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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 9:46:33 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: amyk
My issue with smoking bans is that it is once again the government stepping in and telling a business owner what he/she can or cannot allow on his/her own property. I am all for smoking bans in government-owned buildings, hospitals, etc. In fact, I am for smoking bans in privately-owned businesses AS LONG AS THE BAN IS ENACTED BY THE OWNER, not by the government.
What if government decides that reading a Bible or praying in a restaurant is somehow bad for the general public and they enact a law that forbids Bible-reading or praying in restaurants?
Just curious, Would you be offended if a quarter of the people in your church lit up cigarettes during a worship service - assuming they bring ash trays to protect the carpet?
Oh, and isn't the topic about the rights of SMOKERS? Business interests aren't relevant to this topic.
< Message edited by JimboFletch -- 2/28/2008 9:52:38 AM >
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 10:56:48 AM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1107
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EverLearning
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
guess what? the govt has rules, laws about those auto paint fumes.
That wasn't my question. I specifically asked if some whiner should be able to stop them from spraying so he can go sit in their paint booth, after all it is a business is it not?
quote:
there's a silly notion here about private property. if you are inviting, even trying to lure in the public to your property as customers, you now have responsibiblity to the public that is on your private property. you INVITED the public.
Silly notion of private propery?
You invited the public but you do not have to cater to every segment of the public.
quote:
now tell me why do smokers have perceivingly more rights than non smokers?
I never said they did, i said they have equal rights. A business owner should be able to allow that segment of the population if they want.
quote:
a smoker can smoke in a restaurant though proven harmful and tioxic, and the non smoker has the right to stay home? why doesn't the smoker have the right to stay home if he wants to smoke?
The non-smoker has every right to visit non-smoking establishments and speak with their dollars to create more of them.
quote:
why would it be fair to have all restaurants allow smoke, but not fair to have all smoke free establishments?
See this is the problem you guys see it as an either/or, all or nothing when there is room for both groups. It would not be fair to have all restaurants smoking but it also isn't fair to force them all to be non-smoking.
so auto paint booths invite people to sit in them? their business is there to provide a place for people to sit in auto paint booths?
as many of us pointed out, before our ban, no smoke free locations available. none. the choice was staying home. why not give THAT right and freedom to the SMOKER ?
not about catering to public, it's about safety. and about signing on for accountability and regulation when you CHOOSE to operate a business.
granted, people, voting people should have say in how the govt regulates.
and most smoking bans i know of were voted in BTW.
now here you can't come into a restaurant naked or smoking.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 11:11:00 AM
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rainbowtvp
Posts: 1029
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: The Unted State of Confusion
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EverLearning
That wasn't my question. I specifically asked if some whiner should be able to stop them from spraying so he can go sit in their paint booth, after all it is a business is it not?
A paint booth is not accessible to the public. A business has the right to make parts of their business inaccesible to the public. They do not have the right to make their business (or parts of it) inaccessible to a segment of the public.
For instance... I cannot open a restaurant and have it not be handicap accessible ; or have all of it but the balcony handicap accessible; or everything but the bathrooms handicap accessible.
Every part of my business that is accessible to some of the public must be accessible to all of it. (Some areas may be off limits to the public in general, though, like your example of the paint booth, or employee break rooms, closets, kitchens, storage areas, etc)
quote:
I never said they did, i said they have equal rights. A business owner should be able to allow that segment of the population if they want.
The non-smoker has every right to visit non-smoking establishments and speak with their dollars to create more of them.
See this is the problem you guys see it as an either/or, all or nothing when there is room for both groups. It would not be fair to have all restaurants smoking but it also isn't fair to force them all to be non-smoking.
Here is what you are missing:
If an establishment is smoking... some people cannot access it (people who are made ill by smoke); if an establishment is non-smoking- everyone can access it (but smokers must refrain from smoking while there).
There is nothing preventing a smoker from entering a non-smoking restaurant. There is something that prevents people who get ill from smoke from entering a restaurant that is smoke-filled.
Just as having a ramp in a restaurant does not prevent people who walk from going in, but NOT having a ramp does prevent people who use a wheelchair from entering.
Allowing smoking in an establishment limits the use by a certain segment of the population; banning smoking does not.
Tara P
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 11:12:53 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10859
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From: Lone Star State
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I just found out that each Justice on the Supreme Court still has their own spittoon.
Under trivia here.
I don't know about being naked under the robes though....
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 11:15:37 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10859
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From: Lone Star State
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quote:
Allowing smoking in an establishment limits the use by a certain segment of the population; banning smoking does not. Allowing certain plants that cause allergic reactions in people in a public park limits the use of that establishment by that segment of the population too.
What can we do about that? 
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 11:16:42 AM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 8019
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
Allowing smoking in an establishment limits the use by a certain segment of the population; banning smoking does not. Allowing certain plants that cause allergic reactions in people in a public park limits the use of that establishment by that segment of the population too.
What can we do about that?
I dunno, Ben. What say we get the gov't to solve it for us? 
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The Lioness Rules and Rocks! ~ Bluestone
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 12:02:13 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10859
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From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
Allowing smoking in an establishment limits the use by a certain segment of the population; banning smoking does not. Allowing certain plants that cause allergic reactions in people in a public park limits the use of that establishment by that segment of the population too.
What can we do about that?
If nicotine addicts use tobacco in its natural, unprocessed form then you might have a valid point. But the many chemicals added to the potion plus it being burned in special paper makes it closer to sitting in a paint booth.
Does anyone support my right to light a length of hemp rope and, then, carrying it around in restaurants and other crowded places while it smolders? (Even though it's not delivering any nicotine to any addicts, just the simple joy of burning something around others.)
Or what about my right to blast a boom box with my favorite Polka Hip Hop in those same settings?
Jimbo, my point isn't about smoking anything, natural or processed. It is about the right of allergy sufferers to enjoy the public park when the flowers are blooming.
And if the restaurant will allow you to carry your length of rope and I don't like it I will not be a consumer of that place's products. Same with the boom box. When they are cranked up I leave the area.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 12:15:09 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5715
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Jimbo, my point isn't about smoking anything, natural or processed. It is about the right of allergy sufferers to enjoy the public park when the flowers are blooming.
But the topic is about unnatural pollution inside a restaurant or other crowded place. Not about natural allergy problems - which I have sometimes and COULD somewhat escape WHEN I can locate a place indoors without SMOKERS.
I can't say I admire your willingness to allow a handful of smokers to mandate where YOU can go to be free of their pollution.
And when the BOSS smokes and the company policy ALLOWS smoking, I suppose your advice is to just stay home until the boss changes policy to get me back...
BTW, can you recommend a safe OTC pill to relieve the symptoms and longterm effects of cigarette smoke for those of us without your ability to escape it?
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 12:24:59 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10859
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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Pollution is pollution.
And I am in no way advocating tobacco smoke pollution for anyone who would suffer for it. But there are choices to be made - By each and every individual.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 12:57:11 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1107
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Jimbo, my point isn't about smoking anything, natural or processed. It is about the right of allergy sufferers to enjoy the public park when the flowers are blooming.
that's kinda like sayin blind people should have the right to look at photographs.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 1:00:41 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6019
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: amyk
My issue with smoking bans is that it is once again the government stepping in and telling a business owner what he/she can or cannot allow on his/her own property. I am all for smoking bans in government-owned buildings, hospitals, etc. In fact, I am for smoking bans in privately-owned businesses AS LONG AS THE BAN IS ENACTED BY THE OWNER, not by the government.
What if government decides that reading a Bible or praying in a restaurant is somehow bad for the general public and they enact a law that forbids Bible-reading or praying in restaurants?
I agree!
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 1:03:43 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1107
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so every restaurant owner should also decide if clothes are optional, and food safety regulations, fire alarms... are also optional?
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 1:22:53 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10859
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Jimbo, my point isn't about smoking anything, natural or processed. It is about the right of allergy sufferers to enjoy the public park when the flowers are blooming.
that's kinda like sayin blind people should have the right to look at photographs.
Apples and oranges.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 1:44:55 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1374
Joined: 5/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
not about catering to public, it's about safety. and about signing on for accountability and regulation when you CHOOSE to operate a business.
Noone has the right to enter a private business except at the behest of the owner. If you do not like his policies you don't have to go there, plain and simple. Should a seafood restaurant not be allowed to serve seafood since there are people allergic to seafood, or should an allergic person not go to a seafood restaurant?
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Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 1:48:41 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1374
Joined: 5/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
A paint booth is not accessible to the public.
And any private business is only as open to the "public" as the owner so chooses.
quote:
Here is what you are missing:
If an establishment is smoking... some people cannot access it (people who are made ill by smoke); if an establishment is non-smoking- everyone can access it (but smokers must refrain from smoking while there).
And here is what you are missing, NOONE has the RIGHT to access any private business.
_____________________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 1:50:55 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1374
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
If nicotine addicts use tobacco in its natural, unprocessed form then you might have a valid point. But the many chemicals added to the potion plus it being burned in special paper makes it closer to sitting in a paint booth.
Does anyone support my right to light a length of hemp rope and, then, carrying it around in restaurants and other crowded places while it smolders? (Even though it's not delivering any nicotine to any addicts, just the simple joy of burning something around others.)
Or what about my right to blast a boom box with my favorite Polka Hip Hop in those same settings?
If the owner of the establishment allowed you to do those things then go for it, I would not patronize that business but that is MY CHOICE.
I once wouldn't eat at a restaurant in frankenmuth (sp?) michigan because polka makes me sick.
_____________________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 2:04:33 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1107
Status: offline
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beside the fact that there are NOT always choices for the non smoker, you're making money out to be the morality. if you can make your money talk, loudest, you win. never mind whether or not it's right to pollute someone else's body while you exercise your private freedom in public.
see that's the thing, smoking is a private, personal freedom. that doesn't mean you should be able to do it wherever you want, or to cause others harm while doing it.
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RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! - 2/28/2008 2:05:46 PM
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zmanfan38
Posts: 9603
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: ...for it's root, root, root for the CUBBIES!!!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
If an establishment is smoking... some people cannot access it (people who are made ill by smoke); if an establishment is non-smoking- everyone can access it (but smokers must refrain from smoking while there).
Tara P
^ This is it in a nutshell. If smokers would show non-smokers the common courtesy and basic human decency of not smoking in an enclosed building with non-smokers inside, this thread would not exist and government intervention concerning smoking bans would not exist. The restaurants would be crowded with all kinds of people wanting to enjoy a meal and they wouldn't have to put a smoking declaration sign on the door. The government would be tackling something else besides pleas from sick people to intervene on their behalf because of smoke. We wouldn't have to have this conversation at all. We could actually plan to meet and enjoy a meal together and talk about what God has been doing in our lives and praying for each other's burdens.
It really is as simple as that.
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«Christi»
Heal my heart and make it clean
Open up my eyes to the things unseen
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