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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 3/5/2008 8:49:28 AM
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rlj
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It's always good to talk, especially when its Christians who can disagree on something without getting contentious.
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You are quoting me out of context. You said that there are more pressing things to worry about other than "games", like drugs, and that is why I answered that drugs, one of your "more pressing" matters, can be viewed as sorcery/witchcraft.
In the context of the OP I was seperating the two. I did a quick study using the Crosswalk Commentaries and the definition of the word for use in the NT was always the witchcraft meaning. The Hebrew word didn't have a dual meaning. That was something I learned years ago and forgot.
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If you mean meandering along until you finally "get it", then perhaps that is relevant, but what this verse in context means is the believers responsability for active pursuit of obedience in the process of santification, with an attitude of heathly fear of offending God and a righteous awe and respect for Him. John MacArthur
I don't believe the meandering part, if we're meandering then we're not on the straight and narrow. The Word says that the Lord will make the way straight.(Proverbs 3:6) My belief as I was taught and I haven't seen reason to change from it much was everything we do whether it is entertainment, what job we do, how we treat people should be taken with a degree of seriousness even if outwardly we are humourous about things. So I don't watch or play anything without considering it first.
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This is called Moral relativism. This is dangerous ground that we are on. We are NOT the deciding factors in what is right and what is wrong.
This is kind of touchy. I believe that ourselves in conjunction with the Holy Spirit have to find some things for ourselves. When deciding what is right and wrong for example there is the Word. Then there are the things that we are taught and these have to line up with the Word. Then there are things that aren't in the Word like Sports. There's nothing wrong with watching Sports other than the time sink factor. However let's say I go back to the days when I'd watch every Cavs game, Buckeyes game, every Bluejackets game, every Steeler game I'm convinced my the Spirit would convict me for it. Now let's say I'm addicted to this and it becomes an idol. The response should be to do away with the idol. Now the Spirit may (I can't say how He works exactly) but may impress it on me to lay that down and get away from that kind of sports addiction. Now for me spending time watching those things could very well be wrong for you it is not. The Word doesn't say one way or the other. If I watch sports I'm not doing anything biblically wrong, if I don't watch sports I'm not doing anything biblically wrong. Laying them down on the basis that I believe that is what the Spirit would want me to do would then make watching them the wrong thing.
I don't want to go the Moral Relativism route either but I do believe there is a certain degree of relativism involved in many decisions though it shouldn't be the most important thing. Slavery disgusts me today and it's wrong, yet in the Apostle Paul's time it was accepted and he never admonished abolition of slaves he encouraged slaves to work even harder.
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 3/5/2008 9:45:32 AM
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earthless
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What server are you guys on?
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 3/5/2008 3:21:34 PM
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car2ner
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quote:
What server are you guys on?
HI earthless... we can chat about servers in the Humor and Games folder. It is a shame that none of us seem to be on the same server.
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"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 6/19/2008 11:18:48 PM
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GothicXian
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Hello all; I read the little linked article that the OP posted, I play the RPG Word of Darkness (I've only played the demo for Vampire: The Requiem, but I can tell you from personally experience) that this description of the game:
"The Vampire Games – is another role playing game that introduces the players to the world of vampires. This includes the live action role playing games such as Vampire: The Masquerade and Vampire: the Requiem.
As you might imagine, these games involve dark and macabre situations, including drinking blood and killing innocent people. The vampires are predators on humans and described as killing machines who struggle with their baser instincts. The vampires also have certain powers such as telepathy, psychic projection, and bodily possession.
Players often form clubs in order to play the game. Some players even imitate vampires in real life by wearing razor-sharp artificial fangs. The popularity of these games have spawned others: Werewolf: The Forsaken, Mage: The Awakening, and Sword & Sorcery."
There are some rather glaring inaccuracies about the game (V:TR) and I'll list them:
1. Players are HIGHLY discouraged from killing innocent people, even when a vampire needs blood your character should not drain the person dry of blood (thereby killing him or her) it brings you closer to "the beast" (a vampires basic instinct to hunt and kill for blood).
2. Vampires do gain powers but these are typically used to temporarily increase your speed or strength.
3. The author had no reason to make mention of "Clubs" that practice vampirism, yes White Wolf (the publishing company) publishes "The Mind's Eye Theatre" (a series of books used for LARPing but I don't think any sane LARPers would actually wear vampire fangs just for a LARP but then again I could be wrong :P)
4. The game (World of Darkness as well as its supplements emphasis story over combat and morality over choiceless actions.) I personally have never played an RPG that emphasised on story than combat. They're quite fun imo and most importantly if you don't like something in a RP than don't use it; a RP session is your ideas and not a strict linear plot. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents in to this topic.
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 6/20/2008 5:35:38 AM
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car2ner
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I knew an actor who wore imitation vampire fangs (removable) for getting a rise out of people. Thanks for the info on the vampire game.
IMHO I wouldn't play. I am just not comfortable with glamorizing vampires. I occassionally play a "bad guy" but it is usually one that is only bad because the other faction has differing political views. If the story line makes them too angsty or arrogant or "evil" it just isn't fun for me.
to twist a very old commercial phrase, "I am not a real bad guy. I just play one in a game".
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"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 6/20/2008 12:55:00 PM
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GothicXian
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Well that's the thing, morality (within the game a player chooses 1 virtues and 1 vice, both determine the outline of how a character acts and what actions can be taken to better or worsen a character's personality), second humanity plays a large role (not just within Vampire but within all of the WoD supplements, if you don't want to play as a vampire, I don't; I play solely as a human but that's besides the point) humanity and weather or not you gain or loose it all depends on your actions when playing. That is why I enjoy the game so much; choices and consequence.
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 6/20/2008 1:05:42 PM
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rnershigh
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For most people, I don't see a problem.
Most people view video games as only a means of entertainment and harmless.
Maybe some will have a hard time distinguishing reality from a video game and maybe they shouldn't play.
But I don't think it's wrong to play rpg games.
I've played games like Dungeon Siege, Final Fantasy, and Balder's gate and I knew they were just games.
Fun to play, but only a video game.
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O Death! where is thy Sting?
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 6/20/2008 3:08:45 PM
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GothicXian
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That's another stigma is that the majority of Christians have with RPGs; is that they assume most RPGers have some problem discerning reality from fantasy; which is far from the truth then they go into explinations of what RPGs are bad; yet the irony in this (most explinations from Christians) is that they're essentially describing method acting by which an actor gets into character quite thoroughly and stays in character even while off camera. I just find it funny how Christians can at times forsake common sense and logic simply for the statisfaction being right, and others wrong. Again my opinion.
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/6/2008 6:12:30 PM
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GothicXian
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I'm coming back to this topic to give you all (who would care to listen), a little summary of what Vampire: The Requiem is all about; I admit I'm probably not going to get too many high marks for this or even "thank you's" lol but that's not why I do it; I do it to give a game judged rather unfairly through the eyes of someone who's never played the game; just a bit more insight into it (by the way I recently bought the supplement book the other day anyway :P) and this little synopsis was found just a few pages inward and is present on the website's summary for the game too. It reads thusly: "What Is Vampire: The Requiem?
Vampires: blood-drinking creatures of the night. Horrors born of darkness, whose sole purpose in life - unlife, actually - is to slake their unholy thirst on the blood of the living. Without doubt, vampires are monsters.
Monsters, though, need not always be unthinking, unfeeling terrors empty of remorse, or even compassion or other human traits. Indeed, vampires can exceed their deathless curse, themselves becoming antiheroes or even heroes.
Then again, some vampires truly remain monsters.
This is the purpose of Vampire: The Requiem. It is a Modern Gothic Storytelling game, a roleplaying game that allows you to build chronicles that explore morality through the metaphor of vampirism. In Vampire, you “play the monster,” and what you do as that monster both makes for an interesting story and might even teach you a little about your own values and those of your fellows."
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/6/2008 6:49:59 PM
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Zhi
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Yeah.
If people are really learning things from these RPGs (which, frankly, almost no-one actually ROLEPLAYS at, people are far more interested in getting through the game and/or levelling their characters) about the occult and witchcraft, it's mostly that the occult and/or witchcraft is repetitive, gets boring, involves stuff you can't find in real life, and you should probably hit "save" as often as possible.
Hee.
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/6/2008 6:55:56 PM
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GothicXian
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Well not everyone I know who roleplays is obsessed with powergaming, most actually DO roleplay rather than "rollplays"; while its just a game the emphasis is on morality and the consequences of choice and action. While all RPGs offer some form of that; the RPG I specifically play drives this home with like I said in an earlier post; a demphasis on combat and one on roleplaying their character.
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/6/2008 7:02:03 PM
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Zhi
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I'm talking specifically about online roleplaying games and to some extent single players, on the computer.
The server doesn't care if you go to the effort of roleplaying. If you want to actually succeed in game terms, you need to stop trading stories around the table of the local inn and get out there and collect your 12 salamandar livers or what have you.
I'm on a WoW roleplaying server and I would be very surprised if 5% of the population, even on a server dedicated specifically to roleplaying, actually did any roleplaying whatsoever, much less on a constant basis. (Do I? No. I went to the server because people tend to be slightly more mature on "roleplay" servers than "regular" servers.)
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/6/2008 7:14:19 PM
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GothicXian
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Oh lol well I'm talking about pen and paper RPGs or tabletop RPGs lol :P
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/7/2008 10:55:57 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2771
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I do think there is a differance in table topping, LARPing and MMORPGing.
I have a toon on a role-playing server (silverhand)but I don't really role-play. That is my secondary server. On my main I am too busy trying to find the elusive huge emeralds to skill up my jewel crafting to earn money to buy a faster griffin, etc. And gain honor to get Phat Lewtz (better gear to survive quests and battles, etc). When we "role" play it is usually flirting with my husband.
Thanks for the game review. Vampires doesn't appeal to me in the least.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/7/2008 11:18:20 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
Vampires doesn't appeal to me in the least.
Me neither.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/7/2008 11:19:01 AM
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GothicXian
Posts: 29
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Yeah, after reading the OP's post I remembered why I came here in the first place LOL to give my take on WoW (I used to play too) there's no "occultic" things within the game at all; its all fantsy magic and lightning bolts from your finger tips etc etc. I admit though I never play as magic-inclined characters though (thiefs and rogues for me). In anycase; the only problem with WoW and ANYTHING for that matter is that you let it take over oter aspects of your life and Walk with God, (Some might accuse RPGs solely, in whatever format they come in but in all honesty anything can take the place of God if you let it). That's really the only concern you should have.
< Message edited by GothicXian -- 8/7/2008 11:25:16 AM >
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/10/2008 8:56:58 PM
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keeperofpeace
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Any true christian knows that playing with these games that glorify witchcraft or the occult only opens doors to demonic activity in your life.. If playing these games have you fantasizing about witchcraft or the occult it is not healthy if your attempting to grow and have a true spiritual walk with God.
Spiritual warfare is the battlefield of the mind. And if Satan can control your thoughts then he has control of your body and your actions... Stay away from these things and get into the word of God.
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/10/2008 10:38:32 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1328
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quote:
Any true christian knows that playing with these games that glorify witchcraft or the occult only opens doors to demonic activity in your life.. If playing these games have you fantasizing about witchcraft or the occult it is not healthy if your attempting to grow and have a true spiritual walk with God.
Spiritual warfare is the battlefield of the mind. And if Satan can control your thoughts then he has control of your body and your actions... Stay away from these things and get into the word of God.
I have not fantasized about witchcraft or the occult from playing these games, any more than I have fantasized about munching large quantities of pills from playing Pacman or fantasized about stomping defenseless mushrooms to death in the supermarket from playing Mario Bros. Primarily because playing these games has no real connection to actual occult or witchcraft in most cases. You push a button. Something happens. There is no real life equivalency to that available.
On the other hand, I have talked a young man out of suicide and gotten him help. I have witnessed to many people, people who I would never have a chance to even talk to otherwise. I think that's a good thing.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/11/2008 8:36:50 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2771
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The biggest challenge in MMORPG is not witchcraft but basic human nature. There are folks who think that because they are hidden behind a computer, that they can be rude and crude. There are those who think that they know everything and when you don't play the game the way they like, they get angry and lash out. There are those who are impatient when they don't win right away, don't want to put effort into the game and give-up leaving the rest of the team without support. There are those who flirt when they shouldn't. There are those who take a prize that might have been suited to another player. There are those who take the prize and leave without finishing the task at hand and the team "wipes", everyone dies.
Then again, there are folks who share prizes that they have gotten and don't need. There are those who stop what they are doing and lend a hand to another to finish a task. There are those who give good advice when needed. There are those who just like to banter and chat keeping family in mind. There are teams built, puzzles solved, leadership skills practiced, persistance rewarded, etc.
BUT if any game or hobby takes the place of spending time with family in RL (real life) and spending time with God, then it has to be given up.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/11/2008 8:41:50 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2771
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From: just north of Florida
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quote:
Spiritual warfare is the battlefield of the mind. And if Satan can control your thoughts then he has control of your body and your actions... Stay away from these things and get into the word of God.
Spritual warfare is much more subtle. Satan would rather snag us in the small, normal sins that we don't really pay attention to. The first step down a slippery road often appears harmless. Few would take that first step if they knew where it would lead. That first step could be a game but probably not for witchcraft. If someone were interested in witchcraft they might look for it in gaming but I don't think gaming would lead anyone to witchcraft.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: High Tech Witchcraft? - 8/11/2008 10:44:21 PM
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GothicXian
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Okay how do they "glorify" witchcraft or the occult? Second, is your definition of witchcraft lighting bolts from the tips of your fingers?
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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