothing to do with the truth.

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ORIGINAL: reillan

quote:

ORIGINAL: sevenseas
God does not validate your beliefs and neither does the Bible. Walk around downtown nude and see what happens. You don't know what being a Christian is all about. Jesus hung on the cross naked and He did not like it one bit. Your ideas are sinful and have nothing to do with the truth.

All I ask is that you prove it. I can just as easily say that God does not validate your beliefs and neither does the Bible. I don't do that - I actually show you why. The only reason I can't walk around downtown nude is because it's illegal.

Hmmm, guess that means that wearing clothes is actually what the *world* would have us do, so it's the *worldly* thing to do :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sevenseas
You make no sense - in fact, the further along we go with this thing, the more you sound like a hollow tin can.

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ORIGINAL: rcjames

I keep seeing the phrase "As God intended" being used by the promoters of nudity.

(Gen 3:21) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

So you want to do what God intended then keep your clothes on.

quote:

Friend, if you were a member of my church and we knew you were doing this, you could bet we would come to you and discuss it with love and concern for you and the church. We would give you time to repent and leve this lifestyle. If you refused, we would (with heavy hearts) remove you from the church roll and disfellowship you.

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ORIGINAL: reillan

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ORIGINAL: sevenseas
You make no sense - in fact, the further along we go with this thing, the more you sound like a hollow tin can.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about certain other people :)

what, in specific, didn't make sense?

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ORIGINAL: sevenseas

I truly believe this thread is one of those arguments we are
told in the Bible not to even bother to get involved with. You know
the truth - you are seduced and you are trying to seduce others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sevenseas
I truly believe this thread is one of those arguments we are
told in the Bible not to even bother to get involved with. You know
the truth - you are seduced and you are trying to seduce others.

God be merciful to you.

Me? I 'm quitting this thread for the above stated reason. I wish
you all would and stop giving this person (people) the kicks he is getting from our responses.
Notice that my post about Jesus suffering was completely ignored.
No one is going to make sense to this individual - he is just having
fun.
Bye

quote:

ORIGINAL: traisjames

But why would god have given them skins to wear instead of fig leafs? If Eden wad just right to be nude all the time, then maybe the reason for the skins were A, to give them something instead of using a hand or two to keep the leafs on, or B, becasue God knew that outside of Eden they would need that extra protection from the sun and the cold.

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I would stop going to your church without you making me. Chuch is suppose to be a community who gets together to worship God togeather, not to get together to ostrisze those who are different from you.
"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."
—John 6:37

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
Because here we see the first instance of blood being shed to cover sin. Notice they clothed themselves because of the shame, but there is a cost associated with sin. Something or someone must pay. Those animals paid, those sacrificed under the law paid, then - praise God! - Jesus paid it all. It had nothing to do with God just wanting them to be better prepared for the cold.

quote:

I would suggest you read I Corinthians chapter 5, and Galatians chapter 6. Also note this:

Titus 3:10-11 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; [11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

It woul d seem there are people who feel being naked is more important than knowing what God's word says about the church, and what the church is actually supposed to be. Very sad.

Qtman and RC - excellent posts.

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ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
Because here we see the first instance of blood being shed to cover sin.
...
I would suggest you read I Corinthians chapter 5, and Galatians chapter 6.

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ORIGINAL: reillan
It would be 'nuff said if I hadn't already refuted that ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: reillan

Great. So would you say that the clothing described in this text is what people need to wear? Because the word used to describe their clothing is also the word for loincloth! Eve was still topless! So, all you women in the audience, if you want to be a good Christian, get your tops off right now! :p

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And if we were being heretical, you'd absolutely be right. However, your posts absolutely show a very unloving, uncaring nature. They're equivalent to: "We don't agree with you, so we'll throw you out of the herd to be devoured by wolves." Good job. That's more heretical to God's Word than being naked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: reillan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qtman

quote:

ORIGINAL: reillan

Also, some lovely Bible verses to illustrate my point:

"Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight." - 1 Peter 3:3-4

"I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God." - 1 Timothy 2:9-10

These verses in no way support your position. I have taken the liberty of highlighting a couple of words. Neither verse says anything about not wearing clothes. It says "Fine" clothes. The verse about modesty says "Dress" modestly. If you don't have clothes on how can you be dresses. Nudity in and of itself is a state of undress not dresses.

I have read the Bible through more than once and there is no scripture that encourages, promotes or even condons nudity. You have to go all the way back to the beginning of time to encounter it. Yes Adam and Eve were nude in the beginning. And,

If they had not eaten from the tree of knowledge, and
If they had not realized they were naked, and
If they had not been ashamed, and
If God Himself had not fashioned clothes for them

then we may all be running around in the buff. If a frog had wings it would not be bumping it backside on the ground hopping everywhere it went.

Since the fall of Adam and Eve people have been clothed. When nakedness is mentioned after that is is in a negative,(shamful) way.

If a person wants to run around with their clothes I guess thats a lifestyle they choose. But is is not supported in scripture and I challenge anyone to show me where it is o.k. by scripture.

Woohoo, an actual refutation! :)

First, nothing in the Bible encourages, promotes, or even condones the Internet. It also doesn't specifically forbid it, either. And there were people who were nude for the sake of being nude: In Corinth, people regularly went to public baths that were both coed and nude; however, Paul makes no mention of it anywhere in his letters to the Corinthians. Historical records of the first century Church indicate that people were baptized in the nude, yet no mention is made of that being wrong.

Second, my point in the passages I quoted was to show how it's possible to be immodest even while dressed. Note that neither passage says that you must be dressed to be modest, but rather that whatever dress you do have should be modest. You can't be modest in dress if you're wearing fine clothes, which are the rule rather than the exception at most churches.

However, I do have to give you a point on the second quote: I can see where you can interpret that as saying "I want women to be dressed." :) I personally interpret it to say that your modesty comes not from what you wear, but from "the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit" and from "good deeds."

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ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
Since you are intersted in the etymologies of words, the word for "heretic" comes from a word meaning "to choose" or to choose one's own way. You are choosing a way that does not show a regard for scripture, your weaker brothers and sisters, or the lost.

If you were in my church and spreading this, I would ask you to stop and to not engage in the practice any longer. Then, if you refused, we would follow scripture. Matthew 18 is also a good place to read. As to being trown to the wolves, the more you write (and I do not mean this as an insult) the more you show your ignorance of scripture:

I Timothy 1:18-20 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; [19] Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: [20] Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

I Corinthians 5:3-6 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, [4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? - emphasis mine

I pray you will reconsider this. You are not doing yourself, the church, or those around you any good with it.

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ORIGINAL: Qtman
The internet did not exist in those days. Clothes did. However, I am not at all sure God approves of most of the stuff taking place on the internet either.

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ORIGINAL: reillan

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ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
Since you are intersted in the etymologies of words, the word for "heretic" comes from a word meaning "to choose" or to choose one's own way. You are choosing a way that does not show a regard for scripture, your weaker brothers and sisters, or the lost.

If you were in my church and spreading this, I would ask you to stop and to not engage in the practice any longer. Then, if you refused, we would follow scripture. Matthew 18 is also a good place to read. As to being trown to the wolves, the more you write (and I do not mean this as an insult) the more you show your ignorance of scripture:

I Timothy 1:18-20 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; [19] Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: [20] Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

I Corinthians 5:3-6 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, [4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? - emphasis mine

I pray you will reconsider this. You are not doing yourself, the church, or those around you any good with it.

Excuse me, but... have I not all along said that I am concerned about those who might be weakened by my position, that I would not want such people entering into nudism? My way shows regard for my weaker brothers and sisters. Additionally, I came to this decision from careful consultation of the Scripture and through prayer and meditation. Those who have been clothed all their lives never had to do that - they got their positions from their culture. Now, I'm not saying you haven't personally consulted the Scripture, but most who stand against nudism haven't.

And as for ignorance of the Scripture: your first quote has to do with blaspheme, which everyone agrees is wrong, and others who "have put away" "faith, and a good conscience" - I have not done so, so nothing in your first quote shows why I should be thrown out.

Your second quote as to do with a man who was sleeping with his mother or mother-in-law! Everyone can also agree that that is wrong. Blaspheme and incest (and even sleeping with your non-related in-law) have direct laws presented against them in both Old and New Testaments. These are things that are clearly wrong. Yes, if a man is doing something so blatant, he should be first given the opportunity of confessing and repenting, WITH THE HELP OF THE CONGREGATION, who he will need to lean on for strength. I emphasize that because I have yet to see a church actually be so helpful.

But nudism is not something that is mentioned as being wrong. Its definitions in the Bible are vague at best. Any time the Bible is so silent on something, we should consider it as something that we must come to an understanding of through prayer and supplication, seeing where the Holy Spirit leads us. It's on these items that it's possible to be good for one person, and bad for another. It is on these items where Romans 14 comes into play.

And I would not and have not attempted to convince people to become nudists. I am merely only trying to convince you to follow the Scripture as it pertains to things that are not clearly right or wrong.

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ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
I gave examples of discipline within the body, which some believe does not have a basis. Yes, the example from the church in Corinth was due to incest, but there is nothing that says incest is the only reason for discipline within hte body. To try to say "that was about a man sleeping with blah, blah blah...so it doesn't apply to me," show you either really are ignoring it or honestly do not get it. Either way, it's not good. I'll leave this as it is really not on topic, but I would discuss it in another thread.

It's obvious no one is going to convince you that what you do is not a good idea, at best.

I guess the Bible really can be used to justify anything.

quote:

And if we were being heretical, you'd absolutely be right. However, your posts absolutely show a very unloving, uncaring nature. They're equivalent to: "We don't agree with you, so we'll throw you out of the herd to be devoured by wolves." Good job. That's more heretical to God's Word than being naked.