"Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Theology] >> Science & Origins



Message

cognitivemagic -> "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 2:42:15 PM)

This may seem odd to some but I think it is essentially correct: science has no advantages in the survival of any species. In fact, I think it can be plausibly argued for the reverse: all science hinders the survival of the species.

Think about it. Pro-science advocates want to boldly boast about all of the so-called "technological advances" that have supposedly benefited mankind: medicines, mass communications devices/media, cars, telephones, radio's, ect.

But think about all of the problems that have been concurrent with these "advances": guns, bombs, torture devices, poisons, concentration camps, illicit recreational drugs, prophylactics allowing for consequence free sex that lower incentives to marry and develop loving familial relationships, abortion, pornography, psycho-social manipulation manuals (i.e. "self-help" books), toxic waste dumps, mass elimination of forestry, exploitation of human vanity with HGH and steroids, diet pills and surgery; the "self-image" problems resulting from media bombardments of unrealistic fantasy pictures of celebrities, an "internet" and video game environment that isolates people, global warming, and the toxic psycho-pharmaceuticals that have been developed to cope with this monster that science has created.....just to name a few.

Thanks science....where would we be without you?



cow451 -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 3:42:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cognitivemagic

Thanks science....where would we be without you?

In the fifth century.



drmark -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 3:51:40 PM)

True observational science is morally neutral. The application of science rarely is! All your examples of "pros and cons" are the results of applied science - engineering, medical practice, biotech, etc. None of these are solely in the realm of science but rather what has become politically correct scientism. So, the better question is - where would we be without scientism?



Jhud -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 5:02:25 PM)

I would say atheism confers no survival advantages, indeed it seems to have a negative effects on human populations where it is widespread, but science is very advantageous.

Indeed, science is simply a methodological and systematic way of thinking about things, and has existed in some form throughout human history - but it works best when it conforms to certain realities about the nature of the universe that science itself can't discover, only accept.



cognitivemagic -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 5:12:27 PM)

quote:

In the fifth century.


You so easily go amnesia on us when it comes to the Gulags and Concentration camps of the 20th Century....or the realities of D&C extraction and elimination of unborn children; or living in fascist regimes, whose spy technology and paranoid police states help monitor and control citizens. Or the research benefits of the gruesome torture and murder by Dr. Mengele and the Nazi doctors....not to mention the general victimization of innocent animals by any number of scientific communities. Or nuclear bombs dropped on Japan and killing hundreds of thousands of people; along with the corrosive fallout poisonings of much of the surviving citizenry. Or napalm that was dropped on the heads of Vietnamese troops in the 1960's and early 70's. Or the Armenian genocides that took place in Turkey in the early 20th Century. Or chemical agents and nerve gases that asphyxiate and/or stop organ functioning by poison toxicity in many countries around the world. Or the vicious and inhuman suppression and repression by violence in several third world countries, like Burma. Or the technology that allows pedophiles and perverts greater range of victimization of women and children, via the Internet...some who are brazen enough to go on the local news and boast about it. Or societies that have teenagers showing up at schools and mass murdering their classes. Or gossip-mongers, fueled by the media, that revel in the exploitation and self-destruction of celebrities. Or landfills that have garbage that will be here until kingdom come. Or the pollution and toxicity of the atmosphere in developed and industrialized countries. Or mass production of products that poison and destroy people through prolonged or short term use (i.e. street drugs, prescription drugs). Or teenagers, fueled by a "street" and "thug" mentality, are now finding pimps and tramps "cool", and Jesus Christ lame and irrelevant....along with science and learning in general, though foreigners would give their lives to see their own children get an education in the U.S. How is it that you remember so vividly some alleged atrocities of the 5th Century and completely gloss over the 20th Century?

How bad could the 5th Century be compared to this? What universe do you hail from, where you can so easily whitewash modernity and anathematize antiquity? What do you really know about the 5th Century anyway?

You had better wake up....because your floating along in the river Styx and don't yet have the sense to realize it.[&o]



Jhud -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 5:16:08 PM)

quote:

How bad could the 5th Century be compared to this? What universe do you hail from, where you can so easily whitewash modernity and anathematize antiquity? What do you really know about the 5th Century anyway?

You had better wake up....because your floating along in the river Styx and don't yet have the sense to realize it.


I think modern technology certain made us more effective and efficient sinners, it didn't however make us more sinful. Indeed, I have seen some studies indicating that many more people died from violence of some sort in the pre-Christian era, not to mention from health conditions that science helped alleviate.

That being said, I think technology as a primary solution can have corrosive effects on human lives.



drmark -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 5:22:05 PM)

quote:

You had better wake up....because your floating along in the river Styx and don't yet have the sense to realize it.
Although this comment was directed to cow451 (and I relished every syllable of it [;)]), the point remains that you have failed to make the all important distinction between observational science and applied science. Would you care to discuss my post #3, cm, or do you intend to float along in the river Naivete?



cognitivemagic -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 5:26:34 PM)

quote:

I think modern technology certain made us more effective and efficient sinners, it didn't however make us more sinful. I


My point is that science hasn't conferred survival advantages on humanity. It can't even make humans behave decently to one another....it has helped us be even more efficient killers....so my point remains true.

So what's all this "hoopla" about the benefits of science as compared to the tragedies and losses it has given us? The reply thus far is the mock to my rhetorical question "where would we be without you" (i.e. science). Response: "the Fifth Century".

Mark my words: that's as good a response as this thread is going to yield...and it ain't much of a response.

Where is the "enlightened" men that the 17th century promised to give us, ruled by "reason" rather than "dogma"? Have they not, by the murder and "death of God" ("Thus Spake Zarathustra"), so evidently ushered in the death of man?



Jhud -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 5:33:29 PM)

quote:

My point is that science hasn't conferred survival advantages on humanity. It can't even make humans behave decently to one another....it has helped us be even more efficient killers....so my point remains true.

So what's all this "hoopla" about the benefits of science as compared to the tragedies and losses it has given us? The reply thus far is the mock to my rhetorical question "where would we be without you (i.e. science): "the Fifth Century".

Mark my words: that's as good a response as this thread is going to yield...and it ain't much of a response.

Where is the "enlightened" men that the 17th century promised to give us, ruled by "reason" rather than "dogma"? Have they not, by the murder and "death of God" ("Thus Spake Zarathustra"), so evidently ushered in the death of man?


I think the issue here is really science versus scientism. The former has helped give us clean drinking water and antibiotics - the latter has helped produce many of the ills of the last century.

We can appreciate one without falling into the other.



cognitivemagic -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 5:39:57 PM)

I don't see the relevance of the distinction between "applied" vs. "observational" science.

I'm addressing modern science in general. My points are directed to those who see science as some benign, triumphant replacement to religion/spirituality.

I know that you believe in God and I'm not about to criticize anyone for being a scientist or lover of the sciences. I like 'em too[;)]

But my points are addressed to optimists, and/or naive thinkers and secularists, who have bought into the notion that science is the be all and end all. I chose a provocative thesis, not to merely provoke hostility, but rather stimulate thoughts about the merits of science compared to it's absence; and also, a mourning for the lack of moral/spiritual responsibility that was shaved off in making room for the "Enlightenment". I heartily recommend Charles Taylor's "A Secular Age" which can be seen at Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/Secular-Age-Charles-Taylor/dp/0674026764

The principle that "Guns don't kill people; people kill people" doesn't mitigate the issue: why have guns at all?



cognitivemagic -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 5:54:02 PM)

quote:

I think the issue here is really science versus scientism. The former has helped give us clean drinking water and antibiotics


People need "clean" drinking water and anti-biotics because mankind has polluted the environment; science has only helped to increase pollution and disease exponentially.

But what about the whole range of human ills that have directly resulted from scientific findings?

Science is predicated on 'humanism'; namely, that human reason and autonomy can and will "save" mankind. Religion didn't and couldn't do it, period. So now, armed with "enlightened" self-interest and reason, mankind can finally do the job that religion was impotent to do.

Really? Really?!?!

That's what I take umbrage with.

"Man does not live by bread alone...."



WormHeart -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 6:27:01 PM)

You are not serious.

You must be a troll.

You seriously prefer girls getting pregnant at age 13, people dying of old age in their thirties and a simple infection equal a death-sentence?

You prefer raw sewage running in the streets and no-one knowing about bacteria and hygine?

You claim:
quote:

science has no advantages in the survival of any species. In fact, I think it can be plausibly argued for the reverse: all science hinders the survival of the species.


Simple math proves you wrong. We are six billion today. How many were we aroung the fifth century?

[:D]

WormHeart



Jhud -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/4/2008 6:54:27 PM)

quote:

People need "clean" drinking water and anti-biotics because mankind has polluted the environment; science has only helped to increase pollution and disease exponentially.

But what about the whole range of human ills that have directly resulted from scientific findings?

Science is predicated on 'humanism'; namely, that human reason and autonomy can and will "save" mankind. Religion didn't and couldn't do it, period. So now, armed with "enlightened" self-interest and reason, mankind can finally do the job that religion was impotent to do.

Really? Really?!?!

That's what I take umbrage with.

"Man does not live by bread alone...."


Well, no.

There was plenty of disease around before 'science' was widespread. Ever hear of the black plague? Malaria? The reality is you are trying to blame science for the sinfulness of man, and that is just plain silly.

This is simply a classic case of, as they say, throwing the baby out with the bath water.



BVZ -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/5/2008 7:19:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cognitivemagic

quote:

I think the issue here is really science versus scientism. The former has helped give us clean drinking water and antibiotics


People need "clean" drinking water and anti-biotics because mankind has polluted the environment; science has only helped to increase pollution and disease exponentially.

But what about the whole range of human ills that have directly resulted from scientific findings?

Science is predicated on 'humanism'; namely, that human reason and autonomy can and will "save" mankind. Religion didn't and couldn't do it, period. So now, armed with "enlightened" self-interest and reason, mankind can finally do the job that religion was impotent to do.

Really? Really?!?!

That's what I take umbrage with.

"Man does not live by bread alone...."


Tell me, when one of your loved ones appendix is about to burst, what do you do?



cognitivemagic -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/8/2008 5:56:16 PM)

Such optimists.....

Let's sustain life so we can generate serial killers, serial rapists, serial pedophiles, mass war machines.....

Frankly, I was right. No one can contend with facts. Science has given Babylon a face-lift:

quote:

After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’ Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.

“The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’
“And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore: merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men. The fruit that your soul longed for has gone from you, and all the things which are rich and splendid have gone from you, and you shall find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, who became rich by her, will stand at a distance for fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls! For in one hour such great riches came to nothing.’ Every shipmaster, all who travel by ship, sailors, and as many as trade on the sea, stood at a distance and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What is like this great city?’
“They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.’
“Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!”

Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.” (Revelation 18)


quote:

You must be a troll.


Who's the "troll", now? Turn on the news and observe Frankenstein's Monster. There lies your "troll"; therein lies the "Beast":

quote:

And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” (Revelation 14:8-11)


The symbolism may or may not be obvious to most, but I encourage the noble Berean to consider my understanding and read William Hendrickson's "More Than Conquerors" and G.K. Beale's Commentary on "Revelation" on this matter.

Therefore, let them that have ears hear.....


quote:

Tell me, when one of your loved ones appendix is about to burst, what do you do?


If my appendix burst, there's no guarantee any doctor can save me....he may or may not; I might just as soon die from bacterial infections incurred from the surgery.

quote:

You seriously prefer girls getting pregnant at age 13, people dying of old age in their thirties and a simple infection equal a death-sentence?


I prefer girls to be responsible and get married and raise a family. My mother died in her early forties, when I was barely a teenager....what good did your "science" do for her, except allow you to dishonor her memory by insulting her son? Ok, so I see how science has benefited your knee jerk reactions here.....

What a world we live in where men's hearts are cold and pitiless:

quote:

"But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth...... But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:1-7;13)


This is the world we live in today!!! Who can deny this?

But God gives all men life and even raises the dead....science only sustains dead people whose bodies are waiting to catch up!!

If scientists could sustain men so that they never grow sick or die, then a most curious thing will have occurred: science, as the idol and beast that moderns worship and prostrate themselves before, will have helped secure "hell" for mankind:

“ And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

--Isaiah 66:24



fiat_lux -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/9/2008 12:00:48 AM)

quote:

This is the world we live in today!!! Who can deny this?

That world has been present for pretty much the last 2000 years. If you think the "cold and pitiless" hearts of men are a new development, I suggest you read the book of Judges.

quote:

I might just as soon die from bacterial infections incurred from the surgery.

If we have no antibiotics, you certainly will die, and from a much simpler bacterial infection than one resulting from surgery. For that matter, there are plenty of ways to get yourself killed - including a number of bacteria, come to think of it - by partaking of "nature," with or without man's pollution of it.

I think pretty much everyone writing against you in this thread would agree with you that we have done a lot of harmful things with the technology we've created as a species, and in the name of a lot of dangerous ideologies human groups have promoted. But I'd be interested to know where you'd draw the line. Is absolutely everything created by humans evil?

Is the scientific knowledge and technology that allows us to communicate through this online forum also evil?



EverLearning -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/9/2008 8:12:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

There was plenty of disease around before 'science' was widespread. Ever hear of the black plague? Malaria?

and polio and small pox



EverLearning -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/9/2008 8:23:34 AM)

What is amazing is that you feel vindicated in degrading modern medicine and other scientific discoveries at the same time that you use media that is derived from science or did i miss where the internet existed prior to science. Sometimes i wish all the anti-science people would run from science, run to the hills, without computers or phones or printing presses (another scientific advancement) so i wouldn't have to hear this mess.

Your assertion that evil sprang from scientific advance is rediculous, the vast majority of humans will never be the victim of violence from scientific discoveries and an order of magnitude more humans will benefit from scientific advances. Evil, murder, existed since the fall remember Cain. What percentage of people now are murderers? Yes there is alot of murder and violence but there is also thousands of times more people than existed pre-science (which by the way never existed, any advancement that took experimentation is essentially science).



AllForIsrael -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/9/2008 9:10:22 AM)

Modern medicine has made great strides since the days of the Hippocratic Oath. Disease,death and illness are a part of the natural life cycle of any living creature. Though it has to make you wonder just how many of these things they have actual cures for but never disclose. Makes sense, come up with a cure the folks making the drugs lose $$$$$$



Jhud -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/9/2008 1:11:45 PM)

quote:

Modern medicine has made great strides since the days of the Hippocratic Oath. Disease,death and illness are a part of the natural life cycle of any living creature. Though it has to make you wonder just how many of these things they have actual cures for but never disclose. Makes sense, come up with a cure the folks making the drugs lose $$$$$$


Sounds like the plot of a really cheesy movie.



AllForIsrael -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/9/2008 1:19:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Modern medicine has made great strides since the days of the Hippocratic Oath. Disease,death and illness are a part of the natural life cycle of any living creature. Though it has to make you wonder just how many of these things they have actual cures for but never disclose. Makes sense, come up with a cure the folks making the drugs lose $$$$$$


Sounds like the plot of a really cheesy movie.


I would totally agree......



BVZ -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/10/2008 8:55:03 AM)

quote:


quote:

Tell me, when one of your loved ones appendix is about to burst, what do you do?


If my appendix burst, there's no guarantee any doctor can save me....he may or may not; I might just as soon die from bacterial infections incurred from the surgery.


Are you SERIOUS!?!?

When one of your loved ones has an appendix that is about to burst... you will leave them on their bed to die, in stead of TAKING THEM TO A HOSPITAL!?



cognitivemagic -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/10/2008 5:25:45 PM)

quote:

Are you SERIOUS!?!? When one of your loved ones has an appendix that is about to burst... you will leave them on their bed to die, in stead of TAKING THEM TO A HOSPITAL!?


Oh yes....read the statistics in Harper's Index, under "Medicine", about the percentage of doctor's that actually wash and sanitize properly; or the percentage of Nursing staff that would recommend family and friends to their own hospitals of employment for treatment.....as well as statistics of death in hospital patients not related to their original treatment; but don't take my word for it; here's an article to show you the real world, Neo:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3131089/

And since I had contracted a life-threatening virus during my own stay at a hospital, and had to be quarantined, I know from actual experience that it can happen!!!

Whether I take them to a hospital or not is irrelevant to my argument: in logic, you have committed the ad hominem circumstantial fallacy. But I'm sure violating the rules of logic and argumentation are less advantageous than rhetorical sound-bites; I'm sure you'd rather win the person than the argument here.

And why hasn't anyone done some sort of cost/benefit analysis of "science" and given an actual answer to my thread, instead of replying with red herrings and ad hominem arguments. Doesn't anyone study formal logic anymore? Didn't you take "critical thinking" in Community College? I guess it's easier to attack a person than it is their argument. At least I give responses to your post that directly address your objections; can't you at least try to rebut my position without resorting to attacks?

Obviously, you like to live in a bubble of ignorance about the "real" world.

Answer me this: Should men and women with schizophrenia and bi-polar manic depression be allowed to own guns? Should their constitutional "right to bear arms" be nullified by their illness?

The answer to this question is the same answer I will reply with about "science". Again let me speak even more plainly:

Science increases wickedness.....and science can't stop wickedness. Ok, so instead of dying by the hands of nature, we die by each other's own hands. We invent nuclear, nano, biological and chemical weapons for warfare so....now we do nature's job for her!!!

Read Stephen King's "The Stand" and Michael Crichton's "Prey"; I realize that they're novels, but the back story for these ideas is rooted in modern warfare technology.

Read an interview with Crichton about the premise of his book here:

http://www.michaelcrichton.net/qa-prey.html

Or Stephen King here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stand



Jhud -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/10/2008 5:52:58 PM)

quote:

Oh yes....read the statistics in Harper's Index, under "Medicine", about the percentage of doctor's that actually wash and sanitize properly; or the percentage of Nursing staff that would recommend family and friends to their own hospitals of employment for treatment.....as well as statistics of death in hospital patients not related to their original treatment; but don't take my word for it; here's an article to show you the real world, Neo:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3131089/

And since I had contracted a life-threatening virus during my own stay at a hospital, and had to be quarantined, I know from actual experience that it can happen!!!

Whether I take them to a hospital or not is irrelevant to my argument: in logic, you have committed the ad hominem circumstantial fallacy. But I'm sure violating the rules of logic and argumentation are less advantageous than rhetorical sound-bites; I'm sure you'd rather win the person than the argument here.

And why hasn't anyone done some sort of cost/benefit analysis of "science" and given an actual answer to my thread, instead of replying with red herrings and ad hominem arguments. Doesn't anyone study formal logic anymore? Didn't you take "critical thinking" in Community College? I guess it's easier to attack a person than it is their argument. At least I give responses to your post that directly address your objections; can't you at least try to rebut my position without resorting to attacks?

Obviously, you like to live in a bubble of ignorance about the "real" world.


Speaking of logical fallacies, have you ever considered the Hasty Generalization?



cognitivemagic -> RE: "Science" Confers No Survival Advantages. (3/10/2008 9:46:46 PM)

quote:

Speaking of logical fallacies, have you ever considered the Hasty Generalization?


Hasty generalization?

Ask your parents or grandparents if today's society is better than theirs.

Did they worry about students showing up on campus with assault rifles? Were they paranoid of sexual predators preying on their children through the World Wide Web? Did they have media that glorified lewdness to the extent that we do today; even in the daytime, where kids have unimpeded access? What about unwanted "pop-ups" from porn sites on unsuspecting kids on the internet? Or what about the Comcast cable debacle that broadcast "hard-core" pornography accidentally over the Disney Channel; which may result in a class action lawsuit by the horrified parents that viewed it with their kids?

Ask an old man or women that you run across about this "paradise" we live in today in comparison to the past.....see what they have to say; listen to their wisdom.

The only fallacy I can see is the Hasty Justification.



Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI