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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 3/30/2008 2:01:46 PM
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Midwest
Posts: 304
Joined: 10/19/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cephyr13
You need to learn what colloquialisms are. They are "saying" from different cultures. ALL cultures have tons of sayings that you would only understand if you grew up in that culture or were immersed in it for years and years. The Bible is FULL of these sayings that we take as literal but are actually just figures of speech.
The Two Witnesses did not have fire coming out of their mouth literally. That's figurative of course. The plagues, also figurative. There's a book you need to get called "Idioms in the Bible Explained and A Key to the Original Gospels" by George M. Lamsa. I don't agree with all of his interpretations for these sayings, because some are clearly not just sayings, but instead, his interpretation of things. However, he says he grew up in a fairly untouched society up till WWII, which stayed in the old traditions and kept much of the old sayings in the Aramaic, and so he knows most of the sayings in the Bible.
"Fire out of their mouths" in other parts of the Bible he says is simply a saying where prophets or God's people will devour the lies of the enemy with the truths of God. So it stands to reason that the raining down plagues is also a figure of speech, and not literal.
Also, look at the fact that they are called two lampstands and two olive trees, and then we find that the only definition for these two things in the Bible says they're the Jewish and Christian churches. In other words, figurative or symbolic. So, if the prophecy starts off symbolic/figurative, what makes you think the rest of it is literal? Logically, you should assume that most of it is figurative.
Sorry, but you need to learn about the "sayings" in the Bible so you can better understand how taking some things literally completely destroys the meaning of some verses, passages and prophecies.
Are the sayings of Jesus just 'colloquialisms' to you? To Many they are Manna from Heaven as it is written. When John said for God so Loved the world, that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believes Him will not perish but will have eternal life.' Was he just to darn 'plain folk' to know any better? For he is the one God chose to give the revelation to, and also to us as revealed truth about what was, what is, and what is yet to come.
For it is written: do not treat prophecies with contempt.
For this is why Jesus said: There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves.
Surely I have misunderstood what you are trying to say.
Are you saying that Cephyr13 is treating the prophecies with contempt?
Are you saying that Cephyr13 will be condemmed at the last day? If so, who made you judge?
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 3/30/2008 8:08:14 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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Greetings! Amen. I did not mean to assert that I was condemning you at all. However, the Apostle tells us that our beliefs should be based on what is written in accordance with Sound Doctrine.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
Surely I have misunderstood what you are trying to say.
Are you saying that Cephyr13 is treating the prophecies with contempt?
Are you saying that Cephyr13 will be condemmed at the last day? If so, who made you judge?
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 3/31/2008 9:04:19 PM
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fallenstar
Posts: 120
Joined: 11/29/2007
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So you are saying Jews will go to hell? Or just that when some of them are left behind, that none of THEM will go to hell, or that ALL Jews will go to hell?
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 4/1/2008 10:14:14 AM
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Sinner-Saint
Posts: 428
Joined: 10/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
So you are saying Jews will go to hell? Or just that when some of them are left behind, that none of THEM will go to hell, or that ALL Jews will go to hell?
How can you ask this question when Paul reaffirms what Isaiah said that all of Israel will be saved?
And what has this to do with the 144,000?
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 4/1/2008 10:39:49 AM
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Cephyr13
Posts: 239
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
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Prophetica has no idea what my prophetic teaching says or what the biblical evidence is to back it up, and therefore, he cannot justifiably say that I am not using sound doctrine to come to my conclusions on prophecy.
That leads one to believe that Prophetica believes that his beliefs are biblically sound, and everyone else's beliefs are incorrect if they do not line up with Prophetica's beliefs. I'm not saying that's true, but I'm just saying that it sounds like that. Is that a fair assessment?
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- Brian
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 4/3/2008 1:17:03 AM
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ChaChynga
Posts: 13
Joined: 4/2/2008
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Those jews who don't believe Jesus are NOT Gods people.
The jews today are the ones Jesus called Sons of the devil... they are Edomites.
Edomites are not Jews, but in name and claim only.
First Fruits come in only one flavor IMHO
BARLEY
Barley First and the Wheat Next.
Interesting if you study that out, I think you'll like.
Chachynga
_____________________________
"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin
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144,000 - 4/12/2008 6:00:20 PM
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hishandmaid
Posts: 9
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Find out where the 144,00 Jews go. Read Jacob's Trouble, by O. Ariel.
< Message edited by hishandmaid -- 4/13/2008 3:01:13 PM >
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http://www.jacobstrouble.com
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YES, the JEWS=144,000! - 4/13/2008 4:30:52 PM
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hishandmaid
Posts: 9
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Jesus is a Jew today. Jesus loves the Jews. Jews will be reinstated in the millenium. This is found in the Old Testament, the prophets. The future.
While we are breathing, God has mercy on us. But all people needs to make a choice before death. No matter what the nation, all will stand before Yeshua in the Judgement.
Jesus came as a Jew, for the Jew first, then the gentiles.
Chachynga said,
quote:
The jews today are the ones Jesus called Sons of the devil... they are Edomites.
This is a flaming statement. I find it is of your own words, "the Jews today...". In my Bible, they called Jesus a devil too. "They" did. There are many "jews today" who are full of God's love and are serving the Lord in Holiness and an upright heart. They will be found in Heaving one day. Love one another. His commandment. For without love, if we give our bodies to be burned, and have not love, it profits us for nothing.
John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Romans 11:16-21
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Heaven-bound Jews believe:
1. That the Bible, composed of both the Old Covenant (Tenach) and the New Covenant (Brit Hadasha) is the only infallible and authoritative Word of God. (II Timothy 3:16)
2. That God is "Echad", as declared in the Shema (Deut. 6:4), "a united one" or a "compound unity" eternally existent in three Persons as expressed in Isaiah 48:16-17.
3. In the Deity of Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus, the Messiah), that He is the "Seed of the Woman" promised by God in Genesis 3:15 and that His virgin birth was to be a sign to Israel of His Messiahship as stated in Isaiah 7:14. (Isaiah 9:6-7)
4. In Messiah's life, His miracles yesterday and today, His vicarious and sacrificial death as our atonement, His bodily resurrection, His appearance thereafter in Jerusalem, His ascension, His personal future establishment of His kingdom on earth.
5. That the only means of being cleansed from sin is by grace, through faith in the shed sacrificial blood of Yeshua HaMashiach and that regeneration by the Spirit of God is absolutely essential for personal salvation. (Leviticus 17:11, Ephesians 2:8)
6. To the present ministry of the Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) by whose indwelling the believer is enabled to live a godly life. (Ezekiel 36:26-27)
7. In the resurrection of both saved and lost, the one to everlasting life and the other to eternal separation from God, the latter being consigned to the state of everlasting punishment. (Daniel 12:2, Matthew 25:46)
8. That the New Covenant body of the Lord is composed of both Jews and Gentiles who have accepted Yeshua HaMashiach as the Promised Redeemer, worshipping together in the House of God. (I Corinthians 12:13, Hebrews 10:25, Ephesians 2:12-14)
9. In the partaking of the communal elements of the matzah (unleavened bread) and the wine, as instituted by Yeshua HaMashiach at His last Passover seder, that the elements are symbolic of the Lord's death and His resurrection. (I Corinthians 11:23-24)
10. In water immersion of believers (Mikvah), as commanded by the scriptures, as an outward sign of an inward salvation experience, symbolizing the death of the old man and the resurrection unto newness of life. (Matthew 3:16, 28:18-20)
~ written by Jews today.
_____________________________
http://www.jacobstrouble.com
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RE: YES, the JEWS=144,000! - 4/17/2008 7:50:14 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1771
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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