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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 7/29/2005 3:55:04 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4851
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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Paul approached the problem of motivation of ministers in Philippians;
Phi 1:15-18 "Some indeed even preach Christ because of envy and strife, and some also of good will. Those, indeed, preach Christ out of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds. But these others preach in love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel. What then? Nevertheless, in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached. And I rejoice in this. Yet, also I will rejoice.
The motivations do not concern me nearly as much as I do not believe that the WOF folks, as a whole and maybe not even in part, are preaching CHrist.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 7/31/2005 3:54:05 PM
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columbine
Posts: 3
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From: where the sky is not cloudy all day
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Mattumanu has made a great point. The WOF beliefs are so similar to those in Christian Science. CScientists also believe that their words and thoughts can thwart sickness and despair from their lives. Personally, I believe that most of these bizarre, errant ideas arise because people listen to humans instead of reading their Bible. The Bible is very clear on this issue and every other issue. All it takes is for someone to take time to read it. It wouldn't take very long to discover that your words and thoughts do not control God or your destiny. God has a plan for your life and He directs it. God is the author of your life. I somehow can't help but think of Job - more godly than most of us, yet God allowed trials in his life. Job became stronger because of those trials. Life is not meant to be perfect here on earth. Adam and Eve took care of that for us. But our life with God awaits us in heaven. THat is where we will find perfection and wealth - the wealth of being with our Father for eternity. That is our prize.
Columbine
_____________________________
".....that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints." Jude 1:3
".....and His Hand is still stretched out." Isaiah 9/10
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 7/31/2005 5:56:26 PM
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jumpinjack
Posts: 17
Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: columbine
Mattumanu has made a great point. The WOF beliefs are so similar to those in Christian Science. CScientists also believe that their words and thoughts can thwart sickness and despair from their lives. Personally, I believe that most of these bizarre, errant ideas arise because people listen to humans instead of reading their Bible. The Bible is very clear on this issue and every other issue. All it takes is for someone to take time to read it. It wouldn't take very long to discover that your words and thoughts do not control God or your destiny. God has a plan for your life and He directs it. God is the author of your life. I somehow can't help but think of Job - more godly than most of us, yet God allowed trials in his life. Job became stronger because of those trials. Life is not meant to be perfect here on earth. Adam and Eve took care of that for us. But our life with God awaits us in heaven. THat is where we will find perfection and wealth - the wealth of being with our Father for eternity. That is our prize.
Columbine
my favorite wof preacher is JESUS.
Results: 16
For 'faith'Mt 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little FAITH?
Mt 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great FAITH, no, not in Israel.
Mt 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little FAITH? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
Mt 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their FAITH said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mt 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy FAITH hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Mt 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your FAITH be it unto you.
Mt 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little FAITH, wherefore didst thou doubt?
Mt 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy FAITH: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Mt 16:8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little FAITH, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
Mt 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O FAITHless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
Mt 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have FAITH as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Mt 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have FAITH, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mt 24:45 Who then is a FAITHful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mt 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and FAITHful servant: thou hast been FAITHful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mt 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and FAITHful servant; thou hast been FAITHful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 7/31/2005 6:56:56 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1160
Joined: 7/22/2005
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Hello all. I have heard people support the WOF movement on the grounds that while they might be off in a few areas, they still seem to present the gospel, they sound Biblical, they seem sincere, they present a positive message, they are harmless, they reach millions so they must be good, etc. Many Christians do not know the true teachings of the Word of Faith movement, so my only purpose in being here is to present that information. For the sake of space [and patience on your part!] I have focused on only one issue.
WOF belief : We are gods, equal to Christ.
Benny Hinn: When you say ‘I am saved’ what are you saying? You are saying ‘I am a Christian’. What does that mean? It means ‘I am annointed’. Do you know what annointed means? It means Christ. When you say ‘I am a Christian’ you are saying ‘I am a [unintelligible] in Hebrew… I am a little Messiah walking on earth.
Paul Crouch: It’s a bunch of silly semantics, isn’t it? In a sense we are little gods, then, aren’t we. In that sense. Those that would put that teaching down want us to have a beginning and an end. That’s satan, isn’t it.
Benny Hinn: Those that put us down are a bunch of morons. [Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch, http://www.informativechristian.com/media.htm]
“You don’t have a God in you, you are one.” [Kenneth Copeland, http://www.informativechristian.com/media.htm]
“Don’t tell me you ‘have’ Jesus. You ARE everything He was and everything He is and ever shall be.” [Benny Hinn, http://www.informativechristian.com/media.htm]
“And I want you to know something. Adam in the garden of Eden was God manifested in the flesh.” [Kenneth Copeland, http://www.informativechristian.com/media.htm]
“He [God] said ‘A born again man [Jesus] defeated satan. The firstborn of many brethren defeated him’. He said ‘You are the very image and the very copy of that one’. And I began to see what had gone on and I said you don’t mean, you couldn’t dare mean that I could have done the same thing. He said ‘Oh yes, if you had known and had the knowledge of the word of God that He did you could have done the same thing cause you’re a reborn man, too’. [Kenneth Copeland, http://www.informativechristian.com/media.htm]
The Bible says:
Isa 44:6 “Thus says the Lord – ‘I am the first and I am the last. And there is no God besides Me.’
Isaiah 43:10 “… Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. 11 I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior.”
For those of you who support WOF, do you really agree with WOF teachers that you are a god, a Messiah, and equal to Christ? If not, do you really want to continue to associate yourselves with teachings like this... knowing that lowering Christ and elevating man to be equals is a gross perversion and a lie? Since WOF is actively preaching against the basic not-up-for-debate truth of the Holy Bible [and keep in mind that I have only addressed ONE anti-Biblical teaching among many], then trying to point out what is good about WOF becomes irrelevant.
Thank you for your time on this very important topic.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 7/31/2005 7:05:29 PM
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JohnT
Posts: 16
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elad02
Ok even if it may sound like it, I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here. I just never heard of WoF or 'name it and claim it' theology before I joined this site, so I guess I'm just questioning what faith really is.
Word of Faith (aka Word-Faith) purveyors teach that faith is a force, and words are containers of that force. What you speak, whether positive or negative, brings things to pass in your life. A person's life is a product of his words.
Prosperity Gospel (aka Name-It-and-Claim-It) preachers teach that Jesus was wealthy, and He wants all his followers to be wealthy. They say things like "Have a need? Plant a seed." In other words, "Send me money." More often than not, teachers of this heresy mix it with WOF theology, telling people they just need to keep speaking those riches into existence. After all, we're made in God's image, and if He spoke things into existence, then we too have that power.
The list goes on... Get a copy of the book and audio book Christianity in Crisis. You will be enlightened, believe me.
What faith really is: A channel of living trust between the believer and God.
_____________________________
Serving my King,
John
Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Try the ultimate test...
http://www.livingwaters.com/good/
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 7/31/2005 10:34:57 PM
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jk99
Posts: 32
Joined: 5/24/2005
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I am intrested in two things. The first is I would be very intrested if some of you would comment on this statement
quote:
Here is a thought that might very well blow your socks off. I have traveled the Globe and will tell you something that most have not seen but, would agree with me on this one. WOF'ers listen up. If you live in America have 3 meals a day, a roof over your head, a job etc…you are likely to be in the top 20% of this world, did you read that you are in the top 20% all ready. That means inherently you have already been blessed. Mattumanu has a very good point when he refers to the social group leaning towards this kind of belief, i.e. materialism i.e. Baby boomers possibly…and I don’t care if you are not a baby boomer it still applies. We live in a country that is so blessed and what do we do. We ask for more blessing to validate our faith. Why, well that’s obvious, what we do have perhaps isn’t enough for us is it. I am not saying WOF all think they deserve BMW’s cause they have faith but look at the fundamental principal of that teaching. I live in one of the most wealthy countries am in the top 20% and I talk about gaining prosperity. Are Christians meant to be poor…No…..but we should be contented. Just a thought.
Kind-a like a king complaining he just doesn’t make enough in taxes, while the servants struggle to put bread on the table?
The other is this...I have seen miracles and some amazing prayer I had had answered. But for the most part behind closed doors. This is what I struggle with the most with a lot of WOF movers…It’s so in your face. Some one called me today and asked me if I wanted to go to this particular church because this man was there with this incredible healing power…I asked my self how is he any different than any other person. Why should I run to this person here and this person there when I am told that my (G**) sees all men the same…It doesn’t make sense to me. Any thoughts?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/1/2005 7:34:54 PM
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Elad02
Posts: 42
Joined: 7/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnT
Word of Faith (aka Word-Faith) purveyors teach that faith is a force, and words are containers of that force. What you speak, whether positive or negative, brings things to pass in your life. A person's life is a product of his words.
Prosperity Gospel (aka Name-It-and-Claim-It) preachers teach that Jesus was wealthy, and He wants all his followers to be wealthy. They say things like "Have a need? Plant a seed." In other words, "Send me money." More often than not, teachers of this heresy mix it with WOF theology, telling people they just need to keep speaking those riches into existence. After all, we're made in God's image, and if He spoke things into existence, then we too have that power.
You didn't mention prayer in there. Is it wrong to pray for something reguarding health/wealth and expect it to happen? I've gotten the impression from some that it is.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/2/2005 1:10:56 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1160
Joined: 7/22/2005
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Hi Elad02!
In answer to your question [and depending on the definition of 'wealth'], it can definitely be wrong even to pray for it. Asking God to provide for needs is one thing, but after that we are coveting. We need to really decide which are true needs and which are just desires coming out of the love of money and separate the two:
1 Tim 6:8 And if we have food and covering, with these shall we be content. 9 But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang.
Heb 13:5 Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, "I WILL NEVER DESERT YOU, NOR WILL I EVER FORSAKE YOU,"
Matt 6:24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.
Prayer is not expecting. It's asking:
1 Jn 5:14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
Matt 6:9 “Pray, then, in this way: ‘Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed by Your name. 10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done…’
Jam 2:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.
I don't know if this addresses your question, but I hope so. Thanks for the opportunity to answer.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/2/2005 10:27:41 PM
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SmileyTish
Posts: 186
Joined: 6/23/2005
From: From the Edge of Beyond
Status: offline
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quote:
We live in America where we have freedom of speech. We are entitled to our diffent beliefs and opinions. My thing is this: If you don't agree with their teachings turn the channel or read another book. All we can see is their "polished" image on tv. However, we don't know how much pain and suffering they had to undergo in order to be in the position they are in today. By the way I don't consider myself to be WOF.
They have the right to expouse their beliefs publically, and I have the right to reject and disclaim their beliefs publically. It goes both ways.
_____________________________
I'm going crazy -- wanna come along?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/3/2005 7:37:13 AM
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facedown
Posts: 994
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
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i'm not posting to support WoF_just a word of caution in this time for the opposing based on some of what I've seen here. Sometimes, it's best to fully understand what another is trying to say, before you claim to absolutley know (which often takes more than a quote, or a page full of quotes).
For instance, I could present to you a quote that says something like quote:
God is begining to turn you into the same kind of thing as Himself you might project loudly "FALSE WoF teaching-run, run run!!!"
But, if I told who the author of such a quote is, you might say "oh, my gosh" and go read the whole book for yourself, to fully understand what's being said, because you respect the author.
_____________________________
-| those who say, don't know. those who know, don't say |-
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/3/2005 8:43:43 AM
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lss44
Posts: 96
Joined: 5/3/2005
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quote:
But, if I told who the author of such a quote is, you might say "oh, my gosh" and go read the whole book for yourself, to fully understand what's being said, because you respect the author.
Wide statement on who we all respect....so who is it?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/3/2005 8:58:19 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1932
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
i'm not posting to support WoF_just a word of caution in this time for the opposing based on some of what I've seen here. Sometimes, it's best to fully understand what another is trying to say, before you claim to absolutley know (which often takes more than a quote, or a page full of quotes).
For instance, I could present to you a quote that says something like quote:
God is begining to turn you into the same kind of thing as Himself you might project loudly "FALSE WoF teaching-run, run run!!!"
But, if I told who the author of such a quote is, you might say "oh, my gosh" and go read the whole book for yourself, to fully understand what's being said, because you respect the author.
Well...when I was a college student, my previously Baptist roomate got pulled into a WOF church, and we ended up getting another WOF roomate.
I read their books...the two Kenneths...Copeland and Hagian.
This was before the days of PCs and I took LOTs of notes.
It was pretty clear to ME what was going on, even as a young Christian.
And there are some things that are so outrageous that even only a little context gives you enough to know it doesn't correspond with scripture.
_____________________________
less junk, more Jesus
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/3/2005 4:52:42 PM
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friarX
Posts: 2
Joined: 8/3/2005
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Check it out. In my past expierience WOF teachers are simply laying a snare for sincere Christians. The moment that you start to believe the lies that come forth, you begian your decline because when you faith is tested you may find out that even though you had faith,GOD had different ideas of what was best for your future and spiritual growth you now have doubt of the true power of GOD, and even possibly his love.
_____________________________
Phillippians 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/3/2005 5:53:15 PM
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cowles
Posts: 19
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
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What exactly is a Word of Faith church or preacher? They don't define themselves as a denomination, so where did the label "Word of Faith" come from?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/3/2005 5:59:21 PM
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christiancapitalist
Posts: 50
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnT
quote:
ORIGINAL: Elad02
Ok even if it may sound like it, I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here. I just never heard of WoF or 'name it and claim it' theology before I joined this site, so I guess I'm just questioning what faith really is.
Word of Faith (aka Word-Faith) purveyors teach that faith is a force, and words are containers of that force. What you speak, whether positive or negative, brings things to pass in your life. A person's life is a product of his words.
Prosperity Gospel (aka Name-It-and-Claim-It) preachers teach that Jesus was wealthy, and He wants all his followers to be wealthy. They say things like "Have a need? Plant a seed." In other words, "Send me money." More often than not, teachers of this heresy mix it with WOF theology, telling people they just need to keep speaking those riches into existence. After all, we're made in God's image, and if He spoke things into existence, then we too have that power.
The list goes on... Get a copy of the book and audio book Christianity in Crisis. You will be enlightened, believe me.
What faith really is: A channel of living trust between the believer and God.
again, stop with the generalizations. some would classify me as wof, yet i dont believe what you say i believe. for example, if i go to work every day, and i say, "i stink at my job". that thought becomes a belief. that belief effects my actions. soon, i will stink at my job, because we believe what we say. now, going around saying, "i'm rich", will not make me rich. however, when i get up in the morning, i pray that God will help me to be diciplined and faithful with my finances. i say that i am responsible with money, that i will learn how to make more, and that i'll use money to bring people to Christ. now, what;s wrong with that?
as per the previous comment about healing, one study concluded that 2/3 of people in hospitals were sick due to a mental ilness. they believed so strongly that they were sick, that they became sick. so, what's wrong with confessing, "i'm well." it's sure better than saying i'm sick. what's wrong with saying, "i want to live a long, full life so i can impact the world for jesus." some how, i don't think it's a sin to want to live long so i can bring people to christ.
stop taking the extremist examples for a change. we might actually surprise you.
_____________________________
My God can beat up your god
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/3/2005 6:00:03 PM
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friarX
Posts: 2
Joined: 8/3/2005
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WOF is the name and claim it blab it and grab it types. you have many who even teach that if you cannot control situations through your word faith then you are either caught up in sin or do not have faith. which I challenge with the versus in Corinthians where Paul whom we see his faith tells us that he prayed three times for GOD to take his infirmity yet GOD because he knew what was best replied simply My grace is sufficient for you.
_____________________________
Phillippians 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/3/2005 6:37:50 PM
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cowles
Posts: 19
Joined: 4/18/2005
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So all WOF churches or preachers are bad?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/3/2005 7:34:05 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1932
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: christiancapitalist
as per the previous comment about healing, one study concluded that 2/3 of people in hospitals were sick due to a mental ilness. they believed so strongly that they were sick, that they became sick. so, what's wrong with confessing, "i'm well." it's sure better than saying i'm sick. what's wrong with saying, "i want to live a long, full life so i can impact the world for jesus." some how, i don't think it's a sin to want to live long so i can bring people to christ.
You know, I kinda have this thing about people referring to surveys in a kind of roundabout manner, as if that settles the issue, but never giving specifics...can you provide a reference for us?
_____________________________
less junk, more Jesus
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2005 7:26:29 AM
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facedown
Posts: 994
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
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lss44:
Sorry for the delay: C.S. Lewis
christiancapitalist
There is a difference between hope-and-what the reality is. If your sick, then say "I'm sick-but my desire is to be well, so that I might be a vessell for others to know Christ". I might suggest a study on Paul's confessions. Not just the "good" ones "I'm an overcomer" etc-but also the apparent ones which confessed who Paul is, and what his state is-was.
Remember-you respond to God. contemplate this-
_____________________________
-| those who say, don't know. those who know, don't say |-
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2005 11:24:52 PM
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lss44
Posts: 96
Joined: 5/3/2005
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If a person shares the Truth of the Gospel according to Scripture and teaches a WOF message, is he/she a false teacher?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2005 11:48:27 PM
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SmileyTish
Posts: 186
Joined: 6/23/2005
From: From the Edge of Beyond
Status: offline
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If they are looking at the Bible as their final authority then many WOF's will not be able to reconcile their beliefs to it. They make no logical sense. They are too scared to test the spirits because it could be quenching the Spirit... We are told not to Quench the Holy Sprit, but also reminded that we need to test the spirits so that we are able to know his good and perfect will. They are so into a "jack in the box" God that I get scared for them. They are constantly looking for God to do this and God to do that ... without understanding that God has already paid the ultimate price. If that's not good enough for them...then what is?
_____________________________
I'm going crazy -- wanna come along?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2005 12:10:53 AM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/4/2005
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I watched Creflo Dollar (the irony is just too much) for a long time, but it didn't take long to see that he regularly used scripture out of context to make his points. The above quotes from Benny Hin and K. Copeland about us being "little Gods" should be enough to give any believer pause. As for the quote from C.S. Lewis, if taken in context, he is not saying the same thing as the WOF preachers are teaching.
Were Jesus and the Apostles wealthy? I humbly offer the following:
Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Here we see where our emphasis should be. The money was not the important thing, rather the power of Christ is what delivered the lame man from his problem. It is the same today. What most people see as problems (debt, bad relationships, abuse, emptiness, suicide, etc.) are merely manifestations of the same singular problem - the corruption of our nature by sin. Now I'm not saying that if you are in debt you are lost, but rather that any temporal problem can be traced back to the fall and subsequent corruption of the universe by sin. There is only one cure for the guilt and penalty of sin, and money and success is not it - it is never even mentioned as a sign of it. In fact, God never promises us a life without trouble until we go home to be with Him.
The WOF message is contrary to what scripture teaches us about God, Christ, and ourselves.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2005 7:12:18 AM
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facedown
Posts: 994
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
Status: offline
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quote:
If a person shares the Truth of the Gospel according to Scripture and teaches a WOF message, is he/she a false teacher?
Iss44-as often happens here, when such an issue arrises, there is generally not a lot of talk about the actual messages-teachings or any particulars, other than "i don't like it", "it's not scriptural", and possibly a one-liner quote here, or a 2-liner quote there.
What particular message would you be referring to? It might be fruitful to discuss it a little bit more in detail.
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-| those who say, don't know. those who know, don't say |-
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2005 1:15:48 PM
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lss44
Posts: 96
Joined: 5/3/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
quote:
If a person shares the Truth of the Gospel according to Scripture and teaches a WOF message, is he/she a false teacher?
Iss44-as often happens here, when such an issue arrises, there is generally not a lot of talk about the actual messages-teachings or any particulars, other than "i don't like it", "it's not scriptural", and possibly a one-liner quote here, or a 2-liner quote there.
What particular message would you be referring to? It might be fruitful to discuss it a little bit more in detail.
Facedown, thanks for your reply and questions. I will pursue this later. I have some definite thoughts on the subject.
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2005 1:55:12 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1160
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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Hello Iss44! Good question:
quote:
If a person shares the Truth of the Gospel according to Scripture and teaches a WOF message, is he/she a false teacher?
Yes, because a person cannot do both at the same time. They are either preaching the gospel OR they are preaching the WOF message. The two contradict each other and there is no reconciling the gospel with WOF. The Jesus Christ of WOF is not the same Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible who atoned for sin on the cross.
Bible says: Jesus shed His blood on the cross for our sins and atoned for them completely through that shed blood. He did not die spiritually [the Holy Spirit cannot die!], and He did not become sinful in nature.
WOF says: Jesus did not atone for sin on the cross, but was dragged into hell and tortured by demons. He became sinful in nature and died spiritually, and was 'born again' in hell. It was in hell that He atoned for sin.
Bible says: There is no god but the One God of the Holy Bible.
WOF says: We are little gods, Messiahs, and are equal to Christ [see post #29 for audio links to hear WOF teachers proclaiming this]
The Bible says: Heb 11:1 Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
WOF says: Faith is a creative force and a power we use to speak our desires and our will into existance. We can create what we want through that 'force of faith', and God is obligated to do our will and grant us our desires.
The two messages do not add up to one truth, and that is what is at the heart of the problem with WOF. We cannot have our feet in two doors at the same time.
I know quotes and biblical references have been provided before regarding the above issues so I didn't want to post them yet again and turn this into a huge post, but I will gladly do so upon request.
God bless!
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