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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/3/2008 12:52:51 PM
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stellaluna
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I still don't think that anyone against smoking bans has thoroughly commented on the fact that it is not the government cracking down on smokers and taking away their perceived right willy nilly...but that bans are being put into place because non-smokers ask for them.
You can't blame the government if the government is doing the will of the people. In most places, smoking ordinances are enacted only after a citizen group brings the issue to the attention of local government. They are not being initiated by elected officials themselves.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/3/2008 12:54:07 PM
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DenimDiva
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everythingat- I sent you a pm.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/3/2008 1:01:40 PM
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DenimDiva
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I'd still like to know. My dad's side of the family come from small towns (5-10 thousand) in South Carolina around the Florence area where tobacco is still a very big crop and where tobacco tax is very, very low. Yet, smokers are still in the minority.
That's a small town?
The town I was talking about when I lived in Indiana was about 800.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/3/2008 3:36:29 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I'd still like to know. My dad's side of the family come from small towns (5-10 thousand) in South Carolina around the Florence area where tobacco is still a very big crop and where tobacco tax is very, very low. Yet, smokers are still in the minority.
That's a small town?
The town I was talking about when I lived in Indiana was about 800.
That's a whole other dynamic, then. I've never been to Indiana, but towns with less than 1000 in northwest Florida where I grew up seldom had more than a convenience store or two and maybe a small grocery store. Mainly, they drove to "the city" where there were 5-10 thousand to eat out. The place where my wife was raised, Bratt, FL, had only one traffic light - flashing yellow - and a couple of small stores. People grew most of their own food and a lot of the special meals were get-togethers at the church.
Speaking of churches, when I was growing up in 60s and there seemed to be more smokers, I remember seeing men come outside between services to have a cigarette. Nobody would have even considered smoking inside even when most people didn't think smoking was harmful. That strikes me as, at least, interesting.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 5:30:27 AM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1683
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
The grocers in my area went no-smoking quite a number of years before restaurants.
The hospitals also went non-smoking several years back. At first, smoking was allowed outside, but they all tended to congregate just outside entrances, making coming & going unpleasant. Then the hospital built add-on sunrooms where smokers could go without being exposed to the rain and the worst of the cold (which is seldom that extreme this far south).
So what you are saying is that the problem was in fact taking care of itself without government intervention? That is my whole point, the problem was recently beginning to take care of itself yet the government butted in anyway. It looks like the places you HAD to go to were already smoke free, the rest of the places presented a choice to you whether to go or not. And most importantly the owner of those businesses used to have the right to either cater to your wants/desires or not.
_____________________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 8:37:54 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EverLearning
So what you are saying is that the problem was in fact taking care of itself without government intervention? That is my whole point, the problem was recently beginning to take care of itself yet the government butted in anyway. It looks like the places you HAD to go to were already smoke free, the rest of the places presented a choice to you whether to go or not. And most importantly the owner of those businesses used to have the right to either cater to your wants/desires or not.
I'm saying that MEDICAL professionals saw the harm and danger smoking was doing to patients and staff alike. Few other business owners had the backbone to stand up to smokers and risk any profit. There were PLENTY of places that I had to go where smoking was allowed - like places to buy tags, renew licenses, serve on jury duty - but those were government buildings so...
I used to buy into the absurd belief that whatever is good for business is good for everyone. History just doesn't support that as a whole.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 9:50:10 AM
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Zhi
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quote:
So what you are saying is that the problem was in fact taking care of itself without government intervention? That is my whole point, the problem was recently beginning to take care of itself yet the government butted in anyway. It looks like the places you HAD to go to were already smoke free, the rest of the places presented a choice to you whether to go or not. And most importantly the owner of those businesses used to have the right to either cater to your wants/desires or not.
But the "government intervention" is not, in almost every case of smoking bans, the big shadowy "government" stepping in and big brothering at everyone. It's the true government, the "We the people", creating petitions and saying "not in my town" or "not in my state". It's the customers, or would-be customers, of those businesses stepping up and telling those businesses what they want, since the businesses were apparently unwilling to listen otherwise. So it certainly was the problem taking care of itself... by the general community of an overwhelming majority putting their foot down and saying "We've had it. Start showing concern for other people for once and stop causing unpleasant experiences and harming the health of the rest of us with your dirty nasty habit."
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 10:15:48 AM
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stellaluna
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^^ You can repeat that as much as you want. No one has addressed my same sentiments yet.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 11:42:09 AM
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zmanfan38
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
^^ You can repeat that as much as you want. No one has addressed my same sentiments yet.
Nor mine. I've been repeating myself on every page since about page 4 that the government didn't dream up smoking bans on their own. Non smokers gave the gutless cowards of the business world fair warning and then we got it done.
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Looking for tips on moving out of state. <--LINK
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 3:17:40 PM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
It's more fun to blame big brother than to take responsibility for your actions and how they affect other people. 
My big brother was a fine example.
He smoked those ones with the charcoal thingies in the filter.
I don't blame him.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 3:23:55 PM
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JimboFletch
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I woke up, got clean & dressed, had breakfast, drove to work - and past a store advertising a special on my old brand - and worked on some fairly stressful items. All without the teeniest craving for tobacco.
PRICELESS!
I've said several times during my journey to freedom that I wouldn't go back to tobacco if I could be given an ironclad guarantee that I'd never have a tobacco-related health problem and if I was given a lifetime supply of my old brand. The freedom I now enjoy is GRAND.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 3:45:31 PM
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mapachito13
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Government has always stepped in to make laws whose sole purpose are to protect the public health and safety. Speed limit laws, safety belt laws, child seat laws, but these laws don't generate one tenth the debate as a smoker's ban does. Nicotine is intentionally added to cigarettes. Why? To keep the user's of the product addicted. But dare not call a smoker a drug addict even though it's a textbook description of one. Is that why this topic gets so emotional for the hard core nicotine user?
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 3:52:50 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10840
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Okay folks.
When I need to go to the Health and Fitness thread that deals with the smoking addiction I know where it is...
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 4:06:28 PM
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garsyt
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WAY TO GO Jimbo!!
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Leave me alone - I'm old and deserve a nap!
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 4:40:38 PM
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rnershigh
Posts: 1770
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From: DC metro area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Government has always stepped in to make laws whose sole purpose are to protect the public health and safety. Speed limit laws, safety belt laws, child seat laws, but these laws don't generate one tenth the debate as a smoker's ban does. Nicotine is intentionally added to cigarettes. Why? To keep the user's of the product addicted. But dare not call a smoker a drug addict even though it's a textbook description of one. Is that why this topic gets so emotional for the hard core nicotine user?
Nicotine is actually found naturally in the tobacco plant. Nicotine produces a euphoric high for the person and this is why so many people are addicted to cigarettes and why it is very hard for them to quit smoking. Your body grows dependent on the nicotine and craves it, so in that regard, it is an addiction that is not dissimilar to any other drug addiction such as heroin or cocaine use, in the physiological and psychological characteristics it produces in the addict. The presence of nicotine causes the neurons and neurotransmitters in the brain of a smoker to undergo a change, now the brain must have the nicotine in order to function properly. Quitting is difficult as the body actually needs the nicotine to function, although it's only short term, this is why it's hard for many smokers to quit.
A person who is an addict, whatever substance they are abusing, usually (not always, but like most addictions, this is usually the case) don't have a care for how their addiction affects people around them. This is why I believe in this instance, with cigarettes being banned in more and more places, is a good thing.
Nicotine meets both the psychological and physiological measures of addiction:
Psychological - People who are addicted to something will use it compulsively, without regard for its negative effects on their health or their life. A good example would be someone who continues to smoke, even as they use an oxygen tank to breathe because of the damage smoking has done to their lungs.
Physiological - Neuroscientists call anything that turns on the reward pathway in the brain addictive. Because stimulating this neural circuitry makes you feel so good, you will continue to do it again and again to get those feelings back.
_____________________________
O Grave! where is thy Victory?
O Death! where is thy Sting?
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/4/2008 4:54:48 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 4680
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rnershigh
...Nicotine produces a euphoric high for the person and this is why so many people are addicted to cigarettes and why it is very hard for them to quit smoking...
That is, sadly, true for a brief time and, thereafter, on rare and unpredictable occasions. The majority of the time, the nicotine fix simply prevents withdrawal symptoms.
quote:
The presence of nicotine causes the neurons and neurotransmitters in the brain of a smoker to undergo a change, now the brain must have the nicotine in order to function properly. Quitting is difficult as the body actually needs the nicotine to function, although it's only short term, this is why it's hard for many smokers to quit.
That's the main reason quitting is so hard. It isn't the desire to get any kind of high, it's just to feel "normal" enough to function. The first 5 days without nicotine is extremely difficult as the body rids itself of the nicotine. Even then, many things will trigger strong cravings weeks and months after a person is nicotine free.
Quiting ain't for sissies.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/6/2008 2:24:59 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 5063
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zmanfan38
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
^^ You can repeat that as much as you want. No one has addressed my same sentiments yet.
Nor mine. I've been repeating myself on every page since about page 4 that the government didn't dream up smoking bans on their own. Non smokers gave the gutless cowards of the business world fair warning and then we got it done.
The gov't didn't dream up abortion on it's own either. Roe vs. Wade, et al, is compliments of "concerned citizens" banning together to get the gov't to do something.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/6/2008 3:09:03 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 948
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A just machine to make big decisions
Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision
Well be clean when their work is done
Well be eternally free yes and eternally young
What a beautiful world this will be
What a glorious time to be free
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John Galt '08
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