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RE: The Tudors - 3/23/2008 2:34:22 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
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Oh, pardon. I note some other small comments earlier.... 
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RE: The Tudors - 3/23/2008 2:44:18 AM
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Melitac
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Note as well;
As I am an American, I hope that other Americans are the only other ones posting to my ignorance regarding the era.
It would not be fair for me, for example, to comment on a European persons ignorance of any-given, any-placed American historical undertsandings/knowledge.
In our brandishing of our "knowledge", we should take care not to offend the lesser ones just learning about any given topic.
I began this on a friendly note. Let us continue in as helpful a manner.
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RE: The Tudors - 3/23/2008 5:05:49 AM
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cuddles
Posts: 62
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
Really? I didn't know. I am surprised that some of the slang used for cussing today was used then.
For some reason I just couldn't see someone of that social status saying the eff word as though it was a normal part of the vocabulary.  I guess I assumed they were better at expressing themselves than we are today.
It is my understanding from literature that I have read, that the F word was in fact, back then, a proper word for sex. The word was not the insulting and derogatory term that it is now.
I am enjoying the series. However I am not an admirer of Henry. I find he was narcistic, selfish and corrupt. I think he probably had what we would term today a "personality disorder".
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RE: The Tudors - 3/24/2008 12:16:01 AM
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Melitac
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I am enjoying the mannerisms, clothes, the "goblets" they use, the jewels and so much more.
It is a fun episode, me thinks!
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RE: The Tudors - 3/24/2008 12:32:43 AM
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agapetos
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quote:
And agapetos, thanks for the clarifications. I haven't studied English History since way back in high school. And I do mean waaaaaaaaay back! I haven't studied history since I was 14... I have read a lot though because it interests me.
quote:
I am enjoying the series. However I am not an admirer of Henry. I find he was narcistic, selfish and corrupt. I think he probably had what we would term today a "personality disorder". I think he was a product of his times... he was brought up to believe that he was the king and devinly appointed. Great pressue would have been put on him to father a legitimate male heir. Christian faith was undergoing major changes at that time and affected his decision making.
quote:
As I am an American, I hope that other Americans are the only other ones posting to my ignorance regarding the era.
It would not be fair for me, for example, to comment on a European persons ignorance of any-given, any-placed American historical undertsandings/knowledge. I am British. If you are offended that I have pointed out errors in what you've said, I can only apologise. It was not my intention to offend you...
I would have no problem with anyone of any nationality correcting me on British or any other nations historical point that I'd made ~ indeed I'd probably feel upset that someone hadn't corrected me on it.
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RE: The Tudors - 3/27/2008 11:19:03 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teaspoon61
I think I'll check it out this weekend at my local Blockbuster.
There are probably better movies and dvd's you can rent that would provide you with more factual information (and without the need for heavy editing). If Blockbuster don't edit, I wouldn't rent it.
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RE: The Tudors - 3/28/2008 5:22:09 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
But, I was just surprised by the cussing and usage of what I would've considered more modern-day language. I guess I expected more.
I guess you haven't read any of my posts on bad language then! It's a bit of a fave subject of mine.
Such language mostly all originated in the Middle Ages, so way before Tudor times - not as cussing per se, but as the language of the poor (who were uneducated because they were poor, because only those with money got an education).
It was very much them and us - the titled and privileged Lords of the Manor and their families ........... and those of "lesser" birth. "Earthy" language grew up amongst the poor, they basically just made the words up and it got incorporated into the language, and thus became despised by the upper classes because it was the language of the lower classes.
The words became "bad language" or "swearing", not because the words themselves were offensive, but because they represented being poor and uneducated (which in itself was offensive to most "posh" people at the time).
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RE: The Tudors - 3/28/2008 5:29:34 AM
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manda59
Posts: 4841
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Melitac
It would not be fair for me, for example, to comment on a European persons ignorance of any-given, any-placed American historical undertsandings/knowledge.
Wouldn't it?
I don't see why not! If I was mistaken in anything I spoke about here regarding things American (including history), I'd expect to be corrected (and have been on several occasions!)! I would have thought it would stand to reason that an American is exactly the right person to offer correction on things American, and a Brit is exactly the right person to offer correction on things British (especially our history, as we have so much of it!!)
< Message edited by manda59 -- 3/28/2008 5:35:46 AM >
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RE: The Tudors - 3/28/2008 5:35:12 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
I studied Chaucer (who was around some 200 years earlier) years back and it was quite an eye-opener (I don't think I'd have coped with it as a Christian).
I coped with it just fine (I became a Christian in the Upper 6th - just as we were studying The General Prologue and the Nun's Priest's Tale) - I found it fascinating to realise that the words people think are so offensive today were part of the ordinary man's language back then!
I think it might have depended on what Chaucer was studied - we dipped into a couple of the other tales and I remember being embarrassed by the immorality depicted there (though not bothered by the language).
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RE: The Tudors - 3/28/2008 5:39:26 AM
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manda59
Posts: 4841
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
I saw the very first episode and I wasn't really impressed.
It struck me as a tired "Rome" impersonator, only set in England.
Does it get better?
Haven't watched it myself; here is a review from the IMDB website on The Tudors (here) (from an American!):
quote:
Problem is some people will think "this" show is the real history and take it for truth without bothering to look up the real truth....that's very sad and a disservice to the people.
Why embellish when the actual story is dramatic enough? I mean, com'on...embellish some, but stick to the basic facts at least! There are movies that embellished on Henry VIII...like HBO's HenryVIII, but, they stuck to the basic facts and the actors were cast brilliantly.
At this point, for those of us who know our history, it's like watching a train wreck, you just can't help it...as horrible as it is, you can't turn away.
I watch more now to see just how badly they can keep on screwing up. I do know if I can make it through the first season, I won't be watching the second.
Most of us "haters" were excited about the show coming out because that was a very dramatic time in history...to be more accurate we are now "dissapointed" by the show and feel let down. It's not so much as we "hate" the show for it's obvious slaughter of history, it's just a huge disappointment. After all, it is called the The Tudors...one would expect it to be a fairly accurate account of The Tudors...*all* of them.
If they wanted to make a series about a King and his court, then do it...but don't call it by a name that is part of history then rape the real stories of the real people.
That's just my 2 cents...
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RE: The Tudors - 3/28/2008 11:21:54 PM
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agapetos
Posts: 5316
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I'd be inclined to go for Dr David Starkey's 'The Six Wives of Henry VIII' but that's more a docu-drama than pure drama. Starkey is a historian though and it gives facts and recreations without the language.
Or there's the 2003 'Henry VIII' one starring Ray Winstone, Helena Bonham Carter, David Suchet, Emilia Fox, Sean Bean, Charles Dance, Mark Strong, Michael Maloney and Joss Ackland ~ has some great actors in it! It's also a '12' cert so should be language friendly!
There are a few '70's dramas which aren't bad, but I do like the more recent ones for some reason...
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The loose cannon inside the ship is far more dangerous
than the storm that rages outside the ship.
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RE: The Tudors - 3/29/2008 5:49:58 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 2212
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teaspoon61
quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
quote:
ORIGINAL: teaspoon61
I think I'll check it out this weekend at my local Blockbuster.
There are probably better movies and dvd's you can rent that would provide you with more factual information (and without the need for heavy editing). If Blockbuster don't edit, I wouldn't rent it.
Any suggestions??? I've decided against it after reading a few more reviews. As Blockbuster does not edit anything!!
I choose to watch shows that do not contain a lot of profanity and graphic sexuality. These reviews makes me think I'd have to keep hitting the pause or mute button if the kids came in the room!
I don't know how graphic it gets because I saw the "edited" version they showed OnDemand as part of the DVD preview. It was PG-13 territory. Not what I'd feel comfortable allowing kids younger than mid teens to see, and at that point it would depend on the individual.
As far as alternatives, both Elizabeth films, Mary, Queen of Scots and Lady Jane, although they are all likely PG-13 just not as much content. They are also set after Henry VII died, of course.
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RE: The Tudors - 3/31/2008 9:43:54 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 2212
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
(explains graphic content)... how graphic do you want?
Then it's pretty clear the version they put on the preview with OnDemand was not as graphic.
I have Showtime now, as part of the FIOS add on movie package (and all the Showtime, Starz, Encore, and TMC channels, and Sundance - about 40 in all). The kids and I agreed that we were not getting many movies with FIOS, and for what we get, the package was reasonable (about $14/mo, and considering that I'll likely discontinue Netflix, with which we only get one movie at a time anyhow, the increase is minimal). Plus, what hubby really wants to take on the road with him are movies more than series, so being able to record to DVD w/o commercials is really a plus and cheaper than buying more movies on DVD.
So...I'll likely watch a few more episodes of The Tudors with the finger on the fast forward button. If I'm having to fast forward too much, I'll give up on the series.
PS...I do have parental control set on the set-top boxes, for movies higher than PG-13 and shows rated TV-MA. The girls are really good about being open about what they're watching and want to watch.
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 3/31/2008 9:51:30 AM >
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