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[Poll]
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DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election!
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| Rudi Gulianni |
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| Mitt Romney |
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| John McCain |
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| Mike Huckabee |
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| Other republican |
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| Hillary Clinton |
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| Barack Obama |
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| Ron Paul |
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| Other democrat |
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Total Votes : 33
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(last vote on : 5/6/2008 12:40:39 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/21/2008 5:40:49 PM
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Real_Solitude
Posts: 263
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Schecter18
Yes, it does. And I support it so LONG as it is not embryonic. Because who can tell when the soul enters the body-- it's a life at conception.
Embryonic Stem Cells are the only form of Stem Cells that can take on any cell type. Like I said, Adult Stem Cells can only take on limited cell types, and therefore are potentially less beneficial for us than embryonic Stem Cells are.
Secondarily, I challenge you to prove that the soul A. Exists, B. Enters the 'body' at conception. A blastocyst, which is what we harvest Embryonic Stem Cells from, will occasionally later diverge into two or more embryos. This creates twins, triplets, etc... If a blastocyst has a soul, is a new one added when a second embryo develops? Furthermore, sometimes these multiple cell formations that contain the potential to become two or more people will re-form into a single cell formation. Is one soul then destroyed? Do they merge?
Not to mention that no sort of pain, thought, experience, etc... is able to occur until the fourth week of development when neurons start forming. (A blastocyst is approximately five days old.)
Not to mention that, even if you oppose Human Embryonic Stem Cell research (hES), we could still do experiments with Mouse Embryonic Stem Cells (mES).
I don't mean to be unkind, but if you're going to put forth an idea that could hinder scientific or medical progress, think it out and be able to defend it.
_____________________________
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/21/2008 10:25:52 PM
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stephiroth
Posts: 6002
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If by "hindering" scientific process you mean saving the life of a child, than yeah, I'll proudly hinder it. And maybe I can't prove that the soul enters the body at conception. But you certainly can't prove that it doesn't. Because we don't know, I don't think it's right to simply assume that your idea OR my idea is right, because it might not be.
Your points in order:
1) If you're going to ask me to prove that the soul enters the body at conception, I counter that you prove it does NOT. As for twins, I again stress WE ARE NOT God. Science is not absolute.
2) I never once said I was against mouse embryonic stem cells. If they're part of the creation God gave us to govern, we should use them to benefit us.
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/21/2008 10:27:14 PM
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stephiroth
Posts: 6002
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quote:
ORIGINAL: David-West
No mention of Ron Paul?
Hahaha, I haven't studied much on him yet, so I didn't feel qualified to comment.
_____________________________
I've finally found my one true love...
so what if it has four strings?
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/22/2008 5:37:49 PM
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GuitarHero_J.C
Posts: 652
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Tornado ally Kansas.
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I say Huckabee! He seems so normal and has a great sense of humor. He is not at all like a hard nosed politician and I like that. And I think he has great planes for this country. But I don't agree on some of his plans.
< Message edited by GuitarHero_J.C -- 1/22/2008 5:44:08 PM >
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/22/2008 5:47:01 PM
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ak2007
Posts: 85
Joined: 11/18/2007
From: Midwest
Status: offline
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My favorites in order:
Mike Gravel
Ron Paul
Barack Obama
Dennis Kucinich
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/22/2008 7:07:05 PM
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rebelyell
Posts: 914
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: When I'm Civil War reenacting, VA, normally, AZ
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ak2007
Barack Obama
i would never vote for him.
_____________________________
Guns don't kill people. Abortion doctors kill people.
If ye ain't mor keerful, ah'll be a aimin' this 'ere same gun at ye!
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/22/2008 7:25:01 PM
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ak2007
Posts: 85
Joined: 11/18/2007
From: Midwest
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Why him, specifically?
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/22/2008 7:39:15 PM
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rebelyell
Posts: 914
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From: When I'm Civil War reenacting, VA, normally, AZ
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for many reasons. he will not honor our country's flag. he is for more gun control. he is for this deadly system of universal health care that may lead to socialism. yeah, he looks good and sounds good, but he is a loser who should not get the high office of President of the United States.
_____________________________
Guns don't kill people. Abortion doctors kill people.
If ye ain't mor keerful, ah'll be a aimin' this 'ere same gun at ye!
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/22/2008 7:40:45 PM
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ak2007
Posts: 85
Joined: 11/18/2007
From: Midwest
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OK, I was just curious why you singled him out when Kucinich and Gravel are arguably more left-wing than Obama.
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/22/2008 7:46:47 PM
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rebelyell
Posts: 914
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: When I'm Civil War reenacting, VA, normally, AZ
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its just ive never heard of them.
_____________________________
Guns don't kill people. Abortion doctors kill people.
If ye ain't mor keerful, ah'll be a aimin' this 'ere same gun at ye!
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/23/2008 1:48:52 PM
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stephiroth
Posts: 6002
Joined: 4/4/2007
From: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GuitarHero_J.C
I say Huckabee! He seems so normal and has a great sense of humor. He is not at all like a hard nosed politician and I like that. And I think he has great planes for this country. But I don't agree on some of his plans.
The thing with Huckabee is, ya, he's a great, wonderful guy and a fantastically conservative candidate. But he's not Presidential material-- we need someone occasionally "hard-nosed" to be the firm leader of the free world. I support Fred Thompson AND Huckabee, but I'm voting for John McCain because of his leadership abilities. In this time of crisis, we need someone who can stand up for our nation, even though I don't completely agree with all of his standards.
JMO.
_____________________________
I've finally found my one true love...
so what if it has four strings?
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/24/2008 2:10:45 AM
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David-West
Posts: 114
Joined: 3/11/2007
From: The State of Jefferson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ak2007
My favorites in order:
Mike Gravel
Ron Paul
Barack Obama
Dennis Kucinich
Why is Ron Paul on your list? You do realize that he is basically the polar opposite of the other the other candidates on your list, right? About the only thing he has in common with Gravel, Obama, and Kucinich is that he is against the Iraq war. Other than that, they have absolutely NOTHING in common. I mean we're talking about an ardent libertarian and three socialists here. Two completely opposing view points.
I ask you this: do you want a smaller or a larger federal government?
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/24/2008 5:39:29 PM
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GuitarHero_J.C
Posts: 652
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Tornado ally Kansas.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Schecter18
quote:
ORIGINAL: GuitarHero_J.C
I say Huckabee! He seems so normal and has a great sense of humor. He is not at all like a hard nosed politician and I like that. And I think he has great planes for this country. But I don't agree on some of his plans.
The thing with Huckabee is, ya, he's a great, wonderful guy and a fantastically conservative candidate. But he's not Presidential material-- we need someone occasionally "hard-nosed" to be the firm leader of the free world. I support Fred Thompson AND Huckabee, but I'm voting for John McCain because of his leadership abilities. In this time of crisis, we need someone who can stand up for our nation, even though I don't completely agree with all of his standards.
JMO.
I'll be seven months to young to vote this year so I guess it dose not make much difference. Which bums me out since this is a really important election.
McCain is my second chose.
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/24/2008 7:05:43 PM
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Real_Solitude
Posts: 263
Joined: 5/9/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Schecter18
If by "hindering" scientific process you mean saving the life of a child, than yeah, I'll proudly hinder it. And maybe I can't prove that the soul enters the body at conception. But you certainly can't prove that it doesn't. Because we don't know, I don't think it's right to simply assume that your idea OR my idea is right, because it might not be.
Hindering Stem Cell research will save no children. Completely stopping hES research this second wouldn't save a single potential human being. First, it's important to note that 50% of human conceptions are believed to end in spontaneous abortion, usually without the woman even realizing that she was pregnant. Furthermore, 20% of all recognized pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion. This means that any give embryo, at conception, is unlikely to survive anyways. In this regard, hES seeks to keep the children (and adults) that did live, alive. hES have the potential to cure almost every known human disease.
However, the above statistics are irrelevant anyways. Most hES research is done from existing cell lines, and therefore the blastocyst has long-since been destroyed. Personally, I believe that there is no justifiable reason to inhibit hES research.
1)You can't ask me to prove a negative! It's impossible to prove a negative. That's like me asking you to prove that there's not an invisible, weightless kangaroo jumping on your head. You can't do it. The burden of proof lies with the person making the positive claim. If I claim there's an invisible, weightless kangaroo on your head, it's my job to prove it, not yours to disprove it. If you claim that a soul exists in a collection of 150 cells, then it's your job to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that this is true. If you can not, then you have no justification for your position, nor your hindrance of progress.
2)According to the original Hebrew, God gave us creation to take care of. If you're against hES research on Biblical grounds, then you should also be against mES research on the same grounds.
_____________________________
"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/24/2008 9:43:50 PM
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WillSK
Posts: 54
Joined: 1/3/2008
From: Somewere between here and there
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GuitarHero_J.C
I say Huckabee! He seems so normal and has a great sense of humor. He is not at all like a hard nosed politician and I like that. And I think he has great planes for this country. But I don't agree on some of his plans.
he also has Chuck Norris on his side...or so ive been told...but yup hes also a Christian if i could vote he would have mine
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/29/2008 12:10:46 PM
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ak2007
Posts: 85
Joined: 11/18/2007
From: Midwest
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: David-West
Why is Ron Paul on your list? You do realize that he is basically the polar opposite of the other the other candidates on your list, right? About the only thing he has in common with Gravel, Obama, and Kucinich is that he is against the Iraq war.
Well, I'm a single-issue voter. I want someone who is against the Iraq war and all similar misadventures and, preferably, who sees through the whole fog of American jingoism. Gravel is the most consistent in that department, Paul the second most consistent. Kucinich probably belongs in third place but he's so far out with protectionism that I gave Obama third place.
quote:
Other than that, they have absolutely NOTHING in common. I mean we're talking about an ardent libertarian and three socialists here. Two completely opposing view points.
I disagree. Paul is really an ardent retro-federalist, not a libertarian. He places state sovereignty above individual rights and would like to go back to no federal civil rights enforcement, a view I like less than the libertarian one. Still, he's second best on the war. The other three are not "socialist" in any meaningful sense of the word. Social-democratic in the case of Gravel and Kucinich, liberal in the case of Obama. I haven't heard any of them demanding that the railroads be nationalized. All three want the government to guarantee health care in some fashion. Maybe that's a good idea, maybe it isn't, or, more likely, maybe it's good for some Americans and not others. In either case, it's not a dealbreaker for me.
quote:
I ask you this: do you want a smaller or a larger federal government?
I can live with either one, but what I really want is a less sociopathic federal government.
< Message edited by ak2007 -- 1/29/2008 2:36:07 PM >
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/29/2008 1:52:36 PM
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rebelyell
Posts: 914
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: When I'm Civil War reenacting, VA, normally, AZ
Status: offline
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why is the war so evil?
_____________________________
Guns don't kill people. Abortion doctors kill people.
If ye ain't mor keerful, ah'll be a aimin' this 'ere same gun at ye!
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/29/2008 2:17:50 PM
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ak2007
Posts: 85
Joined: 11/18/2007
From: Midwest
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rebelyell
why is the war so evil?
Because life is better than death, in the general sense. Because we were/are the aggressors in it, in the specific sense.
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/29/2008 3:08:38 PM
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rebelyell
Posts: 914
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: When I'm Civil War reenacting, VA, normally, AZ
Status: offline
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i know someone who sees it very much like you see it. i am not totally sure which view to believe, but i am more inclined for th pro war side. if we pull back all our troops, what are we gonna do to protect ourselves from the terrorists? build a wall?
_____________________________
Guns don't kill people. Abortion doctors kill people.
If ye ain't mor keerful, ah'll be a aimin' this 'ere same gun at ye!
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 1/29/2008 4:32:00 PM
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ak2007
Posts: 85
Joined: 11/18/2007
From: Midwest
Status: offline
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1. Not bullying other nations tends to substantially decrease the number of terrorists. You may have noticed that Switzerland has no terror problem. New Zealand has no terror problem. Botswana has no terror problem. Etc....
If Switzerland invaded Liechtenstein for no good reason, you'd probably see some Liechtensteinians turning to terrorism.
2. There are two approaches to foreign policy: (1) make as few enemies as possible or (2) make a lot of enemies and kill them before they can get you. We've tried (2) for about the last century, and we saw on 9/11 how well that worked out for us. I say we give (1) a try now.
quote:
if we pull back all our troops, what are we gonna do to protect ourselves from the terrorists?
3. Just withdrawing from Iraq is not sufficient, you are right. We have to get back to a foreign policy of neutrality. That will dry up the reservoirs of anti-American hatred that gets recruits for maniacal terrorists. There will always be individual crackpots like bin Laden around, but a neutral, humble foreign policy (which George W. Bush promised in 2000 we'd have if we elected him) would deprive him of propaganda to recruit more terrorists. Taking one side in the Israeli-Arab conflict for 50 years, and then invading Iraq was like giving al-Qaeda free advertising, and even gave our allies less of an inducement to help us.
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 2/7/2008 12:23:51 PM
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ShutterBox
Posts: 1024
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I'm more concerned about a leader that will do the job right and to the best of his ability, not preach. We need a man in the white house who isn't afraid to offend a few people.
what we need:
-close abortion clinics
-close our borders
-deny amnesty
-secure our 2nd amendment
-have a long term plan for the future of our country and the war that we are unfortunately still fighting
-smarter Health care system
-trash welfare and stop pacifying the issue that Americans have just become too lazy to work
-fix our tax system because right now, if it weren't for a small clause, there wouldn't be the taxes that there are right now.
there are more issues other then those...
I hope everyone is doing their research........
< Message edited by xxrock_musicxx -- 2/7/2008 7:15:51 PM >
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 2/8/2008 12:02:34 AM
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rebelyell
Posts: 914
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: When I'm Civil War reenacting, VA, normally, AZ
Status: offline
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hey rock music person, i pretty much agree with you, except i want a clarification. about the smarter health care, i assume you arent talking about mrs clinton's "smarter health care." that stupid idiot would wash our nation down the drain, and turn us all into socialists.
_____________________________
Guns don't kill people. Abortion doctors kill people.
If ye ain't mor keerful, ah'll be a aimin' this 'ere same gun at ye!
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 2/8/2008 7:51:33 PM
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ShutterBox
Posts: 1024
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rebelyell
hey rock music person, i pretty much agree with you, except i want a clarification. about the smarter health care, i assume you arent talking about mrs clinton's "smarter health care." that stupid idiot would wash our nation down the drain, and turn us all into socialists.
no way.. Hilary Clinton spells doom for us all.
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The Picture Muse
Adopted Sibs:
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RE: DUn-dun-dun! 2008 Election! - 2/11/2008 4:30:17 PM
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stephiroth
Posts: 6002
Joined: 4/4/2007
From: offline
Status: offline
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Hillary Clinton IS Doom.
And not the awesome, heroic Deltora Quest Doom, either. 
_____________________________
I've finally found my one true love...
so what if it has four strings?
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