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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/16/2008 1:00:51 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
His community work, trying to raise people up and help the poor, the sick and the downtrodden are all the kinds of fruit that a Christian should bear.
And those are all things that I disagree with him on in how he goes about it because in it he has replaced the big G with the little g
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/16/2008 1:47:15 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
quote:
His community work, trying to raise people up and help the poor, the sick and the downtrodden are all the kinds of fruit that a Christian should bear.
And those are all things that I disagree with him on in how he goes about it because in it he has replaced the big G with the little g
In your opinion. Mine happens to be different. We can agree to disagree you know.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/16/2008 1:54:39 PM
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TomTurn
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Sure we can disagree but I am not sure where it is
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/17/2008 9:21:03 AM
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EStan
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Something I'm curious about - and have been unable to find a real answer to, so far - does Obama support or reject reparations? Is his view on reparations in-line with his beliefs as a Christian?
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/17/2008 9:32:46 AM
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P31W
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
He's come out in support of Israel, a fact conviently ignored I might add. The only issues you seem to have with him are where he stands on abortion and homosexuality. I've already said that I'm not going to vote for the man, but I'm also not about to sit idlly by and allow people to make declarative judgements about the condition of his soul and his personal walk with God when none of you can know for sure what either of those things are
No my issue with him is that he has put himself, his wife and his children under the teachings of Black Liberation Theology. It's what he has chosen to indoctrinate himself and those he claim to love in.
If I believe him that he does not agree with his pastor on many of his "major key doctrines" --- I have to ask myself WHY he chose to make him a "uncle type" and "his spiritural mentor" and so on.
If I believe that he does not know that for 20 years now he has been sitting under the teachings of black liberation theology then I have to believe the man is simply a few cards short of a full deck.
Scripture teaches me that Obama like the rest of us are without excuse.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/17/2008 9:41:23 AM >
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/17/2008 9:54:18 AM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
He's come out in support of Israel, a fact conviently ignored I might add. The only issues you seem to have with him are where he stands on abortion and homosexuality. I've already said that I'm not going to vote for the man, but I'm also not about to sit idlly by and allow people to make declarative judgements about the condition of his soul and his personal walk with God when none of you can know for sure what either of those things are
No my issue with him is that he has put himself, his wife and his children under the teachings of Black Liberation Theology. It's what he has chosen to indoctrinate himself and those he claim to love in.
If I believe him that he does not agree with his pastor on many of his "major key doctrines" --- I have to ask myself WHY he chose to make him a "uncle type" and "his spiritural mentor" and so on.
If I believe that he does not know that for 20 years now he has been sitting under the teachings of black liberation theology then I have to believe the man is simply a few cards short of a full deck.
Scripture teaches me that Obama like the rest of us are without excuse.
That's fine. Like I said I don't mind that people believe one thing or another, but you can't know a thing like that. To believe something and to know something are two different animals.
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I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/17/2008 12:06:47 PM
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P31W
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Yes it's true that a person who chooses to put themselves under the teachings of the Morman Chruch "can somehow" be a real born again Christian. But the likelyhood of them being one is slim to none in my opinion.
Also I would have to believe they were a "new convert" otherwise the last place a born again true follower of Christ would want their children to be exposed is sitting in a so called Chruch listening to a so called Man of God teach false doctrine over and over again.
It would be wise in my opinion to view him and his family as lost. The reason to view them in this light is so that we will reach out to them and teach them the truth. We need to be praying for their salvation. Because we know their church is not doing that. There church is in fact taking them away from the truth of Jesus Christ.
Also when this mess started with his church he said that he did believe in the "social gospel". I don't know if he has a clue what he is talking about or not but most people who stand on the "social gospel" don't hold a high view of Christ. Most hold to liberal theology. Some don't but when you go in public and use the term "social gosple" most people think liberal theology. Something that did not suprise me about him. It also did not give me reason to believe that he was a "born again Christian" rather he used the generic term christian when he spoke of his faith.
That's what blew me away when I saw his chruches website. It's not the social gospel his chruch teaches rather it's black liberation theology. (social gospel does not put one race above another or put another race down)
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/17/2008 12:32:10 PM >
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/21/2008 3:16:18 PM
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HeadHome
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Yes, IMO.
And if not, it's up to the Lord to deal with him. My job is to pray for him. Whomever the next President is, that person will need prayer like no one before...but not as much as the next President's successor, and so on until Christ returns...
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All bow down;
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/21/2008 3:23:00 PM
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gaylel1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HeadHome
Yes, IMO.
And if not, it's up to the Lord to deal with him. My job is to pray for him. Whomever the next President is, that person will need prayer like no one before...but not as much as the next President's successor, and so on until Christ returns...
Amen.....and we are not to put our trust into any man, whether it is Obama or Mc Cain or a woman like Clinton. Our trust should not come from them.
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Remembering Topher...
Visit me at http:www.gayleplace.blogspot.com or http://www.myspace.com/gaylel121
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/21/2008 3:24:55 PM
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TomTurn
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If Obama becomes President he has my prayers 100%, God calls me to do that. In the mean time I do not think it is in our best interest as a country to have him as President and will do what I can to see he is not elected.
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TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/21/2008 11:32:56 PM
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jimbob1
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I said it on another thread I'm not sure 1 can be truely saved in a church that preaches racial hatred, has the hamas terrorist manifesto on it's website, has gays and lesbians parading in clergy collars, is anti-jew, who has a pastor that drops the f-bomb in front of youth, sings worship songs to Mother-Father God, is a political vs. a salvation pulpit and Obama himself I'm sure he's not hearing from God to support the killing of innocents, or fully backing gay and lesbian calls for rights,etc.
The big ? is as he said he disagrees all of asudden w/ many of Wright's radical teachings, why does he still bring his family there to be poisoned? The sermons sound like they're straight from the pit.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/22/2008 10:22:21 AM
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IonMoon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jimbob1
The big ? is as he said he disagrees all of asudden w/ many of Wright's radical teachings, why does he still bring his family there to be poisoned? The sermons sound like they're straight from the pit.
First off, it is important to note that Wright retired. And the new pastor is said to be much more conservative.
It seems from what I have read and heard (and I haven't had enough time or inclination yet to research it in depth) Wright didn't go over the line all the time- and he seemed to be getting worse recently, and I wonder if this had anything to do with his retirement.
I have been to a few churches where the preachers used the "shock" style and I understand it, because you have to be where the people you are preaching to are and sometimes shock works to wake people up.
I have had two similar situations in my life, though. We went to a church for years, even though we disagreed with the pastor on a number of topics (quite important ones), because a church is not just a group of people being fed by the pastor... it is a group of people, and we had relationships with the people there, and that is why we stayed.
The second was the church where I was born and raised. A pastor came in right before I got married, and he was okay. He tried to revolutionize the church in a lot of ways- tried attracting younger people from the community, etc. He spent a lot of time trying to get people more involved with the church and make positive changes on an individual basis in people's lives. Lots of the congregation liked him. However, after about 15 years, he went through a personal crisis and things just crumbled... people didn't leave the church- but they tried to help him until it was too much and they had to ask him to step down.
Also, I have had a number of mentors over the years whom I learned a lot from, but also had to IGNORE a lot of. It's like AA, they say, "Take what you need and leave the rest."
And I believe Obama had spoken out about Wright's style in the past- it isn't like he is all of the sudden renouncing something he used to be okay with (but as I said, I haven't researched it enough to point to citations).
SO, that is why this is not a huge deal to me. I will judge Obama's beliefs by his words & actions- not the words and actions of others.
Tara P
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/22/2008 10:44:21 AM
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TomTurn
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Obama can out Bill Clinton Bill Clinton. He is the best teleprompter reader I have ever seen. But once he gets away from it and the pre-written speaches, just like Clinton we see who he really is. But then I am just,
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TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/22/2008 11:13:42 AM
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IonMoon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
Obama can out Bill Clinton Bill Clinton. He is the best teleprompter reader I have ever seen. But once he gets away from it and the pre-written speaches, just like Clinton we see who he really is. But then I am just,
When I saw Obama recently at a town meeting, I felt his speech was okay (probably a 7-8, but I expected better, since all the hype of his great speaking abilities). He definitely was not using a teleprompter and looked directly at the audience. He did a great job of tailoring his speech to the audience.
BUT, once he started the question and answer session he really started to shine! He absolutely nailed it. He probably gets variatios of the same 20 or so questions, so his answers are probably somewhat standard, but he did a smashing job of really listening to what the individual said and speaking directly to their concenrs. There was no spin like you typically get. And he appeared very honest and forthcoming- if he agreed with someone, he said so; if he didn't agree, he didn't dance around it- he let them know he disagreed, but was very gracious in doing so.
If he could tell someone the answer they wanted to hear, he did; if he couldn't, he didn't pretend to. A man asked what can be done to change the requirements for benefits such as food stamps, etc as the economy changes, and he point blank said "Nothing," and explained why. The man was upset because he was on disability, but making too much to qualify for other benefits. But then he went to say he would do what he could to help that man get the medical treatment and education/training he needed to get back into the work force.
While he supports a lot of social programs, he also really encourages personal responsibility.
Oh, wait, we were talking about his speaking abilities! IMO- great writer, good speaker, great with improptu!
Tara P
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/22/2008 12:15:06 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
Obama can out Bill Clinton Bill Clinton. He is the best teleprompter reader I have ever seen. But once he gets away from it and the pre-written speaches, just like Clinton we see who he really is. But then I am just,
When I saw Obama recently at a town meeting, I felt his speech was okay (probably a 7-8, but I expected better, since all the hype of his great speaking abilities). He definitely was not using a teleprompter and looked directly at the audience. He did a great job of tailoring his speech to the audience.
BUT, once he started the question and answer session he really started to shine! He absolutely nailed it. He probably gets variatios of the same 20 or so questions, so his answers are probably somewhat standard, but he did a smashing job of really listening to what the individual said and speaking directly to their concenrs. There was no spin like you typically get. And he appeared very honest and forthcoming- if he agreed with someone, he said so; if he didn't agree, he didn't dance around it- he let them know he disagreed, but was very gracious in doing so.
If he could tell someone the answer they wanted to hear, he did; if he couldn't, he didn't pretend to. A man asked what can be done to change the requirements for benefits such as food stamps, etc as the economy changes, and he point blank said "Nothing," and explained why. The man was upset because he was on disability, but making too much to qualify for other benefits. But then he went to say he would do what he could to help that man get the medical treatment and education/training he needed to get back into the work force.
While he supports a lot of social programs, he also really encourages personal responsibility.
Oh, wait, we were talking about his speaking abilities! IMO- great writer, good speaker, great with improptu!
Tara P
I agree. While I haven't been able to be there personally for when he's spoken that is the impression I get as well. It also seems to be an inherrantly Christian position as well.
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I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/22/2008 12:20:27 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
I agree. While I haven't been able to be there personally for when he's spoken that is the impression I get as well. It also seems to be an inherrantly Christian position as well.
And your definition of "An inherrantly Christian position" would be what?
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/22/2008 12:49:11 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
I agree. While I haven't been able to be there personally for when he's spoken that is the impression I get as well. It also seems to be an inherrantly Christian position as well.
And your definition of "An inherrantly Christian position" would be what?
Thanks
RC
Inherrantly Christian position:
quote:
While he supports a lot of social programs, he also really encourages personal responsibility.
Non-Christian position: Suck it up and get a job.
There you go.
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I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/22/2008 8:08:21 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Inherrantly Christian position:
quote:
While he supports a lot of social programs, he also really encourages personal responsibility.
Non-Christian position: Suck it up and get a job.
There you go.
Wow, I thought the New Testament tells us that if you don't work you don't eat.
(2Th 3:10) For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
Which translation do you use that supports your liberal postion.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/23/2008 3:40:50 AM
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jkdjr25
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From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Inherrantly Christian position:
quote:
While he supports a lot of social programs, he also really encourages personal responsibility.
Non-Christian position: Suck it up and get a job.
There you go.
Wow, I thought the New Testament tells us that if you don't work you don't eat.
(2Th 3:10) For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
Which translation do you use that supports your liberal postion.
Thanks
RC
So what you're saying is that people like myself who aren't able to work shouldn't eat. Nice to know. Thanks for that.
That's why I don't buy into the conservative spin that they're the "Christian party". People like me don't matter and that's why I say Obama is a Christan. He actually believes that helping people is part of what government is about.
I'm sorry if I sound a tad angry in this, but this is the argument that always gets brought up as an excuse not to help people who need it. That's not what the verse intended and I'm tired of seeing it misused like that.
< Message edited by jkdjr25 -- 3/23/2008 3:52:48 AM >
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I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/23/2008 10:04:48 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
So what you're saying is that people like myself who aren't able to work shouldn't eat. Nice to know. Thanks for that.
That's why I don't buy into the conservative spin that they're the "Christian party". People like me don't matter and that's why I say Obama is a Christan. He actually believes that helping people is part of what government is about.
I'm sorry if I sound a tad angry in this, but this is the argument that always gets brought up as an excuse not to help people who need it. That's not what the verse intended and I'm tired of seeing it misused like that.
The quote I gave you was from the New Testament, not the Conservative Manifesto.
Thanks
RC
< Message edited by rcjames -- 3/23/2008 10:10:56 AM >
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/23/2008 11:54:43 AM
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jkdjr25
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From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
So what you're saying is that people like myself who aren't able to work shouldn't eat. Nice to know. Thanks for that.
That's why I don't buy into the conservative spin that they're the "Christian party". People like me don't matter and that's why I say Obama is a Christan. He actually believes that helping people is part of what government is about.
I'm sorry if I sound a tad angry in this, but this is the argument that always gets brought up as an excuse not to help people who need it. That's not what the verse intended and I'm tired of seeing it misused like that.
The quote I gave you was from the New Testament, not the Conservative Manifesto.
Thanks
RC
Alright but you didn't address my question. By the way you put that forth you seem to think that people not able to work should starve. I'm just trying to get clarification on who is worthy of help in your opinion. It would also be worth debating, in another thread, if what Christ said was an admonition to individuals or to Governments.
Aside from his own admission that welfare has created a cycle of poverty and his concern over how to fix it, Obama doesn't seem to want to put restrictions on who is worthy of assistance.
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I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/23/2008 4:52:33 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Alright but you didn't address my question. By the way you put that forth you seem to think that people not able to work should starve. I'm just trying to get clarification on who is worthy of help in your opinion. It would also be worth debating, in another thread, if what Christ said was an admonition to individuals or to Governments.
I shall not go against Scripture, but the term "Would not work" seems to reference able bodied folks that refuse to work.
It seems that every time the gov. tries to get the welfare/disabled folks to do work they can do to recieve the givaways; the libs run to sue and just want the welfare money.
There are many disabled who could work at some meaningful job, but it would screw up their checks; so they stay home and complain about the money they recieve.
There is never a week goes by that someone does not come by and want to do some work, but want the money under the table. That is illegal of course, so I do not bite.
Obama just promises more and more for less and less; and that just will not work.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/23/2008 5:18:02 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Alright but you didn't address my question. By the way you put that forth you seem to think that people not able to work should starve. I'm just trying to get clarification on who is worthy of help in your opinion. It would also be worth debating, in another thread, if what Christ said was an admonition to individuals or to Governments.
I shall not go against Scripture, but the term "Would not work" seems to reference able bodied folks that refuse to work.
It seems that every time the gov. tries to get the welfare/disabled folks to do work they can do to recieve the givaways; the libs run to sue and just want the welfare money.
There are many disabled who could work at some meaningful job, but it would screw up their checks; so they stay home and complain about the money they recieve.
There is never a week goes by that someone does not come by and want to do some work, but want the money under the table. That is illegal of course, so I do not bite.
Obama just promises more and more for less and less; and that just will not work.
Thsnks
RC
Acutally Obama has mentioned that, in relation to things like student loans, he wants to put a community service clause in so people have to give back. It's not outside the realm of possibility that he'd do so with other programs as well, provided that people are able to do something.
There are a lot of people who are disabled and can work, there are also a lot of them who can't. You can't always tell by looking at a person either. I've got enough things wrong with me that, after a near fatal anemia attack, he doesn't want me working anymore. Things like stress, odors and dust combine with other things to make my health a major issue for me. For many people in similair situations it's not about not wanting to work, it's about not being able to work.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/23/2008 5:22:27 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
Acutally Obama has mentioned that, in relation to things like student loans, he wants to put a community service clause in so people have to give back.
Would that have anything to do with his wife complaining that she was having to pay off the money it took for her to go to Princeton? Life is so unfair but then I am just,
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TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/23/2008 6:10:17 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
There are a lot of people who are disabled and can work, there are also a lot of them who can't. You can't always tell by looking at a person either. I've got enough things wrong with me that, after a near fatal anemia attack, he doesn't want me working anymore.
Asthma is nothing to laugh at. But I think many people, including me, will say it is our place to be there for you in most areas, not the governments. I am willing to have some of my tax dollars go to assist those who need some assit but the Feds have shown not to be up to the task in a big way.
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