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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 12:35:04 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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quote:
They can go anywhere they want, as long as they don't smoke in enclosed public spaces like restaurants.
And where would anywhere be? Restaurants use to have closed smoking rooms, now you can't even smoke outside with the No Smoking and No Loitering signs everywhere.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 2:16:04 AM
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Zhi
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quote:
And where would anywhere be? Restaurants use to have closed smoking rooms, now you can't even smoke outside with the No Smoking and No Loitering signs everywhere.
No, they usually didn't. They had signs that said "smoking" and "non-smoking". No airlocks, and smoke, being a non-sentient vapor, is not really good about reading signs and staying put.
How long does visiting a restaurant take? An hour? Two? Can't smokers go an hour or two without a cigarrette? If someone can't go an hour or two without alcohol, there's usually an intervention. If you tell me that someone can't go a single hour without partaking in some sort of non-life-essential substance in order to eat a meal, the only sympathy I'm going to be feeling is of the "that person seriously needs immediate professional help and possibly rehab" kind.
As for smoking outside, my state has a statewide smoking ban and I have yet to see a bar, restaurant, or bowling alley without a smoking area readily available outside... usually heated with its own awning and so forth because it's cold here.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 7:52:00 AM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 9325
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From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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When we go to a restaurant, hospital, the zoo, or other non-smoking area...my husband smokes once he is out of the car. He also strips the cigarette when he is done and puts the butt in his pocket to dispose of later. At church, he walks to the far end of the parking lot to smoke. Not an inconvenience at all, just consideration of others.
Pat, it sounds like you are probably a smoker (forgive my assumption if I am wrong). Why should you smoke in the doorway of a restaurant, and cause my 8 year old little boy or my 80 year old great aunt to have a coughing fit or asthma attack if they want to eat in the same restaurant and have to walk through the smoke haze first? Why should you have that right? Why shouldn't my 8 year old and my aunt have the right to breathe when they leave the house?
_____________________________
<----We love you, Mom!!!
But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation.
I will sing to the Lord, for he has been good to me.
~Psalm 13:5-6~
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 8:37:33 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 3707
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
quote:
They can go anywhere they want, as long as they don't smoke in enclosed public spaces like restaurants.
And where would anywhere be? Restaurants use to have closed smoking rooms, now you can't even smoke outside with the No Smoking and No Loitering signs everywhere.
Well, Praise God! The most wonderful thing about being free of the Nicotine Slave Master is that I no longer have to pay it homage by planning my entire life around two things: 1) having an ample supply and 2) having ample opportunity to get my fix before I went bonkers. I eventually grew tired of trying to serve two masters.
BTW, if you have ever been in any restaurant that truly had closed smoking rooms that actually confined cigarette smoke, then I think you are special. I have never encountered such an establishment. I invariably ended up next to the smoking area (which was never physically closed) or across the wall that was between 4 and 5 feet tall but not all the way to the ceiling.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 12:06:51 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 2826
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
quote:
They can go anywhere they want, as long as they don't smoke in enclosed public spaces like restaurants.
And where would anywhere be? Restaurants use to have closed smoking rooms, now you can't even smoke outside with the No Smoking and No Loitering signs everywhere.
How about your vehicle?
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 12:27:28 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 369
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quote:
BTW, if you have ever been in any restaurant that truly had closed smoking rooms that actually confined cigarette smoke, then I think you are special.
No, I'm not talking about smoking sections, areas, or special tables, I'm talking about many restaurants and work places had enclosed behind doors smoking rooms with exhaust fans. You could eat and drink in there or you could choose to go there after you finished eating your meal.
But like where I use to work the biggest complainers of the non-smokers group came in and sat with the smokers. When asked why, the answer was always the same: "We like and want your company; the lunch room isn't the same without you all in there; we just don't like the fact that you smoke."
quote:
Pat, it sounds like you are probably a smoker (forgive my assumption if I am wrong). Why should you smoke in the doorway of a restaurant, and cause my 8 year old little boy or my 80 year old great aunt to have a coughing fit or asthma attack if they want to eat in the same restaurant and have to walk through the smoke haze first? Why should you have that right? Why shouldn't my 8 year old and my aunt have the right to breathe when they leave the house?
I have never smoked in the doorway of a restaurant or where others had need to walk through the smoke. Yes, I am a smoker, I started when I was 13, in three months I'll be 67 years old. When I started I thought it was okay, the Preacher, elders, youth director, choir director, and many others smoked. Our homes were heated with coal or wood burning stoves, and we had outhouses too; I guess no-body seemed to noticed the people around them that smoked --- everyone smoked outside away from others or in their own homes --- bars and back-rooms were the only exception to this rule. That's how I grew-up and that's how I still do today.
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How long does visiting a restaurant take? An hour? Two? Can't smokers go an hour or two without a cigarette?
I do not need, nor do most smokers, to smoke in a restaurant, all they want is designated places to go to smoke where non-smokers are not allowed, so that non-smokers will have nothing to complain about.
quote:
As for smoking outside, my state has a statewide smoking ban and I have yet to see a bar, restaurant, or bowling alley without a smoking area readily available outside... usually heated with its own awning and so forth because it's cold here.
The new laws took what little we did have away; and added another tax onto every pack; what once cost 25 cents now cost $6.48 a pack. Stupid!!
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 1:43:40 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 656
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quote:
No, I'm not talking about smoking sections, areas, or special tables, I'm talking about many restaurants and work places had enclosed behind doors smoking rooms with exhaust fans. You could eat and drink in there or you could choose to go there after you finished eating your meal.
But like where I use to work the biggest complainers of the non-smokers group came in and sat with the smokers. When asked why, the answer was always the same: "We like and want your company; the lunch room isn't the same without you all in there; we just don't like the fact that you smoke."
I've never seen that. If that had been common in Colorado, maybe we wouldn't have passed a statewide smoking ban. *shrug*
It's interesting that they said they didn't like the fact you smoked, not that they didn't like the smoke. Maybe they were worried about your health and life expectancy, rather than the atmosphere.
quote:
I have never smoked in the doorway of a restaurant or where others had need to walk through the smoke. Yes, I am a smoker, I started when I was 13, in three months I'll be 67 years old. When I started I thought it was okay, the Preacher, elders, youth director, choir director, and many others smoked. Our homes were heated with coal or wood burning stoves, and we had outhouses too; I guess no-body seemed to noticed the people around them that smoked --- everyone smoked outside away from others or in their own homes --- bars and back-rooms were the only exception to this rule. That's how I grew-up and that's how I still do today.
If people had managed to be this considerate around here, I don't think they would have ever come up with the smoking ban, much less passed it.
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I do not need, nor do most smokers, to smoke in a restaurant, all they want is designated places to go to smoke where non-smokers are not allowed, so that non-smokers will have nothing to complain about.
We have those here. Some are outdoor patios. Some involve the sidewalk. I am allergic to tobacco but I don't complain about people smoking on the sidewalk.
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The new laws took what little we did have away; and added another tax onto every pack; what once cost 25 cents now cost $6.48 a pack. Stupid!!
Quite the contrary, the new law here added places specifically for considerate smokers. Previously considerate smokers had smoked outside with no facilities, now many restaurants have added lovely patios, heated areas, with benches and ashtrays for smokers, because the assumption is that smokers will all be outside and the restaurants have decided to make them a comfortable area because of that. It's good for business.
As for taxes, that's an entirely separate law, but I think you'll find that that applies to things like gasoline and alcohol as well. Sales tax in general has risen over the years.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 2:06:30 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 3707
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
quote:
No, I'm not talking about smoking sections, areas, or special tables, I'm talking about many restaurants and work places had enclosed behind doors smoking rooms with exhaust fans. You could eat and drink in there or you could choose to go there after you finished eating your meal.
But like where I use to work the biggest complainers of the non-smokers group came in and sat with the smokers. When asked why, the answer was always the same: "We like and want your company; the lunch room isn't the same without you all in there; we just don't like the fact that you smoke."
I've never seen that. If that had been common in Colorado, maybe we wouldn't have passed a statewide smoking ban. *shrug*
I've never seen it either, though I'm a mere 56 and have only spent time in cities from Key West to New London, CT and few places west (Dallas, Denver, San Jose) plus a few places overseas like Santo Domingo, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Brazil, Scotland, Denmark Germany, Israel, Italy to name a few. It could just be that I've lived a somewhat sheltered life.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 2:13:13 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 369
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quote:
How about your vehicle?
I do not smoke in any vehicle.
I do smoke in one designated area of my home when the weather is far too bad to smoke outside.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 2:22:48 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 369
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quote:
I've never seen it either, though I'm a mere 56 and have only spent time in cities from Key West to New London, CT and few places west (Dallas, Denver, San Jose) plus a few places overseas like Santo Domingo, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Brazil, Scotland, Denmark Germany, Israel, Italy to name a few. It could just be that I've lived a somewhat sheltered life.
Guess you've never been in a Bob Evens, Parks Landing, P.J.'s, C.J.'s, and other such places found on the east coast; and of course it depended on the owners and management at each place too --- but they're no longer allowed to decide what is or isn't good for 'their' business anymore.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 2:27:34 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 9325
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From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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I've never seen a completely separate smoking area. I live in upstate NY. I do know business owners can get waivers for the smoking ban if they can prove they have a completely separate area, as you describe.
I get that people smoke. (Remember, my husband does, and I love him very much.) I do not get the whining about smoker's rights when there are LOTS of nonsmokers who get genuinely ill from being around cigarette smoke. I can't get past the heart attitude that says *I* should be able to do what *I* want, and I don't care who suffers for it. I know all smokers do not have this attitude because I'm married to one who doesn't.
_____________________________
<----We love you, Mom!!!
But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation.
I will sing to the Lord, for he has been good to me.
~Psalm 13:5-6~
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 2:33:36 PM
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peculiar_lady2
Posts: 11744
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From: Between Hither and Yon
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quote:
Why should you smoke in the doorway of a restaurant, and cause my 8 year old little boy or my 80 year old great aunt to have a coughing fit or asthma attack if they want to eat in the same restaurant and have to walk through the smoke haze first? Why should you have that right? Why shouldn't my 8 year old and my aunt have the right to breathe when they leave the house?
that's why I like businesses that have a "50 ft" rule or so around their doors (military facilities have that rule). I can't tell you how many times I have had to change where we are going because of people standing at the door of a restaurant smoking....the worst for me is when I see the employees of that business doing it!!! I do complain, but there is nothing I can do about my own allergy to the stuff
I lived in Germany for a few years, and even though everyone over there smokes, they are nice and don't do it in rude ways (their whole culture is like that...they are not a rude people in general and do not put up with people being rude about anything). I never once saw someone smoking in an inappropriate place...and this is in a country that has "smoking stands" in the airport!!! I am not against smoking...if you want to kill yourself then that's your thing...but I want to BREATHE...and I want to be able to TALK (which I can't do if I am around smoke)...and I have that right!!!
btw...there is a PSA here that I saw on tv last night....it says in the PSA that second hand smoke kills over 700 people in Oklahoma EVERY YEAR. According to what I can find in the report that comes out of... 5,800 people die EVERY YEAR in Oklahoma because of smoking itself (plus the other 700 from second hand smoke!!!)
_____________________________
Proud Army Wife
Mom to Jake, Hannah, Emma, and Jack
Baby Boy due June 25, 2008
"God has a plan for your life...and so does everybody else." ~said by Doinkdom
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 3:52:27 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 6665
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From: Washington State
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I'm from WA state and I've never been to a place that had a separate room for smoking either. Before the ban here, if you went to a restaurant, you'd get a generous dose of smoke no matter where you sat - smoking or non. And at least in my town, there simply were NO non-smoking restaurants period.
They also passed some laws regarding smoking at entrances. I know when I was in college and lived in the dorms, my dorm room was right above an entrance. We had no A/C or anything, so the only way to keep your room cool at certain times of the year was to open your window. If I opened my window though, all the smoke from the smokers went straight into my room. I literally couldn't get away from it - even in my own tiny place of living.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
If I haven't scared you away, join me here...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 4:04:45 PM
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Starbucks880
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I don't care about smokers supposed rights. I think any inside area and areas around doors where people enter and exit a building should be smoke free. I don't care what they do outside, as long as they are considerate to tohers. What about MY rights? I think I should be able to go in public areas and breathe clean air. I can't very well hold my breath and not breathe until they leave. I shouldn't have to leave just because someone wants a cigarette. Not to mention that I have very severe asthma and smoke sends me into an asthma attack, which I have had to be taken away to the ER before because of smokers. If smoking only affected that person without bothering everyone else, then I might agree with you, but I have the right to not be around them or breathe their smoke. If you want to smoke, take it outside and far away from me.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 4:22:59 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1188
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quote:
quote:
I've never seen it either, though I'm a mere 56 and have only spent time in cities from Key West to New London, CT and few places west (Dallas, Denver, San Jose) plus a few places overseas like Santo Domingo, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Brazil, Scotland, Denmark Germany, Israel, Italy to name a few. It could just be that I've lived a somewhat sheltered life.
Guess you've never been in a Bob Evens, Parks Landing, P.J.'s, C.J.'s, and other such places found on the east coast; and of course it depended on the owners and management at each place too --- but they're no longer allowed to decide what is or isn't good for 'their' business anymore.
just this week a long time pub owner in our area was interviewed, he said business had increased since the ban and the smokers and non smokers alike were happy with the ban.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 4:25:34 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 369
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quote:
I lived in Germany for a few years, and even though everyone over there smokes, they are nice and don't do it in rude ways (their whole culture is like that...they are not a rude people in general and do not put up with people being rude about anything). I never once saw someone smoking in an inappropriate place...and this is in a country that has "smoking stands" in the airport!!! I am not against smoking...if you want to kill yourself then that's your thing..
That's how it should be here in the states; and at one time it was!!
quote:
but I want to BREATHE...and I want to be able to TALK (which I can't do if I am around smoke)...and I have that right!!!
However, there are those of us who also want to BREATHE...and to TALK --- which I can't do if I'm around many types of perfumed scented products: hair-spray, after-shave, cologne, some types of deodorants, scented candles, scented rug & room freshers, some furnisher cleaners & polishes. and etc. Scents people wear, and things used, in Public places daily, but you don't hear me complaining (only stating a fact) and or try to change the laws to prevent the use of these products just because I have a personal problem being around them.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 4:28:37 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 6665
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From: Washington State
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I want to be able to eat melons, but I can't and I have to pass on any fruit dishes that contain them because I'm severely allergic. I don't think places should ban those items for me.
However, smoking affects every single person out there in a negative way and physically harms their health. This is not a "preference", this is a public health issue. So, keep your carginogens to yourself and stop expecting the rest of us to put our health at risk for your nasty habit.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
If I haven't scared you away, join me here...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 4:34:41 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 3707
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
However, there are those of us who also want to BREATHE...and to TALK --- which I can't do if I'm around many types of perfumed scented products: hair-spray, after-shave, cologne, some types of deodorants, scented candles, scented rug & room freshers, some furnisher cleaners & polishes. and etc. Scents people wear, and things used, in Public places daily, but you don't hear me complaining (only stating a fact) and or try to change the laws to prevent the use of these products just because I have a personal problem being around them.
Pat, one doesn't make the other okay. That's the same type arguments I heard in the 70s about marijuana being no worse than getting tanked on booze.
But the fact remains, smoking doesn't enhance a single solitary thing for anyone but the smoker. It only feeds the nicotine addict's need to get their fix to avoid withdrawal. That's all the "Ahhh...." moment is, beating back withdrawal.
And, Pat, it is a grand experience to now be able to enjoy a meal with family and friends, then linger 20-30 minutes chatting and enjoying each other's company without having the Nicotine Slave Master yanking my chain to feed it.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 4:59:02 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 369
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quote:
Pat, one doesn't make the other okay.
TRUE!!
quote:
It only feeds the nicotine addict's need to get their fix to avoid withdrawal. That's all the "Ahhh...." moment is, beating back withdrawal.
Again TRUE!! However, I've done it so many times over the years only to go back to it again (mostly because I don't like the person on the other side of it) that I don't care to try anymore. Did you ever flunk 3rd grade 17 times? That's what it feels like, so I quit trying.
quote:
And, Pat, it is a grand experience to now be able to enjoy a meal with family and friends, then linger 20-30 minutes chatting and enjoying each other's company without having the Nicotine Slave Master yanking my chain to feed it.
I am GLAD for you; I TRULY am!! I rejoice for your victory; my husband's too!! He quit 35 years ago. I pray God's continual blessings upon you and yours.
Pat
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 7:29:18 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 2826
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I'm in Texas. We had one restaurant that had an entirely separate smoking room with a separate exhaust. Sadly, it was part of a chain that closed a couple of years ago. You can't smoke in most fastfood restaurants around here, but I can only think of two sit-down restaurants that don't allow smoking. No...four. There may be a few more.
(Hey Kristin--I'm allergic to melons, too! I've never known anyone else who was and no one ever believes me when I tell them I am!)
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 8:15:08 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1188
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quote:
It only feeds the nicotine addict's need to get their fix to avoid withdrawal. That's all the "Ahhh...." moment is, beating back withdrawal.
quote:
Again TRUE!! However, I've done it so many times over the years only to go back to it again (mostly because I don't like the person on the other side of it) that I don't care to try anymore. Did you ever flunk 3rd grade 17 times? That's what it feels like, so I quit trying.
Pat
surely i have no doubt that the addiction can be fierce and this is difficult for you, but if your smoke is bad for you, and bad for the bystander, why should the bystander carry the burden of addiction? it's the smoker's burden.
< Message edited by mrsdash -- 3/11/2008 9:27:21 PM >
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 10:52:13 PM
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zmanfan38
Posts: 7593
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: ...for it's root, root, root for the CUBBIES!!!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
just this week a long time pub owner in our area was interviewed, he said business had increased since the ban and the smokers and non smokers alike were happy with the ban.
I've done some Googling and found this to be true for most of the links that come up.
It makes sense, doesn't it? Any restaurant with a smoking "section" is a smoking restaurant. That makes it non-accessible to a lot of people. If there is truly no smoking in a restaurant, then it's accessible to everybody, thus increasing it's patrons and of course the bottom line.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 3/11/2008 11:08:03 PM
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garsyt
Posts: 2017
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From: the bottom of the laundry basket
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quote:
However, there are those of us who also want to BREATHE...and to TALK --- which I can't do if I'm around many types of perfumed scented products: hair-spray, after-shave, cologne, some types of deodorants, scented candles, scented rug & room freshers, some furnisher cleaners & polishes. and etc. Scents people wear, and things used, in Public places daily, but you don't hear me complaining (only stating a fact) and or try to change the laws to prevent the use of these products just because I have a personal problem being around them.
Then you of all people should be able to understand. My child's school has a policy for staff and teachers and anyone who works as a volunteer needs to keep the scents to a minimum. Tis a good thing because we are still not completely sure of all of my youngest ds allergy issues. BUT that said - we always seem to run into more smokers then any of those other problems put together and sometimes (in the case of an old neighbor) several of those other air-polluting smells and allergy causing scents AND smoking all at the same time!
Blessings,
Garsy
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But, he also smokes in the hospital so he is super addicted.
