RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages During Church Services?
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 4/26/2008 5:39:19 PM
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f22mzr
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Ill put it this way. What would you do if the one morning when that one person who is clearly and openly an unbeliever stumbled into church, soda in hand, kids with poptarts.
Will you turn them away? Are the pews sanctity and cleanliness more important than than that persons presence in church that day bringing them one step closer to being saved? Hmm. I'd like to think I'd be more than happy to sit on a stained pew, if it meant the stain came from a persons soul having been cleansed :P
Harsh, extreme, unlikely? Of course. So was Christ's message. Break the mold. Take your water. The more christians do to accomodate "normal" everyday people and there habits, the more of the world we can win to Christ, its that simple. That also goes for pursuing christains who dont come to church in the first place. You go ahead and run them off for small things, see how much "grain" you harvest over time.
Paul said it this way, and I think it's quite the same: (severely transliterated lol)
Want to save Americans who drink sodas? Drink sodas in church, and let them see you do it.
Of course, be discrete, use common sense, but come on.. its a drink, not a DVD player playing music videos. If someone stopped me, usher or not...
If God doesnt want hot chocolate or drinks in his house, He'll find a way to tell you. (See scripture on the abuse of communion/Lord's Supper and deduct some principles. You do that, I think you'll get the right way.
God Bless.
~TE
< Message edited by f22mzr -- 4/26/2008 5:45:49 PM >
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 4/26/2008 11:39:45 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
What would you do if the one morning when that one person who is clearly and openly an unbeliever stumbled into church, soda in hand, kids with poptarts.
I have seen "worse" walk through the doors.
My position isn't one of rule setting but of personal introspection. My question is....can you go an hour without meeting your flesh and to put all that you are...mind....body...and spirit...to worship God?
If not....that is between you, God and your walk.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 4/26/2008 11:43:38 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Do I get to write something, even though I had a lot of fun with multiple posts of other "Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages During Church Services?" threads?
I love this! Some subjects get worn out upon the second start for me, but this subject never does!
I get the idea that our services would drive many of you cRazY with all the drinking, eating, and all children in the services, not off in other rooms.
Do I attend a higher-holiness-quality place of worship? Definitely!
Am I holier that all of you? Most absolutely definitely!
Har-har-har-har-ho-ho-ho-ho-ha-ha-hee-hee-hee!
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 4/26/2008 11:55:09 PM
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SonInMe1
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lol
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 4/30/2008 5:36:27 AM
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mumoftheyear
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if i had been unable to have a drink during the service i would have had nearly a year when i would have been unable to go to church. At that time I became dehydrated very quickly and would have only got half way throught the a servie without getting a migrain.
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 4/30/2008 10:49:40 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I would suggest that most of us who do have our drinks in the meeting place do so not because we are being biligerant or greedy or any other negative idea. We do it out of necessity.
When I attend my place of worship, it is common and expected of all of us. However, when I must visit other churches, it can be really intimidating for those of us with physical disabilities that cause extreme or constant thirst. I find myself sneaking my drinks in, hiding them, etc.
Some of the churches truly are very lovely, and I understand not wanting spills. I understand the desire to try to maintain a holy place. But some churches treat people with disabilities like second class citizens they may choose to tolerate or not tolerate, like the movies that serve only sugary and/or unhealthy drinks and try to demand that we drink them, drink nothing, or stay home.
Would you also kick out the blind with their guide dogs? Would you ban those with hearing aids? With glasses?
These thirst problems are real problems. I don't know what mumoftheyear's response is to not having a drink at hand, but mine is that I start coughing uncontrollably, to the point of tears streaming down my face, while I can't catch my breath. Now, that would be far more disturbing than the frustrating public cell phone ring!
So should I just stay home, or may I bring a drink?
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 4/30/2008 10:59:18 AM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
When I attend my place of worship, it is common and expected of all of us. However, when I must visit other churches, it can be really intimidating for those of us with physical disabilities that cause extreme or constant thirst. I find myself sneaking my drinks in, hiding them, etc. And that's a shame.quote:
Some of the churches truly are very lovely, and I understand not wanting spills. I understand the desire to try to maintain a holy place. But why is it a holy place only if there are no spills? That mentality does not make sense to me. It's almost as if people are saying, "Cleanliness is next to Godliness". I've heard people say that with the reverence as though it were in the bible. It's not.quote:
But some churches treat people with disabilities like second class citizens they may choose to tolerate or not tolerate, like the movies that serve only sugary and/or unhealthy drinks and try to demand that we drink them, drink nothing, or stay home. Again, a crying shame.quote:
Would you also kick out the blind with their guide dogs? Would you ban those with hearing aids? With glasses?
These thirst problems are real problems. I don't know what mumoftheyear's response is to not having a drink at hand, but mine is that I start coughing uncontrollably, to the point of tears streaming down my face, while I can't catch my breath. Now, that would be far more disturbing than the frustrating public cell phone ring!
So should I just stay home, or may I bring a drink?
My pastor prefers that people don't bring drinks into the sanctuary, but he doesn't go up to people and say, "Get that drink out of here," when it is done. We've had this very discussion, and he agrees that loving the person is more important than keeping the sanctuary clean. After all, the sanctuary can be cleaned on Monday. Many times we only get one chance to show God's love, and if we're caught up over a drink in the sanctuary, we can miss it so easily.
_____________________________
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 4/30/2008 10:07:07 PM
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SonInMe1
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At least from my point of view, I will restate...again. This isn't about rules. Its not about denying those who truly need hydration for medical reasons. Its about our focus. Its about what a fast truly is. Its about respect for God and your own personal conviction of what that is.
I know people don't read the entire thread esspecially if it is a long one like this...I don't either, so I just wanted to restate this, to me, core ideal.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 4/30/2008 10:19:10 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
At least from my point of view, I will restate...again. This isn't about rules. Its not about denying those who truly need hydration for medical reasons. Its about our focus. Its about what a fast truly is. Its about respect for God and your own personal conviction of what that is.
I know people don't read the entire thread esspecially if it is a long one like this...I don't either, so I just wanted to restate this, to me, core ideal.
The core ideal to me is that if your focus is on God, someone having a bottle of water next to you won't distract you. If it distracts you, your focus couldn't be on God completely.
_____________________________
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/1/2008 8:09:41 AM
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SonInMe1
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...and my point is, can't you just focus totally on God for an hour without a bottle of water?
I think most can. Its not about distraction. I was saved in a pentacostal church. Distractions don't bother me at all. This is more of a heart issue.
Think of the sermons Paul gave. They were long enough that someone fell asleep and fell out a window.
Think of Jesus' sermon where He worried about the people not having anything to eat...all day....
and all we have is a few mintues a week.
Also, what is a fast to you? What is accomplished by fasting? Isn't fasting putting aside the carnal for focus on the spiritual? There is much power in that kind of focus/commitment. Some demons cannot even be cast out unless there is fasting.
I've been going to church for 12+ years now and have never even considered taking a drink into the sanctuary. I can actually go a few minutes without thinking of my body.
I am not saying its right or wrong to do....I just totally do not understand why anyone would do it....outside the medical need.
Totally blows me away.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/1/2008 1:54:00 PM
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WalkingwithHim2
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What is up with the constant ref to fasting!?
_____________________________
Jesus saves the soul not necessarily the brain
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/1/2008 1:57:40 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
...and my point is, can't you just focus totally on God for an hour without a bottle of water?
I think most can. Its not about distraction. I was saved in a pentacostal church. Distractions don't bother me at all. This is more of a heart issue.
Think of the sermons Paul gave. They were long enough that someone fell asleep and fell out a window.
Think of Jesus' sermon where He worried about the people not having anything to eat...all day....
and all we have is a few mintues a week.
Also, what is a fast to you? What is accomplished by fasting? Isn't fasting putting aside the carnal for focus on the spiritual? There is much power in that kind of focus/commitment. Some demons cannot even be cast out unless there is fasting.
I've been going to church for 12+ years now and have never even considered taking a drink into the sanctuary. I can actually go a few minutes without thinking of my body.
I am not saying its right or wrong to do....I just totally do not understand why anyone would do it....outside the medical need.
Totally blows me away.
I agree with your points, but I don't see what the problem is. I think it is better for someone to take a drink to church, rather than not go because they can't have it. I do agree that we should most definitely be able to put aside our carnality for an hour.
I understand some people even look at it as being disrespectful.
I personally get a lot of sore throats, and have taken halls with me, but never a drink.
But as long as the person is not drawing attention to himself by gulping and burping or having to get up and go to the bathroom, I don't think it is a big deal. I wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't stop someone else from doing it.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/1/2008 3:41:41 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Thank you, Armydude, for your kind way of understanding the problem. In thinking back about this, really, while the churches can embarrass one, and people do stare in an apparent attempt to intimidate, it is the really the theaters that are absolutely rude about it.
_____________________
SonInMe1,
You are obviously very curious about people who drink, because you find it disruptive, irritating, etc. You lightly equate that time with a time of fasting before the L-rd. I understand those things -- to a point. However, let me throw a few things out there.
Some services are a scant one hour long, but service time can be far longer. Ours happen to be from approximately 10:30 until approximately 1:45, and that is shorter than some. It is understood and even expected that people will have food and/or drinks during the service, and it is followed by lunch all together then by studying and other activities all afternoon, supper, then a final service in the evening. There are drinks and food everywhere all the time.
Some services are very formal, with low lighting, choral singing, orchestras, words spoken in low tones, and/or other ideas that demand a formal setting and actions much like that of a formal classical concert. Other services are more atuned to being laid-back, informal, jeans-and-t-shirt services. And there are those in between. I am sure that the people respond appropriately for each setting, and we also choose according to our preferences.
When it comes to Paul "preaching," preaching is a much newer idea -- more of an idea for churches, after churches were invented. Paul's setting was in the evening in a house, after the Sabbath services had ended in the synagogues and the Temple, and it was already considered the first day of the week. He wasn't preaching but teaching in an informal setting. People were likely milling about, eating, drinking, etc., as was customary on the evening after the Sabbath. That is just the way things were done then. The formalities were left in the synagogues (when it was called for) and the Temple. The synagogues were also not used strictly as a formal setting either. There were many times of eating and drinking there as well.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 5/1/2008 3:49:38 PM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/1/2008 6:08:26 PM
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armydude
Posts: 14519
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
...and my point is, can't you just focus totally on God for an hour without a bottle of water?
I guess we're going to stay on the points we've brought up. You're asking why I can't focus on God without a drink of water. But my point still stands. How does my bottle of water prevent you from focusing on Him? I just don't understand the descrepancy here. If my thirst shouldn't prevent me from focusing on Him, my bottle of water shouldn't prevent you from the same.
_____________________________
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/1/2008 8:28:43 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
rather than not go because they can't have it
I am not talking about church rules. I am talking about each individual weighing this issue on a personal level.
quote:
But as long as the person is not drawing attention to himself by gulping and burping or having to get up and go to the bathroom
Its not about the physical actions of drinking or the results thereof. It doesn't disturb me when someone takes a drink. I just wonder why.
WITH THE MEDICAL EXCEPTION TAKEN FOR GRANTED
quote:
because you find it disruptive, irritating, etc.
I don't think I have ever said it was disruptive and that is not my point at all as I have restated time and time again. Its a matter of personal respect between each individual and God. Its NOT a church issue. Its NOT a personal disruptive issue.
I was saved in a pentacostal style church. It wasn't quiet. It wasn't without some pretty obvious "distraction" as many would call it. A crunnching bottle or burp or slurp will not duisturb me. It isn't about that...at all.
Its about putting your carnal desires aside for just a few minutes a week to focus on God.
THAT...is why fasting is the issue as I have said before. Fasting is putting your carnal desires aside for a time to focus on God. Its the same thing. There MUST be a spiritual importance for doing this...putting aside carnal desires and focusing on God...or fasting would not be a part of our walk with God.
quote:
Ours happen to be from approximately 10:30 until approximately 1:45, and that is shorter than some
My first church services lasted, for me, from 9 am to noon. I never brought a drink into the sanctuary...I am not sure if I ever took a drink during church in three years. It never occured to me to do so....and believe me, I was "active" and with emotional "outbursts" so to speak. Crying etc.
May I also ask the size of your congregation?
quote:
It is understood and even expected that people will have food and/or drinks during the service, and it is followed by lunch all together then by studying and other activities all afternoon, supper, then a final service in the evening. There are drinks and food everywhere all the time.
I would consider this a rare situation and outside of the constraints of my point.
quote:
But my point still stands. How does my bottle of water prevent you from focusing on Him?
It doesn't at all and its not any part of my point. I am not sure I can be more plain than what I have already said.
Its an individual commitment, I guess for a lack of a better word. It won't effect me if you sit down to a 10 course meal in church. I am not in church to pay attention to anyone but God.
I'm just wondering why you would bring a drink to church?
By the way I have had pollups on my vocal chords. I understand the need for throat lubrication. I've had throat surgery a few times. With the exception of a candy or two before service, I still never brought a drink to church. Not saying anyone else's medical condition was worse or not as bad as mine. Just making the point that taking a drink to church never occurs to me.
Its not why I go.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/1/2008 10:49:22 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Its about putting your carnal desires aside for just a few minutes a week to focus on God. . . . THAT...is why fasting is the issue as I have said before. Fasting is putting your carnal desires aside for a time to focus on God. Its the same thing. There MUST be a spiritual importance for doing this...putting aside carnal desires and focusing on God...or fasting would not be a part of our walk with God. Oh! This could be a huge difference! Our worship is not about fasting or deprivation but about rejoicing and making it a delight. This could be merely a difference in worship.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Abiyah
Ours happen to be from approximately 10:30 until approximately 1:45, and that is shorter than some
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
My first church services lasted, for me, from 9 am to noon. I never brought a drink into the sanctuary...I am not sure if I ever took a drink during church in three years. It never occured to me to do so....and believe me, I was "active" and with emotional "outbursts" so to speak. Crying etc.
May I also ask the size of your congregation? We are small, but I have never counted. I would guess it fluxuates between 140 and 120.
We are neither Pentecostal nor Charismatic, so there are no outbursts, but we do sing quite awhile and with enthusiasm  , then this is followed by a lot of praying aloud and by LOTS of Scripture-reading (we're liturgical) that we stand for while one person reads. Of course, after this, the teaching, then all the afternoon until evening activities. It's basically an all day thing.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/2/2008 7:42:41 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
Our worship is not about fasting
I am not accusing you of anything here but...you never fast?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/2/2008 11:09:31 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Our worship is not about fasting
I am not accusing you of anything here but...you never fast?
Regarding fasting on our main day of worship, fasting happens very rarely on a Sabbath (I'm Messianic). Regarding what I do, I cannot fast anymore. I wanted desparately to fast last Yom Kippur, because I had not had a problem with it before, as long as I drank water. That time, however, I became ill and nearly passed out just a few hours into the fast. I have a few physical ailments which, when I think about it, I guess I am fortunate I made it this far.
After this, my fasting will have to be water and something more -- I don't know what yet.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/2/2008 7:23:19 PM
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SonInMe1
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What was your experience with fasting when you were able to do it?
For me it opened my relationship with God. It truly focused it. Refined it.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/2/2008 8:49:21 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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SonInMe, are you sure it's all right to discuss this here, or shall we start another thread?
Here's a thread: http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3385231/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3385231
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 5/2/2008 10:45:42 PM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/2/2008 10:59:13 PM
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tombombadil
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How about if we just go to church and not care what the other person is doing and focus on our worship.
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/3/2008 8:12:34 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
How about if we just go to church and not care what the other person is doing and focus on our worship.
Focussing on my worship would mean I wouldn't bring water into the sanctuary...or soda or whatever other than a spirit ready to worship.
What
you
do
is
between
you
and
God.
All I am suggesting is that you challenge what you believe. As I said before this isn't about church rules or what you should be doing...its a challenge to question why you are in church and the spiritual importance of fasting.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/3/2008 8:33:01 AM
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car2ner
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IMHO... I have been in services where I was embarrassed to remove noisy paper around a cough drop. Now I sit in a service where we eat breakfast bars and drink coffee. There are so many differant types of churches, and so many differant styles of worship, and so many differant types of people. Do I advocate "church shopping"? Not really, but there should be a church that God wants you in and when you find it, to drink or not to drink is so not an issue.
_____________________________
bungalow time http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)http://car2ner.imagekind.com/ (my portfolio)
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/3/2008 10:40:10 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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What bothers me most of all is certainly not places of worship that will not allow people to drink/eat during the service but places of worship that will not allow children in the services. . . .
Edited because what I said was what I think, but I could have been kinder about it.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 5/3/2008 5:36:02 PM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is It Okay To Drink Water and Other Beverages Durin... - 5/3/2008 4:25:38 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3615
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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Why not target a more age appropriate teaching? This is what our church does. The kids are not shuffled off to some corner to wait until the adult service is over. They are taught in classrooms by age.....but I guess that also depends on the size of your church. I think we have hundreds in our children's classes every week.
We also have glassed rooms, its hard to explain I guess, at the back of the sanctuary, for mothers with young babies. They can hear and see the sermon but we cannot hear the babies. ( Its kinda like going to the hospital maternity ward and walking by all the babies when we walk by there )
Like I said, its not a disturbance issue. Its a personal one. Individual.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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