Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (Full Version)

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MyCatSmokey2006 -> Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 12:34:11 AM)

I've been hearing and reading various news articles about states that are imposing smoking bans in most public places like restaurants and even in parking lots of businesses and medical facilities. I don't smoke, but I'm around people who do and I feel that it's a person's individual right to choose where and when to smoke. I believe that smokers are getting a bad rap because of the negative ads claiming that "secondhand smoke causes cancer", and other propaganda by nonsmokers and medical community to try to make people feel guilty about an addictive habit. I've not seen any proof of secondhand smoke causing any problems in my life, so I'm not going to worry about it. In fact, I'm more concerned about what chemicals are in the diesel exhaust of the bus or semi I get stuck behind in traffic every now and then.

I feel that the government has NO right to discriminate against smokers by limiting where and how they can smoke. I mean, if statewide smoking bans are allowed, then what is Big Brother going to go after next? Outlawing caffeine? How about sugar? Those have been found to be addictive substances, so are they going to ban those someday too? Who knows?

What do you think about this?



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 12:58:21 AM)

I kind of have mixed feelings. I understand smokers want to smoke, but I also don't want to breathe in their smoke. [&:] Since I know it has harmful effects on me (I can't be around cigarette smoke for too long without coughing, and I have chemical sensitivity), I want to distance myself. I don't think of this like I think of sugar and caffeine though...just because someone's eating sugar/caffeine doesn't really affect me even if they're addicted, unless they go crazy off a sugar high or something...which I haven't seen. Their blowing smoke does affect me if I'm right there. Sugar and caffeine don't contaminate my air...although I think there's enough in the air anyway. I don't think addiction is the issue so much as it is about the smoke that's going to other people who are around. If there were a way for a person to be addicted to smoking without the smoke around, I'd not like the fact, but at least your smoke isn't causing someone else problems. I'm pretty sure smokeless cigarettes will never exist though. [8D]

See...clear as mud.



rlj -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 5:56:13 AM)

quote:

I feel that the government has NO right to discriminate against smokers by limiting where and how they can smoke.


I half agree and half disagree with you. As for the government deciding what to do on Government property I have no problem with. As for the government telling me who can do what on private property like a restaurant is wrong. If you don't like the smoke at a restaurant or bowling alley then leave. If you don't like the smoke at the courthouse well chances are you may have no choice.



mrtigger -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 9:07:54 AM)

quote:

I feel that the government has NO right to discriminate against smokers by limiting where and how they can smoke.


I don't smoke... There are legitimate reasons to restrict smoking in certain areas. Anywhere indoors is fair game for smoking restrictions. So your position of absolute NO discrimination is way off base.

But I agree that society has gone overboard in some ways. Smoking has become politically incorrect and smokers are an easy target for the one in charge. Just add some new draconian smoking restriction and pontificate about how good you are for doing it and get some easy brownie points with the public. Politics is nauseating.

The GM at where I work finally banned smoking inside (some years ago). Great and long overdue. But then he added a ban of smoking anywhere on the property including the parking lot. The parking lot ban was him just being a self-righteous jerk. Smokers ought to have spots where they can smoke as long as they are not forcing others to breath it too.



Evangel70 -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 11:19:33 AM)

Are you kidding me?!?[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]

Smoking is toxic and deadly. We have an elderly neighbor who has lung cancer as a result of her husband's second hand smoke. IMO smoking is no different than engaging in homosexual behavior. In fact, I'd probably say that smoking is worse than homosexuality since that behavior is usually done in private and is only affecting those engaging in that behavior whereas smoking affects everyone around the smoker.

The toxic effect of second hand smoke has been well documented and only hard-line smokers dispute the evidence. We don't allow smokers in our home and NEVER around our children. I believe parents who smoke around their children are committing child abuse and should quit or have their children placed in foster care.

I totally support a smokers right to puff away to their heart's content in their own home or vehicle but I would expect them to respect the health and safety of co-workers or restaurant patrons or other public domains.

If you don't like the government intruding into the private lives of citizens, you'd have a hard time supporting pro-life legislation or any ban on homosexual behavior since THAT, too, would be intruding on the individual behavior. [8D]



phosadaud -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 11:44:55 AM)

I'd love for those of you who think that second hand smoke is no big deal, to tell that to the family of the young woman who recently died from an asthma attack directly triggered by 2nd hand smoke where she works. I'm sure they'd disagree with you. Or a friend of mine who's daughter kept ending up in the ER from severe asthma attacks as a result of her daddy's smoking. One ER doc finally told the dad that his smoking was going to kill his little girl so he stopped cold-turkey. His daughter didn't have a single asthma attack after that. Employees who work where there is heavy smoking but do not smoke get the same cancers and such that smokers get. They have found in autopsies, that even though they never smoked, they had the lungs of a smoker (which is really nasty if you've ever seen pictures of smoker's lungs).

After watching my grandfather (a long-time smoker) slowly suffocate from emphyzema and caring for many folks dying of various ailments as a direct result to smoking, I have zero sympathy for smoking. Zero. And yes, it affects every person around them. It's a nasty, nasty habit and I have a right to be free of the negative affects of that habit. If you want to destroy yourself, I guess you have that right. You DON'T have the right to hurt my health and make me stink so you can destroy your heart and lungs.

And for the life of me, I cannot understand the attitude that your addiction is more important than the welfare (and even comfort) of those around you. The idea that 2nd hand smoke is deadly and destructive is not just an idea - it's heavily, heavily, heavily documented. If you disagree, then I have some land in the swamp, I'd love to sell you...



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phosadaud -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 12:06:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: whodeeni
You can choose not to smoke, the rest of us can't choose not to breath.


Very well-said![sm=thumbsup.gif]



rainbowtvp -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 12:26:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: whodeeni
You can choose not to smoke, the rest of us can't choose not to breath.


Right.

A smoker's rights end where mine begin.

Allowing smoking in public places does restrict the ability of MANY people to enter that place; however, a smoker can still go there, they just can't smoke while they are there.

NOW... I do feel that private establishments should be allowed to make their own rules. A restaurant, etc. should be able to allow smoking if they want (though I won't go there!).

I am allergic to tobacco and smoke makes me ill. I sometimes suffer through it. When I visit my dad at his house, I come home with a migraine, nauseated, sinus trouble, etc. I am one of the lucky ones who can handle small doses of it... some people can't be around it at all.

I have an uncle who died from lung cancer who never smoked a day in his life (nor was he a miner, etc), but lived with a chain smoker.

I have known several children of smokers who had asthma, etc during the time the lived with smokers. The ones who either the smokers quit ot they moved... miraculously were healed of their symptoms! The incidence of asthma, SIDS, etc being greater in children exposed to second-hand smoke is well-documented.

It is not propaganda that second-hand smoke is dangerous.

I remember what exhaust from cars was like in the 70's... since emissions standards have be put in place, it is rare that I am stuck behind a vehicle with fumes.

Tara P



pandora -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 12:59:24 PM)

Why should smokers desire to smoke whenever and wherever they please trump the health and safety of those around them? It shouldn't matter that it is a private business or a public building. There are health and safety codes for a reason and I see a ban on indoor smoking in businessess as just another requirement to ensure the wellbeing of those who patronize and work in a business.



tacitus -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:05:04 PM)

There have been plenty of studies that show a connection between health problems and second-hand smoke. Doesn't take more than a couple of minutes with Google to find them.



bzirk -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:11:35 PM)

Whether second hand smoke is dangerous or not, I don't want to be forced to smell cigarette smoke. I'm old enough to remember when you almost couldn't get away from it in public places.

The best argument I've heard against the right to smoke anywhere is this: just because I have the right to drink beer doesn't mean I have the right to urinate on you.



CoeurdeLeon -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:20:18 PM)

I have a big ol problem with the goobermint telling me what I can and cannot allow on my (MY!) property.

If a place allows smoking and you don't want to smell it, don't patronize that business. Money talks. A business owner will soon see that it's more profitable to make their business smoke-free without giving the gov't MORE control over our lives.



phosadaud -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:25:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bzirk
The best argument I've heard against the right to smoke anywhere is this: just because I have the right to drink beer doesn't mean I have the right to urinate on you.


[sm=purplelaugh.gif][sm=purplelaugh.gif][sm=purplelaugh.gif]

And... [sm=thumbsup.gif]



rcjames -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:30:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon

I have a big ol problem with the goobermint telling me what I can and cannot allow on my (MY!) property.

If a place allows smoking and you don't want to smell it, don't patronize that business. Money talks. A business owner will soon see that it's more profitable to make their business smoke-free without giving the gov't MORE control over our lives.


If you run a public business, you must keep the benefit of the public in mind.

If you want to let folks kill each other with smoke in your business; open a club or smokers only donut shop with proper venelation.

Thanks
RC



bzirk -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:30:31 PM)

There's definitely a balance. If it's someone's private property, then certainly they should have the right to smoke as long as the smoke is not affecting someone else on their property. Most businesses are private property.

What's great is that people for the most part no longer want to frequent businesses where there is not a smoke free area. Business owners have learned that and make considerations for those who want smoke free.

But as for truly public buildings or other places not conisidered private, the presumption should be that smoking is not allowed if it infringes on someone else's right to be smoke free.



stamper_ben -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:39:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bzirk

There's definitely a balance. If it's someone's private property, then certainly they should have the right to smoke as long as the smoke is not affecting someone else on their property. Most businesses are private property.

What's great is that people for the most part no longer want to frequent businesses where there is not a smoke free area. Business owners have learned that and make considerations for those who want smoke free.

But as for truly public buildings or other places not conisidered private, the presumption should be that smoking is not allowed if it infringes on someone else's right to be smoke free.

Hear hear! Well said! (and add all those smilies that give kudos to a post.)



phosadaud -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:42:37 PM)

While I understand the argument about private businesses (and I tend to be one that would rather have the government keep out), here is my concern. At some point, the government must step in to protect the lives of people. One cannot beat their child senseless inside their home just because it's private property. There is a balance that must be met between privacy and rights, and protection from harm. The fact is: smoking is harmful and not just to the smoker. If it only harmed the smoker, I think that argument would carry more weight. It doesn't. I don't have a right to give someone else cancer or keep someone else from being able to do basic things like go shopping or eat out for the sake of a nasty habit that I don't have to do and that I don't have to do anywhere and everywhere.



stamper_ben -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:45:34 PM)

So I HAVE to have the government come into my home to tell me that I shouldn't be smoking in it because there is a minor present?



DenimDiva -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:46:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evangel70

Are you kidding me?!?[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]

Smoking is toxic and deadly. We have an elderly neighbor who has lung cancer as a result of her husband's second hand smoke. IMO smoking is no different than engaging in homosexual behavior. In fact, I'd probably say that smoking is worse than homosexuality since that behavior is usually done in private and is only affecting those engaging in that behavior whereas smoking affects everyone around the smoker.

The toxic effect of second hand smoke has been well documented and only hard-line smokers dispute the evidence. We don't allow smokers in our home and NEVER around our children. I believe parents who smoke around their children are committing child abuse and should quit or have their children placed in foster care.

I totally support a smokers right to puff away to their heart's content in their own home or vehicle but I would expect them to respect the health and safety of co-workers or restaurant patrons or other public domains.

If you don't like the government intruding into the private lives of citizens, you'd have a hard time supporting pro-life legislation or any ban on homosexual behavior since THAT, too, would be intruding on the individual behavior. [8D]


That is one of the silliest posts that I have read in a long time!

Yes, I do smoke. It's not something that I'm proud of. Many folks don't even know I smoke. I don't smoke around children, indoors, inside a car, around non-smokers- even when someone else is smoking in those areas.

Smoking is as bad as homosexuality?
Smokers can't be pro-life?
[8|]!



phosadaud -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:48:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

So I HAVE to have the government come into my home to tell me that I shouldn't be smoking in it because there is a minor present?


You shouldn't have to if you care about the minor... [;)]



bzirk -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:49:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: phosadaud

While I understand the argument about private businesses (and I tend to be one that would rather have the government keep out), here is my concern. At some point, the government must step in to protect the lives of people. One cannot beat their child senseless inside their home just because it's private property. There is a balance that must be met between privacy and rights, and protection from harm. The fact is: smoking is harmful and not just to the smoker. If it only harmed the smoker, I think that argument would carry more weight. It doesn't. I don't have a right to give someone else cancer or keep someone else from being able to do basic things like go shopping or eat out for the sake of a nasty habit that I don't have to do and that I don't have to do anywhere and everywhere.


Therein lies the great debate about how much the government needs to protect us. I tend to come down on the side of libertariansm, but there are some things I believe the government needs to protect us from. For instance, if there were poeple who wanted to go nude anywhere they desired (and there are some of those people LOL), then I'd probably appeal to the government to keep it from happening especially if I'm not able to get away from it easily -- just like it used to be with cigarette smoke.



stamper_ben -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:50:13 PM)

quote:

You shouldn't have to if you care about the minor...
Which is why I go outside. I don't need anyone to tell me that though.



phosadaud -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:50:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Abbie_girl
Smoking is as bad as homosexuality?
Smokers can't be pro-life?
[8|]!


That's not what he said. He said that if you believe that the government shouldn't ever intrude on the private lives of citizens, you shouldn't think the government can "intrude" on those areas either.



phosadaud -> RE: Smokers Have Rights Too!!! (2/23/2008 2:52:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

quote:

You shouldn't have to if you care about the minor...
Which is why I go outside. I don't need anyone to tell me that though.


But some do...

As a friend of mine who had to give her infant son nebulizer treatments because of her husband's smoking. Or the fact that this thread even exists (non-smokers shouldn't be able to go shopping or eat at a restaurant if there is a smoker out there who wants to smoke).



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