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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/9/2008 7:09:04 PM
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Sammy_S
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It would be highly unlikely that a true believer would commit suicide but I cannot rule out the possibility.Jesus Christ died for the sins of the past,present and future.
So i guess that He would be forgiven since Christ died for all of our sins BUT,I would question his/her salvation.I am not saying that he or she would have been lost but I do believe that Christians are being sanctified and seeking his will and not our own.People usually commit suicide when they have lost a desire for life.Christians desire christ and not things from the world.
So again,God will forgive his people if they commit suicide,but It is extremely hard for me to reconsile that with the biblical teaching of perseverance of the saints.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/9/2008 7:15:52 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
God is beyond time and of course knows full well what will happen in our future…so if we are destined to commit suicide God is aware of that fact. Now if God calls you to be his child and if the Holy Spirit has written God’s law upon your heart and you belong to Christ, why would God reject you because you have committed an act that He knew from the start you would commit? I don't believe anyone is destined to commit suicide; it is a choice. A very tragic choice made in a moment of often-time deep anguish and despair; but, nonetheless, it is still choice; not a destiny.
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Updated 7/17/08
#160 - #205
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/9/2008 7:23:52 PM
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Real_Solitude
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Something I found funnily related to this discussion.
Click this link.
Note: This is not meant to offend, but merely to illustrate a point about the whole 'suicide death before repentance' thing.
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"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/10/2008 8:19:17 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Real_Solitude
Something I found funnily related to this discussion.
Click this link.
Note: This is not meant to offend, but merely to illustrate a point about the whole 'suicide death before repentance' thing.
Seems more intended to ridicule in a very juvenile way without offering any illumination on the topic. It's an illustration only like political cartoons...
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/12/2008 3:32:25 AM
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Real_Solitude
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It is intended to ridicule, in a manner. But it is also certainly meant to illuminate. The very definition of illuminate is to bring light to. A lot of people hold views that they don't consider from every angle. On the face of things, non-repentance before death might seem an instant condemnation. Suicide being the perfect example because, with many methods, there is literally no time to repent before the person dies.
This comic brings an absurdity of this belief to light via a semi-satirical message. It makes salvation versus condemnation a time-game, in which the player must repent before death, or lose the 'game'. What this comic was supposed to convey, in a few short lines, was what normally takes paragraphs or pages of text to confer. It is supposed to force the reader to re-examine their views in a separate light, instead of holding obstinately to their views without examining them.
Unless, of course, the reader takes immediate offense without thinking about the message contained within. Which is why I put the whole "not meant for offense" thing.
_____________________________
"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/12/2008 9:36:35 AM
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LivingParadox
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For some reason "intended to ridicule" and "not meant to offend" are not compatible concepts. (Especially with a subject matter like suicide)
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/12/2008 8:48:50 PM
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JesusSeeker2
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If the person accepts Jesus Christ as their savior and is baptized, their name is forever written in the Lambs Book of Life.
No this person is not sent to hell.
I had this same question because I tried to commit suicide in my teen years after loosing a boyfriend in a drunk driving accident that was not his fault. The drunk driver drove an 18 wheeler head on into my boyfriend at the time and decapitated him. I overdosed on pills but God saved me. He woke me up just before my parents arrived home to find me. He spared them that heartache. He spared my life because He had a different path for my life. I repented later in life after realizing who God is in my life and through many life experiences.
One morning listening to Dr. Charles Stanley's radio show, "In Touch Ministries", Dr. Stanley addressed this question. Even though suicide is a sin, and you did not repent you will be judged and held accountable for that sin but if you repented and asked Jesus for forgiveness because and/or if you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior and acknowledge that His death at calvary was to pay your sin debt in full, a debt He did not owe, you will be saved and your sin forgiven. God forgets your sins when He forgives you
Hope that helps. It sure helped me. And it allows me to pray for those that feel that is the only way out. God is the only way!
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/14/2008 9:49:25 AM
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CCCdnt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JesusSeeker2
If the person accepts Jesus Christ as their savior and is baptized, their name is forever written in the Lambs Book of Life.
This is commonly known as "once saved, always saved" (except not all believe that baptism is necessary for salvation). However, it should be noted that not all professing Christians believe that the Bible teaches this doctrine. (Not trying to start a debate on OSAS here, just trying to point out that not all Christians believe the Bible teaches it.)
If salvation is conditional as some believe the Bible teaches, then the question could be asked of one that committed suicide of "was the person still in Christ (saved) when the person committed suicide?" (assuming the person was saved at a time before he committed suicide.) This comes from the belief that the Bible teaches that a person can choose to forfeit his salvation (decide he no longer wants to follow Christ, no longer believes in Christ, etc.)
Then there are also those professing Christians that believe that Bible teaches that certains sins if not repented of will cause one to lose his salvation with murder usually being one of those sins. Since suicide is self-murder, then those that believe in this type of conditional salvation would believe that suicide would cause a loss of salvation.
Again, I am not trying to start a debate on OSAS versus conditional salvation. I am just trying to show that there are different beliefs among professing Christians about this. (One only has to read through the OSAS thread to see this.)
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/14/2008 10:42:55 AM
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TJStarfire
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1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
James 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/14/2008 11:51:09 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Real_Solitude
It is intended to ridicule, in a manner. But it is also certainly meant to illuminate. The very definition of illuminate is to bring light to. A lot of people hold views that they don't consider from every angle. On the face of things, non-repentance before death might seem an instant condemnation. Suicide being the perfect example because, with many methods, there is literally no time to repent before the person dies.
This comic brings an absurdity of this belief to light via a semi-satirical message. It makes salvation versus condemnation a time-game, in which the player must repent before death, or lose the 'game'. What this comic was supposed to convey, in a few short lines, was what normally takes paragraphs or pages of text to confer. It is supposed to force the reader to re-examine their views in a separate light, instead of holding obstinately to their views without examining them.
Unless, of course, the reader takes immediate offense without thinking about the message contained within. Which is why I put the whole "not meant for offense" thing.
No, it simply ridicules and offers nothing but ridicule. If you believe like the cartoonist, you laugh at the ones he ridicules. If you don't agree with the nitwit, you have no opportunity for dialogue. He's got the stage and nobody is welcome to join him.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/15/2008 2:37:58 AM
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BibleL7
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To those who have had loved ones commit suicide I pray your heart to be healed and your relationship with the Lord to be strengthened. Remember that what is past is past and we need to deal with our own future. I would also hope that going through it the Lord would strengthen you and give you even more zeal to get the word of salvation to as many as possible and perhaps give them hope that they dont have that they may not consider the option. To those who have posted truth and love and caring I wish you blessings.
To the few that believe that suicide is the unforgivable sin I suggest you get a Bible and look up the Scripture in Matthew Chapter 12 around verse 32 and Luke Chapter 12 around verse 10. Learn what the Bible says about forgiveness of sin before you spout out ignorance. And yes you will find the same in the Catholic Bible as any other version. So dont think that they have a different Scripture.
To those who are unsure read what the Bible says, if you know someone who suffers from depression encourage them every chance you get. This topic and thread should be a very good reason to want to reach as many as possible with the Gospel to give them HOPE in life. For take it from a former Atheist, when you dont know of Jesus and His love and Saving Grace and Sacrifice for Sins and when you dont believe the Bible or in God you have no hope whatsoever. And in this state you have no problem of putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger. This I know from experience. Praise the Lord that He had other plans for me and it only cost me time in jail for discharging a firearm. But then it caused me to have to find a new place to live which happened to require church attendance. Of course I thought I could breeze through six months of attending church and get back on my feet but then the Lord had other plans.
So I will say again to all who read this thread TELL as Many As Possible about Jesus and His love and Salvation. Pray for them and perhaps they will then receive the Hope that they will not be tempted to take their life.
Just the opinion of a small town preacher
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/24/2008 3:23:14 PM
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JordanW
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Personally I think that God would have mercy on their soul and would accept them into Heaven. I don't think it's right for people to consider suicide, because there is help out there, you just have to pray and consult God and he will set you free.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/24/2008 6:48:29 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 630
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Okami
I myself believe a little differently than the norm I guess.
For one, if he was a believer and truly repented for his past sins, then he was saved. Suicide is still a sin, and that one particular sin wouldn't be forgiven if he didn't repent of it before he died, but it wouldn't mean he would suddenly be going to hell I don't think. Sometimes sin just gets the best of us. We all do it, we just have time to confess it and get back on track. We don't get erased from the book of life each slip we make, we just start to lose fellowship a little at a time. It would just be an unconfessed sin on judgement day.
God knows the heart, and would surely know if he truly felt he wanted to be with the Lord right away than endure the perceived impossible situation they were dealing with. (which could lead to a whole other argument about lacking faith in itself )
But, I also don't believe God would take someone against their will either.
If someone saved decides to give it up, spends the next 10 years trying to be a devout athiest, then finally kills themselves, they aren't going to get a "well done, come on in to Heaven".
Yes, I think it applies to freak accidents too.
Unsaved, tough luck.
Saved, great, they see God sooner.
Saved, sin, truly repent, sin, truly repent, sin and die suddenly, they will still see Heaven.
Saved, sin, sin, sin, sin, with no sign of caring or remorse and die suddenly, then tough luck. The last 5 verses of matt 24 would apply to him.
I agree somewhat with what is stated here.
I grew up in the Catholic church, and we were told that suicide is the only unforgiven sin. I didn't understand that at the time, and I still am not entirely sure of the view. I can see this viewpoint if the person was not saved. But if they were not saved than this really wouldn't matter. I am no longer part of the Catholic church by the way.
If they were saved when this happened, even if we sin we still need to repent of it.
But I don't contend to know the mind of God, and what he says on the matter since the bible doesn't really say anything regarding this. At least that I have come across.
As to why a person would tell someones children that their daddy wasn't going to heaven, this I just don't understand. How mean do you have to be to say something like this to a child. We are not here to condemn anyone, or judge anyone, lest we be judged. I choose to leave that in the hands of God, and would pray for anyone who found themselves in this situation.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/24/2008 7:11:41 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 630
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cephyr13
John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
So, if Jesus gives us eternal life, then we lose that eternal life, it was never "eternal" to begin with, because it was lost, which means He's a liar, which again, is not possible. And He says in the above verse that we DO NOT come into judgement. If we do not come into judgement, how can we be condemned by a sin?
Very good point here. I think it helps me with my view on this subject.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/26/2008 4:07:30 PM
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FroMan
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I have a different view on suicide then most...
I lean towards a belief that a person who has committed suicide is not in their right mind--somewhat like a mentally handicapped person--and might not be judged the same as you or I would.
God is merciful and just. The Bible doesn't much address the issue of suicide, but I lean towards this stance:
"Don't commit suicide, but don't condemn and judge those who have experienced family or friends that have committed it. We cannot be sure how God chooses to judge this act, so love people through these situations."
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/26/2008 9:31:47 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FroMan
I have a different view on suicide then most...
I lean towards a belief that a person who has committed suicide is not in their right mind--somewhat like a mentally handicapped person--and might not be judged the same as you or I would.
God is merciful and just. The Bible doesn't much address the issue of suicide, but I lean towards this stance:
"Don't commit suicide, but don't condemn and judge those who have experienced family or friends that have committed it. We cannot be sure how God chooses to judge this act, so love people through these situations."
I agree, but we should not be judging or condemning anybody, for anything. That is not our job, but the Lords. It is our job to speak the good news. To tell why we have hope, and to due it respectfully.
But I don't think all people that commit suicide are mentally ill. Those who aren't may be depressed, or facing death due to sickness, like the 1 post said. There are unfortunately, I gather, many reasons why someone would do this. I have never experienced any of them. But I am sure God knows the situation, and will be merciful.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/26/2008 10:35:47 PM
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Robert_G
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Where is the trust in God in this thread?
Do people here honestly believe that God would allow a the circumstances of a Christian lead him/her to suicide?
I don't believe that a Christian has it in him/her to commit suicide except for the very rare exception...and even then....
We are God's children, and he is allknowing.
My personal belief is that God would simply not allow me to commit suicide for any reason. Someone from the body would intervene, or whatever.....That's why God commands Christians to look out for one another.
Even if no one knew, God would find a way to use another Christian, or even a circumstance to save that person from killing themselves.
_____________________________
..............
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/27/2008 12:55:56 AM
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Casper22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
Where is the trust in God in this thread?
Do people here honestly believe that God would allow a the circumstances of a Christian lead him/her to suicide?
I don't believe that a Christian has it in him/her to commit suicide except for the very rare exception...and even then....
We are God's children, and he is allknowing.
My personal belief is that God would simply not allow me to commit suicide for any reason. Someone from the body would intervene, or whatever.....That's why God commands Christians to look out for one another.
Even if no one knew, God would find a way to use another Christian, or even a circumstance to save that person from killing themselves.
Please do not take this the wrong way but do you not have an understanding about mental illness. Do you not think Christians get chemical embalances schizophrenia dementia ect ect ect. I do believe that God protects his own but there are times when a person is so down in the valley they arent able to comprehend that love. My mom was saved when she died but because of the influence her church had over her that seeking help from doctors and meds showed a lack of faith stopped her from seeking help for her mental incapacities.
Tell me this my friend and answer this anyway you deem acceptable my mom had all the faith in the world that she was healed that the Lord was going to take care of her but that still didnt stop her from taking a bottle of pills. Why was that? Was she not saved enough for God to not allow it could it be that mental illness is a bit more confusing for our arrogant know it all Jesus wouldn't allow that senceabillities than we are willing to admit? We dont KNOW enough about mental illness to even make a judgement on it. You said that God would find away to use another Christian or circumstance to save that person from killing themselves. My mom was surounded by Christians lots of them not everyone in that church was bad and they knew about her problems but yet it still wasnt enough she obviously still felt that dieing was all she had left to her were where these circumstances that where supposed to happen to stop her from taking her life. She was saved so why didnt those circumstances you wrote about kick in and take? You know what I think I think the Lord knew my mom had had enough and maybe he knew she was determined to end it and let her I like you dont understand it I want her here with me so bad I can taste it but the fact is is shes gone buddy and it aint going to happen. Mental Illness is a devastating thing if I could send you pics of my arms and show you the cigarette burns and the scissor cuts I would. God would not allow it well you know what sometimes our free will takes 1st over his will and we always dont do what we should especially when weve convinced ourselves that joy is to far away from our grasp and saddness is all weve known. Sometimes one kind of pain takes away another especially if it hurts enough. The thing is that kind of pain becomes addictive and the cuts and burns dont hurt enough anymore. But thats a story for some other day.
Casper
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/27/2008 4:25:58 AM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 290
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
Where is the trust in God in this thread?
Do people here honestly believe that God would allow a the circumstances of a Christian lead him/her to suicide?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
My personal belief is that God would simply not allow me to commit suicide for any reason.
I'm sure that there were Christians in the twin towers on 9/11 who were NOT mentally disturbed and who trusted in God, but rather than burn to death, decided to jump to a certain death. I believe that they are forgiven. I also believe that they are now with the Lord.
< Message edited by SinnerSaved -- 4/27/2008 4:32:01 AM >
_____________________________
"No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/27/2008 2:02:41 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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Ditto to what Casper22 and SinnerSaved said.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
Where is the trust in God in this thread?
Do people here honestly believe that God would allow a the circumstances of a Christian lead him/her to suicide?
I don't believe that a Christian has it in him/her to commit suicide except for the very rare exception...and even then....
We are God's children, and he is allknowing.
My personal belief is that God would simply not allow me to commit suicide for any reason. Someone from the body would intervene, or whatever.....That's why God commands Christians to look out for one another.
Even if no one knew, God would find a way to use another Christian, or even a circumstance to save that person from killing themselves.
As Casper22 mentioned, God also gave each one of us free will.
Also . . . as a survivor of my late husband's suicide, based on the logic of your post, then even my Christianity comes into question because the pain of living through such an ordeal has been manageable at best, and often times horrendously excruciating. Based on your logic, God would protect a Christian from having to deal with such after-effects borne out of a loved one's suicide.
I truly pray you never have to find out for yourself what such an experience feels like or does to a person.
< Message edited by WhiteRoseBlessings -- 4/27/2008 2:13:53 PM >
_____________________________
Crazy Toy Lady
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Please Help Me Identify These Toys.
Updated 7/17/08
#160 - #205
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/27/2008 6:04:53 PM
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Robert_G
Posts: 225
Joined: 1/8/2006
From: British Columbia, Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SinnerSaved
I'm sure that there were Christians in the twin towers on 9/11 who were NOT mentally disturbed and who trusted in God, but rather than burn to death, decided to jump to a certain death. I believe that they are forgiven. I also believe that they are now with the Lord.
Totally different situation.
These 911 people were not jumping out a building because they hated life. They did it because fear and panic got the best of them...and I agree it could happen to anyone put in that situation.
quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
As Casper22 mentioned, God also gave each one of us free will.
Also . . . as a survivor of my late husband's suicide, based on the logic of your post, then even my Christianity comes into question because the pain of living through such an ordeal has been manageable at best, and often times horrendously excruciating.
Why would your Christianity come into question? You are alive, and obviously have trusted God to help you through this ordeal.
quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
Based on your logic, God would protect a Christian from having to deal with such after-effects borne out of a loved one's suicide.
I didn't say that, nor implied it. God would help us work 'though' the ordeal. Not take the ordeal away from us.
quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
I truly pray you never have to find out for yourself what such an experience feels like or does to a person.
The question is this. Is anybody's situation or problem bigger then God?
A Christian should know that we can go to God for everything, and that he will bring us 'through' even the most devasting things in life.
And for the record, I have had my share of grief and heartache.
I also fully believe that suicide does NOT guarantee hell. It can be forgiven like anything else.
_____________________________
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/27/2008 7:32:29 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 26900
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
quote:
ORIGINAL: SinnerSaved
I'm sure that there were Christians in the twin towers on 9/11 who were NOT mentally disturbed and who trusted in God, but rather than burn to death, decided to jump to a certain death. I believe that they are forgiven. I also believe that they are now with the Lord. Totally different situation.
These 911 people were not jumping out a building because they hated life. They did it because fear and panic got the best of them...and I agree it could happen to anyone put in that situation. Exactly. Fear and panic . . . those are usually why anyone decides to take their own life. So, indeed the situations are not dissimilar.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Robert_G
Do people here honestly believe that God would allow a the circumstances of a Christian lead him/her to suicide? To nutshell it, no I do not believe that God would prevent circumstances in a person's life. If that were so, no Christian anywhere would ever have any trials of any kind. That simply isn't reality, nor is it Scriptural.
Yes, it would be wonderful if we all implicitly trusted in our Lord for everything during every single moment of our life. But sometimes we don't. And tragically, some people make some very drastic decisions because of that.
However, to imply that God is going to shield His Children from harmful experiences is very insensitive.
_____________________________
Crazy Toy Lady
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Please Help Me Identify These Toys.
Updated 7/17/08
#160 - #205
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/27/2008 7:50:41 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1170
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
However, to imply that God is going to shield His Children from harmful experiences is very insensitive.
And not Scriptural. I know someone that committed suicide, my dear friend and stepmother. She did it May 2, 1989. That week there were so many suicides, she was featured in TIME magazine.
The Bible only lists one unforgivable sin. It's not suicide. It's hard, we tend to look for faults, why did they do it, what could we have done.
And people Christian or not can say some silly things, I remember being mad at alot of people for the stupididty, but then I have to tell myself, they just don't know any better.
_____________________________
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/27/2008 7:58:39 PM
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dmistich
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The only perfection our salvation is contingent upon is the perfection of Christ! Thank God, cause I would never have made it!
This is a tough topic, because the thought of going to hell for committing suicide may actually keep some from doing it. BUT, who has the right to judge someone who is sick or hurting badly enough to commit suicide? People don't commit suicide because they are evil. They do it because they are in pain. Enough pain stored up causes mental illness. Enough mental illness and ...
I lived it and God just simply told me to stop, get up, quit crying. He picked me up, dusted me off and put me back on my feet. He wasn't mad at me! I can imagine Him doing the same for those who don't make it in this life.
_____________________________
-denise
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