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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 4/23/2008 8:06:35 PM
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.....
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Hello! The first half of the last 7 years of history is a trial under the 'wrath' of the false prophet worldly beast from the earth. All he can do is torture you until you're dead. God, however, has the power to put a soul in hell forever. It is written: we have not been tested more than what is common to mankind. Therefore, the Body of Believers will have to stand in the patient endurance of their faith during this time period along with everyone else on the earth under the 10 world leaders, among whom the antichrist joins after subduing 3 of them to make 8 as written. Paul said: in the patient endurance and faithfullness that are ours in Christ Jesus. For these present sufferings cannot compare with The Grace that God has given us in Christ, and perserverence would bring hope. They were like people condemned to die in the arena. Aren't we all: for the wages of sin is death and the angels are watching us from their blessed Places in heaven as protectors, scribes.... with differing glories and power. For it is written: unknown to them that they were entertaining Angels. Bad things happen to people all the time. If you believe that some of them are not saved, and are going to Judgment and hell; why would you not think that everyone will be tested as written: to test those that are on the earth.?
The second half of the 7 year period will be the time for God's wrath poured out upon the earth, as written in revelation, upon the followers of the false prophet beast from the earth who took the mark of the number of the name of the person (fallen 'power that be' who once was, now is not, yet will come) who is the antichrist who had set up the abomination that causes desolations to be decreed against his worldwide empire. 30-75 days after the antichrist sets up the abomination that causes desolation and puts an end to sacrifice and offering at The Temple of God, the raptura event will occur as written.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PromiseLander
Quite simply...
1 Thessalonians 5:9
"For God did not appoint us to wrath..."
What is the tribulation as described in Revelation? It is the wrath of God.
The Church will not be appointed to suffer the wrath of God - that's an inclusive statement - The Church will not suffer wrath neither in this life or after death. The tribulation in Revelation covers the entire planet, ergo, the Church will not be here.
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/23/2008 8:43:32 PM >
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 4/24/2008 10:49:41 PM
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Lapidoth
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His/her profile has already been raptured out of here. lol.
quote:
Who is this??
The unknown comic? or the unkmown Saint?
LG
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 4/24/2008 11:31:57 PM
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bob97
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The mask prophet!
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 4/25/2008 2:47:33 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2635
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From: OKLAHOMA
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RAPTURE:
If believers in Yahushua are taken, then why would the days
of the tribulation have to be "shortened" for the sake of the
Elect (those in a Covenant with Yahuah)? [reference: Mt. 24:22; Mk. 13:20]
The first to be "taken" will be the WEEDS, who will be literally burned
with fire before the eyes of those who are "left"
(Mt. 13:30; Mt. 3:12; Lk. 3:17; 2Peter 3:10-12; Rev. 17:16; Ps. 91:7).
Misunderstanding this "timing" of our being clothed with immortality is
not an issue that is critical to our salvation, but rather one of profound
mishandling of Yahuah's inspired words in its details of the last days,
and the unfolding of the events that the qodeshim will be enduring to the "end."
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 4/26/2008 2:30:50 AM
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Sinner-Saint
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The tares are not taken but collected.
The wheat is gathered into the barn of Heaven.
Then the tares are burned in the field.
Therefore, the Elect go through the Great Tribulation to be gathered up on the Day of the Lord which happens some time after the midpoint.
After that, the first Trumpet blows and the burning begins! At the end of the one 'seven,' the last desolation decreed by God is poured out upon the beast of a man.
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 4/27/2008 10:36:51 PM
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ruthlesstrust
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
That doesn't work, Ezra, because the Tribulation is not the Wrath of God
Just because you or some others choose to redefine things in Scripture does not make them so. So unless you can prove from Scripture that the Tribulation (including the Great Tribulation) is not a manifestation of God's wrath, you do not have a case.
I believe Revelation 12:17 clarifies the question. Thanks ruthlesstrust
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see you in the funny papers!
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 4/27/2008 11:09:34 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
If believers in Yahushua are taken, then why would the days
of the tribulation have to be "shortened" for the sake of the
Elect (those in a Covenant with Yahuah)? [reference: Mt. 24:22; Mk. 13:20]
Why do Christians think we will not suffer? I'm trying to understand that.
_____________________________
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 4/28/2008 12:39:01 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
If believers in Yahushua are taken, then why would the days
of the tribulation have to be "shortened" for the sake of the
Elect (those in a Covenant with Yahuah)? [reference: Mt. 24:22; Mk. 13:20]
Why do Christians think we will not suffer? I'm trying to understand that.
That is the "itching ears" message that we have inherited from those before.
It's way before we were born, so if we grew up with it, we believe it's the truth.
And to top it off, most of us only get our information from the sermonettes on
Sunday morning, tv preachers, and movies and songs with that viewpoint.
It's when you study for yourself without a preconceived notion that you ask,
"Why do they believe that?"
Been there, done that, so I understand why we have believed what we believe,
but as a studier for myself, I had to change my view to reconcile the Scriptures
one to the other.
If the scriptures we use contradict other passages, then we haven't found the
truth of the matter yet, as God does not contradict Himself, man does. So that's
my rule of thumb in wondering if I have the truth or not.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 5/9/2008 12:01:29 PM
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mindmatters
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matthew 24: 1-31 Christ will gather together the church after the tribulation. in revelation 7 you can see before the 7th seal is broken, an angel comes to mark God's people so the affects of tribulation do not affect them. why would this be necessary if they are not here. you also see in chapter 7 the great multitude from the great tribulation. when i done a word study on this passage, i found that great can also mean long in greek. which lead me back to matthew 24 where Christ said that there will be tribulation like never before, which tells me that after Christ's death, Christians began to be persecuted, and this is what Christ was talking about i think. so the great tribulation is my opinion, and that is all it is, is talking about life as we know it. so these are the saved up to that point. where they are, the bible says they are with him around His throne. but we have to remember as well that a new heaven and earth is were eternity will be spent, and God is not bound by the restraints of time as we are. so things may not play out as we read them with our minimal understanding that God has allowed us to have. it's all about God, he wants us to depend on him.
what's really important though is romans 10. if you are born again, you will be in eternity with him, and whether or not the church is present in tribulation, as a born again Christian, there is nothing they can do to take it away! praise God!
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 5/9/2008 12:29:38 PM
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searcher1
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I can't give you an absolute certainty that the Church will be removed before the tribulations. There is two schools of thought on this. Most Christians believe we will be removed prior to the tribulations but.... there are those who believe the Church will go through it. What is your thoughts on it?
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 5/9/2008 4:38:43 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2635
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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I guess it always comes down to a vote doesn't it? LOL.
And that vote depends on our world view, and our own ideas
what things mean.
Ask any two Jews and you will have three opinions.
With "rapture" there are as many opinions as there are people.
I can guarantee it won't be like any of us have it figured out.
I vote we'll be here, so we will all be able to see who's right or wrong if we're still living.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 5/14/2008 12:27:48 PM
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mindmatters
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lol! i don't think that God would allow a vote to change his absolute word though. it would seem that is how most would like to settle it though. but what i really think, is the reason it is not clear is because the bible says that no one knows when the coming of Christ will be. so that tells me that if there was a pre trib rapture of the church you could calculate when His return would be. for that matter, if we even knew when tribulation started we could calculate His return. and i don't think that is going to happen. i would like to think i would recognize the image of the beast in the temple (whoever that will be) but i think that we will be in tribulation and not even realize it. as i have studied this a lot, i am beginning to think that when the image of the beast is set up, that is when Christ will return, (Matthew 24), for the elects sake those days will be shortened. the mark is instituted and Christ returns to set up on earth his kingdom with the church. in revelation 20, after the 1000 year reign, satan is released to deceive the people for a short while, and shows up at the city and God breathes fire out of heaven to destroy them. keep in mind this is after Armageddon and the 1000 year reign.this means that life is still going on outside the city walls of the 1000 years with Christ on earth. but that messes with all the time lines the scholars have come up with that we have been taught all our lives, if you were in church. God is not bound by time, and we are trying to put a time limit on things we don't even understand. there is some definite weight to the number of days in revelation, but it has been said before that a day to God is like a 1000 years to us, now that puts the time line in perspective to me, but that also means that tribulation will last a long time. so who really knows. i do not think the scholars do either. nobody knows when he will return. his return will be like a thief in the night.
martin luther wanted to keep revelation out of the bible.
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 5/14/2008 12:52:37 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2635
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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Revelation will be played out on the lines of Leviticus 23.
yet, no one knows when it will begin. As much prophecy
has multiple fulfillments, so our pet doctrines go up in smoke
each time.
We just have to have complete faith in God and faith that is
producing good kingdom works. Salvation first, works because
of salvation afterwards.
When the trumpet blows we will know and be ready.
When the trumpet blew in days gone by, covenant and non-covenant
people heard it. Covenant people responded to the call, the non-covenant
people went about their business. As in the days of Noah, as in the days
of Sodom & Gomorrah.
The cry was made, the call sent out.
Those ready came, the rest perished.
Same with the Resurrection.
Those ready are resurrected, the rest perish.
Rapture is nothing more than an argument of timing.
Resurrection is Biblical Doctrine.
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 5/14/2008 12:58:37 PM >
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: IF the rapture is scriptural, - 5/15/2008 6:55:03 PM
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mindmatters
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amen to that!
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