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RE: America In Prophecy - 1/31/2008 4:51:55 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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The thing that worries me the most is that "teriwrist"s eschatology seems to be greatly colored by a geneal hatred for America. And that alone gives me pause when considering the possibilities. It is because of this that I am tempted to just reject the idea flat out.
Sinner-Saint, the "age old" stuff that you seem to revile so much is far from ancestor worship. I think that if we are to trust someone's doctrine, it should be the people that were closest to Jesus and the Apostles... because they are the most likely to have had it correct (getting their stuff directly from Jesus would have that effect). It is a very Rennassaince idea to say that the new is inherently better than the old, not a Biblical one. In our highly Western mindset, we place no value on the wisdom or actions of the ancient world. Yet, when is the last time modern society has produced anything as astounding as the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World?
You desire to speak about the Third beast, lets go there. Greece, under the leadership of Alexander the Great, conquered the entire known world in 10 years. That is moving like lightning... and few animals are faster than a leopard. What gave the great beast it's dramatic speed? Besides being a leopard, it has four wings... and Greece was propelled across the earth by Alexander the Great and his four generals. According to the description given of this beast, his kingdom is divided to the four winds. When Alexander he Great died, his Kingdom was divided and his four generals took control of the Empire. Make sense now?
Adam
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/4/2008 8:00:26 PM
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IC.InChrist
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Hey All & Hi,,
Perhaps a better question should be , Why or What makes America immune from being part of the direct endtime Prophecy?
I do have a question from my last post,, Why did it take America nearly 3 years to get involved in WWII in Europe. Why not the defense of the Jews & others as they were being killed by the thousands and eventually by millions by Hitler and his axis powers.
Anyone willing to fill in that bit of History from your(USA) perspective?
Capture the Dream,
yours In Christ,,
God Bless
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HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, Lord God Almighty-
which was, and is, and is to come.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/4/2008 9:00:24 PM
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bob97
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Just off the top of my head, if I were going to pick a force in the current age that would compare to Alexandra I would have to look at the Islamic Religion and the way it is overtaking Europe and the old USSR countries. I point out these countries but it is not limited to just those; look at Africa, Australia and the current receiving climate that it enjoys in Canada and the United States. We exclude the Christian teaching because it interferes with Church and State and interject Islam in its place.
Islam is becoming a force based mostly on the birth rate of the Muslim world. Of course that was the strategic of the Mullahs from the beginning.
Bob
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/4/2008 9:49:39 PM
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IC.InChrist
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Hey All & Hi Bob,,
While it is true that Islam is growing around the world, it is also true that this religion is false and came from what they call, their Prophet. And what did the prophet speak, that Jesus is not the son of God and is only like Muhammed, a Prophet.
From John we know that this is antichrist 1 John 2.
Yet John also speaks in Rev 13 about who the two beasts get there authourity from, the Dragon.
Since you have mentioned Islam are you saying that it is the beast from the Sea or the beast from the earth?
Capture the Dream,
yours In Christ,,
God Bless
_____________________________
HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, Lord God Almighty-
which was, and is, and is to come.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/4/2008 10:05:37 PM
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bob97
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I continue to keep my eye on a collation, headed by Russia in alliance with Iran, Syria and various other Islamic Countries. After all, it is the goal of all to destroy Israel.
Russia ancestry is Japhetic which is from the line of Magog. The Romans were also Japhetic.
Bob
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The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/4/2008 10:25:34 PM
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IC.InChrist
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Hey All & Hi Bob,,
quote:
After all, it is the goal of all to destroy Israel.
If this statement of yours is correct then All would also include all nations not just the one you have mentioned.
So I'm guessing here since you didn't give me an answer to my question i asked you ,, that you are refering to the 1st beast of Rev 13 in your answers here in relation to Islam & Russia. Is that correct?
Capture the Dream,
yours In Christ,,
God Bless
_____________________________
HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, Lord God Almighty-
which was, and is, and is to come.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/5/2008 1:31:46 AM
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bob97
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IC,
Yes…what I’m talking about could very well be the 1st Beast of Rev 13 or the Little Horn of Dan 7:8.
His actions would be described in latter part of Dan 11
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/5/2008 2:25:42 AM
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IC.InChrist
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Hey All & Hi Bob,,
quote:
Yes…what I’m talking about could very well be the 1st Beast of Rev 13 or the Little Horn of Dan 7:8.
Thanks for the reply Bob,,
Rev 13
1And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.
Do you remember what took place in June 2004? Well quite a lot actually happened in that first week or so,,
Reagan died 5th June
1000 days since 9/11, 6th June
60 years since D-Day, 6th June
Barbara Bush's Birthday, 8th June
Venus Transit across Sun, 8th June
Nero Died, 9th June 68AD
Reagan lies in State in Washington DC, 9th June
State Funeral for Reagan, 11th June
G HW Bush's Birthday, 12the June.
And while all this was taking place one more thing was taking place.
G8 summit was being held at Sea Island.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30th_G8_summit.
Capture the Dream,
yours In Christ,,
God Bless
_____________________________
HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, Lord God Almighty-
which was, and is, and is to come.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/5/2008 2:29:23 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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I'm not saying that America is excluded from being the beast, I'm saying that it doesn't seem likely. Specifically because there is nothing more evil in the United States than has already been in the other empires that have existed. Egypt issued the first mandatory Abortion order known to man, Assyria and Babylon were both highly imperialistic and notably harsh to minority groups, Greece had rampant homosexuality, Rome made death a sport, and the Turks and Ottomans were ruled by a false religion. In fact, the only "civilized" empire we have ever seen is the British Empire. And even they had their downfalls in harshly restricting personal freedom, trying to impose their culture on most of the known world, and carving nitches into the New World by slaughtering Natives and selling the survivors into slavery. To be sure, all of these empires shared most, if not all, of these elements... so nothing in America is unique to America, meaning there is no reason to single it out from all the others.
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/5/2008 3:51:20 AM
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IC.InChrist
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Hey All & Hi,,
quote:
so nothing in America is unique to America, meaning there is no reason to single it out from all the others.
All nations have there good & bad parts as do the governments that run them. Yet there is something that i think does make America unique from the rest of us. And what is the Pentagon building, what is symbolises for America and what it also symbolises in the spiritual.
Capture the Dream,
yours In Christ,,
God Bless
_____________________________
HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, Lord God Almighty-
which was, and is, and is to come.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/5/2008 5:08:30 AM
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IC.InChrist
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Hey All & Hi,,
Just thought i would link some info on the Pentagon & inturn the Pentagram, pls do note the reference to Venus aswell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon
the link below is interesting in how the Pentagon gots its shape & therefore name.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/23/AR2007052301296.html
Capture the Dream,
yours In Christ,,
God Bless
_____________________________
HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, Lord God Almighty-
which was, and is, and is to come.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/5/2008 5:19:27 PM
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bob97
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This is exactly the type of situation that concerns me regarding Russia and the Islamic Nations.
Here
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/7/2008 11:20:12 PM
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awaken
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I have read that there are three words in the Bible that refer to U.S. Daniel 11:29-30 Chittim (ships of Chittim) Means powerful lands from the west.
Ez. 38:13 The young lions-
Is. 18:1 the land shadowing with wings, which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia Who has war ships west of Israel? U.S. and Great Britian
Revelation 12:13-14 Two wings of a great eagle
It was told that the eagle on the dollar bill is holding a star with 5 points(U.S. flag) star within a 6 pointed star(Israel-star of David). The eagle claws holding the olive branch on the left(peace) and arrows(fight for freedom) on the right. Eagle is upholding Israel by her wings.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/10/2008 8:42:28 AM
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rit.05
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Interesting to read through this thread and see all the finger pointing and some masked hatred and judgement. Since when has it been in any of Jesus' teachings for us to feel this way about anyone or anything?
I have theories about the end times and Revelations, but I will not let them override the knowledge that God is in control and has chose to reveal only so much of the end of the story. John is even told NOT to record certain events. His thoughts are not our thoughts, His ways are not our ways...and i would be very careful to assume that I knew what events were going to occur in HIS time.
That being said, America may be addressed figuratively in certain prophesy, but the heart of this nation is inherently good and God fearing. Through all the different interpretations and personal sentiments, the reality of a world in need of Christ like love right up until the final judgement should override all other interests.
And lastly, for those among us that use the internet for all of their "research" and "reference" maybe it is time for some reading and history lessons. Slowly back away from the conspiracy theories and see the truth, not what conveniently fits into your version of NWO.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/10/2008 10:23:19 AM
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bob97
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quote:
That being said, America may be addressed figuratively in certain prophesy, but the heart of this nation is inherently good and God fearing. Through all the different interpretations and personal sentiments, the reality of a world in need of Christ like love right up until the final judgement should override all other interests.
Amen rit!
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/10/2008 11:57:38 AM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Sinner-Saint, the "age old" stuff that you seem to revile so much is far from ancestor worship. I think that if we are to trust someone's doctrine, it should be the people that were closest to Jesus and the Apostles... because they are the most likely to have had it correct (getting their stuff directly from Jesus would have that effect).
Well first of all, I don't revile them; the beginning Church had to sort a whole lot of doctrine in how to put Christianity into practice. We will ultimately know how much they got God right.
But my point is this: For centuries theological scholars have made a one-for-one connection between the parts of the statue God showed Nebuchadnezzar in a dream and the four beasts God showed Daniel in a dream.
I don't think these two separate dreams cover the same thing.
They both have the same end: the Roman world with the final terrible nation which we have yet to see because THAT is smashed by Jesus and His Millennium reign covers the whole earth. Furthermore, within Daniel's dream is the fact that when the fourth beast is destroyed - the other three beasts are allowed to live (by God) for a while. That is not true of the Kingdoms which precede the fourth with the statue.
Now about the predictive nature of prophecy:
If you were to go back to A.D.1400 at the beginning of the Renaissance, and inform the best and brightest theological scholars of the day that two new things were going to happen in 4-500 years, they wouldn't believe you.
If you told them that in 1787, a new nation would be born out of England by her powerless (wingless) colonists in a never-before known land to them - and that this nation would not have a King - but those people would be equal - they would not be able to grasp such a concept: Democracy within a Republic. America is a new animal on the Earth.
If you told them that their way of life would be completely turned upside down; they would not be able to accept what you were saying. You see for five whole millennium, man had always lived off the earth. They would have NO concept of the Industrial Revolution. This new idea - Capitalism - has conquered the world without firing a shot. It began in 1400 and spread westward only to find its natural home in America as well. From here, it has overtaken even the major tyrannical governmental systems of the 20th century: socialism and communism. The USSR has fallen and Communist China is now the biggest producer of consumer goods.
So it is not that they got it best because they were closest. It's because they were limited in what they have known that they could not think outside the box in order to see what God was going to do.
It was simply beyond their ability to grasp the enormity of our present world.
We on the other hand, take too many things for granted and we don't appreciate how much things have changed.
So I will not blindly rely on age-old solutions - especially when they do not fit the facts of prophecy (Daniel 7:12).
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/10/2008 12:16:30 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
You desire to speak about the Third beast, lets go there... Make sense now?
Repeating the age-old lesson does not make it any better - especially when it goes against the fact that Greece as major power is kaput, fini, and no longer is her former self.
The three beasts of Daniel survive the destruction of the fourth in Daniel 7:12.
All three beasts of Daniel are in John's vision of the fourth in Revelation 13:2.
Those are the facts of end-time prophecy.
Kingdoms and great civilizations depicted by the statue are now in the ash heap of history.
If you want to say there are parallels between the Kingdoms of the statue and the beasts - I will acknowledge that valid comparisons can be made! America is much like ancient Babylon in her haughty manner because of our wealth. While Nebuchadnezzar was prideful -- it is only American which truly has a heart of man given to it. Human Rights defines the U.S.!
Russia, like Medes-Persia is composed of two parts: Russia and the USSR. Both entities are raised up on one side: culturally, by population density, and by historical outlook - Russia has always been raised up on her left, westward side! It's culture comes from the eastern half of the Roman Empire of Caesar; it's population lies west of the Urals predominantly; and it's historical outlook has always been westward: toward Europe. Russia has instigated more war and has consumed more people than ancient Medes-Persia ever could have lusted to accomplish.
The EU is like ancient Greece. It is pulled apart. It's natural "head" is Brussels, the headquarters of the EU. However, Great Britain, Germany, and France all pull different ways. They are part of the SAME body, yet they have different outlooks, and each has its own military (strength, another attribute of a wing) which they can use on their own. However -- ONLY the EU has been granted the authority to rule! Their Constitution is nothing BUT that!
What I am saying is that Daniel's dream runs parallel to the dream God gave Nebuchadnezzar. But like parallel accounts, the first gives a broad overview, while the second gives more information about a time of keen interest - in this instance: the end-time nations.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/10/2008 12:29:12 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Greece, under the leadership of Alexander the Great, conquered the entire known world in 10 years. That is moving like lightning... and few animals are faster than a leopard. What gave the great beast it's dramatic speed? Besides being a leopard, it has four wings... and Greece was propelled across the earth by Alexander the Great and his four generals. According to the description given of this beast, his kingdom is divided to the four winds. When Alexander he Great died, his Kingdom was divided and his four generals took control of the Empire. Make sense now?
Greece already has an animal to depict it.
DA 8:5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between his eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground.
Greece is the Goat with a prominent horn. That horn is Alexander.
6 He came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at him in great rage. 7 I saw him attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering his two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against him; the goat knocked him to the ground and trampled on him, and none could rescue the ram from his power
Medes-Persia is no more. None could rescue the ram. In Daniel 7:12, the second beast survives the destruction of the fourth!
Greece was divided by four horns which grew to the four winds. North/South/East/West. One of those horns became Antiochus IV Epiphanes. He serves as a precursor to the anti-Christ. Indeed, the latter part of Daniel 8 shifts to an end-time perspective.
Greece did not have the authority to rule. It was too busy being at war with itself after it split up.
The Leopard is a different animal. It is a predator.
The Leopard has four heads in one body!
It may pull in different ways with its power struggles, but it is not at war with itself!
The Leopard is constituted by a document which is nothing more than a declaration that is has the authority to rule this and that, and it goes on and on in that vein throughout its Constitution where it spells out what power it has.
DA 8:9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land.
This does not apply to the EU. However, with Greece it was true. Daniel 11 describes a generational war between the Kingdoms left over by Alexander: the North and the South.
This war serves as an example which will be replicated in the end-times. There will be three major world players: the North united under the fourth beast; the South: Islam, and the East: China.
Make sense now? Probably not to you, but that's alright. In the end, we will understand how God's prophecy was spot-on right.
< Message edited by Sinner-Saint -- 2/10/2008 12:38:28 PM >
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/10/2008 1:58:31 PM
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bob97
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It is my opinion that Four Beast Kingdoms foreshadow the end time kingdoms the same as Antiochus foreshadows the Antichrist. I would also have to think that the beasts would originate from the same general areas of the world as they did in times past.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/14/2008 9:19:32 PM
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IC.InChrist
Posts: 156
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Hey All & Hi Sinner Saint,,
I think you have raised some valid points in those last few posts of yours.
Capture the Dream,
yours In Christ,,
God Bless
_____________________________
HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, Lord God Almighty-
which was, and is, and is to come.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/18/2008 3:00:05 AM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Uhm... about Daniel 7... Many scholars believe it to be a parallel of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 2. If that be the case, the first beast is Babylon (makes sense because of the lion being the most majestic of land mammals and being associated with the Head of Gold), the second is Persia (the bear which leans on the Persians because the Medes were incredibly weak, and the three ribs being the three empires conquered by Persia), the third is Greece (Alexander moved lightning fast across the entire earth, with his four chief generals getting his empire after his death), and the fourth is Rome (being the great beast that destroys all else, Rome occupied more than half of the known world at the time). So no, England and America are not found in Daniel.
From what I have seen, America is not even mentioned in the End-Time scenario. That is either good news (because we aren't doing stuff in the echelon of evil of raising up the antichrist) or is very frightening (because we don't exist at the time).
Hope that helps.
Adam
I agree with Adam. I don't believe America is in play during this time. America is definately not the babylon that revelations speaks about because we don't have the blood of prophets and martyrs on our soil.
I believe russia will align with Islamic countries and communist countries, and that Rome will once again be on the forefront of things.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/18/2008 11:30:02 AM
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Biblefreak
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I know that God says "I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse those who curse you." Talking about Isreal. The U.S. has not always backed Isreal. So why should the U.S. not feel God's wrath? I think you can make the case and point we have started to.
Depending on other countires for things and the spending the country does is at an all-time out of control state. The fighting among people and hate crimes are becoming an everyday occurance.
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I look above
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/18/2008 12:34:24 PM
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Ntech
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A thought on America in prophecy here. Read up on Daniel 8 and 11 and ask this question. Are they repeating? Its true that these prophesies were fulfilled once back in the B.C. era but consider this, They never completed. And from what I figured out is that there is still 7 years left on the 490 year calender of Daniel 9. The 70 weeks.
So here is my theory on what's happening here. The US is the realm of Greece of Daniel 11. And if you consider Daniel 11-2 as a 9-11 prediction ( it's 100% accurate on that as far as it goes). And if you consider the horns of the ram of Daniel 8 as a prediction of the conquering of Afghanistan and Iraq then what you have is Daniel is 3 for 3 since 2001.
Now what will confirm this theory will be the next couple of prophesied events happening. The next event would be the death of the ram. The ram was the Medeo-Persian empire. And Persia(Iran) is still unconquered. And still causing unrest. So the ram and goat are still fighting.
Following that then the next event would be Daniel 11-4 and 8-20. The fracturing of the realm of Greece 4 ways And then a pause until a agreement is signed a few yers later. Possibly the 7 year agreement of Daniel 9.
And anothe guess here. I would think that eventually that the US becomes one of the toes of the statue of Daniel 2. And the Antichrist is an American.
< Message edited by Ntech -- 2/18/2008 12:48:34 PM >
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/18/2008 10:37:35 PM
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Saved-To-Serve
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You'll find the USA in the second half of Rev. 13 - the beast with two horns like a lamb.
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RE: America In Prophecy - 2/19/2008 11:06:54 AM
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Biblefreak
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I for one do not see the U.S. on the whole as repenting of it's sin. If anything we are paving the way for more with the garbage that flows out of Hollywood and the porn industry. Not, to mention the way our politics are so cut-throat. There's a ton more but, you get the point.
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"When I'm feeling weak
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I look above
And I know I'll always be blessed with love"
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